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> Animal/Human Porn, Should it be legal?
Kanyeshnah
post Aug 18 2003, 11:11 PM
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Just in case you were wondering, I got the idea from my friends talking. It's kosher, don't worry!

Personally I think animal/human porn is disgusting. But something does not have to be illegal because it is disgusting. But what about cruel? I think animal/human porn is cruel to the animal. The animal is not being given a choice to engage in these acts and there are probably numerous cases where the animal has to be forced into what he/she is doing.

It is for this reason that I think animal/human porn should be illegalized.

What about you? Do you think animal/human porn should remain legal? Why?
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Kisov
post Aug 18 2003, 11:18 PM
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I don't know about where you live, Kanyeshnah, but in Colorado it is VERY illegal to have sex with an animal. . .something about cruelty to animals, I think.

-Kisov
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Kanyeshnah
post Aug 18 2003, 11:42 PM
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I'm from California and I did suspect that it might be illegal in other states but I didn't really feel the need to put it in until I read your post. Go figure! laugh.gif

OK then, should bestiality (not just animal/human porn) be legal in the states where they currently are legal?

This post has been edited by Kanyeshnah: Aug 18 2003, 11:46 PM
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Dontreadonme
post Aug 19 2003, 12:02 AM
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Does anyone have a listing for which states this may be legal in?

I was always under the impression that it wasn't in any state.
(Insert West Virginia joke here) tongue.gif
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GoAmerica
post Aug 19 2003, 12:32 AM
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QUOTE(Kanyeshnah @ Aug 18 2003, 06:11 PM)
What about you? Do you think animal/human porn should remain legal? Why?

Definetly Illegal.

It's cruel to animals to use them for entertainment...right up their with rodeos.

You are basically harming the animal when you use it for porn purposes physically and that is cruel to harm animals

Edited to add:

DTOM:

QUOTE
I was always under the impression that it wasn't in any state. (Insert West Virginia joke here) tongue.gif


you mean insert redneck joke here whistling.gif

This post has been edited by goamerica: Aug 19 2003, 12:33 AM
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Paladin Elspeth
post Aug 19 2003, 03:28 AM
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Pretty sick stuff. Bestiality has no place on book stands, in my opinion. It makes me think cruel, angry thoughts about the alleged "humans" who would do such a thing to an animal.

And I highly doubt that it is kosher in any sense of the word. sour.gif

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Aug 19 2003, 03:30 AM
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Sleeper
post Aug 19 2003, 03:36 AM
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Strictly playing Devil's Advocate here... But why is it wrong?

because of the Bible?

Because of Ethics?

If an animal was found to experience pleasure from such an act, should it still be illegal?
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nighttimer
post Aug 19 2003, 03:43 AM
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Once upon a time people thought it was disgusting for people to have sex with someone of the same gender.

Once upon a time people thought it was disgusting to have sex with someone of a different race.

I still think it is disgusting to have sex with someone who is not of an age of consent.

I also think it is disgusting to have sex outside of your species. Beastility, necrophilia, sex games with bodily waste and that kind of kinky crap CREEPS ME OUT!!!! You can debate whether or not the animal enjoys the sex or not, but it sure can't give consent and for me that trumps all the intellectual parlor games.

Now excuse me. This scuzzy subject makes me crave a hot shower. crying.gif

This post has been edited by nighttimer: Aug 19 2003, 03:45 AM
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erratic_energy
post Aug 19 2003, 04:41 AM
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I took a class called The History of Sexuality in America last semester...and had to read 70pgs on beastility and sodomy in the colonial period (as that was when it was a crime and convicted with penalty of death). Apparently beastility was the male equivilant of what happened to women with the accusation of witch. At one point the deal was there had to be two witnesses to the crime to convict or a person had to fess up. That person was then put to death and each animal they had sodomized also put to death (they did not want tainted meat, milk etc.). Made you feel sort of bad for the animals that were taken advantage of. The reading I did also indicated that the practice was brought over to the colonies from europe and was passed down by men to younger boys. Documents I read indicated that only 2 women were ever brought to trial for beastility (I believe both were cases where it was "attempted").

