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> Carpe Diem, What are we waiting for?
psyclist
post Oct 25 2005, 10:52 PM
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2,000 soldiers dead in Iraq.

Rove, Cheney, DeLay and others are all on the rocks.

The Fema disaster.

Bush's poll numbers.

And on and on and on...


It's obvious things aren't going well for the Republicans. This is a golden opportunity for the Dems to take back some seats and get into the drivers seat and floor it. So where is everyone? During the Clinton scandal the Republicans raised holy hell in the media. Yes theirs coverage of the above cases but why aren't the Dems hammering this home? I believe most Americans get their politics in sound bites and pay very little real attention to what's going on. They're not going to try and figure out the extent of trouble Rove is in, most will just know he's in trouble and assume it's just the Democrats slinging mud.


Have the Democrats failed in informing the Nation as to the real problems in the Bush Administration from a PR stand point? Have we been too quite?

How should Democrats seize this opportunity?




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Cadman
post Oct 26 2005, 09:16 AM
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Actually when it comes to Rove and other admin officials that might be in trouble I think the democrats in congress are doing the right thing and wait and see what happens. They should be talking about Delay and Frist troubles, but it sort of funny how the democrats are playing stealth also and letting the republicans mess themselves up. I have been following the Plame leak case from the start and the links to Iraq and hoped this all came around to bite the republicans in the butt. As some have said in other places maybe it is a good thing Bush won the election so we can see what a truly uniter and bringing integrity to an adminstration is like laugh.gif tongue.gif to bad many people have gotten injured or died in this whole debacle though. sad.gif It seems some of the republican politicians got to hubris with things and thought they could get away with anything. Now if the Clinton adminstration did anything near what the Bush adminstration has done Clinton would definitely have lost my support. Guess John Dean is right when he says the Bush Adminstration is worse then Nixons. blink.gif
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Paladin Elspeth
post Oct 26 2005, 09:37 AM
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Have the Democrats failed in informing the Nation as to the real problems in the Bush Administration from a PR stand point? Have we been too quite?

Nancy Pelosi hasn't been quiet. And as a result, she incurs the anger of the groups that want to support Republicans. They characterize her as a harridan. She becomes the subject rather than the issues she brings up to inform the public. The Republicans are experts at deflection and turning things around on Democrats.

I think letting the Republicans implode and not taking an active part in assisting them is a good strategy for Democrats. The GOP doesn't appear to need help shooting itself in the foot.

The chickens are coming home to roost for Frist, Delay, and whoever ends up being indicted in the Plame case. Karl Rove is indiscriminate with who he hurts when campaigning for his boss Dubya; I am surprised that Senator McCain makes nice after the stunt Rove & Company pulled on him in South Carolina during the Republican caucus. But I would like to see what goes around, come around for Mr. Rove.

How should Democrats seize this opportunity?

I'd say by not appearing "holier than thou" (Remember the Republicans when Bill Clinton was being impeached? How self-congratulatory they were!), and by making sure they are doing their job, especially in Congress. They need to publicize the good things they are doing.

We need to change what the nation is talking about. The news reports are enough to publicize what is happening with the party in power. We need to continue to bring up the issues of education, health care, and the environment. These are increasingly becoming issues of concern for all Americans. Who hasn't thought about the environment in the context of all these powerful hurricanes and the damage they have caused? It is related to global warming.

What about the health care situation? That's affecting all but the wealthiest and healthiest Americans.

Our educational system needs more than an unfunded mandate (No Child Left Behind--ha!); if we want to compete with nations like Japan we need some serious overhauling of the system, and I don't mean addressing the Pledge of Allegiance or Intelligent Design.

What about the trade deficit and the outsourcing of American jobs. An increasing number of Americans is being affected by this. Will $10 per hour be the new income standard regardless of the level of education we achieve? Look at Delphi--they're talking about $10 per hour for skilled as well as unskilled hourly employees.

And corporate welfare--why is the government subsidizing the oil companies?

