logo 
spacer
  

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

If you have an opinion, you should share it! Register Now!

America's Debate hosts the best in news, government, and political debate. Register now to take part in the most civil and constructive debate on the Internet. Join the community, and get ready to be challenged!

Click here to start

> Sponsored Links

Register to remove these ads!
> What Mitt Romney Thinks of Americans, Are You Part of the 47 Percent?
nighttimer
post Sep 18 2012, 02:24 AM
Post #1


*********
Advanced Senior Contributor

Sponsor
February 2007

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 4,660
Member No.: 504
Joined: February-16-03

Gender: Undisclosed
Politics: Undisclosed
Party affiliation: Undisclosed



Mother Jones magazine has a tape of Mitt Romney speaking to a room full of donors and he makes it pretty clear what he thinks about a good sized chunk of the American population:

QUOTE
There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that's an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax.

Romney went on: "[M]y job is is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives."


Questions for debate:

1. Will Romney's remarks impact the campaign in a positive or negative way or have no effect at all?

2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?

Bonus question: Are you part of the 47 percent Romney isn't worried about or the 53 percent he is?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
9 Pages V   1 2 3 > »   
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Paladin Elspeth
post Sep 18 2012, 02:49 AM
Post #2


*********
I want the 10th Doctor for President!

Sponsor
August 1, 2003

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 4,987
Member No.: 721
Joined: May-10-03

From: Between 2 Great Lakes
Gender: Female
Politics: Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



1. Will Romney's remarks impact the campaign in a positive or negative way or have no effect at all?

It will cause Democrats who have worked all or most of their lives to dislike Romney even more for his evident lack of respect and assumptions. I would like to think that it would cause independents or those who actually haven't made up their minds to consider just what a low opinion Romney holds for those who aren't in his corner, ideologically and monetarily.

2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?

No, I don't think Romney should apologize for his remarks if that is what he really thinks about Democrats and people who tend to vote for Obama. It is quite revealing, and sometimes it is hard to figure out just where Romney stands on an issue. It's time he was straight with the American public about his policies. That "trust me" stuff about how he would repair/reform the economy just doesn't wash. Does he have a real, workable plan or doesn't he? That's what he should talk about. We'll just deal with his prejudices against the "47 percent" as we see fit and let the chips fall where they may.

Bonus question: Are you part of the 47 percent Romney isn't worried about or the 53 percent he is?

Guess which one? The forty-seven percent, of course! I am sure Romney won't waste a second of his life worrying about the likes of me. If I need Romney in order to take personal responsibility for my life, then my life is already worthless. Fortunately, my life is pretty good, thanks to the medicine I can take because of the government and the disability that I have after paying into the system with the jobs I held over the decades.

Regarding this:

QUOTE(Romney)
There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what.

I would not vote for Obama "no matter what" (that's pretty damned broad), but it will be a cold day in Hell before I vote for the Romney/Ryan ticket with their attitudes and their dedication to gutting the very programs that allow me to stay alive.

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Sep 18 2012, 02:53 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Christopher
post Sep 18 2012, 04:13 AM
Post #3


********
Millennium Mark

Group: Members
Posts: 1,352
Member No.: 1,696
Joined: November-9-03

From: Phoenix AZ
Gender: Male
Politics: Independent
Party affiliation: Private



1. Will Romney's remarks impact the campaign in a positive or negative way or have no effect at all?

2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?

Bonus question: Are you part of the 47 percent Romney isn't worried about or the 53 percent he is? [/b]
[/quote]


No effect. I think the lines are drawn pretty much as you expect. Liberals to the left and Conservatives to the right. Independents are probably deciding which is the greater of two evils, economy vs culture war. Do I vote for a better economy but thereby empower the far right religious wingnuts who will claim mandate or choose personal freedom vs higher taxes and greater debt.
This election will be simple turnout probably, who is more motivated to go and vote in november.

Romney needs to stop apologizing for everything. Say what you mean and go down swinging. Both sides of the party have declared this election to be one choice vs the other so you cant back away now. You have both said it so go ahead republicrats, thunderdome time.

