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> "I have a winning temperament", Who won the first debate?
Who won the September 26 debate?
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Curmudgeon
post Sep 27 2016, 02:32 PM
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QUOTE
Temperament means the usual attitude, mood, or behavior of a person.

Searches for this term increased 78 times over Merriam-Webster's hourly average. Trump repeated this word five times during the debate, saying, "I think my strongest asset by far is my temperament. I have a winning temperament."
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That was the point where the discussion in our living room turned to a serious discussion of whether Trump would return for the next two debates, or will someone photoshop Donald Trump into the footage of Dukakis with his head sticking out of a tank, with a sound track saying saying on a loop, "I think my strongest asset by far is my temperament." We concurred that he will return for the next two debates simply because his ego and his managers will assure him that he won.


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Gray Seal
post Sep 27 2016, 03:53 PM
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From the debate it is clear we have two candidates who lack the knowledge and ideology to be President of the United States. One is absent any knowledge of economics while the other is uncertain. Both think authoritarian control is the means to a better society as neither values freedom. One will exacerbate military actions around the world while the other has no plans to end them. Both hide information from the public. Transparent not. Both have little respect for average Americans. They both put themselves on a pedestal looking down upon the 99%.
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Hobbes
post Sep 27 2016, 05:36 PM
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QUOTE(Curmudgeon @ Sep 27 2016, 09:32 AM) *
QUOTE
Temperament means the usual attitude, mood, or behavior of a person.

Searches for this term increased 78 times over Merriam-Webster's hourly average. Trump repeated this word five times during the debate, saying, "I think my strongest asset by far is my temperament. I have a winning temperament."
(
link)

That was the point where the discussion in our living room turned to a serious discussion of whether Trump would return for the next two debates, or will someone photoshop Donald Trump into the footage of Dukakis with his head sticking out of a tank, with a sound track saying saying on a loop, "I think my strongest asset by far is my temperament." We concurred that he will return for the next two debates simply because his ego and his managers will assure him that he won.



Ya, I thought he had a decent point to make there, but simply stating it didn't make it. Kind of summed up Trump's performance...he had a lot of things he could have had good points on, but often it got lost in his response. About the only thing he stayed on point on was pointing out that Hillary is part of the establishment, and hence part of the problem.

I thought Hillary did great at maintaining an overall posiitive, likeable demeanor, and was much more on point with her points against Trump. Perhaps too much so sometimes...you don't want to come off as canned.

Overall, I would probably give the nod to Hillary, but lots of room for improvement from Trump, and I'm not seeing much else for Hillary. But, will Trump be able to deliver? No idea. Meaning...the next debate is likely to garner just as much interest as the first one. Had either side scored a resounding victory, the interest, and even need, for the other debates would have waned.

QUOTE(Gray Seal @ Sep 27 2016, 10:53 AM) *
From the debate it is clear we have two candidates who lack the knowledge and ideology to be President of the United States. One is absent any knowledge of economics while the other is uncertain. Both think authoritarian control is the means to a better society as neither values freedom. One will exacerbate military actions around the world while the other has no plans to end them. Both hide information from the public. Transparent not. Both have little respect for average Americans. They both put themselves on a pedestal looking down upon the 99%.


This is why I was tempted to select 'Johnson' as the winner in the poll.
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AuthorMusician
post Sep 28 2016, 02:52 AM
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Clinton let Trump scamper about like a puppy, then schooled him on what it takes to be good debater. The lesson went right over his head, but he felt something. Not sure what, but getting caught in a riptide is probably similar. He floundered after that and topped it off with babbling.

She won the debate because she actually enjoys exposing nimrods for what they really are. Her performance was world class, whereas Trump's was typical for a middle school student in his first ever attempt at debate. He came on too strong too early and was tapped out within the first half hour. It's a very common mistake.

It's also probable that his earlier debates were with lightweights, so he underestimated Clinton. After all, she's just a stupid, fat, liberal cow.

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Mrs. Pigpen
post Sep 28 2016, 11:12 AM
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QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Sep 27 2016, 09:52 PM) *
It's also probable that his earlier debates were with lightweights, so he underestimated Clinton. After all, she's just a stupid, fat, liberal cow.


I think he underestimated her also. If I wasn't familiar with the candidates at all and I was just watching this as an outsider, I'd say she definitely won.
I was pretty surprised she looked better than I've seen her in a long while (her makeup person probably got some ideas from Death Becomes Her).
She smiled a little much, and her eyes didn't match it so it was a little creepy.
But Trump looked no better (probably worse), and he missed every single slow pitch to him. And there were a LOT of slow pitches he should have known were coming.
He could have knocked it out of the park, and still been respectful. Just based on her record.

The nadir happened about the time she accused him of past racism and he answered by referring to the club he started up in Palm Beach that allows black people and Muslims in it.
Seriously...that is the rough equivalent of "nu, uh, I know black people and Muslims! Sometimes if they are rich enough I let them into my clubs!"
CRINGEWORTHY.
To say he didn't bring his A game would be an understatement.
I'm not sure I've ever seen his A game.

The interviewer was obviously biased and it wasn't subtle. But Trump should have expected that.

