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> The Shooting of Trayvon Martin, self-defense or murder?
nighttimer
post Mar 18 2012, 09:05 AM
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It's been over 17 days since 17-year-old Trayvon Martin died. George Zimmerman, the blockwatch member who shot him has not been arrested or charged.
QUOTE
Trayvon, a high-school junior from Miami who was visiting family in a gated community here, was shot to death Feb. 26 when he encountered George Michael Zimmerman, captain of the neighborhood-crime-watch group.

Trayvon was returning from the convenience store and was confronted by Zimmerman, who had already called the cops to report a "suspicious person" in the neighborhood.

<snip>

Prosecutors, including State Attorney Norm Wolfinger, must now decide whether to charge 28-year-old Zimmerman with a crime. They will likely take several weeks to review the evidence and may do more investigating, a spokeswoman said.

But whatever decision they reach, it won't make everyone happy.

<snip>

At a news conference Monday that was intended to ease racial tensions, police Chief Bill Lee Jr. tried to explain that his detectives simply could not find enough evidence to justify an arrest.

And his office had not — and would not — release a recording of Zimmerman's phone call to police the night of the shooting because it was part of an ongoing investigation, a common practice by law-enforcement agencies.
<snip>


Trayvon's parents set up a petition on Change.org asking the district attorney to indict Zimmerman. The petition has garnered over 200,000 signatures. The FBI has offered their assistance to the investigation.

Protests and rallies are planned next week in Sanford with the Rev. Al Sharpton announcing he will lead one of the marches.


Questions for debate.

1. Should George Zimmerman be prosecuted in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin?

2. Zimmerman is 28 years old, weighs 250 pounds and was armed. Martin was 17, weighed 140 pounds and had a can of ice tea and a bag of Skittles candy. Do you believe Zimmerman's explanation he shot Martin in self-defense to be reasonable and plausible?

3. Do online petitions, protests, outside groups becoming involved and national media scrutiny make it more likely the truth comes out or are they sideshows that only make the situation worse?


This post has been edited by Jaime: Mar 18 2012, 11:03 PM
Reason for edit: Edited to conform cited material to forum rules
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moif
post Mar 23 2012, 08:27 AM
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QUOTE(entspeak @ Mar 23 2012, 04:51 AM) *
QUOTE(moif @ Mar 22 2012, 10:12 PM) *
Listening to the audio recording. There is an s sound at the beginning of the phrase, and the difference in tone makes me think he's whispering.

It sounds to me like Zimmerman says 'He's f***ing close', to which the dispatcher then asks, "Are you following him?"

I don't hear the "L" and, again, I hear an OO sound not an OH sound. The question may have been asked because of the background noise... After he says he's running, you hear him put the key in the ignition and a "bing-bong, bing-bong" sound inside the vehicle and then (very low) what sounds like acceleration. (Again, I'm listening with headphones.)

In listening to the CNN audio I hear "these f---ing c-ons" and when they isolate the last word, I definitely hear "c-ons."

edited to take nighttimer's post into acccount.


In this version it still sounds to me like he's saying 'close', or 'clothes', which doesn't make much sense to me. I believe I can hear an L sound.
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nighttimer
post Mar 23 2012, 09:20 AM
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At this point I don't think anyone should need a primer, but just in case anyone does here are 10 Things You Need To Know About the Trayvon Martin Case.

You can also see what the fine folks at Stormwatch have to say about this all this. If you can do so without throwing up. sour.gif
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JohnfrmCleveland
post Mar 23 2012, 02:46 PM
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When I was learning about self-defense in school (which seems like an eternity of bad politics ago), the general rule was that you had to try to flee the problem, until you were genuinely cornered or you got to your home's threshold (doorway). That doorway was the bright line - if you shot someone on your porch, it wasn't self-defense. Surely everyone has heard the stories about cops moving the body a few feet inside so the self-defense rule could be invoked. Understandably, they normally believed the resident over the stranger, and why go out of your way to arrest a guy who might not have known the rule perfectly, but otherwise wasn't to blame?

