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> When each state will be non-white
Zero Tolerance
post Jul 5 2005, 12:30 PM
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The Census Bureau says the country will be majority minority by the year 2035.
Here's the data state by state.

California already was majority minority, and Hawaii was never majority White:

Before 2025:
Texas, 2004 (already happened).
Arizona, 2016.
Florida, 2018
New York, 2019
Nevada, 2023

From 2025 to 2049:
New Jersey, 2025
Illinois, 2032
Colorado, 2035.
Georgia, 2039
Mississippi, 2039
Oregon, 2046
Massachusetts, 2047
Virginia, 2047
North Carolina, 2048
South Carolina, 2049

From 2050 to 2074:
Rhode Island, 2050
Connecticut, 2051
Washington, 2051
Maryland, 2052
Louisiana, 2056
Kansas, 2058
Utah, 2059
Minnesota, 2062
Idaho, 2063
Nebraska, 2063
Alaska, 2065
Arkansas, 2067
Delaware, 2070
Iowa, 2070
Oklahoma, 2071
Alabama, 2074
New Hampshire, 2074

From 2075 to 2099:
Wisconsin, 2080
Tennessee, 2087
Kentucky, 2092
Indiana, 2098
Wyoming, 2099

Not till the 22nd Century:
North Dakota, 2102
Montana, 2104
Pennsylvania, 2105
Michigan, 2106
South Dakota, 2107
Missouri, 2109
Maine, 2123
Vermont, 2124
Ohio, 2134
West Virginia, 2178

So when this happens will it be the beginning of the end for American we are already like the titanic now as it is also:

QUOTE
FBI report confirms higher rate than whites for racial attacks

By Jon Dougherty


2001 WorldNetDaily.com

Although "hate-crime" legislation has been championed by minority groups in hopes it would discourage racially motivated crime, a recently released FBI crime report reveals that a higher percentage of blacks than whites are charged with race-biased "hate crimes."

The FBI's "Hate Crime Statistics" for 1999 show that 2,030 whites were arrested that year for "hate crimes" against blacks, compared to 524 blacks who were arrested and charged with a "hate crime" against whites.

<snip>

The Census Bureau's November 2000 statistics listed the nation's white population at 226.8 million, or 82.2 percent of the total. "In light of this study, it's fair to ask who poses a greater threat to the black community -- racist, violent whites or oblivious black politicians?" said Steve Dasbach, the national director for the Libertarian Party.


"Unfortunately, hate crime laws have boomeranged on blacks," Dasbach said in a recent statement. "African-Americans thought that hate crime legislation would protect them, but instead they're being used as another legal weapon to prosecute them."

<snip>

The bottom line, Dasbach said, is that crimes against a certain protected class of citizens "should not be treated more seriously than crimes against anyone else."
 
The Libertarian Party has advocated a complete elimination of all "hate crime" laws. "Racist criminals, whether black or white, should be punished for their crimes, but hate crime laws aren't needed to do that," said the party chief.


<snip>



QUOTE
Within five years, half the whites had fled the country, and the minority black tribes were as dissatisfied as the whites. Thousands of Mugabe's political opponents had been killed by his army. His rivals had been exiled or neutralized, and Mugabe had proclaimed his intention to establish a one-party state. The once-prosperous country was in serious economic trouble and had become dependent on foreign aid.

In the past year Mugabe has been sending what he calls "war veterans" to squat on hundreds of white-owned farms. Eight prominent white farmers, including Gloria Olds, who was shot twenty times. She was the mother of a farmer killed last year. The intimidation of whites has now extended to those who own factories. A hundred former employees stormed a textile firm on March 30. They beat up the white directors, but didn't touch those who were black. But it isn't only whites who are suffering from Mugabe's racist policies

http://www.aim.org/media_monitor/A996_0_2_0_C/


South Africa:

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...27/170150.shtml

It happens all over Africa where these countries have a white minority. The things these black savages do (i cant call them Human) are things like cutting live white womens breasts off not to mention the rape before hand and sticking white people in timber mills and sawing them in half, and white people like Bob Geldof want to give these animals money. if you think well the mexicans who live in our country and we give welfare and let them stay will give your childrens children a fair go well:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=24AUCA9H

(if it doesn't work at first just close it and re open it)

You think that man would give you "civil rights"

1)What do you think should be done to stop our childrens children facing persecution, do you even care? or do you think it will even happen?

2)When whites become a minority in our country what will happen to America? What would happen besides becoming a second rate super power having to step aside for China and Russia.


Edited to conform cited portions to forum Rules.


This post has been edited by Jaime: Jul 5 2005, 01:21 PM
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Bay State Rebel
post Jul 5 2005, 01:56 PM
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With all due respect, I question some of the assumptions behind the questions, especially the second one. To begin with, "non-white" more likely than not means that pure Caucasians will become a minority. I especially believe this because there are very few pure Native Hawaiians; most have a significant amount of Caucasian heritage. Also, take a close look at the order of the states; what sane person would say Massachusetts will become majority non-white before South Carolina unless taking into account attitudes toward mixed marriage?

As for the questions themselves...