There are a lot of issues that Democrats can successfully address instead of dwelling on the misdeeds of notable Republicans. The best way we can show the country that we are concerned with the needs of everyday people is by addressing them every chance we get.
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AuthorMusician
post Oct 26 2005, 10:45 AM
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Have the Democrats failed in informing the Nation as to the real problems in the Bush Administration from a PR stand point? Have we been too quite?

No, just not as loud as the Republicans have been when it comes to Democrat bashing. When Clinton lied to a grand jury, that was a terrible, horrible, awful, dirty dang deed. Now perjury is just a technicality to the Republicans.

If voters don't get it, then we will have the government we deserve and the country that we deserve. PE mentioned the downward pressure on wages. Consider this as we get a new Fed chairman who is okay with inflation. Lower wages plus price inflation = Mexico. Will US citizens be the new illegal aliens in Mexico? Maybe Canada?

So what message should the Democrats be pushing? That Republicans only care about the rich and only respond to the real needs of the people when backed against a wall? Shoot, that's obvious now. When you have a royal flush, you don't have to bluff.

What else, that we were conned into Iraq? Obvious too. That the administration is shot full of incompetency and cronyism? Yep, clear as a bell. That the school voucher crowds simply want to destroy public education so that big profits can be made with charter schools? Got a history of that now. It's undeniable. How about big money backing Republican politicians and hiding behind shady organizations that blatantly flaunt election funding laws? In the works, coming out.

All Democrats need to do is say that we have big problems that need to be worked. Denial of them does not work. Creating more problems does not work. Helping out your buddies does not work. And what really does not work is Republican leadership.
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psyclist
post Oct 26 2005, 12:19 PM
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QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Oct 26 2005, 05:37 AM)
 
I think letting the Republicans implode and not taking an active part in assisting them is a good strategy for Democrats. The GOP doesn't appear to need help shooting itself in the foot. 
*
 


This does seem to be what we're doing and I can understand the strategy and I think AuthorMusician points and examples are valid as well.

However, and maybe this is just because I'm "younger," (Is 23 young?) but I don't think that it's hitting home with a lot of people my age. Maybe they/we just don't get it or don't care enough to actually take it upon ourselves to find out what is going on. I find myself constantly having to summarize every news headline to the young republican who just can't let go of support for Bush. It's obvious they're not paying attention or they're just brainwashed to vote red. My concern is that among people my age when you try and point out the great things about the dems, inevitably what comes up is the Clinton scandal. This alone is enough to push these otherwise intelligent people to vote Republican. And this isn't just young people that I don't think are getting it. What about your average politically apathetic American who watches CNN a few times before he votes?

I think what Bush and the Republicans have done the past few years is infinitely worse but for some reason I just don't think the message is getting through because we're just "letting them implode." Again, I don't necessarily disagree with this strategy, I just don't know if it's going to drive home the message to everyone.
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Cadman
post Oct 26 2005, 12:36 PM
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While I was still young when Watergate happened every news source talking right now comparing Watergate and Plamegate is saying the exact samething happened with Watergate. For the most part the public really didn't know what was happening except for a few articles here and there from the Washington Post, but once the walls started coming down and revealing the mess behind them everyone became interested.

One thing I read on another site surprised me completely, with all the stuff that is happening we now have 3 different parts of our leaders in government under investigation or indicted. The house Tom Delay - indicted and under investigation with Abramhoff scandel, Bill Frist - possible insider trading, and the White House. This is definitely worse then Watergate with just what is happening in the White House.
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AuthorMusician
post Oct 26 2005, 03:44 PM
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QUOTE
It's obvious they're not paying attention or they're just brainwashed to vote red.


psyclist,

Sticking fingers in ears and yelling, "LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA?" I don't know how to get through to people who are by nature prejudiced against Democrats or prejudiced towards Republicans. It's probably impossible until they get personally dinked by Republican policies, and even that doesn't change anything for the extremely hard-headed.