53 percent and I could really use that tax money to stay that way.

This post has been edited by Christopher: Sep 18 2012, 04:14 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Curmudgeon
post Sep 18 2012, 04:14 AM
Post #4


********
I am an unpaid protester!

Sponsor
August 1, 2003

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 1,197
Member No.: 729
Joined: May-14-03

From: Michigan
Gender: Male
Politics: Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



Questions for debate:

1. Will Romney's remarks impact the campaign in a positive or negative way or have no effect at all?


That likely depends in part on whether or not FOX viewers ever hear the remarks... Certainly somewhere in the FOX network heirarchy is someone who is aware that some of their viewers simply have the television turned on while they are looking online for a job lead and waiting for the ball game to start. I very much doubt that all of their viewers have an income over $200,000 per year. (Romney's concept of "middle class.") Current and MSNBC viewers heard nothing in those remarks that we didn't already suspect. Network television? You need cable or satellite service to see any television any more, and it is priced above what the poor can afford.

2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?

I would have recommended that he totally ignore the remarks and focus on his campaign. He chose instead to give the press the chance to listen to his explanation. I am told that he took three questions, which means that we will hear three brief questions and his (likely) three brief answers replayed frequently for the next 49 days. I suspect that he may use that as an excuse to further ignore the press. I am wondering as I respond to this. whether or not he will actually participate in all of the currently scheduled presidential debates. He seems to feel that the only people he is obligated to speak to are his donors. He has been nominated for President; yet only now, members of his party are starting to notice that Mitt Romney has been a "businessman*" more than he has been a politician. He appears to be highly prejudiced about people who are poorer than he is, and he feels that it is all their fault that they were born that way and chose to remain in poverty.

*I would choose the word executive to describe his "business experience." He "likes to fire people," and people from both sides are suggesting that he throw his campaign manager under the bus...but then he would need to either hire a new campaign manager or do the dirty work himself. The result, he is sending a message to Rich Republicans of, "I can make money by dismantling companies, but I can't manage a political campaign. That is why you should trust me to be able to run The United States. I intend to downsize everyone that is on welfare, Social Security, disability, etc., and trust that you can make a living selling high end goods to those of us who remain in The United States..."

He has said nothing to the effect of, "I also like to hire people."

Bonus question: Are you part of the 47 percent Romney isn't worried about or the 53 percent he is?

My response to that would be irrelevant. Mitt Romney will never persuade me that I have not taken personal responsibility for, and care of our lives.

There was a time decades ago when I was in a union shop working upwards of 84 hours a week at times. At the time, I used to pay a maximum amount of Social Security tax each year. I was offered a buyout package that was hard to refuse. I could retire early, accept a year's pay as a bonus and accept a pension that after I paid off my car loan, left me with a larger take home paycheck...or I could work forty hours a week for another ten years for a projected differential of ten cents more in my pension package for working the decade.

I worked over a period of thirty plus years in union shops with union members who nearly always voted straight Republican. (None of them voted for Gerald Ford.) I personally believe that personal income and circumstance have little to do with people's prejudices and political leanings. I have friends who buy lottery tickets because they wish they were rich enough to vote Republican. We have a friend who works at a resale shop. A couple weeks back, we paid for our purchase and then she noticed that she had failed to ring up an item. I had paid by debit card, and I did not want to charge 84 cents to the card. She paid for it out of her pocket. The next day, when we tried to repay her, she put the money in the till and rang it up as a donation. I listen to the Republican meme that half of the population pays no taxes, and I look at children, retirees, etc. As a parent, I know that I was always able to take a tax deduction to help defray the cost of raising a child. That amounted to an extra four or five dollars in my take home each week. So... My children therefore, had an effective negative tax rate.

We know a shop owner who has not paid herself for the past five years...

We were good friends with a restaurant owner who felt that lower taxes would possibly have allowed her to stay in business, but closed up shop rather than charging higher prices than her parents had charged.

When a small business owner quits to take a greeter job at Wal-Mart, will they vote for the "business party" or the "labor party" or will they report to work as scheduled on Election Day...