1 - I don't think that this is a serious concern. Africa is a historically black continent, controlled by a single race, so you can't use it to show what will happen with a white minority counterbalanced by a mélange of various races and mixtures of races. There will be black prejudice (racism is a loaded word), of course. There will be prejudice against the multi-racial. Whites, however, will not be the subject of persecution any more than today, because there will be no majority to persecute.

2 - With all due respect, this question comes across as almost racist. Why would America become a second-rate power with pure Caucasians in the minority? What, is there a white majority in China? I fail to see any way in which it would change this country, except, in all likelyhood, changing the racial mix of the government. I don't think that that would weaken this country. I would like to hear more details of your logic as to how it would.
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CruisingRam
post Jul 5 2005, 02:20 PM
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1)What do you think should be done to stop our childrens children facing persecution, do you even care? or do you think it will even happen?

So I am supposed to be afraid that the mean ol' black man is going to start persecuting me and my children because America is no longer lily-white? I am sorry, but I am just not afraid of the black and brown man I suppose LOL- me and my wife are as white as porcelin- and I can't wait until the country turns brown- so far, minorities seem to be ignoring the religious right issues and finding much more substansive issues to address- if it continues- I can't wait for Barak Obama to replace the creeps we have in power now.

Right now, minority voters seem alot smarter than white voters in this country, much more overall informed on issues- while white voters in this country are easily manipulated by thier pundits, with the only thing a repub needing to be elected is to convince thier constituents is to say "he is a liberal, he hates guns, want to end the bible, and loves abortion"- end of debate. I have high hopes for minority leadership in this country- I always respect any group that overwhelmingly rejected GW.

I ask myself, what would I rather have for a neighbor, Night-timer or folks who actually believe that a non-white America means the end of American freedom? Will pick the NTs every time. thumbsup.gif

2)When whites become a minority in our country what will happen to America? What would happen besides becoming a second rate super power having to step aside for China and Russia.

Perhaps when whites become a minority things will be much better - ever think of that? There are good poeple and bad poeple of every race. Had a barbeque yesterday- all close friends, and until I was reading this topic, I never considered the racial make-up- but now that I see that it is so important for some folks- gee, I had three black families over that were Gambian (sp)- and thier children, and <gasp> I let them play with my white kids! You know what they did? They played like kids! They didn't even know they should be afraid of each other! Well, there was this little kid that was acting out, going through the terrible twos- oops, that kid was mine.

The samoan family next door came over to wish me a happy fourth and meet my family since I moved it- brought me a hawaiin fruit basket- my god, the nerve!

The older black couple next door, a retired school teacher, and a retired civil engineer also came by to welcome me to the nieghborhood, I wonder what thier ulterior motive was- especially thier 21 year old son, I should be on my guard all the time with him, right? thumbsup.gif

Personally, my politics and beliefs follow more closely the minorities I know than white voters in my own state- so I think I am hoping the racial turnover happens a little faster.

I remember the MTV commercial on this subject a couple years ago- a black man quoting the racial change statistics, and asking "are you afraid" - my answer- NOPE.

Wanted to add one thing- my lilly white kids bring home someone other than white to marry someday - my questions will be "does he/she treat you right, you know they love you, how is the relationship etc etc"- not once will I say "why, billy joe bob, she aint' white! " LOL

And you know what- even if they end up coming home with a same sex person, that will only bother me if they don't plan on trying to have some grandchildren with the options that may be open to them - perhaps I will print this subject as a lesson to my kids later on- that some poeple have a serious gap in thier education. thumbsup.gif

This post has been edited by CruisingRam: Jul 5 2005, 02:37 PM
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Wertz
post Jul 5 2005, 02:21 PM
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1)What do you think should be done to stop our childrens children facing persecution, do you even care? or do you think it will even happen?

I'm not sure what you mean by "our children's children". Are you presuming that you're addressing a snow white audience here? Assuming that you mean your children's children, frankly (and as prompted), I don't even care. That said, I doubt that your grandchildren will have much to fear from all those darkies - "they" tend to be somewhat more tolerant than your average white supremacist. My children's children will, hopefully, be a delightful caramel color - and will fit right in with their American brothers and sisters.

2)When whites become a minority in our country what will happen to America? What would happen besides becoming a second rate super power having to step aside for China and Russia.

It would be a step up from being a third rate super power, but I doubt a bigger racial mix will improve things that much.

This post has been edited by Wertz: Jul 6 2005, 12:35 AM
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Horyok
post Jul 5 2005, 02:26 PM
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1)What do you think should be done to stop our childrens children facing persecution, do you even care? or do you think it will even happen?

I think what's happening in Africa is very different to what's going on in America. Africa's racial violence is a legacy of the feelings of deprivation and anger of local people against white colons who took their land in the past. America's racial violence isn't that at all. Black people were drawn from Africa by enslavers, then used as slaves in a new land. Even after slavery was abolished, they didn't become "normal citizens" right away. That's where most of their resentment comes from.

None of these situations is good and both of them resultted in anger and death. But assuming that persecution will arise in America because of the current situation in Africa, is a mistake in my opinion, because the contexts are different.

I'd like to remind you that there are other minorities in America, like people descending from Spanish speaking parents for instance. There is also a strong and active Asian community. The result of their growth will inevitably create changes in the culture of America, but I don't see this a the gateway to persecution you're talking about.

2)When whites become a minority in our country what will happen to America? What would happen besides becoming a second rate super power having to step aside for China and Russia.