Locally, I see the Republicans trying to take control of a school board in central Colorado Springs. The Democrats are keeping to themselves on this. Running against the three Republicans are three other people: one Democrat, one unaffiliated, and one maverick Republican who did not get a red endorsement. It has become a war against ideology, where the Republican-blessed candidates want to dismantle public education in favor of charter and religious schools. Will the other side win? It's hard to imagine them not getting more votes, as most people living in that district can't afford private education for their kids, vouchers or not.

Another local issue coming to a head this November is the state economy. The anti-tax people want to keep the status quo. The other side wants to release funds earmarked for tax refunds back to the state. It's also hard for me to imagine a no vote against pumping more money into the state budget winning.

I see these two battles as important indicators on how the pendulum is swinging. I think it's swinging to the left, or at least to the middle.

This post has been edited by AuthorMusician: Oct 26 2005, 03:46 PM
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Paladin Elspeth
post Oct 27 2005, 06:54 AM
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QUOTE(psyclist)
My concern is that among people my age when you try and point out the great things about the dems, inevitably what comes up is the Clinton scandal. This alone is enough to push these otherwise intelligent people to vote Republican. And this isn't just young people that I don't think are getting it. What about your average politically apathetic American who watches CNN a few times before he votes?
Your concern is real, especially when the more serious issues are neglected in favor of window dressing for special interest groups.

What happens when Republicans can't address the real problems with our educational system? Focus on the need for prayer and the Pledge of Allegiance in school! Those will help those kids' grades, right? And throw in a vastly underfunded mandate, "No Child Left Behind," to show good (if not effective) intentions.

Can't do anything about the influx of illegals (including non-Mexican people) across our porous southern border? Don't focus on it--focus on making flag desecration illegal! Don't make too much noise about it--security or not, we've got to have our gardeners and pool men!

Not enough jobs in this country? Focus on tax relief--for those with incomes above a certain level. After all, they're your GOP base; the lower-class jobs are going to China, India and Mexico anyway. The unemployed don't vote, do they? They sure can't contribute money, so forget about them!

Richard M. Nixon's conduct a stain on the GOP? Focus on Bill Clinton and his playing with Monica Lewinski in the Oval Office. Ix-Nay on the ixon-Nay talk.

It seems to always be diversionary tactics practiced by Republicans. They focus on God and the flag while these other, more relevant issues somehow fall by the wayside. Personally, I'm astonished at how effective it is. In doing so, they want the American public to believe that the moral high ground is theirs (as opposed to the Democrats') and we come off looking like a chaotic (not diverse) bunch of people you wouldn't want to invite to dinner. Obviously, it takes a lot of well-crafted propaganda to reinforce this kind of thinking, but that's what the patrons with the deep pockets are for.

All I can suggest, psyclist, is to quietly provide the truth about the Republicans and try to dispel some well-indoctrinated myths about the Democratic party with your friends and co-workers. That will do more than trying to rub Republican noses in the "accidents" made by the GOP politicians. People who are always on the defensive don't listen well.

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Oct 27 2005, 07:18 AM
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Eeyore
post Oct 27 2005, 11:38 AM
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I think the solution os for Democrats to daily model and offer programs of better governance. Without being shrill (here in this sense I echo PE's use of the word quietly) criticism needs to be offered of the problems of government along with solutions. And if you are a congressperson, the solution should be presented in the form of a piece of legislation ready to be presented (lol) but offered to the public as a better solution or service.

I just heard a piece on NPR about Conservative Republicans trying to get a hold of the deficit created by the war and Katrina and making massive cuts to student loans, foster care programs, and other social services.

Democrats need to point out that this IS the method of the NEo-Cons. Spend the government recklessly into a crisis and try to resolve that crisis by cutting social programs. Where I think the the Republicans are missing their target (in this case the American public) is that Katrina revealed that we are not adequately watching out for our poorest Americans and that slashing public services is a Scroogian approach to our society that is not in the best interests of Americans.