This post has been edited by Mrs. Pigpen: Sep 28 2016, 11:14 AM
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AuthorMusician
post Sep 28 2016, 07:24 PM
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QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Sep 28 2016, 07:12 AM) *
To say he didn't bring his A game would be an understatement.
I'm not sure I've ever seen his A game.

We humans often reflect on what we could have and should have said. Judging by Trump's reflection, that he should have brought up her husband's infamous infidelity, leads me to conclude that his A-game wouldn't hold water in a middle-school debate, let alone a national one watched by tens of millions of potential voters.

His stated reason was not to hurt Chelsea's feelings, as if she were a ten-year-old child. She must have gotten a good chuckle out of that one. Had he brought this A-game, HRC would have brought up his failed marriages, probably, and the questions that follow as to why he's such a failure at relationships. You know, along with all the business bankruptcies. And then there's that creepy incest vibe along with rape charges, which I'd bring up but maybe not HRC. She knows exactly when enough has been said, as opposed to Trump who interrupted her way more often than she interrupted him. Trump also talked over the moderator, which is begging for retribution from the moderator--a registered Republican, but more significantly, a human being.

Apparently Trump will prepare for the next debate, but don't expect any improvement. He just isn't very good at it, especially with all that muddy thinking he twits about. He's also not very good at public speaking, unless one thinks demagogic ranting is good stuff. Some people do but not enough to win the election. This isn't pre-Nazi Germany, yet for some reason Trump thinks it is. I'm basing this on his campaign themes to date, which amount to what he told black voters:

Paraphrased: Your lives suck, so why not Trump? What have you got to lose?

Answer: Our lives don't suck, and we stand to lose our democratic republic, even civilizations across the globe, with your finger on the nuclear button. Trump, you're just not mentally stable enough to be POTUS, and this is a fact you cannot hide, nor can your handlers spin it away.

The more Trump speaks, the more apparent this becomes. And now the electorate is paying attention. While he might get to live on Pennsylvania Avenue, he will remain worlds away from the Oval Office and a few universes away from the nuclear codes.

Good.
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Mrs. Pigpen
post Sep 29 2016, 12:18 PM
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Maybe we should try four years with NO president.

Trump shouldn't have brought up infidelity issues (in the sense of personal character flaw...she picked 'im badly, but that's not the problem), but he could have brought up the numerous sexual assault and sexual harassment claims against her husband.
In the context that her reaction didn't exactly support "team woman" unless team woman shut up and took it.
Certainly his consensual adultery was ipso facto exploitive when it was with a subordinate under his authority. Does Hillary support sexual exploitation of women from their bosses?
She did in his case and yes it matters...particularly when she's claiming to speak for Team Woman.

So...nutshell: Does it matter that her husband likes to keep a bunch of side pieces?
No, not really.
Does it matter that he has a history checkered with the sexual exploitation of women under his authority and she has enabled it both actively and passively?
Yes. Very much yes.

This post has been edited by Mrs. Pigpen: Sep 29 2016, 01:56 PM
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AuthorMusician
post Sep 29 2016, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Sep 29 2016, 08:18 AM) *
Maybe we should try four years with NO president.

Trump shouldn't have brought up infidelity issues (in the sense of personal character flaw...she picked 'im badly, but that's not the problem), but he could have brought up the numerous sexual assault and sexual harassment claims against her husband.
In the context that her reaction didn't exactly support "team woman" unless team woman shut up and took it.
Certainly his consensual adultery was ipso facto exploitive when it was with a subordinate under his authority. Does Hillary support sexual exploitation of women from their bosses?
She did in his case and yes it matters...particularly when she's claiming to speak for Team Woman.

So...nutshell: Does it matter that her husband likes to keep a bunch of side pieces?
No, not really.
Does it matter that he has a history checkered with the sexual exploitation of women under his authority and she has enabled it both actively and passively?
Yes. Very much yes.

I agree that HRC doesn't talk for all women, Team Woman as you put it. Trump speaks even less so for the Team and has pretty much the same weaknesses that Bill Clinton has, so there it is.

Regarding Team Woman, who is in favor of equal pay for equal work? Who wants to make it easier for women to report rapes? Who supports a woman's right to reproductive health and choice? Who wants to give service women the same opportunities as service men? Who thinks the Pope should someday be a woman? Well, that last one is just me, probably. But then I think any deity who creates life has got to be female.

If it were left to a male deity, there wouldn't be anything but bikes, beer, bourbon, buds, broads and barbecue. Throw a ton of bucks in there too for attracting hookers who otherwise wouldn't give a first glance. I of course am using hyperbole here, but not a whole lot. There are many decent men in the world. Trump just isn't one of them.

So going down the road of Bill's stink sticking to Hillary is asking for a ton of bricks to fall squarely on the old hair plugs. Trump will therefore do it. He simply isn't very bright and, contrary to what he believes about himself, is easy to bait.

Meanwhile, it's obvious that HRC honored her marriage vows. That's a bad thing? Bill didn't trade her in for a newer model. Also bad? They built a real foundation that has saved lots of lives and continues to do good work in a world full of evil little tyrants. Bad stuff, or maybe exactly why they've stuck together through thick and thin?

What has Donald accomplished during his decades on this planet? Made money, avoided taxes, played golf, became a reality TV star, kissed a lot of girls and made them cry? You know, tears of anger and shame. What a guy.
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