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> Condoleeza vs. Hillary, Which One Should Be "Madame President?"
Who Would You Vote For?
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nighttimer
post Jan 24 2006, 01:19 AM
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I was reading an article by Shelby Steele where he takes Senator Hillary Clinton to task for her "plantation" remarks. We've already had that discussion so there's no need to rehash it.

Steele ups the ante by stating Clinton's biggest fear is being upstaged by the one woman in American politics that could derail her desire to become the first woman President of the United States.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/fe...ml?id=110007854

However, let's just allow the possibility that maybe---JUST MAYBE---the Democratic and Republican Party would dare to pit two of the most powerful women in America against each other in the 2008 Presidential race.

The worst kept secret in Washington is Senator Clinton wants to be president. On the other hand, Secretary of State Rice has repeatedly said she has no interest in replacing her boss as Chief Executive.

Still, many times when a politician says "No" they really mean, "Maybe" if the circumstances change and when they say "Maybe" they really mean "Yes." Even though she's never run for any office, Rice is a consummate politician and knows her way around power. While she protests no interest in the presidency, what if George W. Bush went to her and said, "Condi, you're the only one who can keep Hillary out of the Oval Office."

Do you really think she would say, "Sorry, but the answer is still "no?" unsure.gif

There's no question there will no shortage of male candidates squaring off in the wide-open race to replace Bush. It's almost a stone cold lock that Hillary is going to crash the boys club for the Democrats. Will Condoleeza do the same for the GOP?

The question for debate:

Would you want to see a Hillary Clinton versus Condoleeza Rice match-up in 2008 for the presidency? Why or why not?
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Beladonna
post Jan 27 2006, 06:18 PM
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Here's something interesting:

QUOTE
By a margin of three to one, Americans say they would "definitely" vote against Hillary Clinton for president, a CNN/Gallup poll released Tuesday has found.

While just 16 percent say they had made up their minds to back Clinton when she seeks the presidency in 2008, 51 percent say there's no way they want to see the former first lady back in the White House.


The information above is from Newsmax which is incredibly bias.

To be fair, I went digging to find this poll and low and behold here is the poll question and the data about Condi too:

CNN/USA Today/Gallop Poll. Jan. 20-22, 2006. N=928 registered voters nationwide. MoE 4.

QUOTE
"Next, I'm going to ask you about some people who may run for president in 2008. For each one, please tell me whether you will definitely vote for that person, whether you might consider voting for that person, or whether you will definitely not vote for that person. How about [see below]?"

Definitely  Vote For Might Consider  Voting For Definitely Not  Vote For Unsure 
....%........................%...................................%............................% 

....16.......................32...................................51............
................1.....Hillary
            .
....14.......................38...................................46............
................3.....Condi


It looks pretty darn even to me and pretty darn negative for both women.

Also, for the record I want to clarify something I posted earlier. I wrote:

QUOTE
For instance, she would allow for late term abortion only if life or health are at risk. I agree completely.


I believe Hillary believes in late term abortion only if life and health of the mother are at risk. I support late term abortion if the baby will have no quality of life. Let me explain further. If the child as a defect like anencephaly which means the baby will be born usually blind, deaf, unconscious, and unable to feel pain - in other words no quality of life, I would support ending the pregnancy.

If we are talking about the life or health of the mother, then I would support delivering the baby - not aborting it. I just had to get that off my chest. unsure.gif
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AuthorMusician
post Jan 27 2006, 10:15 PM
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Would you want to see a Hillary Clinton versus Condoleeza Rice match-up in 2008 for the presidency? Why or why not?

I really don't want to see it because the Demos have better potential candidates than Hillary and Condi isn't married. Never has been. There will be lots of speculation as to why this happened. Is she also a virgin? Will there be a medical examination? If she isn't, who were her men? What if she's (gasp) GAY???? Has she been celibate all these decades? What, is she frigid? From outer space? A robot? Maybe she was an abused child. Holy cow ohmy.gif

Hey, I know how banal this is. I just don't want to see it happen. What I want to see happen is the Republican bunch taken out and sent home, replaced by seriously concerned Democrats with solid, workable agendas.

The Hillary attacks don't bother me nearly as much as the potential trashing of Condi. I think that she's aware of this, and that's why she never has and never will run for public office. Hillary seems to enjoy the fight, she's married to a cad (so most can relate), a mother (proof positive), but I don't see her as all that good of a choice. Enough with the senators, let's nominate a governor. There'll probably be a wide field of choice after the 2006 elections, and judging by GWB, a poor governor is a lot better choice than an effective senator. Get an effective governor in there, and things might click.
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Paladin Elspeth
post Jan 28 2006, 06:17 AM
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Would you want to see a Hillary Clinton versus Condoleeza Rice match-up in 2008 for the presidency? Why or why not?