I was happy to hear this morning that the brutally insensitive (in the light of the high dollar contracts being awarded primarily to non-Gulf Coast companies) waiving of the prevailing wage in the areas. But the Democratic opposition to this should have be level-headed but much more vocal and constant.

Just because the Dems are locked out of the legislation process right now does not mean that they shouldn't be compiling and promoting legislation that will put the USA in a different and better direction. Without this I don't know why I continue to vote Democratic. Well I guess I do, to vote REpublican in this climate is obscene and to vote third party (which I often used to like to do) does nothing to erode the present Republican majority. I sure would like a better reason to vote Democratic.
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lesforpeace1984
post Dec 13 2005, 04:00 AM
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The democrats problem is that they have their hands tied because the republicans have compleat control of both law making branches of government, and they need the moderate republicans support to get anything done or to stop some of the crazy *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. *** they want to pull off.
If you don't like how quite you elected officials are being get up from your computer and get involved in grass-roots action in you community. You politicians may have their hands tied but you don't.
I also have a very strong suspicion that the last election was rigged, and the next one will be to - if this is the case they have no reason to give half a damn about public opinion... I have a lot of crazy conspiracy theories, maybe I watch to much X-files.
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bgoins12
post Dec 18 2005, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE(lesforpeace1984 @ Dec 13 2005, 12:00 AM)
The democrats problem is that they have their hands tied because the republicans have compleat control of both law making branches of government, and they need the moderate republicans support to get anything done or to stop some of the crazy *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. *** they want to pull off. 
If you don't like how quite you elected officials are being get up from your computer and get involved in grass-roots action in you community.  You politicians may have their hands tied but you don't.
I also have a very strong suspicion that the last election was rigged, and the next one will be to - if this is the case they have no reason to give half a damn about public opinion...  I have a lot of crazy conspiracy theories, maybe I watch to much X-files.
*



I agree with you les, the republicans do have complete control. I cannot wait until I turn 18 so I can vote. Since what has happened over the past few years, our city went from 50/50 Dem/Rep to almost 90% Democratic and 10% Republican. Our recent general elections in our city proved that.
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nebraska29
post Dec 20 2005, 03:42 AM
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QUOTE
How should Democrats seize this opportunity?


It's one thing to criticize, quite another to lead. All too often, we are perceived of as being the "negative" party that criticizes, but which lacks a plan of our own. It would be something else if Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi could come up with their own contract with America that would center on urban renewal and economic revitalization in rural areas. Without a road map of ideas, we are bound by the narrow interpretations of issues of whoever the presidential nominee happens to be. Something along the lines of democracy bonds are what I'm talking about, but it needs to be expanded to specific issues on reform in regards to the electoral process and lobbying. Without these steps, we will continue to flounder.
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nighttimer
post Dec 21 2005, 03:08 AM
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QUOTE(psyclist @ Oct 25 2005, 05:52 PM)

Have the Democrats failed in informing the Nation as to the real problems in the Bush Administration from a PR stand point?  Have we been too quite?

How should Democrats seize this opportunity?



huh.gif 1. This would be funny if it wasn't so tragic. The Democrats are laboring under the delusion that if George Bush and the GOP screw up enough disgusted voters will turn to them instead. Not. bloody. likely. What's more likely is that half of those disgusted voters will stay home and sit on their hands and the other half will choose Republicans who have concrete stands and positions over belly-crawling Democrats trying to steal GOP talking points.

Just saying the Republicans suck is not a strategy. Hoping that Bush does something so incredibly stupid and dangerous even his supporters will recoil in horror is not a strategy. Hillary Clinton trying to extreme makeover herself into a blonde, bland, middle-of-the-road "centrist" is not a strategy. Imitating ideas discarded by Republicans is not a strategy.

The Democrats if they STOOD for something---anything, should be slobbering over themselves to take on the Republicans in 2006. But they'll blow it.
Again. Then all the whining and sniveling will start all over again. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

2. They won't. That would require guts, brains, money, a ideology and a plan to put it all together. All are in short supply in the Democratic Party circa 2005.

dry.gif
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