I think America will change no matter what. You see, a country is not a fixed image that crosses time unchanged. All the American people, even Native Americans, have their roots and origins in other places. We all come from somewhere else, and through our ancestors and until today, we all have contributed to the creation of America. The same is happening for every single country in the world. Everyday, things change and prepare the future.

Change is inevitable, because WE are all causing it.

Finally, the international position of America and its opinions will evolve because of the origin of all people living in it; I would say that their choices and desires will condition the behavior of the USA abroad.

Intelligence, strength of character, power of command are qualities that are not restricted to white people. Someday, we will have a president with black skin, elected by all and representing all. He/she will be the president of all Americans, not only the one of African Americans.

If you start thinking that only white people can defend your vision of America, it's like seeing the world with only one eye; and it's also the open door to racism.
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Julian
post Jul 5 2005, 02:35 PM
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Before I address your specific debate questions, I would like to go on record that I don't think it is sensible to link the issues of future demographics and their implications in America with inter-racial violence in Zimbabwe.

If for no other reason that whites were never in the majority in Zimabwe, but were in power. There are serious issues to be discussed in relation to Zimbabwe, and to Africa as a whole, particularly in the light of the campaign spearheaded by Mr Geldof and its likely impact on tomorrow's G8 summit and subsequent policies on aid and trade.

However these do not really have much to do with American demographics unless one assumes that "the white race" has some kind of innate superiority that requires protection from brutalising "minorities". Since you haven't asked us to debate that in your questions I will say no more about it. (edited to add: Well, barely refer to it, anyway.)

1)What do you think should be done to stop our childrens children facing persecution, do you even care? or do you think it will even happen?

First of all, I will assume that the current trends will continue, and that no other outside factors will arise that might have an effect. Let's assume that there is not some kind of disaster in Britain, Canada or Australia Eurasia that drives millions of white Anglophone Christians to America and redresses the population balance. Let's also assume that the Asian bird flu epidemic that's been threatened for years doesn't finally hit, killing millions, and therefore doesn't create a new baby boom in the aftermath that evens out the different birth rates of different racial groups in the USA.

Over the kind of timescales we're looking at here, these are the kind of possible factors that have put paid to the future projections of demographers ever since Thomas Malthus invented the science in the first place.

But, let's assume, for the sake of debate, that no such things happen, and that even in 100 or 150 year's time, the descendents of today's minorities keep breeding at the kind of rates needed to make these predictions come true.

So what? What makes you think that racial politics will stay the same as thay are now in Zimbabwe in 150 years' time, let alone in the USA? Is another assumption we haev to make in order to think that white Americans in 2079 or 2178 will be persecuted in any way at all? Are we to assume that the hate speech legislation which already seems to be resorted to in law by more whites than minorities will be removed by those majorities the minute they don't need such laws any more?

On this, I have to admit I'm a little confused by your opening post, as it doesn't seem clear to me whether you are presenting hate crime legislation as a bad thing because it infringes free speech, or a good thing because it might be the only thing to protect poor, defenceless white Americans from rampaging ZanuPf-style mobs in the 22nd Century. Can you elaborate?

B]2)When whites become a minority in our country what will happen to America? [/b]

In all honesty, I think the only significant thing that will happen to America when whites become a minority is that, er, whites will become a minority. Perhaps Spanish will become an official language alongside English. But that's more or less it.

I don't see that the minorities which are growing in America especially disapprove of the centrality of capitalism, Christianity and the Constitution in American life. Nor do I think that they are appreciably less individualistic than "native" white Americans. (The irony of that is so thick you could make nails with it.). From outside, these are the things that make America unique, not skin colour.

What would happen besides becoming a second rate super power having to step aside for China and Russia.

History teaches us that that is going to happen eventually no matter what you do. I doubt that the racial profile of West Virginia will be very important one way or the other in maintaining first rate superpower status for the USA.

Oh, and it's not China and Russia you need to worry about. It's China, India and Indonesia. Doubtless they, in their turn, will panic that that one day they won't be "yellow" or "brown" enough to keep ahead of the superpowers-after-next.

The French have a phrase for this - plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose. But then, they were the superpower-before-last, so they'd know about such things.

In summary, I don't think your grandchildren have much to worry about from demographic change.

You'd be better off worrying on their behalf about the bird flu and other as-yet-unknown new diseases, earthquakes, volcanos, climate change, oil crisis, meteor strikes and other natural disasters that might kill them. Not to mention oil-price and defecit-fuelled economic meltdown, invasion, war, famine, pestilience or the Second Coming, any of which might topple America from the top of the anthill. All these things that would likely affect them and the soon-to-be "majority minorities" in exactly the same way.

This post has been edited by Julian: Jul 5 2005, 02:45 PM
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hayleyanne
post Jul 5 2005, 02:58 PM
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These questions presuppose that the racial groups will remain the same. I agree with Wertz-- I think over the next several generations we will see a complete blending of the ethnic groups. In the same way that many of us are european "mixes", we will see everyone having different ethnic heritages. I think that America will continue to be a "melting pot" for people of all different backgrounds.
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nemov
post Jul 5 2005, 03:07 PM
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QUOTE(Zero Tolerance @ Jul 5 2005, 08:30 AM)

1)What do you think should be done to stop our childrens children facing persecution, do you even care? or do you think it will even happen?