Zimmerman's actions in this case wouldn't have come close to qualifying. Getting out of the car (with a gun), initiating contact - common sense tells us that Zimmerman was the aggressor here. These cops may or may not be the gomers that Nighttimer suspects, but the fact that the cops claim they couldn't arrest Zimmerman tells you how ill-conceived this law is. The bright line is gone, replaced by a judgment call about whether or not the shooter "fairly percieved an imminent deadly threat." There are plenty of crimes where an actor's state of mind is an element of a crime, but not many where your state of mind can get you off completely. For instance, maybe you didn't premeditate that murder, but you sure acted with reckless disregard or purpose, so you will still go to jail for 2nd degree murder or manslaughter. Unless, I suppose, you felt threatened by the guy you shot.

Hopefully we'll start to see some of these stupid NRA-backed laws rolled back soon. We've got a fairly recent concealed carry law in Ohio that made no sense to anybody that didn't already own a handgun, but it passed, too. I'm amazed at how the landscape has changed over the past 20 years or so. It's not like law and order is breaking down or anything - why the paranoia? I'm far more concerned that I'll run into a Zimmerman-type concealed gun carrier in my supermarket than I am of running into an armed criminal. That's why I live in a nice neighborhood, so I don't have to worry about guns.

********************************

Listened to the audio from the Anderson Cooper show. He clearly said "fu__ing c__ns." Plus, it's in context. I don't see how anybody can argue otherwise with a straight face.
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Bikerdad
post Mar 23 2012, 05:13 PM
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Everything you need to know about the reaction to the Trayvon Martin shooting.
  • You can be absolutely confident that the Holder Justice Department will do an objective and thorough investigation with the commitment to color blind justice that they demonstrated in the New Black Panther voter intimidation case..
  • You can be 100% confident that the activists from outside of Florida who are getting involved really, really care about murderous hate crimes.
  • It was a completely safe, totally quiet neighborhood, with absolutely no need for any delusional neighborhood watch.
  • It will take the full resources of the Federal government to get any information beyond "no comment" out of the crooked cops of Sanford, Florida, who are following the path of transparency blazed by the ATF.
  • If a jury of his peers refuses to convict Zimmerman, you can be assured that the activists will accept the decision with equanamity.
  • This instance demonstrates, once and for all, that there is absolutely no need for citizens to have firearms to defend themselves, and that all claims of defensive gun use are lies made up by trigger happy, irrational gun nuts.
The prophecy I made in my first response is already coming true...
QUOTE
3. Do online petitions, protests, outside groups becoming involved and national media scrutiny make it more likely the truth comes out or are they sideshows that only make the situation worse? Sideshows. It's going to result in the facts of the case being overwhelmed by the racial rhetoric. The case will become a litmus test for racial views, not a test of the facts of the case. Justice for Trayvon and Zimmerman will be lost in the storm.

The racebaiters on the Left have poisoned the well, shouting for Zimmerman's head. Any jury sitting on this case is going to be under tremendous pressure to decide based on the racebaiters' rhetoric, without regard to the facts of the case. Whether caving to the rhetoric, or backlashing against it, the facts of the case become secondary.

God help Florida if the Latino community down there decides that Zimmerman, who is as much Latino as Obama is black, decides that Zimmerman is one of their own and the shoot was justified.... Why, Florida may come to look like Chicago last weekend.... a mere 10 murders, including a 6 year old girl, and 46 shootings. Don't bother the racebaiters with those, there's no traction or TV facetime to be had.

Trayvon Martin may have been gunned down in cold blood by a man who decided he was going to bag a coon, or he may have been killed in a tragic escalation between two people with insufficient situational knowledge and an abundance of adrenaline, or he may have been shot in self-defense by a man defending himself from a young black boy who'd had enough of being hassled by dumb, fat crackers in need of an butt-whuppin.

