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> Empathy in Politics, Addressing a question thats commonly asked especially during elections
net2007
post Oct 31 2020, 10:15 AM
Post #1


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Happy Halloween Americas Debate!

So I saw a question on Quora.com recently where a member asked the following....

QUOTE
"Are Liberals (Democrats) more empathetic than Conservatives (Republicans)? It seems like Liberals are more interested in the common good for everyone, while Conservatives are more interested in personal wealth and safety."


https://www.quora.com/Are-Liberals-Democrat...alth-and-safety

This is an older question that I found so my answer is unlikely to stir much in the way of conversation on Quora. However, the assumption that was made in their question is very common so I think it's important to address. With that said, I thought I'd take this topic and bring it to a few different platforms for debate. Most of what you read below will be the answer I gave on Quora but I've adapted it some to be more relevant here. True to America's Debate tradition I'll also follow things up with a few questions at the bottom.

So are Liberals (Democrats) more empathetic than Conservatives (Republicans)?

To give my own perspective here, I don't see any evidence of this. Despite how divisive things have gotten, I don't think that most people have an inability to empathize with others. Liberals and conservatives often have different ways of approaching problems but we also face many of the same struggles. With that said, it's not impossible to relate to others in political discussions.

There's no shortage of unfair and shallow-minded people on both sides of the political aisle but I'd consider that the most divisive amongst us tend to be the most vocal and tend to get the most attention because of it.

The idea that conservatives have trouble empathizing or are prone to bigotry is not only common, it's even emphasized in our elections. We could point to a number of policy stances where the right and Republicans have focused on more than economics or "safety", such as school choice, opportunity zones, and prison reform but the idea that conservatives are unempathetic is a character argument first and foremost.

During election seasons, Democrat politicians, strategists, and media pundits have gone to these types of character arguments for a long time and this has only amplified under the Trump administration. In fact, from what I can tell their number one strategy right now goes something like this...
  • Trump is unempathetic, rude, and even bigoted so vote for Joe Biden because he's a safe, mature, and moral alternative to the president.
Frankly, I think criticizing Trump over his tone is perfectly understandable. I believe most people understand that he can get carried away with his rhetoric. He's very blunt and has said things before that have added fuel to the fire. Having said that, I worry that many Americans don't understand exactly how divisive Democrats can be and I'm not just talking about left-wing extremists and protesters who go too far. I'm talking about the leadership in the Democratic party and that includes Joe Biden.

This isn't a one-sided problem so to gain a clear perspective requires looking at the words and actions of both the left and right. The question is, do conservatives really stand out when it comes to lacking empathy? Personally, I don't believe so. While I think most liberals in the general public are willing to show an interest in the "common good" and express empathy, the radical left and Democrat politicians often don't.

So to get to the heart of this topic, if I were to include moderate liberals, classical liberals, the far left, and Democrats, we're obviously talking about a mixed bag of individuals. However, the far left and Democrats who are in positions of power or influence have...
  • On numerous topics and on numerous occasions, accused conservatives of exactly the same type of behavior that they exhibit on a regular basis.
Why is this important?

If we were to think about this in simple terms, it'd be important to establish what empathy is. Unlike the word sympathy, the word empathy implies that we not only feel emotions for another person but we feel for them because we can relate to their struggles. In fact, the definition of empathy is...

QUOTE
The ability to understand and share the feelings of another.


With that considered, projection is quite different. It's probably the polar opposite of empathy because those who project usually aren't concerned about others because they can relate to them, they condemn others because they assume or act as if their own problems relate to others.

So the words projection and empathy are fairly similar, the primary difference is that when someone projects, it usually comes with a condemnation of others and doesn't require that they actually "share" anything with those who are being condemned. This makes projection particularly relevant in conversations about empathy.