This post has been edited by Curmudgeon: Sep 18 2012, 04:37 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dingo
post Sep 18 2012, 07:34 AM
Post #5


**********
Elite Senior Contributor

Group: Members
Posts: 5,065
Member No.: 225
Joined: November-3-02

From: Monterey Bay, Calif.
Gender: Male
Politics: Independent
Party affiliation: Private



1. Will Romney's remarks impact the campaign in a positive or negative way or have no effect at all?
Well it definitely energizes their base. I drop by Free Republic, a conservative forum, from time to time to get their take on things and I haven't seen them as positively excited about anything since the pictures from Abu Ghraib were published. Sticking it to THEM is at heart what republican conservative politics is about.

2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?
Spin it but don't dwell on it. A good portion of the have-nots want to identify with the haves even if they can't be them. I learned that from the perennially #1 radio talk show, hosted by Rush Limbaugh.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
bambu
post Sep 18 2012, 09:36 AM
Post #6


*****
Century Mark

Group: Members
Posts: 142
Member No.: 12,549
Joined: May-2-12

From: Australia
Gender: Male
Politics: Moderate
Party affiliation: None



2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?

#####

Saw this on my 6pm news today, 90 minutes ago.

He also said, para: "I'd have more chance of being elected if I'd been born to Hispanic parents".

He said it all, it's all been aired now...no good trying to apologise, so he just has to go with it all.

Gotta capture the 'Hispanic vote' vote to win?

[YouTube "Viva Obama 2008" ]

This post has been edited by bambu: Sep 18 2012, 09:38 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AuthorMusician
post Sep 18 2012, 12:59 PM
Post #7


**********
Glasses and journalism work for me.

Sponsor
November 2003

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 6,377
Member No.: 297
Joined: December-1-02

From: Blueberry Hill
Gender: Male
Politics: Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



1. Will Romney's remarks impact the campaign in a positive or negative way or have no effect at all?

I suspect we'll be hearing more about this take on the citizens of the US of A as the election seasons heads toward its climax. I don't think it'll be taken positively.

2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?

No apology, but he should stand by them. How does he know that 47% of the adult population receives checks from the federal government? What are his sources of information? Are they reliable, and are his conclusions at all logical? Is he including defense contractors and nonprofits? How about the military? Who would be paying his salary should he become POTUS? Who has been paying Paul Ryan's salary most of his adult life?

Bonus question: Are you part of the 47 percent Romney isn't worried about or the 53 percent he is?

As a household, the 53% he thinks he can win but can't. For me it depends on how the freelancing goes for any particular year. I can honestly say that I haven't seen a government check, not physically and not electronically, since being laid off and drawing unemployment comp in 2001, and those checks, meager as they were, didn't last long. No extensions were available back then.

So since I don't collect federal money in any manner, I am also part of the 53% who can't stand Romney. However, I am also realistic enough to understand all it takes is a few bad breaks to send your sorry butt out on the street, homeless and destitute, resembling Aqua Lung after a few months. You know, assuming nobody kills you before the hair and beard grow out. Romney has no idea that this stuff happens all the time to very good people, not the lazy slobs he thinks we are.

He has a lot of nerve criticizing those people he threw into unemployment as well, but that's a more subtle situation he can wriggle out of like a slime slug.

In the end though, he and his campaign leaders grossly underestimate the intelligence of the current US voting public and horribly overestimate their own competence. These people are monumental screw-ups who made it through life by sucking onto the right sharks, not by the sweat of their brows or the power of their minds.

That became apparent with the RNC performance. What a cluster f*** that became. Reminded me of life in corporate America.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Raptavio
post Sep 18 2012, 01:43 PM
Post #8


*********
Advanced Senior Contributor

Group: Members
Posts: 3,515
Member No.: 10,458
Joined: April-27-09

From: Rosemount, MN
Gender: Male
Politics: Very Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



1. Will Romney's remarks impact the campaign in a positive or negative way or have no effect at all?

This is red meat for his base, actually, who, despite red states typically being the great receivers of federal tax money and the blue states typically being the great senders of federal tax money, insist on seeing themselves as the "productive" ones and all us blue state folks as the "leeches".

