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> What location best symbolizes America?, An interesting poll from MSNBC
What location best symbolizes America?
You cannot see the results of the poll until you have voted. Please login and cast your vote to see the results of this poll.
Total Votes: 59
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Victoria Silverw...
post Jun 3 2006, 07:46 AM
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Here's the link:

What location best symbolizes America?

(Click on the slide show to see all the choices.)

Just for fun, let's compare our choices with those of the general public.

Can you predict what will come in first place? (Hint: It came in much, much higher than any other choice.)

Second place? (Not too surprising.)

I have to admit that third place was rather a shock to me.

Cast your vote at the end of the slide show, and you will see the results.

After some thought, I had to go with the Grand Canyon. It was here long before human beings were around, and it will endure when the USA is not even a memory.
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Vladimir
post Jun 14 2006, 01:23 AM
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What location best symbolizes America? Too easy: Fallujah.

http://www.heyokamagazine.com/fallujah1Adobe.jpg

http://iraq-kill-maim.org/fk09/pict465.jpg

http://agora.ya.com/13m2004/25A_archivos/falujah.jpg

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/i...ah_bombings.jpg

http://www.indymedia.be/files/9900falujah.jpg

http://www.misralarabia.com/ImagesArt/5/hogoom%20falujah.gif

http://blog.newstandardnews.net/iraqdispat...Falujah-ip3.jpg

This post has been edited by Vladimir: Jun 14 2006, 01:40 AM
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Vermillion
post Jun 14 2006, 10:28 AM
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QUOTE(lordhelmet @ Jun 3 2006, 10:36 AM) *

You don't see statue of liberties or liberty bells in places like Paris or Tokyo do you?


I had to laugh at this... not making fun of you at all, just the unintentional irony of your remark.

Of course you DO see the statue of Liberty in Paris, the original statue of Liberty sits on an island next to the Pont de Grenelle on the Seine, not far from the Eiffel Tower. The US staue was in fact designed, modeled and entirely constructed in Paris before being shipped to the US...


ANYways...


America has good times and bad times, it has times when it puts forth and supports its founding principles and it has times when it retreats from them and denies them. But overall, there is of course only one thing that signifies and personifies what the Us should be, and at times has been and that as others here have said, is the staue of Liberty.


Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
with conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
a mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame,
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
with silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

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Dontreadonme
post Jun 14 2006, 10:36 AM
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My personal answer is the Liberty Bell, which symbolizes the ideals of freedom and sovereignty. But I can see why most people chose the Statue of Liberty. The ol' lady isn't a bad symbol either.

QUOTE
What location best symbolizes America? Too easy: Fallujah.


Thanks for trying to interject partisan sniping into a casual/fun thread. Your myriad of links would be more at home in a thread actually about Fallujah.
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Vladimir
post Jun 14 2006, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE(Dontreadonme @ Jun 14 2006, 10:36 AM) *

My personal answer is the Liberty Bell, which symbolizes the ideals of freedom and sovereignty. But I can see why most people chose the Statue of Liberty. The ol' lady isn't a bad symbol either.

QUOTE
What location best symbolizes America? Too easy: Fallujah.


Thanks for trying to interject partisan sniping into a casual/fun thread. Your myriad of links would be more at home in a thread actually about Fallujah.


With the greatest respect, I don't think it's sniping at all to point out, in a thread devoted to what symbolizes America, that we should first of all concern ourselves with those things that define us in the world at large. And I think that these days, it is our conduct and its effects in the Middle East chiefly that do that. Only today I read in the New York Times that a survey conducted in many countries shows that opinions of the United States are very low and contining to decline, even among those living in "allied" nations, and that the war in Iraq is a critical reason for that. And considering the blitheness, ignorance, smugness, cruelty, stupidity and arrogance with which we've gone about this particular war, that is hardly surprising.

So I just thought that in context of what is actually happening on this planet, it really is a little too much to return once again to a feel-good session of what a great nation we are and how superbly the Liberty Bell or the Statue of Liberty represents our core values. Does what we do not sufficiently represent us? "By their works, ye shall know them."
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carlitoswhey
post Jun 14 2006, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE(Vermillion @ Jun 14 2006, 05:28 AM) *

QUOTE(lordhelmet @ Jun 3 2006, 10:36 AM) *

You don't see statue of liberties or liberty bells in places like Paris or Tokyo do you?


I had to laugh at this... not making fun of you at all, just the unintentional irony of your remark.

Of course you DO see the statue of Liberty in Paris, the original statue of Liberty sits on an island next to the Pont de Grenelle on the Seine, not far from the Eiffel Tower. The US staue was in fact designed, modeled and entirely constructed in Paris before being shipped to the US...


America has good times and bad times, it has times when it puts forth and supports its founding principles and it has times when it retreats from them and denies them. But overall, there is of course only one thing that signifies and personifies what the Us should be, and at times has been and that as others here have said, is the staue of Liberty.

I have to agree completely with this post.