I also had to learn about the porn industry and its roots. I am anti violent pornography. The porn industry is not as glamorous as many might assume. We watched videos of testimony from women who had been sold into the industry by parents or entered out of lack of other options (abiet most of which was happening in the 80s). The stories they had to tell were terrible. I can't say I'm anti pornography in general mostly just anti-pornography that is abusive to women (or males or I suppose in this case animals). From what I understand the industry has changed in the last 10 or 15 years and has become more about pleasuring women than it once was. IMO it is doubtful that beasility is pleasureable to the animal.

*I'm going home later this week to pick up some things (just moved) I'll pick up the books from that class while i'm at it and try and post some quotes on the issue. Below are links to the books we used in that class.
American Sexual Histories
Major Problems in the History of American Sexuality

In any case...I dunno where I stand on this one. I tend to lean in favor of criminalizing animal pornography for similar reasons that child pornography is illegal. I think that a case could easily be made for animal cruelty with the animal porn/beastility thing. The problem with attacking the porn industry is that it wields the concepts of "freedom of speech" against attacks.
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nileriver
post Aug 19 2003, 06:07 AM
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First of all i would like to say that the ability to even have something like bestiality in history and today shows you how dynamic sexuality in just sex really is. For the most part i donít think bestiality is illegal do to animal reasons but that most humans really find it gross and donít want to think about it. To elaborate on this even further the idea or attempt to control sexual desires and tendencies in humans is nothing new, and being prostitution is one of the worlds oldest ways to make money, none of this is new.The ideas and people that come along to deal with it are new in a way though. I do think anything that has to do with sexuality that does not allow for consent should be illegal, otherwise its just basically rape in a sense. Then of course you have to deal with level of intelligence, age and a slew of social constructs the likes no one real human can probably fully define, but to say if me and my female both decided it would be fun or something to go in front of a web cam and show all who wish to see our joy what is the crime there? If humans can view such material and not let it ruin them, is that any different from the gun control debate? I am not saying we should bury society in porn, but i am saying that it would be silly to make it illegal. Just to add, what is the difference in American porn industries to ones in other parts of the world, anyone know of any?

Just to add, way back in some country in Europe, a female that was in power also had a sex addiction or was a nymph, she actually died when a donkey she was trying to have sex with fell on her laugh.gif Its weird to say the least.

And now that i have ruined any reputation I might have had left, maybe this will open up the debate further.
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CruisingRam
post Aug 19 2003, 06:27 AM
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Off topic just a tad- you are speaking of the legend of Catherine the great of Russia- not true- old wives tale. She did have many lovers and this is documented, but nothing documented of beastiality and her death and causes are well documented.

Most beastiality studies done shows that it mostly happens in rural farming areas, where access to a same species mate is not possible. Some things I have read is those folks that have been given therapy for beastiality really prefered humans, just couldn't find a partner.
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nileriver
post Aug 19 2003, 06:57 AM
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You know about that, what about the lady that tried to stay young with the blood of her servents and then the town, any truth to that. Yes it is rather off topic, i just dont really get what the topic is?
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quarkhead
post Aug 19 2003, 07:29 AM
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Just to insert a bit of questioning here:

Some of argued against this using the idea of "rights" and "consent," which certainly makes sense... but we don't consider the animal's rights when we send it to a slaughter house, or bring it into a lab to be experimented upon. I'm not some radical animal rights person, but, why would these be any different? It seems the moral argument may be the strongest; but certainly not the "rights" angle.

I'm not sure, but I don't think KFC asks their chickens for consent to become crispy baskets of legs, wings, thighs and breasts.
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Paladin Elspeth
post Aug 19 2003, 08:12 AM
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Animals have been used for food for as long as there has been a human race.

But for sexual gratification? I have heard that in the Quran there are supposedly guidelines for men using sheep for sex. Never having read the Quran, I don't know. I know that the Old Testament says the man and the animal were to be destroyed for this offense.

What kind of woman would want the semen of an animal deposited in her vagina?
What kind of man would want to embed his penis and deposit human sperm into the orifice of another species? Someone who can't make it with a human, I would say.

To these people I would say, talk to the hand, their own hand, if they need gratification that badly.

I also think watching this kind of filth should be illegal.