This will cement the opinions of those who already saw Romney as aloof, out of touch, and arrogant.

But it's the swing voters who matter, and I don't see this going well for Mitt amongst them. These are the people who might resent this sort of talk from a man who wants to be President of all Americans.

2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?

If he had a decent bone in his body he wouldn't have made those remarks, so suggesting he apologize for them on common decency grounds is moot.

Tactically? His best option is either to apologize if he can come up with a clever enough way to pull a "What I MEANT to say was..." -- otherwise, sweep it under the rug.

Doubling down like he did last night? Bad idea. Really bad idea.

Bonus question: Are you part of the 47 percent Romney isn't worried about or the 53 percent he is?

Both, depending on how you count it. I'm definitely not a voter Romney every stood a chance in perdition of courting. On the other hand I'm a hard working productive American who keeps a good job in the private sector, and definitely not a 'victim' who wants government 'handouts' (though I'd feel no shame in getting them should I wind up unemployed for a spell).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Amlord
post Sep 18 2012, 02:05 PM
Post #9


Group Icon

**********
The Roaring Lion

Sponsor

Group: Moderators
Posts: 5,884
Member No.: 572
Joined: March-4-03

From: Cleveland suburbs, OH
Gender: Male
Politics: Conservative
Party affiliation: Republican



1. Will Romney's remarks impact the campaign in a positive or negative way or have no effect at all?

I don't think they will have much of an effect.

These comments are reflective of how the race is actually going. There is a group of people in this country that don't pay taxes and so are not persuaded by a "keep taxes low" platform. Does anyone doubt this? I'm talking about working people and this same group is persuaded by the "tax the rich" divisiveness of the Obama campaign. There are people that believe that the rich don't pay their "fair share" despite the fact that the top 1% pays 36.7% of all federal income tax and the bottom 95% pays 41.3% of all federal income taxes. The rich pay a higher share of the total tax, a higher percentage of their income and generally more than most people think.

At the same time, there is a group of people who are dependent on the government and the Obama campaign is doing its best to scare these people into believing that Republicans want to end every safety net program that exists, which is patently false. The Republican message is that it is better to have a job than to not have a job.

That's pretty much it. The message is that if we can help business owners, then these business owners will expand and give people jobs. It isn't convincing to some people.

Let's not forget that this "47%" are people WITH jobs that pay NO federal income taxes. It isn't unemployed people.

2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?

Apologize for what? For saying out loud that there are free loaders in this country who have a job and pay no income tax? To admit that there are people that won't vote for him under any circumstances? To admit that not everyone has the same vision for this country?

Apologize for what, exactly?

People vote in their self interest. Give them stuff ("free" healthcare, extended unemployment benefits, less contributions to their retirement plan for the same benefits) and they will vote for you.

Bonus question: Are you part of the 47 percent Romney isn't worried about or the 53 percent he is?

I am part of the 53%. I have a job, I pay income taxes. I don't pay a particularly high percentage of my income to federal income taxes (around 7.5% on my gross income). I want my government to get spending under control. I want a balanced budget. I don't want the house of cards to fall as it has in Greece.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
vsrenard
post Sep 18 2012, 02:15 PM
Post #10


********
vsrenard

Sponsor
September 2008

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 1,065
Member No.: 5,438
Joined: September-6-05

From: SF Bay Area
Gender: Female
Politics: Slightly Liberal
Party affiliation: Other




1. Will Romney's remarks impact the campaign in a positive or negative way or have no effect at all?

No effect. He's not saying anything that people against him about been snarking about, or that isn't red meat to his base. I could be jaded, but I am not surprised by anything Romney says or does anymore. He is a bully. He does not care about the voters unless they can do something to him. He says asinine things and then doubles down on them. This plays well with a segment of the population.

2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?

He should own his remarks, and to his credit, he has. If that's how he really feels, why apologie for it? As much as I shake my head at this, it's refreshing to see some honesty from him.