2)When whites become a minority in our country what will happen to America? What would happen besides becoming a second rate super power having to step aside for China and Russia.
*



First of all these questions are embarrassing. The premise behind your questions suggests that minorities are incapable of functioning in society. It is also insane to look at population models because things change too rapidly (see Thomas Malthus). I suspect the change will help certain aspects of our culture. The US will become a far more racially tolerant society.

English is such an integral part of dominate media I suspect many of the worries about Spanish challenging English as the official language are unfounded. The US has always been a melting pot. Maintaining consistent economic growth will be far more important to maintaining the long-term stability of the US.

For example, I am not so sure the US would survive another depression. Most Americans have no idea about true economic hardship.
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Zero Tolerance
post Jul 5 2005, 04:58 PM
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QUOTE
I don't think that this is a serious concern. Africa is a historically black continent, controlled by a single race, so you can't use it to show what will happen with a white minority counterbalanced by a mélange of various races and mixtures of races.


I can and i have, i used it because most of Africa was ruled or governed by whites at some stage and blacks have even been persecuted by whites also when the tables are turned and it tries to turn into a black and white society whatever whites are at the end of the violence and the hate (we are now to some extent). How long ago since slavery ended about 200 years still being talked about still black people who think they are owed "reparations" still believe white people are holding them down. I don't think in another 200 years that will change the only thing that will is that white people will be the minority then.

QUOTE
   
mélange of various races and mixtures of races


Which is like what asians? The population make up for American last time i looked at the stats was around 12% for blacks 14% for hispanics (now that is scary) and 69% for whites the "other" being all those mixes and asians making up the rest hardly a melange.

QUOTE
With all due respect, this question comes across as almost racist. Why would America become a second-rate power with pure Caucasians in the minority? What, is there a white majority in China? I fail to see any way in which it would change this country, except, in all likelyhood, changing the racial mix of the government. I don't think that that would weaken this country. I would like to hear more details of your logic as to how it would.


No but China does have pretty much the same racial make up, i admit i am basing it on the current state of mexicans and black people in today some blacks don't want to go to school some are just there because of sport anyway. A great deal are ignorant and just teach ignorance to their kids do you think a whole deal of it would change if whites were a minority no they just would have no one really left to make an excuse for being lazy and self destructive. Do you think that alot of the "ghetto" ones would say "dammm dawwg whitey boys iz gone lets pick up da slack"

In reality you are most likely right it wouldn't weaken America short term because all the jobs would be filled by mexicans that work for the smell of an oily rag.


QUOTE
they" tend to be somewhat more tolerant than your average white supremacist.


Common misconception made by alot of people as for my sources to that:

Active U.S. Hate Groups in 2004
Black Separatist
108 Hate Groups Found

[mod]Image removed in accordance with the rules[/mod]


Active U.S. Hate Groups in 2004
Ku Klux Klan (rednecks)
162 Hate Groups Found

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp?T=19&m=3

Active U.S. Hate Groups in 2004
Racist Skinhead
48 Hate Groups Found

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp?T=23&m=3

Active U.S. Hate Groups in 2004
Christian Identity
28 Hate Groups Found

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp?T=18&m=3

***Note i didn't include ALL neo confederate groups in the final total calculation, because not all are racist. Further this is just a basic look at how many hate groups are around the real number could never be guessed accurately and it doesn't include other black groups like the "bloods" and "crips" who in my experience have been fairly racist. ALSO it does not include mexican racists who have been growing for some time now***

So white hate groups make up around 287 black ones make up around 108

We only have about around 179 more then them and make up 69% of the population.

QUOTE
The samoan family next door came over to wish me a happy fourth and meet my family since I moved it- brought me a hawaiin fruit basket- my god, the nerve! 
 
The older black couple next door, a retired school teacher, and a retired civil engineer also came by to welcome me to the nieghborhood, I wonder what thier ulterior motive was- especially thier 21 year old son, I should be on my guard all the time with him, right? thumbsup.gif 
 
Personally, my politics and beliefs follow more closely the minorities I know than white voters in my own state- so I think I am hoping the racial turnover happens a little faster. 
 
I remember the MTV commercial on this subject a couple years ago- a black man quoting the racial change statistics, and asking "are you afraid" - my answer- NOPE. 
 
Wanted to add one thing- my lilly white kids bring home someone other than white to marry someday - my questions will be "does he/she treat you right, you know they love you, how is the relationship etc etc"- not once will I say "why, billy joe bob, she aint' white! " LOL 
 
And you know what- even if they end up coming home with a same sex person, that will only bother me if they don't plan on trying to have some grandchildren with the options that may be open to them - perhaps I will print this subject as a lesson to my kids later on- that some poeple have a serious gap in thier education. 


Good for you thumbsup.gif i am glad that everything is working out fine for you in your gated community in the burbs. You want to know what eventually will come of the place where you live? Check out Panarama City, Pacoima, San Fernando, much of North Hollywood. What you will see is a war zone, but no whites. Then imagine it as a peaceful, clean community. That is how it was once. East LA used to be a grand place to live.

QUOTE
I would like to go on record that I don't think it is sensible to link the issues of future demographics and their implications in America with inter-racial violence in Zimbabwe.