We don't know.
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JohnfrmCleveland
post Mar 23 2012, 05:54 PM
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QUOTE(Bikerdad @ Mar 23 2012, 01:13 PM) *
Trayvon Martin may have been gunned down in cold blood by a man who decided he was going to bag a coon, or he may have been killed in a tragic escalation between two people with insufficient situational knowledge and an abundance of adrenaline, or he may have been shot in self-defense by a man defending himself from a young black boy who'd had enough of being hassled by dumb, fat crackers in need of an butt-whuppin.

We don't know.


So, by all means, let's have an investigation. (Which would not have happened without the public outcry.)
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nighttimer
post Mar 23 2012, 07:06 PM
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QUOTE(Bikerdad @ Mar 23 2012, 01:13 PM) *
The racebaiters on the Left have poisoned the well, shouting for Zimmerman's head. Any jury sitting on this case is going to be under tremendous pressure to decide based on the racebaiters' rhetoric, without regard to the facts of the case. Whether caving to the rhetoric, or backlashing against it, the facts of the case become secondary.


That's crap.

By your standard, I'm one of those "racebaiters" on the Left. You are only half-right. My politics are on the Left, but I haven't race-baited any one in any way. I've written about the killing of Trayvon Martin. I've signed the Change.org petition. I created this thread and taken the position George Zimmerman should be arrested for shooting Trayvon Martin.

No apologies on my part if any of that alarms you.

What I haven't done is pick a brick, grab a torch and start burning down the joint. I haven't picked up a gun and started rioting. The ONLY thing I and others like me have done is demand justice be done in a case of obvious injustice. Citizens have the right to go to their elected and governmental officials and request redress for their grievances. The demonstrations like the Million Hoodie March in Manhattan and the rally in Sanford that drew over 30,000 people (some that may not have been "on the Left") were PEACEFUL. Nobody called for Zimmerman's head. What people wanted was justice and that means justice for Trayvon as well as George Zimmerman.

If that is "race-baiting" I doubt you have a clue what race baiting really is, Bikerdad. Color me not so surprised. rolleyes.gif

But speaking of "race-baiting..."

QUOTE(Bikerdad)
God help Florida if the Latino community down there decides that Zimmerman, who is as much Latino as Obama is black, decides that Zimmerman is one of their own and the shoot was justified.... Why, Florida may come to look like Chicago last weekend.... a mere 10 murders, including a 6 year old girl, and 46 shootings. Don't bother the racebaiters with those, there's no traction or TV facetime to be had.


Don't you just love it when someone who doesn't give a damn about inner city violence tries lamely to draw a false equivalency between an act of violence in one place unrelated to another act of violence somewhere else?

If you are so concerned about the violence in Chicago, Bikerdad, why haven't you started a thread about it? By all means, do so and share your sure-to-be- profound thoughts with the world.

Because until you do there remains a strong possibility you don't really give a damn about the violence in Chicago any more than you do about the Trayvon Martin shooting in Florida. What you really care about is changing the subject while working in a cheap shot at President Obama racial origins by sneering that George Zimmerman isn't really Latino and Obama isn't really Black.

Let me clue you into something you apparently are confused about, Bikerdad. Racial identity is a fluid thing. It is not fixed or limited to your interpretation of who is Black and who is not. If Obama identifies himself as a Black man, conducts himself as a Black man and lives as a Black man--he IS a Black man.

And for the record, George Zimmerman identifies himself as Hispanic, not Latino. The two are not interchangeable, so please ry to catch up if you can't keep up.

You are engaging in one of the favorite games of the racebaiting Right: Instead of talking about the subject at hand that goes places you clearly are uncomfortable going, change the subject into, "Well, if you're outraged by that, why aren't you also outraged by this." Have you ever stopped to consider it is possible to be outraged by both, yet not confuse an apple with an orange?

