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> Expanding Relationships with Russia, Good, bad, meh?
AuthorMusician
post May 27 2017, 10:39 AM
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Trying to give Trump & Crew benefit of doubt, I'm wondering if at the base of the Russia situation there might be reasons for expanding the relationship that are well-intentioned and not attempts to pave the road to hell.

What advantages would the US gain by expanding our relationship with Russia?

How could expanding the relationship benefit US citizens?

I'm ignoring the evidence that's coming out indicating clandestine activities and what we already know about Russia's attempts to influence our elections. Consider this a what-if scenario in this sense: What if President Trump has a handle on a good deal with Russia that isn't politically correct but would be good for our country? What if he had to go behind the gate-watchers' backs to pull it off?

Of course the obvious take is that Trump is only looking out for himself. Try to think back on how our relationship changed after the USSR breakup and how it might be evolving from the Cold War. It might be necessary to take Trump out of the picture in order to reduce emotive ranting. Maybe put Keefer Sutherland into your imaginary White House?
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droop224
post May 28 2017, 03:00 PM
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QUOTE
I'm ignoring the evidence that's coming out indicating clandestine activities and what we already know about Russia's attempts to influence our elections. Consider this a what-if scenario in this sense: What if President Trump has a handle on a good deal with Russia that isn't politically correct but would be good for our country? What if he had to go behind the gate-watchers' backs to pull it off?

Of course the obvious take is that Trump is only looking out for himself. Try to think back on how our relationship changed after the USSR breakup and how it might be evolving from the Cold War. It might be necessary to take Trump out of the picture in order to reduce emotive ranting. Maybe put Keefer Sutherland into your imaginary White House?


Hmmm, such a tough call and one I thought of myself, so I really like the topic. Its like how do you remove the elephant AND 500 pound gorilla in the room when there is a elephant and a 500 pound gorilla in the room. If we remove the nature of President Trump, and believe in the hypothetical that this is not about enriching a few individuals on both sides, then of course it is a great thing.

I'll even go further than that, if we can see how it has net positive effect on the population of the average citizen of our countries and citizens of the world, well its not that bad that some filthy rich billionaires become a little (or a lot) more filthy rich.

I don't see Russia as some boogey man perpetuating evil around the world. I don't even think the were the "bad guys" in the cold war.

I am quite surprised at how quiet many, not all, conservative circles have become on this issue. They went from hating Hillary because she had a email server that inadvertently had classified information that could possibly have been hacked... to being completely silent about a President that has all this clandestine ties, undisclosed meeting by cabinet and family members, and straight up gave Russia official classified information. OK I lied, I'm not that surprised.

To me the writing was on the wall when Rex Tillerson was nominated for Head of State, its pretty clear what this is about.

If two of the greatest powers can no longer be rivals that is a victory in and of itself, I guess. If Trump can curb the cold war mentality that has clouded the judgment of so many Americans (and I guess Russians) for so many years, that is a victory. If we can get past labels of "socialism" and "communism" and the perverted American definitions of these concepts, so we can rebuild a strong worker society in this nation, that would be a victory.


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Mrs. Pigpen
post May 28 2017, 08:54 PM
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Okay, somehow I just lost a long post inadvertently and I'm pretty annoyed. That's almost an hour of my life I'll never get back. I'm not going to dally long this time.

QUOTE(droop224 @ May 28 2017, 10:00 AM) *
I am quite surprised at how quiet many, not all, conservative circles have become on this issue. They went from hating Hillary because she had a email server that inadvertently had classified information that could possibly have been hacked... to being completely silent about a President that has all this clandestine ties, undisclosed meeting by cabinet and family members, and straight up gave Russia official classified information. OK I lied, I'm not that surprised.


I haven't weighed in on Trump and Russian connections for the same reason I wouldn't weigh in on the Seth Rich murder. By contrast to Hillary's years of work with sensitive, security related material on an unsecure server (against the advice of experts...and we now know 18 to 20 of our sources in China have been captured and executed in most cases, between the years 2010 and 2012), there's no real evidence to go by. And the NSA director came out and flatly said that the Washington Post/NY Times account of the conversation which had Trump giving away the store was "false."

What advantages would the US gain by expanding our relationship with Russia?

They'd be helpful in the fight with ISIS. I'd personally like to see us get through our differences with Iran too. They seem to be much more like us, culturally, than Saudi.
But I suspect Russia and the US share some intelligence already. Of course the work would require security and secrecy...without trust it's impossible, and the media leaks are even sullying our credibility with the five eyes countries we are supposed to have the highest level of trust with.

That's all for now. I'll just add:
Per Tillerson and "writing on the wall", the
White House announced last month that it refuses to give Exxon Mobil special waiver to drill in sanctioned Russia
.

This post has been edited by Mrs. Pigpen: May 28 2017, 08:56 PM
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AuthorMusician
post May 29 2017, 09:16 AM
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What advantages would the US gain by expanding our relationship with Russia?

I put nuclear arms control into the number-one slot, and by this I mean cooperation at keeping nukes out of the hands of ISIS, AQ, or whatever terrorist organizations have wet dreams about killing millions instead of a few here and there.

Next comes cultural influences through trade in consumer goods. It's the old Coke and Levis thing about Western culture changing those that are highly restrictive on civil and human rights. However, it's a lot more than soft drinks and clothing. Trade potentially involves any product or service currently available in the US.

I'm also interested in what Russia has to offer beyond oil and natural gas (methane). Do they make any decent guitars out that way? Could they?

But nationally, trade with Russia would help even out our trade deficits. That of course depends on if the oligarchs loosen up their holds on Russian wealth, which is doubtful. Give a guy a fish and he eats for a day; allow his overlords to grab the lake, and the guy starves. No Coke for you!

How could expanding the relationship benefit US citizens?

Besides having less concern about thermonuclear global Armageddon and our billionaires hauling in fewer billions, I'd really like to see what Russian guitars are like. I'd imagine they'd be of good quality for not that much money. And they might have triangular bodies, which I would find to be a hoot and a holler. More flying V's!

Thinking back to when the USSR broke up, Russian boots for women, hats for men, and watches for anyone became popular. I'd expect these and a lot of other products to become available or more affordable or both. And I find the Russian accents to be interesting. Maybe we'd get some new literature too, along with other high-quality arts.

Finally, we'd benefit from Russian technologies. That country beat us into space and developed some of the best weaponry on the planet. Imagine what would happen if that ability were to be turned toward alternative energy, water treatment, materials creation, and so on.

Hell, world peace could break out instead of nuclear war -- but that goes way beyond my more realistic expectations. Still . . . that crappy old wall did fall, and it caused the Cold War lovers to worry about their futures. Could happen again in a rhyming sort of way, and both Putin and Trump are long in the tooth (old). The world's youth looks to the future and expects one to be around more so today than 30-50 years ago due to the Internet and directly associated Information Age.

So I truly hope that Trump proves me wrong in that he really isn't the selfish idiot he seems to be. I'm giving the benefit of doubt, but there isn't a whole lot of doubt.
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