Bonus question: Are you part of the 47 percent Romney isn't worried about or the 53 percent he is?

Neither. I reject his definition in its entirety. I would not vote for Obama no matter what, nor am relying on the government for my subsistence. I do believe there should be single payer healthcare, and a welfare net for those who need it. I am thankful and lucky I don't need that. There but for the grace of X go I.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BoF
post Sep 18 2012, 02:27 PM
Post #11


**********
Giga-bite: "I catch mice & rats - 2 & 4 legs."

Sponsor
October 2004

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 6,126
Member No.: 3,423
Joined: August-14-04

From: Texas
Gender: Male
Politics: Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



1. Will Romney's remarks impact the campaign in a positive or negative way or have no effect at all?

Bloomberg’s Josh Barro thinks this will cost Romney the election.

QUOTE
You can mark my prediction now: A secret recording from a closed-door Mitt Romney fundraiser, released today by David Corn at Mother Jones, has killed Mitt Romney's campaign for president.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/bloomberg-mi...-014641042.html

2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?

According to the same article, that process has already started.

QUOTE
After the remarks came to light, the Romney campaign released a statement saying that Romney "wants to help all Americans" and that "he is concerned about the growing number of people who are dependent on the federal government."

Bonus question: Are you part of the 47 percent Romney isn't worried about or the 53 percent he is?

I am retired. I will be 70 later this month. My combined income consists of teacher retirement, IRA distributions taxed as ordinary income, and a reduced Social Scurity benefit. I paid between 8% and 10% income tax the past few years.

Here’s an explanation of the 53%/47% split from Business Insider.
http://www.businessinsider.com/mitt-romney...vernment-2012-9

I am part of the 53% that supports President Obama.

This post has been edited by BoF: Sep 18 2012, 02:39 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
skeeterses
post Sep 18 2012, 02:49 PM
Post #12


*******
Five Hundred Club

Group: Members
Posts: 794
Member No.: 5,233
Joined: July-7-05

From: Maryland
Gender: Male
Politics: Undisclosed
Party affiliation: None



1. Will Romney's remarks impact the campaign in a positive or negative way or have no effect at all?
If Romney feels that 47% of the population is against him, he has a real mathematical problem in terms of trying to win the election. But now that the cat is out of the bag on this one, it might be a good time for him to "name that cut" and issue the same challenge to Obama. If nobody is willing to touch the military or the healthcare entitlements, we will NEVER balance the budget.

2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?
I have to say A LOT of explaining. Unfortunately, it's the kind of explaining that neither party has the guts to do. For example, how can we drastically cut the healthcare spending when over the third of the population is walking around like land whales, because people drive instead of walking and eat filthy junk from places like McDonalds? This would be a great time for Mitt Romney to tell the voters that they need to take responsibility for their health and lay down the cigarettes and lay down the junk food. The issue of education unfortunately will be thornier. If our education establishment cannot afford to train doctors and engineers because of budget cuts, there simply will be fewer high paying careers for young people to pursue.

Bonus question: Are you part of the 47 percent Romney isn't worried about or the 53 percent he is?
I happen to be one of those people who don't pay the Federal Income Tax. But other than that, I don't receive any entitlements from the Government.

Romney could have been up front and told those 47 percent from the get go that they need to take responsibility for their own well being. Had he been more honest up front, Romney could have laid out a path for Americans to become more sufficient and to get off the Government dole.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
akaCG
post Sep 18 2012, 03:20 PM
Post #13


*********
Advanced Senior Contributor

Sponsor
August 2012

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 4,846
Member No.: 10,787
Joined: November-25-09

Gender: Male
Politics: Conservative
Party affiliation: Independent



QUOTE(Amlord @ Sep 18 2012, 10:05 AM) *
1. Will Romney's remarks impact the campaign in a positive or negative way or have no effect at all?

I don't think they will have much of an effect.