Cast the specter of possible unrest and racial animus between Blacks and Latinos even though there's been nothing to indicate there's any likelihood of future violence. The racebaiting Right loves to scare White people with the bogeyman that people of color are about to set it off and start rioting in the streets.

QUOTE(Bikerdad)
Trayvon Martin may have been gunned down in cold blood by a man who decided he was going to bag a coon, or he may have been killed in a tragic escalation between two people with insufficient situational knowledge and an abundance of adrenaline, or he may have been shot in self-defense by a man defending himself from a young black boy who'd had enough of being hassled by dumb, fat crackers in need of an butt-whuppin.

We don't know.


Ignoring the specious suggestion if was Trayvon who was the aggressor whose actions brought about his own demise, you are merely echoing the demands of those raising their voices in outrage that justice must be done and George Zimmerman should be arrested, prosecuted and have his day in court so the facts CAN come out. Nobody has grabbed a rope and gone looking for Zimmerman and the highest tree to string him up from. The protests have been loud, but they have remained peaceful. People are full of anger and grief, but they have not allowed their emotions to run wild. They are giving the legal system a chance to do its job and provide equal, fair and colorblind justice.

What's so scary about that? ermm.gif

You are right that we don't know. More reason to let Zimmerman have his day in a court of law. Maybe then we will know.
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droop224
post Mar 23 2012, 07:14 PM
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QUOTE(bikerdad)
Trayvon Martin may have been gunned down in cold blood by a man who decided he
was going to bag a coon, or he may have been killed in a tragic escalation
between two people with insufficient situational knowledge and an abundance of
adrenaline, or he may have been shot in self-defense by a man defending himself
from a young black boy who'd had enough of being hassled by dumb, fat crackers
in need of an butt-whuppin.


Alright, and in which of the three scenarios do you think Zimmerman shouldn't be arrested and tried?


That's the part I don't get. Let's presume that the last example is the way it happened. Trayvon was tired of being harrassed by Zimmerman, he goes to give him a butt-whuppin, does the shooting meet the standard of self defense?


Can you kill someone to stop them from punching you in the face?
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pheeler
post Mar 23 2012, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE(droop224 @ Mar 23 2012, 11:14 AM) *
Can you kill someone to stop them from punching you in the face?

If anything, he didn't do it to stop him, he did to retaliate. But we don't know whether Martin punched him in the first place.
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Maybe Maybe Not
post Mar 23 2012, 07:39 PM
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QUOTE(JohnfrmCleveland @ Mar 23 2012, 09:46 AM) *
Listened to the audio from the Anderson Cooper show. He clearly said "fu__ing c__ns." Plus, it's in context. I don't see how anybody can argue otherwise with a straight face.


Are you absolutely sure it wasn't "stuck in dunes"?
"Shucking prunes"?
"Plucking Cloones" ( a clear reference to George Clooney's well-known nickname)

Absolutely?
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BoF
post Mar 23 2012, 09:18 PM
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Several days ago, I wrote this:

QUOTE(BoF @ Mar 19 2012, 04:49 PM) *
Regardless of how mildly Al Sharpton plays it, he will be criticized by someone. The only question is what fool that will be.

I assumed, my bad, that the candidate would be a talk radio host. As it turns out, it was one of our own.

QUOTE(Bikerdad @ Mar 23 2012, 12:13 PM) *
[*]You can be 100% confident that the activists from outside of Florida who are getting involved really, really care about ...l murderous hate crimes.

I hate to have to give a middle school civics lesson to a grown man, but the “activists from outside Florida,” including Al Sharpton, have been peaceful. That is their right under the 1st Amendment.

QUOTE(1st Amendment)
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

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BaphometsAdvocat...
post Mar 23 2012, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE(BoF @ Mar 23 2012, 04:18 PM) *
QUOTE(Bikerdad @ Mar 23 2012, 12:13 PM) *
[*]You can be 100% confident that the activists from outside of Florida who are getting involved really, really care about ...l murderous hate crimes.

