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> Is Obama even eligible?
holdingtheline
post Aug 24 2008, 03:57 PM
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A member of the democrat party has just filed suit in federal court alleging that Obama is ineligible to be the POTUS because of citizenship issues.
read the full story here


While I personally suspect some of the allegations are true, I am more interested in your thoughts on the following, since the man who filed the suit is a staunch Hillary supporter.

1. Is she aware of the suit, maybe even directly behind it?

2. Is this why she still seems to be hanging onto the possibility of getting the nod in Denver?
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Jaime
post Nov 4 2008, 12:38 PM
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QUOTE(nighttimer @ Nov 4 2008, 02:51 AM) *
Not ONE of you dudes---Zack, quick, Bikerdad, Guardian Angel, Blackstone, Aquilla, Ted, Amlord or the rest of the ad.gif right-wing lunatic fringe will bring this up again.


Leave the personal attacks OUT of the debates.

TOPICS:

1. Is she aware of the suit, maybe even directly behind it?

2. Is this why she still seems to be hanging onto the possibility of getting the nod in Denver?

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nighttimer
post Nov 4 2008, 01:03 PM
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QUOTE(holdingtheline @ Nov 4 2008, 06:12 AM) *
First, I am offended that I wasn't called out by name here. Afterall, I initiated the thread! If Obama loses there would be no reason to bring it back up, unless it was an 'I told you so moment'.


You weren't called out by name because frankly, I tend to forget you post here.

QUOTE
This wasn't a spiteful slimy rumor or lie. It was a legit question. I'll give you credit though nighttimer, you are showing signs of evolving from your 'everything said about Obama is racially motivated' cocoon. Fistbump to you, dude!


Truth be told, it was a spiteful slimy rumor when this hit job thread originated in August and it's still a spiteful, slimy rumor in November.

The passage of time hasn't made the lie any more true.
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turnea
post Nov 4 2008, 01:11 PM
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QUOTE(Bikerdad @ Nov 3 2008, 10:58 PM) *
QUOTE(turnea @ Nov 3 2008, 11:07 PM) *


Sorry, not his birth certificate. The State of Hawaii just recently "averred" that everything was in order with Barack's birth certificate, but they did not provide a copy for independent verification. That copy on the LA Times blog carries no weight, legal or otherwise.

That was in fact his "short-form" birth certificate. What the court said Martin had no right to was the "long-form"

I don't think I ever seen my long form. No one ever asks for it.
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kevmo
post Jul 29 2009, 04:46 AM
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QUOTE(holdingtheline @ Aug 24 2008, 08:57 AM) *
A member of the democrat party has just filed suit in federal court alleging that Obama is ineligible to be the POTUS because of citizenship issues.
read the full story here

It looks like this issue is getting a lot of play lately, spurred by the claim of Major Stefan Cooke that he needed clarification of Obama's eligibility to give orders. Obama seemed to back down rather than just produce the $15 birth certificate. I asked my friend why he would do this and my friend said it's because Obama is just a wimp, backing down from every fight he's ever looked at. I don't buy this line of reasoning, because he took on Hillary and wiped out McCain, 2 of the most senior politicians in the business. Why did Obama back down on Major Cooke rather than produce the long form of the birth certificate and be done with it?
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Paladin Elspeth
post Jul 29 2009, 05:55 AM
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QUOTE(kevmo @ Jul 29 2009, 12:46 AM) *
QUOTE(holdingtheline @ Aug 24 2008, 08:57 AM) *
A member of the democrat party has just filed suit in federal court alleging that Obama is ineligible to be the POTUS because of citizenship issues.
read the full story here

It looks like this issue is getting a lot of play lately, spurred by the claim of Major Stefan Cooke that he needed clarification of Obama's eligibility to give orders. Obama seemed to back down rather than just produce the $15 birth certificate. I asked my friend why he would do this and my friend said it's because Obama is just a wimp, backing down from every fight he's ever looked at. I don't buy this line of reasoning, because he took on Hillary and wiped out McCain, 2 of the most senior politicians in the business. Why did Obama back down on Major Cooke rather than produce the long form of the birth certificate and be done with it?