These comments are reflective of how the race is actually going. There is a group of people in this country that don't pay taxes and so are not persuaded by a "keep taxes low" platform. Does anyone doubt this? I'm talking about working people and this same group is persuaded by the "tax the rich" divisiveness of the Obama campaign. There are people that believe that the rich don't pay their "fair share" despite the fact that the top 1% pays 36.7% of all federal income tax and the bottom 95% pays 41.3% of all federal income taxes. The rich pay a higher share of the total tax, a higher percentage of their income and generally more than most people think.

At the same time, there is a group of people who are dependent on the government and the Obama campaign is doing its best to scare these people into believing that Republicans want to end every safety net program that exists, which is patently false. The Republican message is that it is better to have a job than to not have a job.

That's pretty much it. The message is that if we can help business owners, then these business owners will expand and give people jobs. It isn't convincing to some people.

Let's not forget that this "47%" are people WITH jobs that pay NO federal income taxes. It isn't unemployed people.

2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?

Apologize for what? For saying out loud that there are free loaders in this country who have a job and pay no income tax? To admit that there are people that won't vote for him under any circumstances? To admit that not everyone has the same vision for this country?

Apologize for what, exactly?

People vote in their self interest. Give them stuff ("free" healthcare, extended unemployment benefits, less contributions to their retirement plan for the same benefits) and they will vote for you.

Bonus question: Are you part of the 47 percent Romney isn't worried about or the 53 percent he is?

I am part of the 53%. I have a job, I pay income taxes. I don't pay a particularly high percentage of my income to federal income taxes (around 7.5% on my gross income). I want my government to get spending under control. I want a balanced budget. I don't want the house of cards to fall as it has in Greece.

Seconded.

I must say, I really can't think of anything to add to the above at the moment, other than:
QUOTE
...
The Democrats think Romney just self-destructed by pointing out, um, THEIR ENTIRE STRATEGY
...
I can see why Democrats are so offended. How dare Mitt Romney say they’re dependent on the government? Only Democrats get to say they’re dependent on the government!

Has everybody already forgotten “Julia”?
...
They hope you’ll be offended that Romney pointed out what the Dems have been telling you your whole life: that you need the government to provide for you, that you can’t go a single day without a handout. They hope you’re as credulous as the people who voted for them last time.
...
P.S. Courtesy of the mighty Iowahawk: Julia’s Circle of Life.
...

Link: http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/18/democrat...ntire-strategy/

Heh.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Amlord
post Sep 18 2012, 03:33 PM
Post #14


Group Icon

**********
The Roaring Lion

Sponsor

Group: Moderators
Posts: 5,884
Member No.: 572
Joined: March-4-03

From: Cleveland suburbs, OH
Gender: Male
Politics: Conservative
Party affiliation: Republican



QUOTE(BoF @ Sep 18 2012, 10:27 AM) *
Here’s an explanation of the 53%/47% split from Business Insider.
http://www.businessinsider.com/mitt-romney...vernment-2012-9

We all should know by now that paying into Social Security is different than federal income taxes. Although technically these are simply payroll taxes and not guaranteed to go to these programs, the funds go to these programs. You pay while you work to "earn" Social Security and Medicare. That is the reason why nobody is in favor of simply scrapping these programs: too many people have paid into them for many years.

Romney is pointing out the effectiveness of his lower income tax policy: it isn't going to work with a pretty large percentage of potential voters. As he later clarified: "it

The media is trying to (yet again) attack Mitt Romney for being a conservative. After all, aren't all conservatives evil mean-spirited people? When one who is running for President actually says something that almost all conservatives believes of course he should be lambasted for it.

Not everyone in the media thinks this is going to be bad for him.

Anything that will distract the public from the unproductive policies of this President should be taken advantage of, right?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dontreadonme
post Sep 18 2012, 03:49 PM
Post #15


Group Icon

**********
I think, therefore I am an enemy of the State....and Fox News

Sponsor
October 2003

Group: Moderators
Posts: 6,452
Member No.: 359
Joined: December-25-02

From: Nestled in the Shenandoah
Gender: Male
Politics: Independent
Party affiliation: Libertarian



With the message against government dependancy, I wasn't at first sure if he was speaking to citizens or corporations.