  • For Substantiation


If anyone finds it hard to believe that projection is commonplace on the radical left and with Democrats who are in positions of power or influence, consider some of the following examples...
  • Recently Joe Biden and Kamala Harris refused to answer whether or not they'd pack the supreme court. The left-wing of the Democratic party has been pushing for court-packing so there's reason to believe this idea is, at a minimum, tempting to the Biden campaign. Either way, Biden and Harris have gotten backlash for not giving a clear answer on court-packing. The way Democrats handled this was by simply claiming that Trump and Republicans are the ones who are court-packing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWXGnkfj3dc

Joe Biden isn't alone either, many Democrats are now accusing Republicans of court-packing. For example, Senator Dick Durbin said the following...

QUOTE
"The American people have watched the Republicans packing the court for the past three and a half years,"


https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-sh...-the-past-three

The members at ad.gif are experienced so I wouldn't doubt most of the members here understand this already but for informational purposes, Republicans are filling vacancies to the Supreme Court for existing open seats. Court-packing is the act of increasing the number of seats on a court. Imagine if a football game were to end with the score 14 -17 and someone decided to come along and add a 5th quarter to the game to give the losing team a chance to catch up. Essentially that's what Democrats have been suggesting when they talk about court-packing.

For more examples of projection...
  • Generally speaking, the states with the highest unemployment rates today are blue states with Democrat governors. This is due primarily to Covid-19 shutdowns. We can have a fair debate about shutdowns, at a minimum I think we should continue to be careful. However, the states with the highest Covid-19 death rates are also generally blue states with Democrat governors. Yet numerous Democrat politicians are pointing almost solely at Trump for any bad news or statistic in relation to Covid-19. Some of the scrutiny being directed at Trump is warranted so I think this would come across differently if they were saying that Trump should share in taking responsibility but many prominent Democrats aren't saying that.
Covid-19 statistics are a very involved topic, I started gathering information on them months ago when I writing a reply to Julian's Covid topic here and a bit prior to that. I never finished that reply but since that time I've learned a lot so if anyone wants me to elaborate on the arguments I made in the last bullet point, I'd be happy to. For now, I'll share one last example of projection in our national politics because this example will be a bit involved...
  • In relation to the Ukraine, Biden was accused of a quid pro quo and within a year Trump was being accused of a quid pro quo with the same exact country, an accusation that eventually led to Democrats impeaching Trump.
To go over this story some...

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/201...prosecutor.html

Originally, it was the following quote from Joe Biden that caught the public's attention...

QUOTE
"I looked at them and said: I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. (Laughter.) He got fired."


https://youtu.be/_jyT1rnW9fA

The prosecutor that Biden is referring to was Viktor Shokin who happened to be investigating Burisma Holdings which is a major Ukrainian natural gas producer. For informational purposes, Hunter Biden served on the board of Burisma Holdings and they were under investigation for corrupt business practices.

This story has recently resurfaced due to leaked emails that reference both Joe Biden and his son Hunter and due to Tony Bobulinski, a whistleblower who was a former Biden business associate.
As far as the Trump quid pro quo narrative is concerned, it became national news almost immediately, even in the first few days when all we had to go on was the complaint of an anonymous whistleblower who only had secondhand knowledge. Additionally, some of those who supported this narrative criticized anyone who wanted Trump's whistleblower's name to be publicized and that remained the case well into the impeachment hearings. The New York Times was even scrutinized for releasing information.

New York Times criticized for publishing details about whistleblower...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-n...blower-n1059331

On the other hand, the Biden quid pro quo story has been treated quite differently. A lot of people who are in positions of power and influence, don't want to talk about this even with a whistleblower who has publically and voluntarily come forward with information. In my opinion, based on Joe Biden's 2018 comment alone, this has the appearance of a quid pro quo even without Bobulinski recently coming forward. Some Democrats have argued that this wasn't a quid pro quo because Joe Biden wasn't the only one who wanted investigator Shokin fired but given Biden's son was on the same board that was being investigated for corruption, I think this should be looked at because that gives Biden a motive to fire Shokin that others wouldn't have had.