Hey, it's the best thing to date that has happened to discredit the Republicans, and that's saying a lot considering Sarah Palin, Senator Ensign, Governor "Hiking the Ol' Appalachian Trail" Sanford, and all the other Republican high jinks. Why should Democrats stop them from hoisting themselves with their own petards when it means they won't be taken seriously?

Chris Matthews had a copy of the birth certificate, and the Honolulu newspaper published the birth announcement. And as Jon Stewart said on The Daily Show, "...And now we wait, 47 years, for him to run for President." Some plot, eh? rolleyes.gif

Doesn't anybody think that the Federal Election Commission would have had something to say had Obama been ineligible? Really.

(If we want to look at conspiracies, try the C Street "Family" with their trips for entitled, U.S, born-again Christian politicians overseas to influence major world leaders their way because they are the "chosen", to the point that a little thing like adultery or paying hush money to the family of the mistress isn't grounds for their resignations. I understand that Senator Ensign (correction: former Senator Pickering) and his mistress allegedly had a tryst in the C Street apartment. I suppose they're doing this because they're fighting the antichrist. Can't let a little thing like moral turpitude get in the way... shifty.gif )

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Jul 29 2009, 06:44 AM
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Christopher
post Jul 29 2009, 06:13 AM
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Apollo Moon Landing Hoax
The Philadelphia Experiment
Jewish World Domination
Global Warming is Real
John F. Kennedy’s Assasination
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Vegetarianism



Now these are truly great conspiracy theories. The sad attempt to create doubt by the birthers--- what is it with conservatives and lame-O nicknames? a little TOO much keeping it in the family?--- should scare the weezies out of the GOP. This is your base at heart. Not true? Doesn't matter, cause if they keep talking they will BE the poster children of the GOP. Palin, Ensign, Sanford........

and the beat goes on.........
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AuthorMusician
post Jul 29 2009, 05:27 PM
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QUOTE(kevmo @ Jul 29 2009, 12:46 AM) *
QUOTE(holdingtheline @ Aug 24 2008, 08:57 AM) *
A member of the democrat party has just filed suit in federal court alleging that Obama is ineligible to be the POTUS because of citizenship issues.
read the full story here

It looks like this issue is getting a lot of play lately, spurred by the claim of Major Stefan Cooke that he needed clarification of Obama's eligibility to give orders. Obama seemed to back down rather than just produce the $15 birth certificate. I asked my friend why he would do this and my friend said it's because Obama is just a wimp, backing down from every fight he's ever looked at. I don't buy this line of reasoning, because he took on Hillary and wiped out McCain, 2 of the most senior politicians in the business. Why did Obama back down on Major Cooke rather than produce the long form of the birth certificate and be done with it?


Because the POTUS has better things to do? That would be my guess. How many majors are in the US armed services? A boatload. Several boatloads. What makes any one of them special? Nothing.

That Hawaii confirms that there is where President Obama was born should be enough evidence for any sane person.

However, we are not dealing with sane people here, obviously. Probably not very smart ones either. They may not believe that Hawaii is part of the United States. After all, it's way out there in the Pacific, has volcanoes and brown people, even black beaches!

How not contiguous.
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DaytonRocker
post Jul 29 2009, 06:09 PM
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QUOTE(kevmo @ Jul 29 2009, 12:46 AM) *
QUOTE(holdingtheline @ Aug 24 2008, 08:57 AM) *
A member of the democrat party has just filed suit in federal court alleging that Obama is ineligible to be the POTUS because of citizenship issues.
read the full story here

It looks like this issue is getting a lot of play lately, spurred by the claim of Major Stefan Cooke that he needed clarification of Obama's eligibility to give orders. Obama seemed to back down rather than just produce the $15 birth certificate. I asked my friend why he would do this and my friend said it's because Obama is just a wimp, backing down from every fight he's ever looked at. I don't buy this line of reasoning, because he took on Hillary and wiped out McCain, 2 of the most senior politicians in the business. Why did Obama back down on Major Cooke rather than produce the long form of the birth certificate and be done with it?