(edited)

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Aug 19 2003, 08:15 AM
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CruisingRam
post Aug 19 2003, 08:27 AM
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QUOTE(nileriver @ Aug 19 2003, 06:57 AM)
You know about that, what about the lady that tried to stay young with the blood of her servents and then the town, any truth to that. Yes it is rather off topic, i just dont really get what the topic is?

Yes- she is a hungarian princess, her name eludes me- that is thought to be the ACTUAL person that the Dracula persona is based on- she was brought down for actually killing another noble woman, had she continued just to torture the townspoeple and servants, she would have been fine.

Back on subject- I think it is kinda gross myself (understatement) , however, it doesn't fall outside the realm of human and animal weirdness. The sex drive is a very basic one, and humans being one of the few species that engages in sex for recreation, we are naturally are going to have a larger divergence of deviants LOL

This post has been edited by CruisingRam: Aug 19 2003, 08:33 AM
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Hugo
post Aug 19 2003, 07:54 PM
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I've never had a sheep complain. I am tired of the moral police, on one hand, and the PETA wackos on the other attempting to limit my individual freedom. As Quark implied. If you can eat 'em, you can engage in intercourse with them. I would rather be a sheep consigned to life as a sex object than sent to the slaughterhouse.
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BecomingHuman
post Aug 19 2003, 08:30 PM
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QUOTE(Hugo @ Aug 19 2003, 07:54 PM)
I've never had a sheep complain. I am tired of the moral police, on one hand, and the PETA wackos on the other attempting to limit my individual freedom. As Quark implied. If you can eat 'em, you can engage in intercourse with them. I would rather be a sheep consigned to life as a sex object than sent to the slaughterhouse.

I think Hugo and Quark have a point here.

I mean, what if you had sex with an animal who was on his way to the slaughter house? Are you harming that animal more than it will ultimately be harmed?

Whats the greater crime? Having sex with an animal, or tearing it limb from limb and selling it?

I'm not a vegetarian, but it seems somewhat hypocritical to me to eat a steak and claim that having sex with a cow is harming it.
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Paladin Elspeth
post Aug 19 2003, 08:49 PM
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QUOTE
I've never had a sheep complain.


Hugo, how many sheep have you had?

And what have the "moral police" ever, actually done to YOU, or any of the posters here, for that matter? Have you been put into jail? Have you gotten a ticket?

The "moral police" have as much right to express their opinion as you do. And I would also say that I would eat steak in the presence of my friends and share the steak with them, but there is NO WAY I would have sexual relations with a person, let alone an ANIMAL, in the presence of my friends.

I think I'll go take a shower now... sour.gif
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Abs like Jesus
post Aug 19 2003, 09:04 PM
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I think beastiality should be discouraged, but not illegal.

It makes sense to argue about exploiting the animal, violating rights and animal cruelty, but as Hugo, Rancid and others have pointed out, these arguments fall apart in light of slaughtering animals for food.

I can see no good reason for a person to commit beastiality, and I would rather not think of people who take pleasure in viewing such practices. Having said that, there are obviously those people who do enjoy such things. We don't have to like it, but they don't seem to be any more of a danger to their neighbor than the other fetish folk who have sex with kitchen appliances or make a habit of choking themselves while masturbating or engaging in sex with their partner.

Animals aren't granted rights in our society. They are either food or a person's personal property. As long as there is no owner who can argue that their property is being vandalized or violated I can't see beastiality being illegal. Most people eat animals, some force them to wear fuzzy sweaters and some... well, you already know what some of the others do. sour.gif
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Hugo
post Aug 19 2003, 09:06 PM
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QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Aug 19 2003, 02:49 PM)
The "moral police" have as much right to express their opinion as you do. And I would also say that I would eat steak in the presence of my friends and share the steak with them, but there is NO WAY I would have sexual relations with a person, let alone an ANIMAL, in the presence of my friends.


It is people like you, with your puritanical opinions, that keep "true" animal lovers in the closet. Everyone has a right to their opinion. In a society that respects individual freedom, what two consenting animals do in the bedroom, or the barnyard, should not be subject to legislation.

This post has been edited by Hugo: Aug 19 2003, 09:08 PM
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