I hate to have to give a middle school civics lesson to a grown man, but the “activists from outside Florida,” including Al Sharpton, have been peaceful. That is their right under the 1st Amendment.

Clearly you missed the link to the white teen who was set on fire by two black teens in KC - thus the entire point of what Bikerdad posted.

This post has been edited by BaphometsAdvocate: Mar 23 2012, 09:27 PM
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BoF
post Mar 23 2012, 09:37 PM
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QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Mar 23 2012, 04:26 PM) *
Clearly you missed the link to the white teen who was set on fire by two black teens in KC - thus the entire point of what Bikerdad posted.

Does an isolated incident mean the protests have not been generally peaceful?

Then again, we are talking about two teenaged Black males. They should be tried just as George Zimmerman should be tried.

I get the impression that you are trying hard to find, as was BD, a way to deflect discussion away from NT's thread.

Perhaps you or BD should start a thread on that issue.

Edited to add:

The Kansas City incident is a false-equivalency for a number of reasons.

First, the perpetrator in the Trayvon Martin case is an adult. The alleged perpetrators in the Kansas City case are juviniles.

Second, Martin was killed, the thirteen year old Kansas City kid is alive.

Third, although it does not seem anyone has been arrested in Kansas City, there doesn’t seem to be a several weeks long police cover-up like in the Sanford, Florida case.


This post has been edited by BoF: Mar 23 2012, 10:30 PM
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CruisingRam
post Mar 23 2012, 10:31 PM
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QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Mar 23 2012, 01:26 PM) *
QUOTE(BoF @ Mar 23 2012, 04:18 PM) *
QUOTE(Bikerdad @ Mar 23 2012, 12:13 PM) *
[*]You can be 100% confident that the activists from outside of Florida who are getting involved really, really care about ...l murderous hate crimes.

I hate to have to give a middle school civics lesson to a grown man, but the “activists from outside Florida,” including Al Sharpton, have been peaceful. That is their right under the 1st Amendment.

Clearly you missed the link to the white teen who was set on fire by two black teens in KC - thus the entire point of what Bikerdad posted.


Where the teens not arrested?
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BoF
post Mar 23 2012, 10:47 PM
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QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Mar 23 2012, 05:31 PM) *
Where the teens not arrested?

There may have been an arrest, but this local news report doesn't mention it.

http://worldiswatchin.com/what-i-miss/brea...-white-boy-smh/

Nor does this local news report mention an arrest.

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/05/34711...burning-of.html

This post has been edited by BoF: Mar 24 2012, 02:26 AM
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moif
post Mar 24 2012, 01:21 AM
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QUOTE(droop224 @ Mar 23 2012, 08:14 PM) *
Alright, and in which of the three scenarios do you think Zimmerman shouldn't be arrested and tried?


That's the part I don't get. Let's presume that the last example is the way it happened. Trayvon was tired of being harrassed by Zimmerman, he goes to give him a butt-whuppin, does the shooting meet the standard of self defense?


Can you kill someone to stop them from punching you in the face?
Straight to the point. No. But you can act on the false assumption of imminent danger and make a fatal mistake. As far as I can see, this is the only way Zimmerman can claim self defence and given the amount of audio evidence (I'm thinking of Martin's interupted call to his girl friend, and also the 911 call where some one can be heard crying for help immediately prior to the gun shot) it shouldn't be too difficult to establish who felt themselves to be in danger. If its Zimmerman calling for help then his argument seems plausible, but if its Martin then his argument seems implausible.


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nighttimer
post Mar 24 2012, 03:21 AM
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In one corner we have the President and two Republican candidates commenting...
QUOTE
President Obama spoke in highly personal terms on Friday about how the shooting in Florida of a 17-year-old black youth named Trayvon Martin had affected him, saying that “if I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon.”

