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VP Debate, So, what do you think? |
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Oct 12 2012, 10:55 AM
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Mammal

May 2007
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What do you think about the VP debate, 2012?
This was definitely an engaging debate. Biden was infinitely more confident and prepared to tackle the debate than Obama was in dealing with Ryan. There were times where he seemed to just school Ryan. He did a very good job of calling Ryan out and holding his feet to the fire regarding Romney's tax plan and Medicare. When he was in a corner, Ryan relied heavily on making it seem like Biden was engaging in a tactic. Rather than ask the question of what he would do, he looked to hindsight and said what he wouldn't have done to start with - ignoring where we are currently with regard to Syria, for example. There were a lot of holes where he simply did not provide specifics. And the argument about troops coming home in Afghanistan went to Biden handily... Ryan seemed to be stuck and not hearing what was being said.
Biden did a good job saying, basically, that Romney and Ryan aren't providing specifics on certain issues, so look at the specifics of their past on those issues. They don't want to tell you specifically what they will do, so look at what they've specifically done in the past compared to what they're saying now.
Ryan put on a good face and made a couple of points. Obama and Biden can't escape the, perhaps overconfident, broken promises regarding the recovery. They really have their work cut out for them when it comes to defending the last four years with regard to that.
In terms of delivery, I felt that in terms of sounding like one is simply spouting talking points, Biden did a better job avoiding that.
I do wish Biden would've called out Ryan on his failure to recognize the authority of that third branch of government, the judicial system. The courts exist for a reason and in that one statement, it sounds as if Romney and Ryan don't believe it's necessary to have a third branch.
This post has been edited by entspeak: Oct 12 2012, 11:08 AM
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Oct 12 2012, 11:55 AM
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Glasses and journalism work for me.

November 2003
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QUOTE(entspeak @ Oct 12 2012, 06:55 AM)  In terms of delivery, I felt that in terms of sounding like one is simply spouting talking points, Biden did a better job avoiding that.
I do wish Biden would've called out Ryan on his failure to recognize the authority of that third branch of government, the judicial system. The courts exist for a reason and in that one statement, it sounds as if Romney and Ryan don't believe it's necessary to have a third branch. Ryan came off as a smug turd blossom, and Biden was the angry old fart. The question I was left with has to do with President Obama's ability to smack down Romney in a similar fashion and not from the perspective of innate ability but from the strategic sense. There's the angry black guy thing but also a younger man calling out a senior citizen on misconceptions and miscommunications, The second Presidential debate will be interesting to me on this level. The potential for blow-back is high, yet there are debate strategies that will accomplish a similar effect, but they involve judo and kung fu moves, not the left hooks and right uppercuts that Biden had the luxury of using without coming off as a bully. I was also impressed with the moderator, Martha Raddatz. I think she might have unhinged Ryan a bit, her highly experienced eyes boring holes through that smug think-tank smirk. Biden was good about reminding everyone that we are talking about policy impacts on real people.
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Oct 12 2012, 05:06 PM
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No More Mr. Nice Guy!
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QUOTE(Dontreadonme @ Oct 12 2012, 10:58 AM)  After trolling around the bloggerverse and various news-ish sites, I stumbled across a startling discovery:
Uniformly, nearly everyone in the Romney-Ryan camp thinks that Ryan trounced Biden and exposed lies and distortions.
Uniformly, nearly everyone in the Obama-Biden camp thinks Biden trounced Ryan and exposed lies and distortions.  Affirmation bias confirmed. Should this also be posted in the News That Doesn't Shock You thread?  It does go to show that the only opinions that really matter are those of the independents...but then most of those have probably already decided as well. It also does show just how poorly Obama really did, as even the Democratic camp stated they thought he lost the debate. I missed most of it (will catch it later) but from everyone's thoughts on it, and the part I did see, and the news DTOM shows here, it seems close enough to a draw to call it that. Biden seemed to have done his job by stopping the floodgates, and Ryan didn't completely fall on his face. VP debates especially only really matter if the difference is a landslide, and that doesn't seem to be the case, so the net effect of this one will be miniscule. It is worth noting, from entspeak's FactCheck article, that much of what is said isn't a lie, just a certain perspective. QUOTE Ryan said Obama’s proposal to let tax rates rise for high-income individuals would “tax about 53 percent of small-business income.” Wrong. Ryan is counting giant hedge funds and thousands of other multimillion-dollar enterprises as “small” businesses. What Ryan said isn't Wrong, as those businesses are classified as small businesses, it seems. That might be somewhat misleading, given everyone's perception of what a small business is, but it isn't wrong. There do appear to be numerous misstatements in this debate, but this example shows that they aren't always 'wrong'.
This post has been edited by Hobbes: Oct 12 2012, 05:29 PM
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