I linked it with the WHOLE of Africa there are a great deal of white minorities in that continent and i have seen what has been done to them stuff that would make you vomit, see above for why i linked it to Africa in the first place.

QUOTE
thare serious issues to be discussed in relation to Zimbabwe, and to Africa as a whole, particularly in the light of the campaign spearheaded by Mr Geldof and its likely impact on tomorrow's G8 summit and subsequent policies on aid and trade.


There is NO EXCUSE AND NO ISSUE for ANY human being to cut a mans nose, lips and ears off then make his wife eat it, in front of him or kill babies and cut pieces off children and threaten to club them to death if they cry. (that granted is done to both whites and blacks)

QUOTE
So what? What makes you think that racial politics will stay the same as thay are now in Zimbabwe in 150 years' time, let alone in the USA? Is another assumption we haev to make in order to think that white Americans in 2079 or 2178 will be persecuted in any way at all? Are we to assume that the hate speech legislation which already seems to be resorted to in law by more whites than minorities will be removed by those majorities the minute they don't need such laws any more? 
 
On this, I have to admit I'm a little confused by your opening post, as it doesn't seem clear to me whether you are presenting hate crime legislation as a bad thing because it infringes free speech, or a good thing because it might be the only thing to protect poor, defenceless white Americans from rampaging ZanuPf-style mobs in the 22nd Century. Can you elaborate?


In Zimbabwe they may or may not continue but as you know the leader is a despot whats to stop another despot taking over after that? Power corrupts and if someone sees the opportunity to take power or help their people and whites what do you think they will choose? See above for why i think that 200 years later and blacks are still bitching over slavery. They wouldn't be removed but would they be enforced? They are not enforced now even if a black person attacks a white one and says the attack was racially based.

No that was from an FBI report some seems to have been snipped(i have to read the rules to find out why) but it was basically about how that blacks are more likely to commit a hate crime against whites ALREADY.

QUOTE
According to the U.S. Census Bureau, blacks make up 12 percent of the population -- or about 35.4 million of the country's 280 million people -- so, given the arrest rate versus population percentage, the data indicates that blacks are one-and-a-half times more likely to be arrested for a "hate crime" than whites.


QUOTE
You'd be better off worrying on their behalf about the bird flu and other as-yet-unknown new diseases, earthquakes, volcanos, climate change, oil crisis, meteor strikes and other natural disasters that might kill them. Not to mention oil-price and defecit-fuelled economic meltdown, invasion, war, famine, pestilience or the Second Coming, any of which might topple America from the top of the anthill. All these things that would likely affect them and the soon-to-be "majority minorities" in exactly the same way.


American will be toppled from the anthill regardless its weather the hard decisions are made to try and save whats left or not.


QUOTE
First of all these questions are embarrassing. The premise behind your questions suggests that minorities are incapable of functioning in society. It is also insane to look at population models because things change too rapidly (see Thomas Malthus). I suspect the change will help certain aspects of our culture. The US will become a far more racially tolerant society. 


What the FACT white people aren't having babies? thats been around for awhile now did you listen to that recording? The hispanic population is larger then blacks(who have been here longer) I don't think anything is going to stop them breeding or "jumping" over the border.

QUOTE
For example, I am not so sure the US would survive another depression. Most Americans have no idea about true economic hardship.


BBWWWWAAAAAA yeah sad but true and one thing i will agree with you on, i have been there its not fun thats for sure.

This post has been edited by Zero Tolerance: Jul 5 2005, 05:09 PM
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SuzySteamboat
post Jul 5 2005, 04:58 PM
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1)What do you think should be done to stop our childrens children facing persecution, do you even care? or do you think it will even happen?

I've been worried about my children's children for awhile now. Welcome to the neighborhood.

2)When whites become a minority in our country what will happen to America?

We'll see more brown people?

What would happen besides becoming a second rate super power having to step aside for China and Russia.

... and a growing chapter of the KKK.
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Zero Tolerance
post Jul 5 2005, 05:00 PM
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QUOTE
and a growing chapter of the KKK.


The KKK have been basically dead for awhile now.......I never hear anything worth a grain of salt about then anymore.

QUOTE
Once America's preeminent terrorist organization, the Ku Klux Klan today is a fragmented and amorphous collection of independent groups and individuals, constantly squabbling over diminishing memberships and limited resources. Passed over by most young white supremacists, who consider Klansmen to be ineffectual and faintly ridiculous old-timers, the group presents far less of a threat to public order than at any time in the past century. Despite its dwindling influence, however, the Klan continues to be a specter that haunts the American psyche and the sight of a flaming cross can still inspire both horror and terror.


http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/KKK.asp?&M...cked=4&item=kkk

QUOTE
Since the 1970s the Klan has been greatly weakened by internal conflicts, court cases, a seemingly endless series of splits and government infiltration. While some factions have preserved an openly racist and militant approach, others have tried to enter the mainstream, cloaking their racism as mere "civil rights for whites." Today, the Center estimates that there are a total of 5,500 to 6,000 Klan members, split among scores of different -- and often warring -- organizations that use the Klan name.


http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp?T=19&m=3


Edited in response to the admins box thing below: I assume thats what you meant?