The primary evidence that was used to target Trump was a phone call that he made with President Zelenskyy. Other than that, it was mostly hearsay testimony. Here's the Trump/Zelenskyy phonecall transcript from NBC news...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/trump-impe...sident-n1058581

If anyone can point out something as clear and obvious as Joe Biden saying...

QUOTE
"I looked at them and said: I'm leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you're not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. (Laughter.) He got fired."


I'm willing to listen. Personally, given the timing of this and lack of interest in looking deeper into accusations against Biden, I believe Democrats were projecting and perhaps even focused on a Trump quid pro quo narrative to divert attention away from Joe Biden. Either way, I will say this much. Projection happens a lot in politics and both Democrats and Republicans have been guilty of it. In fact, both political parties have a range of problems. I happen to believe projection is one of the Democratic party's greatest problems but I also think that should be open for debate as well.

So I want to be clear here. My argument isn't that most Democrats and left of center Americans blame others for their problems or that divisive rhetoric is what defines Democrats Trump also lacks empathy in key areas and frequently speaks out of his rear end. However, the stereotype that conservatives lack empathy when compared to the left is little more than misinformation and that's my primary point.

To move on and switch focus some...

Lacking empathy or talking past others in political discussions is behavior that can spread to civilians who have taken what corrupt politicians and media pundits say at face value. Although I think most people are far more concerned about the everyday struggles they face rather political drama, the problem is that the more someone gets involved in politics, the more they get exposed to those who set out to divide or indoctrinate.

I want to share just three personal exchanges I've had on Quora to illustrate what this can do. This is about more than projection, sometimes being outright disrespectful or having a conversation where the arguments of others are completely disregarded can also show a lack of empathy, and again I don't believe these behaviors are exclusive to the political right.

As a side note, despite the lack of activity at ad.gif these days, political discussions are still very much alive online although many of them aren't very civil or insightful...
  • Example 1
https://www.quora.com/Who-tends-to-be-right...chard-St-John-7

This conversation started with me responding to the answer of a conservative member on Quora. More or less, I agreed with his points. I didn't resort to personal attacks but was critical of the left and didn't mince words about it so this attracted the attention of a member who repeated and defended numerous left-leaning positions and talking points. Take a look at the discussion that's linked above to judge for yourself if they were effective at communicating their beliefs but to give you a brief summary.

My use of the term "pro-abortion" was condemned and characterized as "libelous" yet this member repeatedly made rude, condescending, and hypocritical remarks that seemed to get worse with each passing reply. To quote some of his rhetoric, he had the following things to say...

QUOTE
"I want to be very clear here: Your claim is blatantly false if not libelous. Oh, and screw you."

"I had to laugh at that. Really, are you that unobservant?"

"Thanks for wasting another of my Saturday mornings."

"Get a life, dude."


I found this a bit amusing because these comments were coming from someone who expressed concern over how I was framing abortion. I disagreed with most of his points and engaged in some banter of my own in this conversation but also repeatedly gave credit to liberals where I felt it was due and gave olive branches where I felt I could. For example, here's some of what I said to try to reach some middle ground with him...

QUOTE
"I can understand some wanting to use the term fetus, particularly at an early developmental stage."

"I'm not against abortion in extreme circumstances"

"The problem isn't so much with the women who have had an abortion"

"I have no doubt that there are well-meaning Democrats and liberals or ones who will be straight forward and honest about abortion."

"There are many legitimate criticisms that should be made when conservatives do something wrong"


He absolutely would not reciprocate and short of me agreeing with him or becoming pro-choice I have doubts that he would have. I'm fine with a heated discussion but when a person is held up to standards that aren't being met by the other participant in the conversation, it calls into question their sincerity. Talking about empathy is easy and pointing towards others when it's felt that they made an unfair or libelous statement, is also very easy. Checking our own behaviors to see if we're living up to any expectations that are placed on others, I believe is much more difficult and also more rare than it should be in political discussions.