No. While I believe that women can be just as competent or incompetent as men are in positions of leadership, I do not want to see the contest for the Chief Executive position to become any more of a sideshow freakfest than it already is.

After all, it's not a cockfight, or a hen-fight in this case.

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Jan 28 2006, 06:20 AM
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nighttimer
post Jan 28 2006, 06:33 AM
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From a purely political perspective I would not support Hillary Clinton or Condoleeza Rice. Clinton has worked very hard to remake herself as a centrist Democrat. Despite your apprehensions, carlitoswhey, as a member of the Democratic Leadership Council, Clinton has been largely successful in crafting a record as a moderate as a U.S. Senator.

An unhedged supporter of the war in Iraq, Sen. Clinton stands at the hawkish, interventionist extreme of her party on foreign policy. Despite her pandering vote against CAFTA, she's a confirmed free-trader and deficit hawk. On the cultural issues that often undermine Democrats, she seeks common ground, sometimes with flat-earth conservatives like Rick Santorum, and has been nattering about the "tragedy" of abortion. Even Hillary's notorious government takeover of health care was misconstrued as an ultra-lib stance. In opting for a mixed, private-public managed-competition plan, the then-first lady was repudiating the single-payer model long favored by paleo-liberals. Her plan was flawed in many ways, but it wasn't what Ted Kennedy wanted.

http://www.slate.com/id/2123636/

The larger issue as I see it isn't whether Hillary should run for president. It's obvious that she will. The central point is what will it mean if a qualified woman can run---and win---the nation's highest elective office? I agree with Wertz that Hillary isn't my idea of what my liberal standard-bearer would be. However, if she could parlay her political clout all the way to the Oval Office some kind of rubicon would definitely be crossed. Even President Bush recently described Clinton as "formidable" as a potential 2008 presidential candidate.

And she certainly wouldn't appoint any Samuel Alitos to the Supreme Court.

I'm pretty sure Condoleeza Rice would. There is little doubt that she shares more than workouts with George W. Bush. Her political philosophy seems simpatico with that of her patron. I'm certainly not thrilled at the prospect of Condi being the heir apparent of the Bush legacy.

Which hasn't stopped the "draft Condi" movement from gearing up. I visited two websites supporting Dr. Rice in 2008. The sites are long on enthusiasm but short on specifics because after almost six years in the public eye, nobody knows much about where Rice stands on most of the issues of the day besides the war in Iraq.

But her stand on the issues aside, Condi Rice running for and actually winning the presidency would go a long way of shattering not one, but two glass ceilings. The first being that a woman can't win the White House and the second that a Black person couldn't accomplish the same goal.

Don't get me wrong. As a candidate, Rice might be a right-wingnut like Alan Keyes, but I kind of doubt it. The hope would be that she turns out to be a moderate, but there's nothing there to support that hope.

This is why I didn't list a third or a "opt out" option in the poll. The larger principle of what a Hillary Clinton or Condoleeza Rice victory in 2008 would mean, does not transcend what their personal views or positions are. From the view of someone who majored in Political Science, it's the prospect of two so well qualified candidates mixing it up on the world's biggest political stage that is so tantalizing.

After all, there's been enough horrible men who made it all the way to the White House. It's past time to change up the groove and try something a little different.

hmmm.gif

This post has been edited by nighttimer: Jan 28 2006, 06:50 AM
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Curmudgeon
post Jan 28 2006, 06:59 AM
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Would you want to see a Hillary Clinton versus Condoleezza Rice match-up in 2008 for the presidency? Why or why not?

No. I didn't even vote in the poll because you didn't give us an opportunity to say that I would first look at the third parties if the Republicans got their "dream ticket" on the ballot in 2008.

It may be true that "The worst kept secret in Washington is Senator Clinton wants to be president." However, as I don't live in Washington, I have to rely on what the news media reports. Both women have repeatedly said they have no plans or no interest in running for President in 2008. I have heard no Democrats seriously suggest such a match up. I have heard innumerable Republicans argue that Condy could easily beat Hillary. That hardly seems a good reason for the Democrats to vote for Hillary to head their ticket.

It is my understanding that the first time George W. Bush indicated an interest in being the President was when his friends pointed out to him that not running, he was already ahead in the polls. I am not really impressed though. with his leadership, his pride in being a "war president," ad nauseam.

I have yet to hear a Democratic pundit argue that Hillary is the best that we can offer the voters in '08. I have heard a great number of Republicans argue that this is the default race that we will be seeing in '08. I really don't feel that I have to go to the polls and vote for the Republican choice in the Democratic primary. I intend to vote for someone who says that he or she wants to be President, wants to run the country, and has a vision and a plan to do so.

If the only candidate the Republicans can field to mop up the mess George has made of Washington, the country, and the world is Condoleezza Rice, I will be very surprised. Forty-three white males have held the job, and I suspect the Republican Party has at least a few men that think (privately) that they can do a better job than Dubya...