Umm...uhh...I guess your in-depth analysis missed the part where Hawaii went paperless years ago. The originals don't exist any longer and only the document making the rounds is now provided. In othre words, people are asking for something that doesn't exist and is not required.

Personally, I really like the Muslim terrorist angle much better.
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BoF
post Jul 29 2009, 06:37 PM
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The whole birther thing is pathetic.

This is an old thread, bumped by a newbie. What value is there in leaving it open?

This post has been edited by BoF: Jul 29 2009, 07:44 PM
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AuthorMusician
post Jul 29 2009, 08:10 PM
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QUOTE(BoF @ Jul 29 2009, 02:37 PM) *
The whole birther thing is pathetic.

This is an old thread, bumped by a newbie. What value is there in leaving it open?


I find the whole birther movement to be hilarious for one.

I liked finding out that Hawaii went paperless years ago, and therefore no paper-based birth certificate exists. The paperless office, who could have known? Except it's been an idea tossed around and implemented since, oh, 1980 or so.

The media clowns are funny too, not to mention congresscritters trying to backpedal away from this crazy-eyed non-issue.

But yeah, this should probably be converted to casual conversation or another political humor thread. It has no other worth.
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Nemo
post Jul 30 2009, 01:39 PM
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This is a dead issue. The so-called controversy over Barack Obama’s eligibility to be President under the Constitution is a nonstarter and a no-brainer. President Obama’s birth certificate has been authenticated by the State of Hawaii; which would be admissible as records of vital statistics under Rule 803(9) of the Federal Rules of Evidence in any action in which such issue was relevant. However, you don’t even get there because the federal courts lack subject matter jurisdiction for lack of standing of the plaintiffs (appellants) in the case. The lawyers that filed these frivolous lawsuits (and appeals) well knew that they lacked standing to sue, and that such actions would be dismissed; and only did so to generate publicity (and money) for themselves. What is interesting is the number of gullible people that have been taken in by this champerty. Indeed, one would think that P.T. Barnum’s estimate on the birthrate of suckers will have to be adjusted for inflation.
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TedN5
post Jul 31 2009, 11:05 PM
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I generally avoid forums like this but this whole "birther" things seems to have legs with some Republican representatives. Perhaps THIS is why. Unlike the rest of the country, over 40% of southerns give it some credence!
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AuthorMusician
post Aug 1 2009, 07:24 AM
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QUOTE(TedN5 @ Jul 31 2009, 07:05 PM) *
I generally avoid forums like this but this whole "birther" things seems to have legs with some Republican representatives. Perhaps THIS is why. Unlike the rest of the country, over 40% of southerns give it some credence!


Not surprising. I've lived in the South. Not surprising at all. Let's give it a more positive spin - 60% think President Obama was born in the US.

Makes me think that a few more generations more and the Civil War will finally be over.

This also points to the foolishness of politicians trying to make it an issue, the place of birth. Hardly anyone who counts takes this seriously. It's a bad pony, don't bet on it.
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kevmo
post Aug 2 2009, 06:58 AM
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QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Aug 1 2009, 12:24 AM) *
Hardly anyone who counts takes this seriously.

What does that mean? We all have one vote, no one is supposed to "count" more than one vote's worth.

QUOTE(BoF @ Jul 29 2009, 11:37 AM) *
This is an old thread, bumped by a newbie. What value is there in leaving it open?

Sure, I'm a newbie, but this is a hot topic in the news. The value for the forum to leave it open is that this is possibly one of the better places to hash out this issue.
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Maybe Maybe Not
post Aug 2 2009, 12:29 PM
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QUOTE(kevmo @ Aug 2 2009, 01:58 AM) *
QUOTE(BoF @ Jul 29 2009, 11:37 AM) *
This is an old thread, bumped by a newbie. What value is there in leaving it open?

Sure, I'm a newbie, but this is a hot topic in the news. The value for the forum to leave it open is that this is possibly one of the better places to hash out this issue.
I agree. "Newbie" has nothing to do with it. And there HAS been a bit of resurgence of this issue lately. It's fairly desperate and sad, in my opinion, that it's come to this for some Obama opponents. But why not review it? Maybe someone unfamiliar with the extent to which the idea has been debunked will read it and come to his or her senses.