Again, anyone here is more than welcome to read these exchanges to judge for themselves if I'm giving a fair characterization of them. This is just to share some of my personal experiences to go along with some of the articles and videos I shared previously.
  • Example 2
https://www.quora.com/Are-conservatives-les...nswer/Al-Nelson

In response to the question... Are conservatives less creative than liberals? a member on Quora gave the following answer...

QUOTE
"Yes. The science is clear.
Conservatives are less open to new experiences, more fearful, less tolerant, require more structure, hierarchy and organization. They value tradition, constancy, familiarity. They resist change, innovation, experimentation."


Given I'm very interested in science, I was willing to dive in deep on this topic. I wasn't convinced by most of his claims and had a different perspective to share in many ways but in this conversation, I said very little to stir the pot. I even started pulling up sources that supported his arguments but by the end of it, all he had to contribute was a short, rude, and sarcastic paragraph...

QUOTE
"Man, save yourself thousands of words. I have worked in creative fields my whole life, as a creative and managed departments of creatives in entertainment, recruited, evaluated them, studied the science and reality of it. No **** (Ben Shapiro) firehose of blah, blah, blah will undo 50 years of hands-on experience in art, music, TV, film and video games. BTW, you do not want to use those images to portray creativity, they are the other thing."


For informational purposes, the images he's referencing in that quote are of some of my mother's artwork. I presented pictures like these to show creativity on behalf of those who aren't liberal...

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-021aa...50feeab0544fb8c

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-49b67...1a5a3c8b846e7c1

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9a49c...1d42762e776052f

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3630d...90b47d8dd21da0d


My primary argument was that the left and right often simply differ in some of their creative interests. I also think that political beliefs can also be very irrelevant to creativity. Overall, A LOT of statistical information and scientific studies were presented in this conversation so I still think it's well worth a read. I just wish I could have kept him engaged in the discussion longer because we shared at least one creative hobby.
  • Example 3
I'll just go over this one briefly...

https://www.quora.com/Why-do-conservatives-...ael-Matthews-60

In this example, there wasn't much in the way of substance. This member flat out agreed that she was discriminating against conservatives although she justified that by characterizing all conservatives as infants who think unacceptable behavior is okay...

QUOTE
"half of the country's politics being divided between infants and professors. Why would anyone argue with an infant?"

"Yeah I discriminate against groups that think unacceptable behavior is okay."


This is very interesting in relation to the topic of projection or hypocrisy because if someone dehumanizes an entire race, gender, or political group, then almost any behavior would become justifiable. That may be, in part, why some people exhibit behavior that they condemn others for, they view their political opposition as morally inferior. Consider that if someone genuinely believes that another group is outright fascistic, it can go a long way to diminish their incentive for treating them fairly or with respect.

A lot of people do characterize conservatives as generally unempathetic, unintelligent, bigoted, or a combination of the three. Particularly those who are in a position of power or influence and these stereotypes of conservatives are pressed during election seasons with absolute determination.

So to wrap this up

Election day is almost here and many people are confident that Joe Biden is a safe, mature, and empathetic alternative to the president. This, above anything else, may win Biden the election. Is Trump empathetic? I think we could all point to examples where he hasn't been but again I think if the character traits of opposing political parties are being assessed, it'd be important to look at both sides.

Nearly every unappealing thing that Trump says becomes mainstream news. On the other hand, the primary argument being made against Biden appears to be that he lacks mental acuity. Personally, I think Biden's temperament and capacity for empathy should also be a topic. This is frequently overlooked but it's not uncommon for Biden to become emotional or lose his temper when he's challenged or can't answer a question.