But the "original" statue of liberty is in Luxembourg Gardens in Paris. I only remember this because I was there in October 2001 and saw that it was converted into a sort of America shrine after 9/11. Of course, this was when "nous sommes tous les américains" was the mantra. I sadly suspect that Vlad is right and especially some of France's North African imports would have placed some nice Falluja propaganda grafitti on there by now. sad.gif

The statue on the island in the Seine was actually a gift from us to the French to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the French Revolution.

interesting statue of liberty link
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Wertz
post Jun 14 2006, 07:21 PM
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As we're discussing the location of the various "statues of liberty", I thought I'd add a point of information (apart from the fact that, in addition to the sister statue in Paris, there are several other replicas in France - as well as Austria, Germany, Italy, Japan, and Viet Nam)...

QUOTE(ConservPat @ Jun 6 2006, 02:10 PM) *
I null voted, but if I were to vote, I would have voted for the Statue of Liberty, New Jersey. New York has already stolen the Jets and the Giants, I'll be damned if I let them take credit for Lady Liberty too.

As for my reasoning, simply, when immigrants think of America, that's what they think of. I've got to think that when most Americans think about America, they think about the Statue...So there's my 2 cents...but it's in New Jersey.


According to Wikipedia, Liberty Island (formerly Bedloe's Island) is
QUOTE
the property of the federal government and is operated by the National Park Service. It is accessible to the public only by ferry - either from Battery Park in Manhattan or Liberty State Park in Jersey City, New Jersey. ...

Liberty Island is one of several islands in New York Harbor near the mouth of the Hudson River. Over it have flown the flags of the Netherlands, Great Britain, and the United States; and for a brief time it was lent to the French government. It had also belonged to the corporation of New York City, to the State, and to several private owners.

Okay, but technically it's in New Jersey, right? Well...

QUOTE
It is sometimes said by New Jersey boosters that "the Statue of Liberty is actually in New Jersey." ... Such statements are incorrect. As noted above, Liberty Island has been owned by the federal government since 1800. It is within the territorial jurisdiction of the State of New York, a status that was reaffirmed by an 1834 compact between New York and New Jersey, and which has never been officially disputed. ...

It is also indisputable that maps draw the boundary between New Jersey and New York in the center of the Hudson River, with Liberty Island situated well on the New Jersey side of the line. The State of New Jersey in fact does retain the riparian rights to all the submerged land surrounding the statue, extending eastward to the boundary line. Perhaps a case can be made for language to the effect that Liberty Island is "geographically" within New Jersey's borders. But New Jersey has never claimed any legal rights to the dry land of Liberty Island. Also, according to the USGS, Liberty Island is located in New York's 8th Congressional District.

Plus the official address is Liberty Island, New York City, NY, 10004 - and the phone number is 212-363-7770 (212 being a New York City area code).

Granted, the Garden State often gets a raw deal in terms of public perception. However, the claim that Liberty Island or the statue, Liberty Enlightening the World, is situated in the state would seem to do little to mitigate that perception. Sorry, CP.


This post has been edited by Wertz: Jun 14 2006, 07:55 PM
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Syfir
post Jun 15 2006, 02:38 PM
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QUOTE(Wertz @ Jun 9 2006, 12:12 PM) *

No apology necessary. I'm a frequent target of rants. mrsparkle.gif


Thanks for your niceness. It is nice to not have someone escalate things on the boards. I know that my post probably came across as an attack to some but that wasn't how it was intended.

QUOTE(Wertz @ Jun 9 2006, 12:12 PM) *

I do, however, believe that you mistook my irony for hatred when I suggested Gitmo Bay as a national icon.

Regarding tarring the country with the same brush, I'm afraid that I'm not the one who's been doing the tarring. If Americans as a whole embraced what the Statue of Liberty actually stands for, they would long ago have rejected the tyranny of an administration that has permanently changed what it means to be American. Being American now means that we have an Executive that is unchecked by the other branches of government. It means that our Declaration of Independence, our Constitution, and our Bill of Rights no longer have meaning. In five years, we have allowed an autocratic administration to unmake that for which our founders fought and died.


I don't know how those of us not associated with any particular political party are supposed to improve on this. We get the choice between people thrust on us by the R/D's. This is more of a frustrated complaint than disagreeing very much with your post. As long as the two partys have a stranglehold on the branches of government there really isn't anything the rest of us can do.

I personally am for a constitutional amendment mandating term limits. Maybe I will look into starting a thread on that.

QUOTE(Wertz @ Jun 9 2006, 12:12 PM) *

A couple of small points. You are correct that I should have said "what is now known as the US" was first settled in the west. It was indeed the ancestors of the Native Americans who eventually made their way to the east coast that I meant by the "original settlers" of North America.

Also, there is a difference between being of Anglo descent and being Anglo-centric. If anything, our founders were Franco-centric in terms of political philosophy. It was against the Anglo system that they were reacting. Were those founders alive today, there would be a second revolution to overthrow our new king. The fact that we, the people, have not undertaken to cast off this new yoke means that we no longer deserve a Statue of Liberty.

And that isn't irony.


Another topic for another thread smile.gif
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