This post has been edited by Zero Tolerance: Jul 5 2005, 05:20 PM
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Jaime
post Jul 5 2005, 05:09 PM
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QUOTE(Zero Tolerance @ Jul 5 2005, 01:00 PM)
QUOTE
and a growing chapter of the KKK.


The KKK have been basically dead for awhile now.......I never hear anything worth a grain of salt about then anymore.
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You're new so you likely didn't realize one-liners are against the Rules because they are not constructive. It is important, particularly in threads where you are presenting borderline inflammatory information, to support your opinion with properly cited sources.

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post Jul 5 2005, 05:23 PM
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QUOTE(Zero Tolerance @ Jul 5 2005, 12:58 PM)
QUOTE
First of all these questions are embarrassing. The premise behind your questions suggests that minorities are incapable of functioning in society. It is also insane to look at population models because things change too rapidly (see Thomas Malthus). I suspect the change will help certain aspects of our culture. The US will become a far more racially tolerant society.


What the FACT white people aren't having babies? that been around for awhile now did you listen to that recording? The hispanc populaiton is larger then blacks(who have been here longer) I dont think anytihng is going to stop them breeding or "jumping" over the border.

*



Huh? I know in the US we have put Hispanics into an ethnic group, but I really do not consider Hispanics a race. For example, the Irish were not considered white when they were immigrating to the US in large numbers.

The state of poverty does not discriminate. Poverty creates a whole laundry list of problems that do not have anything to do with race. Your thesis is based entirely on the fact that “minorities cannot behave themselves.”
QUOTE
some blacks don't want to go to school some are just there because of sport anyway. A great deal are ignorant and just teach ignorance to their kids do you think a whole deal of it would change if whites were a minority no they just would have no one really left to make an excuse for being lazy and self destructive.

That is an ignorant and uninformed train of thought. I am surprised anyone would even write something like that in today's society. Do you have some statistics that back that up?
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post Jul 5 2005, 05:52 PM
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I think most of you have been casting pearls before swine here. White seperatists/supremists will not listen to logic. I realize this is a civil debate board, but there are times when ignorance should be called out. I did some family genealogy and found out I am about as WASP as you can get. I guess I screwed up some good genes when I married a minority.

I live in Texas, the state that is already mostly minority. Guess what, haven't seen any whites being lynched on the streets. No one has tried to cut off my ears yet, either. Heck, every single major state elected official is a white Republican. The growing minority population has not even pushed Texas to the blue state category, much less produce chaos and violence. One thing that seems possible with a growing percentage of the US population being minority is a shift to the left politically. This has yet to happen in Texas. The focus on blacks is not relevant. The black population, as a percentage of the population, is not expected to grow significantly. I also see no significant coalition of the various groups to unite in an effort to bring whitey down.
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kmsouthern
post Jul 5 2005, 06:25 PM
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Loaded questions much? rolleyes.gif

1)What do you think should be done to stop our childrens children facing persecution, do you even care? or do you think it will even happen?

Well, I'm not sure who you include in your definition of 'our children' (though I have a suspicion that mine would not be included). It's also a huge jump in logic to equate anything in Africa's history with American history when it comes to 'race'.

Oh yes, and I've also done my part to help speed up the non-white process, thankyouverymuch Brown babies sure are beautiful and it will be a wonderful thing when the country is full of so many beautiful brown-skinned children thumbsup.gif Maybe my children's children and Wertz's children's children will get together and rule the world biggrin.gif

2)When whites become a minority in our country what will happen to America? What would happen besides becoming a second rate super power having to step aside for China and Russia.

Well, for starters we'd hopefully have a more representative government. Maybe we could wreak havoc on the current two party system thumbsup.gif - start some real progress in this country! Also, we'd hopefully see the end of 'white privilege' - maybe then some of the people so quick to assume that everyone has a fair and equal chance will have the shoe on the other foot, so-to-speak. Walking a mile in another person's shoes is always a good eye-opener smile.gif
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Jack22
post Jul 5 2005, 10:10 PM
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1)What do you think should be done to stop our childrens children facing persecution, do you even care? or do you think it will even happen?

I don't think it will happen. I live in an area of Texas that has been predominantly Tejano long before Texas was even a state. If there are any racial tensions, they are almost entirely gang-related. Close friends might occasionally joke around with racial slurs, but not in anger. My family and I are Tejano, and very well-treated by our friends and neighbors-- black, white and otherwise. Kids of all races occasionally go through a bigotted phase in junior high, but grow out of it by high school, except the few druggies who get caught up in the gangs. No big deal.

2)When whites become a minority in our country what will happen to America? What would happen besides becoming a second rate super power having to step aside for China and Russia.

The only thing that might make America step aside for totalitarians is if we move so far toward statism (whether socialist statism on the left or nationalist statism on the right) that we abandon the libertarian capitalism that made us great.

It is hardly a foregone conclusion that socio-economic values will always be dictated by skin color-- true, one party has been more effective than the other at winning our votes in recent years, but not all of us are swayed by populist rhetoric. We "non-whites" are not politically homogenous. We don't all bow to the gods of liberalism just because a liberal party (which has historically oppressed us) tries to make everyone think they are more dedicated to us than the other party.