Joe Biden...
  • Called a young woman on the campaign trail a 'lying dog-faced pony soldier" and this was someone who was likely listening to Biden's speech because she was considering voting for him. This happened at one of his events after a simple question was asked.
  • Biden called another man a "a damn liar" and what sounded like the word "fat". Although Biden denies he used the word fat, it's clear that he lost his temper regardless. Biden even challenged this man to do pushups so it's not hard to believe that what sounded like the word fat was indeed Joe Biden body shaming a senior citizen.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/12/06/joe-bid...-voter-fat.html
  • Biden told a young black man who was considering voting for him that "if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or Trump, then you ain't black"
  • Biden said "You can't go to a 7-Eleven or a Dunkin' Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent" and then said, "I'm not joking".
This barely scratches the surface, it's an ongoing problem for Biden that appears to be intensifying with time.
  • Very recently when Joe Biden was asked about his position on court-packing, he went as far as to reply that voters "don't deserve" to know where he stands.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andrewsolender...rt-packing/amp/
  • Again, very recently, Joe Biden said "we don't do things like those chumps out there with the microphone are doing, the Trump guys. It's about decency" "we have to come together"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5qTv62BTO8

This last example highlights the assumption that Biden has an empathetic character. Biden himself has used slogans such as...

QUOTE
"Make America Moral Again"


and has said...

QUOTE
"We're in a fight for the soul of America."


But is he living up to those standards? For me, Biden saying that "we have to come together" in the same sentence where he's calling his political opponent's "chumps" speaks for itself.
Biden's temper and mental acuity problems have been severe enough for his campaign staff to alow or perhaps encourage him to use a teleprompter to answer questions. Teleprompters are typically used to give prepared speeches so there are many reasons to be concerned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eD6MnMYj3Cs...eature=youtu.be

Most of us have a degree of bias, myself included so the information I shared here is just to help fill in the blanks some. Personally, my experience has been that the far left and Democrat politicians have characterized conservatives as bigoted and unempathetic for a LONG time so it's not surprising to me that many of them have lacked empathy for conservatives for a LONG time. Between that, how the Senate treated Brett Kavanagh during hearings, and the ongoing violent rioting, etc. etc. I don't see the evidence that conservatives are lacking in empathy, at least not by comparison to any other major political group.

As chaotic as things have gotten, I still think that most Americans can empathize with their political opponents but it's rough out there. The little insults and stabs that some people take are one thing. What worries me the most is the sheer amount of misinformation and false narratives that are taken at face value, particularly by those who are just becoming active in politics. There's usually a lot more going on than what can be learned by hearing one opinion or set of facts and unfortunately no shortage of individuals who will cover one set of facts as if they end the debate or can't be challenged. Belief systems can take many years to develop and when a bad idea is learned from a very young age as part of that belief system, it can be nearly impossible to reverse. If someone grows to believe that a particular political party or movement cares about "the common good for everyone" often they'll be willing to overlook inconsistencies and problems within that movement. Politicians know this and use it to their advantage. Journalists and veteran political debaters know also know this so I believe there's a danger of indoctrination that can't be understated.

Questions for Debate....

1. "Are Liberals (Democrats) more empathetic than Conservatives (Republicans)?"

2. Do you believe Americans are generally unempathetic towards those with opposing political viewpoints?

3. Does the news media and social media give a poor representation of the mindset of your average American?

4. How important is character in a politician and are there any specific character traits that you view as most important?

Bonus: Who are you voting for and why?

This post has been edited by net2007: Oct 31 2020, 09:12 PM
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droop224
post Nov 1 2020, 01:21 AM
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QUOTE
https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-sh...-the-past-three

The members at ad.gif are experienced so I wouldn't doubt most of the members here understand this already but for informational purposes, Republicans are filling vacancies to the Supreme Court for existing open seats. Court-packing is the act of increasing the number of seats on a court. Imagine if a football game were to end with the score 14 -17 and someone decided to come along and add a 5th quarter to the game to give the losing team a chance to catch up. Essentially that's what Democrats have been suggesting when they talk about court-packing.


I want to debate court packing on a separate debate, but this is a prime example of why its so hard to debate conservatives. Twilight Zone. Republicans have gone a complete 180 from what they said just 4 years ago. It doesn't matter. A Republican does not need to be fair, their constituency care only that they think they are "winning".