(I think the more interesting and complex question is whether or not McCain is techinically eligible to the presidency. I'm sure there's a thread on that here somewhere. I believe he is NOT technically eligible, but certainly should be, and that a Constitutional amendment ought to be passed ensuring that he is.)
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overlandsailor
post Aug 2 2009, 01:23 PM
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QUOTE(Maybe Maybe Not @ Aug 2 2009, 07:29 AM) *
(I think the more interesting and complex question is whether or not McCain is techinically eligible to the presidency. I'm sure there's a thread on that here somewhere. I believe he is NOT technically eligible, but certainly should be, and that a Constitutional amendment ought to be passed ensuring that he is.)


The topic you're referring to is here, and Senator John McCain is a Natural-Born U.S. Citizen. The question has been handled here as well.

As for President Obama, he is also a Natural-Born U.S. Citizen. The question was Debunked here.
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AuthorMusician
post Aug 2 2009, 01:46 PM
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QUOTE(kevmo @ Aug 2 2009, 02:58 AM) *
QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Aug 1 2009, 12:24 AM) *
Hardly anyone who counts takes this seriously.

What does that mean? We all have one vote, no one is supposed to "count" more than one vote's worth.


My meaning is that anyone who counts as far as judging if President Obama is eligible to be President Obama does not believe the birthers' claims. This comment had nothing to do with voting.

I did leave room for certain Republican legislators who seem to think this (birther conspiracy theory) is important enough to draft a bill and submit it for voting. In that case, only legislators get to vote. That's how a republic works. You don't get your one vote on the legislation.

As for electing a POTUS, your vote counts as much as your Electoral College votes, which may mean not at all. But that wasn't what I was referring to, it was the current news of how certain Republicans want birth certificates provided for all future candidates.

Even if President Obama's birth certificate was good enough to run for POTUS and get a passport. Even after the state of Hawaii confirmed President Obama's natural citizenship. Even after publicizing the two newspaper announcements of birth.

Hope this clarifies my original statement.


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Paladin Elspeth
post Aug 2 2009, 10:01 PM
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For goodness' sake, why choose such a piddling, easy to refute charge to cast aspersions on the President, when there are every day issues of great consequence that he and the Congress are arguing over and working on every day Congress is in session?

To the "birthers" I would say, Work your little hearts out if you feel that brings meaning to your lives, but know that you are setting yourselves up for disappointment.

Show the birth certificate to the American people? Already done. Check Overland Sailor's link; that's the most recent one. Question asked and answered.
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BoF
post Aug 2 2009, 10:27 PM
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QUOTE(Maybe Maybe Not @ Aug 2 2009, 07:29 AM) *
But why not review it?

I ask you why we should "review" it?

This is a desperate issue being pushed by desperate people. Do we want to follow this sideshow this for the next four to eight years?

QUOTE
Maybe someone unfamiliar with the extent to which the idea has been debunked will read it and come to his or her senses.

I somehow doubt that.

The birthers, like the lady in red at Rep. Mike Castle’s town hall, don’t know when to stop and those that do want to continue letting the hatred spew, since it paints a picture of Obama as something “other” than one of us.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/07/21/castle-townhall/
Click video. The birther nut is 3:20 into the video.


QUOTE
(I think the more interesting and complex question is whether or not McCain is techinically eligible to the presidency. I'm sure there's a thread on that here somewhere. I believe he is NOT technically eligible, but certainly should be, and that a Constitutional amendment ought to be passed ensuring that he is.)

McCain, is a moot point.

This post has been edited by BoF: Aug 2 2009, 11:07 PM
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Maybe Maybe Not
post Aug 2 2009, 11:31 PM
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QUOTE(BoF @ Aug 2 2009, 05:27 PM) *
I ask you why we should "review" it?

This is a desperate issue being pushed by desperate people. Do we want to follow this sideshow this for the next four to eight years?
This is a debate site. Someone raises an issue? Debate it.

You want to decide which issues SHOULD be debated, and which issues should NOT? Start your own site and set your own rules.
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