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> Florida Shootings?
Julian
post Jun 15 2016, 05:10 PM
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Question for debate:
What was behind the Florida mass shootings? Extremist Islam? Self-hating homosexuality? A Mixture of factors?

What can be done that will most effectively limit the likelihood of a repeat? Restrictions on gun ownership, or restrictions on the Muslim population of the USA (be it native or visiting)?
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Mrs. Pigpen
post Jun 16 2016, 11:59 AM
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What was behind the Florida mass shootings? Extremist Islam? Self-hating homosexuality? A Mixture of factors?

Mixture. Apparently the shooter had frequented that club many times in the past three years. But then ISIS people aren't exactly known for their piety, from what I've read the movement started in prison, amongst the criminal underground.

What can be done that will most effectively limit the likelihood of a repeat? Restrictions on gun ownership, or restrictions on the Muslim population of the USA (be it native or visiting)?

Well, the shooter in this case had a history of spousal abuse and was investigated twice by the FBI for terror links.

You'd think that type of history would raise SOME flags
.

But then again, they have to be careful because anything that might be perceived as discrimination for race or religion could result in a lawsuit against the state. Hed been an employee of the security firm G4S since September 2007. If he was trained and licensed to carry weapons as a security contractor he must've been able to pass some background checks.

This post has been edited by Mrs. Pigpen: Jun 16 2016, 12:05 PM
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akaCG
post Jun 16 2016, 02:09 PM
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What can be done that will most effectively limit the likelihood of a repeat? Restrictions on gun ownership, or restrictions on the Muslim population of the USA (be it native or visiting)?
The following (proposed by the Senate Republicans last December, supported by the NRA, but shot down by the Senate Democrats) would help:
QUOTE
...
A better solution was voted down last December by Democrats. A bill drafted by Sen. John Cornyn, R-Tex., would establish "probable cause" as the standard for stopping a gun purchase by someone on such a list. "Probable cause" is a pretty low bar, the standard used by authorities when they obtain a warrant for the arrest of a suspect.

This Republican-backed proposal would have delayed the sale of a firearm to someone on the list for up to 72 hours, during which time the government would have to come up with "probable cause" that the purchaser was plotting to commit terrorism.

The NRA has supported this approach for years. ...
...

More, including the ACLU's stance on the matter, here: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/a-better...article/2594006

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AuthorMusician
post Jun 16 2016, 05:03 PM
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Gray Seal
post Jun 18 2016, 04:36 PM
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What was behind the Florida mass shootings? Extremist Islam? Self-hating homosexuality? A Mixture of factors?

A man was struggling to find his place in the world. Moral denunciation of him from his family put extreme pressure upon him. He was latching onto some one or something who would accept him.

What can be done that will most effectively limit the likelihood of a repeat? Restrictions on gun ownership, or restrictions on the Muslim population of the USA (be it native or visiting)?

End the invasion and military occupation of foreign lands. The blow back is going to continue if we do not change our ways.
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Hobbes
post Jun 19 2016, 12:35 AM
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What was behind the Florida mass shootings? Extremist Islam? Self-hating homosexuality? A Mixture of factors?

So far, it seems to me to be a mix of factors. The shooter does appear to have had some homosexual tendencies, probably some self-hating, but also seemed to be following ISIS and the Boston terrorists. If I had to pick one from that mix, though, it seems a personal vendetta against homosexuals more than anything else.

What can be done that will most effectively limit the likelihood of a repeat?

It would seem prudent that if someone has been investigated for terrorist tendencies, that maintaining some sort sort of alert of them should they ever purchase a weapon (particularly something like an AR-16) would be prudent. I don't think we can devote resources to continued surveillance of those who were investigated and had their case closed, but having an alert if they purchase someone that is likely to be used in a terrorist attack, which could then trigger some increased surveillance, seems workable, and without limiting anyone's rights or freedoms. Particularly when the seller notices very suspicious behaviour, and the purchaser also tries to buy body armor. A whole series of red flags there.

Restrictions on gun ownership, or restrictions on the Muslim population of the USA (be it native or visiting)?

Neither (unless one considers the above a restriction on gun ownership).

I would add that many would consider reductions in restrictions in gun ownership a third option.

This post has been edited by Hobbes: Jun 19 2016, 12:36 AM
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Bikerdad
post Jun 21 2016, 06:34 AM
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[quote name='Julian' date='Jun 15 2016, 11:10 AM' post='100033612']
Question for debate:
What was behind the Florida mass shootings? Extremist Islam? Self-hating homosexuality? A Mixture of factors?
Islam. 28,640 terrorist attacks since 9/11 argues that it is NOT "Extremist Islam", it is Islam, plain and simple.

What can be done that will most effectively limit the likelihood of a repeat?
Call it what it is, an attack by an adherent of a totalitarian ideology that must be destroyed, just as Nazism and Japanese imperial militarism were destroyed. Utterly, and without mercy.

Restrictions on gun ownership, Restrictions on gun ownership did a dandy job in Paris and Brussells, eh? Likewise, a rip roaring job at the Boston Marathon.

or restrictions on the Muslim population of the USA (be it native or visiting)?
Yes.
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Trouble
post Jun 21 2016, 11:30 PM
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What was behind the Florida mass shootings? Extremist Islam? Self-hating homosexuality? A Mixture of factors?

Mental illness. I see several correlations with this individual and the Canadian shooter, Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, and possibly Thomas Mair of the UK, mentally ill people who had sought help, were denied help, had a history of instability, and to whom two of the three had declared loose affiliation with a Jihadist movement only weeks before the attack. Does anyone have a forensic report on what drugs were in the shooter's system? I have a feeling a toxicology report would be illuminating.

What can be done that will most effectively limit the likelihood of a repeat? Restrictions on gun ownership, or restrictions on the Muslim population of the USA (be it native or visiting)?


This incident may work counter to what you have suggested. To my understanding this was a gun free zone. Trust me, gun advocates are going to quickly seize upon the fact there were several opportunities to rush the assailant as shooting that many people would have to involve repeated reloading. The arguement will be there was a distinct lack of gun ownership verses too much of it. A lack of available fire arms contributed to the severity of the attack.

Late edit: After considering your option of restricting immigration, yes the incident could have some spin off effects pertaining to tighter immigration policy. Then again, that is a key plank of the Trump phenomenon. Yes, I can see Mr. Trump finding political traction from this issue. I hope a constructive debate can come forth on what constitutes a healthy immigration rate in the age of dismal job growth, and having the understanding that illegal immigration is a separate issue necessitating a separate response.

This post has been edited by Trouble: Jun 22 2016, 05:27 AM
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