Historically, I see more real dedication to the racially oppressed in the Republican Party than the Democrats. The Republican party came about as a merger of smaller parties, most of them abolitionists like the Free Soil Party and the Liberty Party. The Republicans were on the right side of the Civil War. A larger percentage of Congressional Republicans than Democrats voted for the Civil Rights Acts-- all of them. Republican presidents have appointed more minorities to positions of greater power than Democrat presidents.

But both parties also have some horrible demons in their past-- for example, Democrat Senator Byrd came to power as a KKK candidate, and recently retired Republican Senator Thurmond was a segregationist. But racism no longer represents the majority of either party-- I consider both parties about equal on race issues, or else I wouldn't vote for their candidates about equally. But I very often vote against both parties when both candidates are statists-- like John Kerry and George Bush.

Maybe I am the exception rather than the rule, but I still find it hard to believe that skin color is so deeply connected to brain power that everyone with the same skin color should think alike and vote alike. I just don't see that happening. In spite of their many flaws, primarily slavery, America's founders had an excellent plan for using liberty and opportunity to manage the melting pot. So long as their ideas continue to defeat those of Karl Marx, we'll be just fine, no matter what color the skin of our grandchildren.

As for your question about when whites become the minority, I must reiterate that most of my experience with America is in a place (south of San Antonio/SoSA) where whites have been in the minority from day one-- yet our elected representatives are always a good mix of men and women of all shapes and sizes, because superficial things are not much of a concern-- racists and race-baiters of any stripe have no chance of getting elected, so they don't run for office (or when they do, no one pays much attention to them).

The political landscape is about the same here as anywhere else in Texas (about 50% conservative, 40% liberal, 10% other) and each of these groups have about the same racial composition. That's probably what the rest of the country has to look forward to-- and I think it very closely resembles MLK's dream, whether or not the partisan extremists are willing to admit it.

Sure, our friends closer to the border have problems with the pachanga using illegal immigrants to stuff ballot boxes, and naturalization policy is too lax everywhere resulting in statists getting too many votes, but I don't need a paler shade of skin to know such problems need to be fixed.

I like the inscription on the Statue of Liberty, insofar as she calls out to law-abiding, legal immigrants who expect naturalization to take some time and effort on their part: "Give me your tired, your poor / your huddled masses yearning to breathe free / the wretched refuse of your teeming shores. Send these-- the hopeless, tempest-tossed-- to me. I lift my lamp beside the Golden Door."

I'd like to think America's Golden Door of opportunity is still open, even if our borders need to be closed.
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Zero Tolerance
post Jul 6 2005, 05:35 AM
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QUOTE
Huh? I know in the US we have put Hispanics into an ethnic group, but I really do not consider Hispanics a race. For example, the Irish were not considered white when they were immigrating to the US in large numbers.

The state of poverty does not discriminate. Poverty creates a whole laundry list of problems that do not have anything to do with race. Your thesis is based entirely on the fact that “minorities cannot behave themselves.”


A realise that i am Irish and Russian but have only experienced racism from black and hispanic people. Hispanics are a race. I also realise what poverty brings i was poor for a long time but i didn't use that as an excuse, when you start making excuses for people who do not want to change or better themselves when does it stop? They cant:

QUOTE

Blacks in the US are more likely to commit murder and other violent crimes (including rape) than anyone else...

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/ascii/htiuscdb.txt
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/ageracesex.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_oars.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_orace.htm

Blacks in the US commit more interracial crimes against Whites than vice versa…

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_ovrelrace.htm

Blacks in the US are more likely to commit infanticide than anyone else...

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homici...ren.htm#kidsrts
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homici...idsratestab.htm

Blacks in the US are more likely to spend time in jail than anyone else...

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/jailrair.htm

According to the 2000 Census, Blacks make up 12.3% of the US population. However, they have accounted for 368,169 (40%) of the 929,985 estimated AIDS cases diagnosed since the epidemic began.

Black men are seven times more likely than White men to have AIDS, and black women are 19 times more likely than White women to have AIDS, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention…

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/pubs/Facts/afam.htm



In regards to hispanics in crime they are lumped together with whites SOMETIMES in stats for how many hispanic and white people are in prison or what crimes they have commited you cant tell them apart.


QUOTE
That is an ignorant and uninformed train of thought.  I am surprised anyone would even write something like that in today's society.  Do you have some statistics that back that up?



http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports....E20040702a.html

QUOTE
'Taken care of at home'

Parents have to take charge of their children as part of a "parent power" plan, according to Cosby.

"You going to tell me that you are going to drop out of school? You are going to tell me that you are going to steal from a store? These things need to be taken care of in the home," he said to applause.

"Where did we get so comfortable -- when and who gave us the word that said, 'You don't need to know how to read and write again?'" Cosby asked.

"Before you get to the point where you say, 'I can't do nothing with them,' I am just saying, 'Do something with them,'" he added.


Words from the horses mouth so to speak what did they do to him when all he did was tell the truth call him an "uncle tom" and turn their backs on the poor guy. Blacks don't like being told the truth and maybe you don't either..... ermm.gif

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...24/112510.shtml

QUOTE

"Dropout factories" is how a new Harvard study describes some California schools, finding that dropout rates for Latinos and black students are abysmal. Just 50.2 percent of black boys who entered ninth grade in the Golden State received a diploma four years later.