Lets get to this debate, welcome back Net.
QUOTE
So are Liberals (Democrats) more empathetic than Conservatives (Republicans)?


Here is my issue, you got enough wiggle room in here to mix and match to make your point.

Individuals. As individuals your political party won't determine your level of compassion to people you know or your level of generosity to people you don't know. It's impossible to answer.

Politicians. Well again a politician is an individual. You can easily find a Republican that did something compassionate and a Democrat that did something horrific.

It's cherry picking heaven and one thing about you Net you LOVE to cherry pick!!

But if we look at the politics and the policies supported by Democrats vs Republicans, like: "You're either with us or against us!!" Would that be more of a policy espoused and supported by Conservatives or Liberals? War, killing a bunch of Human Beings, liberals or Conservatives?? Free health care for human beings?? Liberals or Conservatives?

Oh I got one. Trick question, "Stealing... from the rich!!" Conservative or Liberal? Compassionate or not? aaaaaaggghhh!!

See due to the immense rationalization abilities of the Conservative it's difficult proceed in this debate earnestly. See Conservatives live the code "if we do it and we think we should... it's good!! But if you do it and we don't want you to....it's bad"

9/11/2001 killed 3,000 Americans. How many human beings have died as a result of our actions? Is the number proportionate? But here comes good ol Conservative rationalization process. "How many human beings would die if we don't act?" How is this answered? The answer: However the conservative wants. They can make any number they want. They'll probably bring up the holocaust.

I've had debates on this board with Conservatives that have argued that dropping NUKES on Japan was the more compassionate option because the other option would have to be kill millions.

I mean as a group, a political platform, what are the compassionate political programs/platforms that conservatives(Republicans) stand for that liberals(Democrats) stand against? Excluding abortion, name just three(3).

Edited to add:

Do you conservatives on this board know about "Republican Jesus"

2. Do you believe Americans are generally unempathetic towards those with opposing political viewpoints?

Depends how you spin it. I am generally unempathetic to political viewpoints that say we need to protect the wealth of the richest 5% of Americans. While i don't agree on Conservative views on abortions, i am empathetic to those political view.

3. Does the news media and social media give a poor representation of the mindset of your average American?

No. Except Fox News. They are awful.

4. How important is character in a politician and are there any specific character traits that you view as most important? I'll say it should be important.

Bonus: Who are you voting for and why? Biden. because I am anti-Trump. Trump isn't the devil, he's a Human being like the rest of us. We all have a little of Trump's personality in each of us, and its the worst part of us.



This post has been edited by droop224: Nov 1 2020, 05:28 AM
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net2007
post Nov 4 2020, 03:08 AM
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Droop I'll get you a reply here in a few days or less. Good luck tonight, the race looks tight.
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droop224
post Nov 5 2020, 07:56 PM
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QUOTE(net2007 @ Nov 3 2020, 09:08 PM) *
Droop I'll get you a reply here in a few days or less. Good luck tonight, the race looks tight.

Well take your time. Meanwhile we having a Democratically elected President calling for votes to no longer be counted because he was winning... See Republicans are cool with this... but they can't believe the dastardly Hillary Clinton having an email server that she received emails from the State Department.


Edited to add: Let me correct myself. The President only want to stop counting votes... in the States he is losing. If we stop counting all together we can all go home, the election is over. What kind of person votes for this type of person to lead us?


This post has been edited by droop224: Nov 5 2020, 07:57 PM
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entspeak
post Nov 6 2020, 03:08 PM
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1. "Are Liberals more empathetic than Conservatives?"

No. Iíve seen a lack of empathy from both. Is it equally so? I canít answer that question. Unfortunately, it seems like the unempathetic ones have the loudest voices - and shock value is sensational and drives social media and the news.

2. Do you believe Americans are generally unempathetic towards those with opposing political viewpoints?

No. Perhaps, Iím being overly optimistic, but again, I feel the unempathetic voices are in the minority, but are the loudest.