The president often appears perturbed when he is asked off-topic questions at ceremonial events, but on Friday, he seemed eager to address the case, which has quickly developed into a cause célčbre around the country. He cautioned that his comments would be limited because the Justice Department was investigating. But he talked at length about his personal feelings about the case.

“I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this,” Mr. Obama said. “All of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how does something like this happen.”

The brief remarks were nonetheless a rare example of Mr. Obama speaking to the nation as an African-American parent and the father of two children.

“Obviously, this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through,” Mr. Obama said, his face grim. “When I think about this boy, I think about my own kids.”

The most powerful line came at the end of his brief remarks, as he said that his “main message” was directed at the parents of Mr. Martin, who have expressed their deep grief during interviews on television over the last several days.

“You know, if I had a son, he’d look like Trayvon,” Mr. Obama said, pausing for a moment. “I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves, and we are going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened.”

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/03...dit_cn_20120323


..and in the other we have Geraldo Rivera, the Fox News contributor proving yet again it is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.
QUOTE
“I believe that George Zimmerman, the overzealous neighborhood watch captain, should be investigated to the fullest extent of the law, and if he is criminally liable he should be prosecuted. But I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies,” Rivera said.

“I think the hoodie is as much responsible for Trayvon Martin’s death as George Zimmerman was.”

He added: "You have to recognize that this whole stylizing yourself as a gangsta, you’re going to be a gangsta-wannabe, well people are going to perceive you as a menace."

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/...im-to-zip-it-up


Remember: guns don't kill people. Hoodies kill people. At least Black teenage people ermm.gif
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droop224
post Mar 24 2012, 09:15 AM
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QUOTE(pheeler @ Mar 23 2012, 02:19 PM) *
QUOTE(droop224 @ Mar 23 2012, 11:14 AM) *
Can you kill someone to stop them from punching you in the face?

If anything, he didn't do it to stop him, he did to retaliate. But we don't know whether Martin punched him in the first place.




QUOTE(moif @ Mar 23 2012, 08:21 PM) *
QUOTE(droop224 @ Mar 23 2012, 08:14 PM) *
Alright, and in which of the three scenarios do you think Zimmerman shouldn't be arrested and tried?


That's the part I don't get. Let's presume that the last example is the way it happened. Trayvon was tired of being harrassed by Zimmerman, he goes to give him a butt-whuppin, does the shooting meet the standard of self defense?


Can you kill someone to stop them from punching you in the face?
Straight to the point. No. But you can act on the false assumption of imminent danger and make a fatal mistake. As far as I can see, this is the only way Zimmerman can claim self defence and given the amount of audio evidence (I'm thinking of Martin's interupted call to his girl friend, and also the 911 call where some one can be heard crying for help immediately prior to the gun shot) it shouldn't be too difficult to establish who felt themselves to be in danger. If its Zimmerman calling for help then his argument seems plausible, but if its Martin then his argument seems implausible.





The point i am trying to get to is what is it that people are waiting for... to see. I don't want a rush to judgement. I don't want a "kangaroo court" for Zimmerman. The media frenzy has likely been worsened and may not have even existed had the police arrested Zimmerman.
But they need evidence that this was wrongful homicide, not a justifiable homicide. They have evidence that Zimmerman was the aggressor . They have evidence that he shot and killed another person. if you are the aggressor than imminent danger of great bodily harm or death is not the standard you need to meet.