The problem with Romney's message is that it comes off as a direct attack against roughly half of the US population. I understand his position, but you reform the tax code....you don't disavow concern for the entire demographic. Not if you want to win an election anyway.

It's almost as if he expects lower income Americans to voluntarily pay taxes.

"Not everyone in the media thinks this is going to be bad for him."

Considering that the source is Breitbart, this link could easily be posted in "News that isn't a shock to you".
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
akaCG
post Sep 18 2012, 03:59 PM
Post #16


*********
Advanced Senior Contributor

Sponsor
August 2012

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 4,846
Member No.: 10,787
Joined: November-25-09

Gender: Male
Politics: Conservative
Party affiliation: Independent



Interestingly, Gallup has just published a poll asking "Some people think the government is trying to do too many things that should be left to individuals and businesses. Others think that government should do more to solve our country's problems. Which comes closer to your own view?"

54% think the government is doing too much. Which leaves ... 46% who either think the government should do more (39%), or are ambivalent (5%), or are blink.gif (2%).

Looks like Romney's 53/47 split just about nailed it.

Also, not at all surprisingly, ...

"Doing too much":

Republicans: 82%
Democrats: 24%
Independents: 62% <--- THIS is the important number. Good.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DaytonRocker
post Sep 18 2012, 04:08 PM
Post #17


*********
Advanced Senior Contributor

Group: Members
Posts: 2,520
Member No.: 547
Joined: February-26-03

From: Dayton, Ohio
Gender: Male
Politics: Moderate
Party affiliation: Republican



QUOTE(Dontreadonme @ Sep 18 2012, 11:49 AM) *
The problem with Romney's message is that it comes off as a direct attack against roughly half of the US population.


Actually, the hypocrisy is off the charts - that, along with deception - the platform of today's republican party.

Of those magical 47%, most of them do pay taxes in the form of payroll taxes, sales tax, etc. But they get tax breaks (child care credit, etc) sometimes reducing their tax burden to zero. But we have Romney - with Swiss bank accounts and bank accounts in the Cayman Islands being the one to pass this judgment. If I were to question this, the rebuttal is "he's doing nothing illegal!". Which is true. But neither is half the country he just threw under the bus.

Romney was losing this election and he will lose this election. He's a horrible candidate, but he's the only one who could get by the apocalyptic cult that has become the republican party. All of the recent releases will sink him because nobody has to do anything to campaign against him - they only have to use his own words.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Amlord
post Sep 18 2012, 05:37 PM
Post #18


Group Icon

**********
The Roaring Lion

Sponsor

Group: Moderators
Posts: 5,884
Member No.: 572
Joined: March-4-03

From: Cleveland suburbs, OH
Gender: Male
Politics: Conservative
Party affiliation: Republican



QUOTE(DaytonRocker @ Sep 18 2012, 12:08 PM) *
QUOTE(Dontreadonme @ Sep 18 2012, 11:49 AM) *
The problem with Romney's message is that it comes off as a direct attack against roughly half of the US population.


Actually, the hypocrisy is off the charts - that, along with deception - the platform of today's republican party.

Of those magical 47%, most of them do pay taxes in the form of payroll taxes, sales tax, etc. But they get tax breaks (child care credit, etc) sometimes reducing their tax burden to zero. But we have Romney - with Swiss bank accounts and bank accounts in the Cayman Islands being the one to pass this judgment. If I were to question this, the rebuttal is "he's doing nothing illegal!". Which is true. But neither is half the country he just threw under the bus.


Is this really relevant? Because Romney doesn't manage his money. It's in a blind trust, which is meant to shield him from conflicts of interest. What this should really tell us is that there is a problem with the tax structure in the United States.

QUOTE(DaytonRocker @ Sep 18 2012, 12:08 PM) *
Romney was losing this election and he will lose this election. He's a horrible candidate, but he's the only one who could get by the apocalyptic cult that has become the republican party. All of the recent releases will sink him because nobody has to do anything to campaign against him - they only have to use his own words.