3. Does the news media and social media give a poor representation of the mindset of your average American?

Yes. Conflict seems to be where the media sits right now- they thrive on it, it makes the money. Itís one of the biggest problems for discourse in this country. Everyone wants to be a talking head.

4. How important is character in a politician and are there any specific character traits that you view as most important?

Character is important. Integrity is vital - it is also hard to find in many politicians on both sides of the aisle. Biden is not the bastion of integrity, but Trump is the antithesis of it. His behavior at the moment exemplifies that.

Bonus: Who are you voting for and why?

Biden. Because heís not Trump. This election, IMO, has been less a repudiation of Republican conservatism (look at the down ballot) and more a repudiation of Trump - and deservedly so.

Trump is not the devil, but he is a narcissist and, I would argue, a sociopath (at best). He is not good for democracy - heís made that abundantly clear over the last few days.

This post has been edited by entspeak: Nov 6 2020, 03:13 PM
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droop224
post Nov 6 2020, 04:13 PM
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QUOTE(droop224 @ Nov 5 2020, 01:56 PM) *
QUOTE(net2007 @ Nov 3 2020, 09:08 PM) *
Droop I'll get you a reply here in a few days or less. Good luck tonight, the race looks tight.

Well take your time. Meanwhile we having a Democratically elected President calling for votes to no longer be counted because he was winning... See Republicans are cool with this... but they can't believe the dastardly Hillary Clinton having an email server that she received emails from the State Department.


Edited to add: Let me correct myself. The President only want to stop counting votes... in the States he is winning. If we stop counting all together we can all go home, the election is over. What kind of person votes for this type of person to lead us?

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post Nov 19 2020, 05:41 AM
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1. "Are Liberals (Democrats) more empathetic than Conservatives (Republicans)?"

My personal experience says no but one side puts considerable effort into making a public spectacle of it.

2. Do you believe Americans are generally unempathetic towards those with opposing political viewpoints?

The rise of cynical and jaded reactions might be the result of a polarized environment.

3. Does the news media and social media give a poor representation of the mindset of your average American?

Yes. I think the best description was found here describing how there are fiefdoms which are nothing more than echo chambers.

4. How important is character in a politician and are there any specific character traits that you view as most important?

The character of a person while important is not the defining feature of a successful movement. Ron Paul and Tulsi Gabbard have illustrated politics is a group sport and not an individual one. Both had careers which were tolerated at best and outright extinguished when the time was right.

Bonus: Who are you voting for and why?

As an outsider I cannot participate. I can only watch.

The why part will take a little more to elaborate on. I will root for the side that reveals and roots out corruption. I would side with the incumbent in this case because he is a lightning rod for criticism and much has been revealed about the media and intelligence agencies during this presidency!

I started constructing a flow chart of how and when empathy was employed in the modern era and it was a surprisingly messy endeavor. It is revealing but not particularly pithy. The parties employ empathy differently as their priorities are different. Big surprise not so much. If you want more detail just ask.

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droop224
post Nov 19 2020, 06:43 AM
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QUOTE(Trouble)
I started constructing a flow chart of how and when empathy was employed in the modern era and it was a surprisingly messy endeavor. It is revealing but not particularly pithy. The parties employ empathy differently as their priorities are different. Big surprise not so much. If you want more detail just ask.
Would love to see it, so i am asking.
QUOTE
The why part will take a little more to elaborate on. I will root for the side that reveals and roots out corruption. I would side with the incumbent in this case because he is a lightning rod for criticism and much has been revealed about the media and intelligence agencies during this presidency!
Well i'll give President Trump this much, he absolutely revealed corruption.