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776.041 Use of force by aggressor. —The justification described in the preceding sections of this chapter is not available to a person who:

(1) Is attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of, a forcible felony; or

(2) Initially provokes the use of force against himself or herself, unless:

(a) Such force is so great that the person reasonably believes that he or she is in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant; or(cool.gif In good faith, the person withdraws from physical contact with the assailant and indicates clearly to the assailant that he or she desires to withdraw and terminate the use of force, but the assailant continues or resumes the use of force.
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~~

So let's presume(i'm not saying it is true) that Martin turned and confronted Zimmerman in an agression fashion and even struck him. Does anyone believe that would be enough to justify the homicide. Let's presume that zimmerman thinks ... "Man this guy I've been following is pretty mad and is about to punch me in my face or beat me up" Does anyone believe that this meets the standards that are set forth by the "Stand your ground laws" to be a justifiable homicide... so much so that an arrest wasn't immediate?
So let's presume(i'm not saying it is true) that Martin turned and confronted Zimmerman in an agression fashion and even struck him. Does anyone believe that would be enough to justify the homicide. Let's presume that zimmerman thinks ... "Man this guy I've been following is pretty mad and is about to punch me in my face or beat me up" Does anyone believe that this meets the standards that are set forth by the "Stand your ground laws" to be a justifiable homicide... so much so that an arrest wasn't immediate?
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BaphometsAdvocat...
post Mar 24 2012, 01:51 PM
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QUOTE(BoF @ Mar 23 2012, 04:37 PM) *
I get the impression that you are trying hard to find, as was BD, a way to deflect discussion away from NT's thread.

No. Just correcting you.

I am, not shockingly because you'd have to be just insane not to be, in a agreement with NT and have been this entire thread. You just needed correcting. That's finished.

Oh, and Liar Sharpton and Raceshark Jackson are, as always, opportunists who will serve us all best when they are only memories. Neither thoughtful folks, nor rabble needed to be roused any further on this matter.
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Raptavio
post Mar 24 2012, 02:26 PM
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QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Mar 24 2012, 08:51 AM) *
Oh, and Liar Sharpton and Raceshark Jackson are, as always, opportunists who will serve us all best when they are only memories. Neither thoughtful folks, nor rabble needed to be roused any further on this matter.


Yes, how DARE those two be black and point out that there are racists out there who deny black people like Trayvon Martin justice. Don't they know their place?
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BoF
post Mar 24 2012, 02:36 PM
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QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Mar 24 2012, 08:51 AM) *
QUOTE(BoF @ Mar 23 2012, 04:37 PM) *
I get the impression that you are trying hard to find, as was BD, a way to deflect discussion away from NT's thread.

No. Just correcting you.

I am, not shockingly because you'd have to be just insane not to be, in a agreement with NT and have been this entire thread. You just needed correcting. That's finished.

No. It's not finished. Who the hell are you to be correcting anybody. Your arrogance exceeds your understanding.

Bikerdad introduced a false-equivalency into the mix. I called him on it and you took up his cause. You need to be careful who you "pal around" with.

QUOTE(BoF @ Mar 23 2012, 04:37 PM) *
The Kansas City incident is a false-equivalency for a number of reasons.

First, the perpetrator in the Trayvon Martin case is an adult. The alleged perpetrators in the Kansas City case are juviniles.

Second, Martin was killed, the thirteen year old Kansas City kid is alive.

Third, although it does not seem anyone has been arrested in Kansas City, there doesn’t seem to be a several weeks long police cover-up like in the Sanford, Florida case.

Got that?

QUOTE(Raptavio @ Mar 24 2012, 09:26 AM) *
QUOTE(BaphometsAdvocate @ Mar 24 2012, 08:51 AM) *
Oh, and Liar Sharpton and Raceshark Jackson are, as always, opportunists who will serve us all best when they are only memories. Neither thoughtful folks, nor rabble needed to be roused any further on this matter.


Yes, how DARE those two be black and point out that there are racists out there who deny black people like Trayvon Martin justice. Don't they know their place?

I agree with Raptavio.

Al Sharpton's mother died Thursday. He attended the rally in Sanford that day because, as he said, "That's what she would want me to do." Maybe you should get past your hatred of Sharpton long enough to realize there are times when he just might be right.

This post has been edited by BoF: Mar 24 2012, 02:50 PM
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