Well, the cast of that new series "MSNBC News" agrees with you. At lunch today they were yucking it up about Republicans abandoning Romney. I find that difficult to believe given the state of the race (pretty much dead heat) and the poor state of the economy.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nighttimer
post Sep 18 2012, 05:47 PM
Post #19


*********
Advanced Senior Contributor

Sponsor
February 2007

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 4,660
Member No.: 504
Joined: February-16-03

Gender: Undisclosed
Politics: Undisclosed
Party affiliation: Undisclosed



QUOTE(nighttimer @ Sep 17 2012, 10:24 PM) *
Questions for debate:

1. Will Romney's remarks impact the campaign in a positive or negative way or have no effect at all?

2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?

Bonus question: Are you part of the 47 percent Romney isn't worried about or the 53 percent he is?



1. In a close election 49 days out, everything a candidate says has some impact on the final outcome. I believe this will have a negative effect on Romney with independents. It feeds into Mitt's image as a elitist plutocrat who does not feel the pain of middle and working class Americans. When you want to be President of the United States how can you write off almost half of the country from the jump? One of the knocks on President Obama is that he hasn't united the country, but divided it instead. It's not a positive for Romney to declare he's not interested in being the president for 47 percent of the country. He is saying these people are moochers. That is an outrageous slander and an egregious insult.

2. Romney has attempted to explain his remarks saying they weren't "elegantly stated," but he hasn't backed away from them (yet!) The fact that he felt he had to make a statement to the press so hurriedly put together there wasn't time to carry it live indicates to me that Romney realized this was going to blow up in his face. The other problem is the facts don't support Romney's claims to his fat-cat supporters.

Bonus question: The Tax Foundation.org put out a map showing the majority on non-tax payers reside in the South in red states likely to vote for Romney, so by that standard, I'm not part of Romney's America.

I work a 40 hour job. I do not receive food stamps, welfare, unemployment compensation, Medicare, Medicaid or any other government aid.

I have a daughter in college. She does not receive Pell Grants or any other government cash for college students.

I do not consider myself a "victim" and I am not a freeloader. I pay my axes and take personal responsibility for myself and my family.

I am not part of Romney's 53 percent and I never want to be.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Aquilla
post Sep 18 2012, 06:01 PM
Post #20


*********
Advanced Senior Contributor

Group: Members
Posts: 3,148
Member No.: 421
Joined: February-3-03

From: Missouri
Gender: Male
Politics: Conservative
Party affiliation: Republican



rolleyes.gif It is heartening in a way that even though the Church of Obama has essentially declared victory here and in the lapdog media, they still feel it necessary to run around in the gutter. I dunno, maybe they like the gutter. Oh well, if nothing else it makes for entertaining reading and a nice distraction from time to time. On to the questions.


1. Will Romney's remarks impact the campaign in a positive or negative way or have no effect at all?

I think it can have a positive impact if anything with people who honestly haven't made up their mind. Like it or not, we do all see some people who abuse the system from time to time and that kind of ticks people off. I don't have a problem with someone who has a family to feed and house getting a helping hand be it from the government or a private charity, that's what the system is for. I do have a problem with people who don't want to contribute to society taking advantage of the system, and yes, believe it or not, there are people out there who do that, and are encouraged to do that. I would think people who genuinely need the system would resent abuse of it as well. But, apparently not, not as long as they get what they need. Those people are going to support Obama, regardless. That's what Romney was talking about. It's not that he doesn't care about them and their lives, he does and his contributions over the years to private charities proves that, rather he knows he can't possibly get them to vote for him. So, why try?



2. Should Romney apologize for his remarks? Explain what he meant? Totally ignore the remarks and focus on the campaign?


No apology necesary. He's explained his remarks, the context in which they were delivered and sottd by them. Go back to the real issues.


Bonus question: Are you part of the 47 percent Romney isn't worried about or the 53 percent he is?

laugh.gif Have you beat your wife lately, NT? laugh.gif

Romney doesn't have to worry about me or my vote.

Aquilla
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

9 Pages V   1 2 3 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

  
Go to the top of the page - Simple Version Time is now: November 16th, 2018 - 01:46 AM
©2002-2010 America's Debate, Inc.  All rights reserved.