The dropout problem on the whole has been underestimated, says The Civil Rights Project of Harvard University, which called for improvements to dropout rate calculation methods and more accountability over the high number of dropouts.


QUOTE
They also found that graduation rates for minori students were significantly lower - 57 percent rate for blacks, 60 percent for Hispanics and 52 percent for American Indians.


http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2005/dropout2001/sec_3.asp

QUOTE
In October 2001, some 3.8 million 16- through 24-year-olds were not enrolled in a high school program and had not completed high school (status dropouts). These individuals accounted for 10.7 percent of the 35.2 million 16- through 24-year-olds in the United States in 2001 (tables A and 3). As noted with event rates, this estimate is consistent with the estimates reported over the last 10 years


QUOTE
The status dropout rate of Whites remains lower than that of Blacks, but over the past 30 years the difference between the rates of Whites and Blacks has narrowed . However, this narrowing of the gap occurred during the 1980s; since 1990, the gap between Whites and Blacks has remained fairly constant. In addition, Hispanics in the United States continued to have relatively high status dropout rates when compared to Whites, Blacks, or Asians/Pacific Islanders


As for personal experience i once had to go to hospital i was in the waiting room and there was a black woman with her child there as well (don't know what for) but then her husband/boyfriend/pimp whatever, came in he looked fine then all of a sudden he starts screaming and yelling and punching the walls you want to know why? because he thought the way she was holding his son would TURN THE BOY GAY!!!. I couldn't believe it and just sat there laughing. Also ask a few mixed people who have lived in the projects and end up becoming successful i used to have a few mixed friends who disliked some blacks more then me.

This post has been edited by Zero Tolerance: Jul 6 2005, 05:39 AM
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CruisingRam
post Jul 6 2005, 05:50 AM
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I have to say I would be much more fearful of a nation of white poeple with the attitudes and ideals that you have posted here than living in the middle of a middle class nieghborhood of any ethnicity. thumbsup.gif

I don't live in a Gated community, I live 5 blocks from Catholic social service, 6 blocks from a last chance primary school for kids that act out and get kicked out of other schools.

Property values are astronomical here in Anchorage- not quite Silicon valley yet- but getting there- 110 bucks a square foot for pretty much any home in Anchorage.

There is alot of racial blending in my neighborhood, and I am an extreme minority in my workplace- with only about 20 percet of the entire workforce at my job being white straight males.

that is the interesting part about America and stereotypes- I have worked in and around social services due to my job- case workers, social workers, nurses, psych techs- it seems if the job is kinda thankless, doesn't pay too bad, and requires that you have a pretty high threshhold tolerance for self destrucitve behaviors, then minorites really outnumber whites. I have no idea if this is a stat that travels nationwide- but minorities are way over-represented in jobs with high sense of personal satisifaction for helping others much less fortunate than yourself, but no prestige,

Is this my turn to make a generalization about other races and speculate that minorities seem to be more forgiving of mans failings and more forgiving when wronged? Maybe white poeple are just too stuck on themselve and thier material lives to help others without some seriuos prestige or pay?

Sounds kinda ridiculous to me- but, putting racial stereo types on the broad array of behaviors within any sub group is pretty silly.

I hope those brown skinned folks keep having babies and hurry up and turn our country blue again! thumbsup.gif
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lederuvdapac
post Jul 6 2005, 05:54 AM
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*drum roll* And the award for the most racially ignorant member goes to...

QUOTE(Zero Tolerance)
A realise that i am Irish and Russian but have only experienced racism from black and hispanic people. Hispanics are a race. I also realise what poverty brings that i was poor for a long time but i didn't use that as an excuse, when you start making excuses for people who do not want to change or better themselves when does it stop? They cant:


Who is "they" exactly? You talk as if african-americans and hispanics are from mars. Like they invaded your home and rubbed their germs all over your stuff. All the stats you have shown don't show anything. Look i am from a middle class town and live in a neighborhood almost entirely of whites. So i am no expert about race relations. But what you are proposing is that people of another race are somehow inferior to you. That when they eventually become the majority that the country will crumble and fall. What you do not take into account is that these people are Americans. They are your countrymen.

Every race has certain societal problems. Some...more than others. Do i think that the black community has a problem with the family structure? Yes i do. Do i believe that minorities are having problems with crime and education? Yes i do. But in no way are these not problems that can be solved when society decides it MUST be solved.

You are just a bigot...and thats as blunt as it can get. You base your ignorance on a ridiculous personal experience, statistics that hardly tell the whole truth, and probably watching too much television.

WE are a society. WE are in it together whether you like it or not. If ever our freedom was threatened...do you think it matters if the person next to you is black, hispanic, asian, exc...? No...all that matters is that you are two americans side by side for freedom.
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post Jul 6 2005, 06:56 AM
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QUOTE(Zero Tolerance @ Jul 5 2005, 05:30 AM)
The Census Bureau says the country will be majority minority by the year 2035.
Here's the data state by state. 

California already was majority minority, and Hawaii was never majority White:

*



That "majority minority" hasn't done too bad actually. California's 1.33 Trillion dollar economy ranks 5th in the world in GDP behind the US, Japan, Germany and the UK. Not bad for a state with a "majority minority", not too bad at all. Kinda hard to figure out how that happened with all those brown non-people that live here........
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