This post has been edited by Curmudgeon: Jan 28 2006, 07:10 AM
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Borgen
post Feb 7 2006, 03:20 AM
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I decided a couple years back that I'd never vote for any democrat every again -- not for any office, and it doesn't matter who they're running -- So hillary's out.

On the other hand, I'd vote for Condoleeza Rice in a minute. More than that, I think she'd be a better than most of the GOP front-runners, and LOTS AND LOTS better than McCain or Guiliani -- For those two, I just stay home on election day.
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Doclotus
post Feb 7 2006, 09:28 PM
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Would you want to see a Hillary Clinton versus Condoleeza Rice match-up in 2008 for the presidency? Why or why not?
Not at all. I don't view either one of them favorably. While I respect what they've accomplished as women in a predominantly male world (politics), I don't respect who they are or what they do. Hillary strikes me as someone seeking power for the sake of power, and that person I will always reject outright.

Conde has her own issues, not the least of which is her ability to lie to protect her boss.

I can't say that either one is particularly appealing as a presidential candidate.
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VDemosthenes
post Feb 16 2006, 01:21 AM
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QUOTE(nighttimer @ Jan 23 2006, 08:19 PM)
Would you want to see a Hillary Clinton versus Condoleeza Rice match-up in 2008 for the presidency?  Why or why not?
*




Not really. I don't really think that the world abroad is ready for a female president (and, though I have no real love for Clinton, I don't think her talents should be wasted on a world that isn't really prepared). I am more inclined to think that Rice will run in 2,012 and not touch 2,008 with a ten foot pole. I would love to see Clinton and Kerry clash in the Democratic primaries and have that one resolved quickly but I at this time I cannot say that a 2,008 cat fight would help anyone.



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Borgen
post Feb 17 2006, 12:19 PM
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QUOTE(VDemosthenes @ Feb 15 2006, 07:21 PM)
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Jan 23 2006, 08:19 PM)
Would you want to see a Hillary Clinton versus Condoleeza Rice match-up in 2008 for the presidency? Why or why not?
*




Not really. I don't really think that the world abroad is ready for a female president (and, though I have no real love for Clinton, I don't think her talents should be wasted on a world that isn't really prepared). I am more inclined to think that Rice will run in 2,012 and not touch 2,008 with a ten foot pole. I would love to see Clinton and Kerry clash in the Democratic primaries and have that one resolved quickly but I at this time I cannot say that a 2,008 cat fight would help anyone.
*




The thing is, 2012 is not so much of an option --- sort of like eating a day-old donut. Whoever wins in '08 is not only the likely candidate in in 2012, they are also the likely winner. I think Condoleeza Rice is a blue ribbon candidate, and I'd hate to waste top quality in an impossible to win challenge, if a dem wins in '08.

And of course if the GOP wins in '08, then there's no real chance for any republican for 8 years.
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Curmudgeon
post Apr 30 2006, 06:30 AM
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Would you want to see a Hillary Clinton versus Condoleeza Rice match-up in 2008 for the presidency?

Emphatically Not!

Why not?


As Pete Hoekstra, our local man in Congress put it: If Congress wants to do any business this year, it will have to be before the November Election, because after that every politician in Washington will be thinking about the Presidential Election in 2008.

More to the point, this Clinton versus Condoleeza Rice match-up seems to be a way for the talking heads on TV to avoid backing the wrong horse. Everyone has agreed on two "party favorites" that don't seem to have any real backing... I think the Republicans would love to see the Democrats nominate Hillary Clinton, then have their own convention where the train gets derailed. Condie would decline, fall ill, get shot, or simply fall victim to a floor revolt where Jeb Bush or "Heckuva Job Brownie" gets nominated... I suspect most Republicans would feel quite convinced that any male candidate could easily defeat Hillary...

Reality check time for the Republicans may not come until November, but I just printed out two copies of the Local Board of Education. There is an election on Tuesday and people are ready to "Throw the bums out." The Board of Education likely has no responsibility for High Gas Prices, High unemployment, the National Debt, the wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, or the War in Planning in Iran... They could have installed hot water when they remodeled the schools. They could have held on to janitors and bus drivers instead of contracting the work out. They could have done many things differently. Their major crime this year is that they are incumbents...

If the local sentiment is any indication, it is a year when many politicians will end the year unemployed. At that point, Republicans and Democrats alike; will likely hand out primary nominating petitions to any candidate who is willing to risk his career and credibility on a run for fame and glory. Until then, the talking heads will try to convince us that a Clinton-Rice run-off is a fait accompli. Unless the economy turns around, the wars end, the price of gas drops below a $1.00/gallon, and businessmen learn that Americans too are willing to work; by December, the proposed all female Presidential race will be a footnote in history.
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