QUOTE
My personal experience says no but one side puts considerable effort into making a public spectacle of it.
I think that's the point if we are insinuating politics.
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droop224
post Nov 27 2020, 10:31 PM
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Is this thing on? unsure.gif mrsparkle.gif
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Mrs. Pigpen
post Nov 28 2020, 08:38 PM
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QUOTE(droop224 @ Nov 27 2020, 06:31 PM) *
Is this thing on? unsure.gif mrsparkle.gif


It is, Droop. laugh.gif
I can only speak for myself, but lately I've "progressed" from talking about politics to just staring.
In gobsmacked speechless amazement.
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net2007
post Nov 30 2020, 04:46 AM
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QUOTE(droop224 @ Nov 27 2020, 05:31 PM) *
Is this thing on? unsure.gif mrsparkle.gif


Yea, I've just done a very bad job on giving timelines. I'm finally done with the reply I'm writing for you for the most part but I still need to read it so I can do a spell check, make sure the links are positioned in the right spots, and perhaps see if there's something I can remove to shorten things just a bit. This will be a very long reply.

I'm confident I'll be finished either late tomorrow or on Tuesday, knock on wood.

This post has been edited by net2007: Nov 30 2020, 04:49 AM
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Trouble
post Yesterday, 05:02 AM
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QUOTE
Would love to see it, so i am asking.


I apologize droop224 for the tardiness. I haven't been ignoring you. I've been doing battle with Canada Post. They been leading me around in circles as this subject has really branched off in ways I had not anticipated and the books I have ordered have been out of print a good long while.

For example I initially tried to argue at the individual level and for every example there was a counter. I looked at the empathy in genetics as a inheritable trait. While interesting it didn't address the more group oriented leanings of the authour's thread. I looked into the modern parlance of the psychologists of the day and the result was they danced around the issue magnificently.

What I can say is that empathy cannot and should not be isolated in itself as it follows a package of emotions depending on who is evoking and whom is receiving. Then watch as empathy changes over time.

So for my seat of the pants assessment based on life experience,

Empathy was expressed more often to figures on the left than the right. You are less likely to get a direct answer from one side than the other but that of itself might be due to lack of knowledge and humility rather than outright apathy. Conversely, a more left leaning person is much more likely to engage in a "what if" question which is not always a good thing if the question is out of the depth of the person in question. For debate purposes let's take the worst case, is it better to encounter a sincerely apathetic person who honestly expresses themselves and honestly expresses a position that is not to your liking verses say, a person who very receptive but later is revealed to be quite the fibber? And to make things just a little bit more complicated what if both situations are true?

What psychologists have found is the more a person expresses empathy the more likely they will express schadenfreude when someone who dissents from their view.

QUOTE
They found that those at the higher end of empathic concern were significantly more likely to want to stop the speech when the speaker was from the opposite party. Those at the higher end of empathic concern were even more likely to show schadenfreude for the injured student when the speaker was from the opposite party, being more likely to find it funny and amusing that the student was injured. So much for empathic concern!


In a nutshell if one side behaves badly, eventually the other side will too. Politics can become tribal after all. Once the world 'badly' is in effect all the other emotions mentioned above come into play. So we now have empathy and envy. Empathy and apathy. My personal favourite, empathy and exhaustion could be argued persuasively. The evolution is when empathy and antagonism come together and you see a discrepancy in power of who is on the receiving end and who is not. The pinnacle, empathy and loathing or ressentiment is where historical reading comes in. History gets interesting when we can honestly say X loathes Y but when looking at the evidence we find the Y had reason to loath X after being on the receiving end for something but not vice versa.

And therein begins my reading list as I'm finding the past was rich in ressentiment.
    Soren Kierkegaard - The Present Age, noting the 19th century incited much envy which made people consider themselves as equals yet still sought advantage over each other.
    Max Scheler, a German sociologist who made a salient observation of the time, "I can forgive everything, but not that you are - that you are what you are - that I am not what you are - indeed I am not you'. Think this guy had some insight on the current problems?
    Hannah Arendt whose concept of negative solidarity needs to be explored in a time of melting pot immigration patterns who are in an ossifying economy.
    Jean-Jacques Rousseau who wrote negatively of the modern economy what it does to the soul, becoming part of someone else' society and how to maintain autonomy in it
I'm sure I am missing others which have escaped scrutiny so far but I am always open to suggestions.
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