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> Will White People Riot if McCain Loses?, Who will lose it and go off?
nighttimer
post Oct 30 2008, 07:33 PM
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Newspaper columnist Wendi C. Thomas writing for The Root.com speculated on what might happen if Barack Obama lost the election.

Oct. 20, 2008-- "Would black people riot if Sen. Barack Obama didn't win the election?" That was the question a white man in Memphis recently asked a racial reconciliation group with which I am involved.

After five years of being a columnist for the daily paper in Memphis, I wasn't surprised by the absurdity of his query. Many whites still labor under the illusion that black folk act en masse and that if you ask the right one, you can get the official position of some 40 million people. If a few of us get angry, that logic allows, it must surely result in a riot.

The reply to the curious white gentleman: "No! There is no reason to believe black people will riot if Obama does not win."

But soon after getting this man's e-mail, I started to wonder if he was on to something, if he had noticed what I had: a seething, barely constrained, ugly anger and frustration that makes good riot fuel. The kind of anger that prompts people to shout "Kill him!" and "Off with his head!" at rallies. The kind of hatefulness that would prompt a man to bring a stuffed monkey with an "Obama" sticker on the toy's head to a campaign event.

That kind of group-fueled nastiness must surely beg the question: Will white people riot if Obama wins?
link

In what has been a highly volatile campaign there have been numerous reports of racially motivated ugliness directed at Barack Obama. Some of the low points include the Ashley Todd hoax, the ATF arresting two skinheads who wanted to kill Obama along with shooting 88 people and decapitating 14 African-Americans and Obama being hung in effigy on the University of Kentucky campus.

The question for debate:

1. What's more likely? John McCain loses and White people riot or Barack Obama loses and Black people riot?

2. If neither scenario occurs, is that a sign of progress and maturity?
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carlitoswhey
post Nov 1 2008, 08:03 PM
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I personally think that neither scenario is likely. I have been very, very disturbed by the thoughts expressed around Chicago and the Grant Park celebration event. We are going to have 60,000 ticketed attendees, all of whom have undergone some level of background check before receiving their ticket. Outside the official gathering, we are going to have a lot of church groups, democratic activists, political junkies, hangers-on, and probably a few troublemakers.

IF (huge freaking if) Obama were to lose and make a consolation speech to this group, something bad could possibly happen. This is Chicago, after all, where we have had exuberant Cub fans tipping cars over when they won the division in 1989. Bulls "fans" tore through my neighborhood on a bit of a vandalism kick in 1991 and kinda-sorta rioted on the West Side in 1991 or 1992 (I'm pretty sure). Naturally, classy White Sox fans had no problems when we won the World Series in 2005.

Am I personally worried about tens of thousands of disgruntled Obama voters streaming out of Grant Park were he to lose? A little. As said, there could be some troublemakers or even leaders caught up in emotion and inciting violence via their words (a la Al Sharpton). But it's not likely. It's going to be cold, and the attendees are going to be sober. That goes for a lot, in my book. Given that we have had one as recently as 1992, plus that mini-riot in Ohio - what - 10 years ago, I suppose it's possible. But not likely.

I am more worried about the many offers that I have received to go spend the night outside the city or in Indiana with friends, or to loan me firearms 'just in case.' Their true colors are showing with this stuff. Much like Obama's grandmother, these are 'typical white people' who still genuinely fear a black riot.

That 'downtown' parking ban extends all the way to my place, 6 blocks south of where Grant Park starts and 16 blocks south of where Obama will be speaking. They are trying to clear the place out.
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net2007
post Nov 1 2008, 11:10 PM
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Nighttimer

QUOTE
The question for debate:

1. What's more likely? John McCain loses and White people riot or Barack Obama loses and Black people riot?

2. If neither scenario occurs, is that a sign of progress and maturity?




1. What's more likely? John McCain loses and White people riot or Barack Obama loses and Black people riot?


I'm going to hit this topic hard. I almost decided to make this post a forum but since you brought up the general topic I'll go ahead and post it here.

I wouldn't be surprised if some people riot if either candidate wins. I want to show cases of liberal and conservative political partisanship and just plain ignorance that in some cases has lead to hateful remarks and ugly public displays in this election. I'll start with criticizing some of the things the left wing has said and done this election and follow it up with cases of the right wing doing similar things to back my case. I believe rioting is just as likely to occur out of political partisanship, as racism, if it happens.

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-pa...0,1328064.story

I'll begin with the above story that was reported after someone decided to hang a Mannequin that looked like Sarah Palin by a noose from their house, and show John McCain being burned in their chimney. A video report of the display is at the link.

Although this display was said to be done in the spirit of Halloween, I believe its idiotic. A practice of their constitutional rights, but still idiotic. These are obviously not McCain/Palin fans if you ask me, in any case its just a stupid thing to do.

I nearly fell out my seat laughing when their neighbor was interviewed in this report, and its because of what she said about this display. She said "Sarah Palin would probably find this to be funny, she's tough, she likes to kill stuff with a gun, but if were Barack Obama id burn the house down!" Then when she's asked by the reporter if thats a double standard, she replies "yup thats a double standard, what I just said was a double standard."

Lol, What a moron, I'm sorry but good gawd! I wonder if she even knows what a double standard is. The sad part is people like that will be voting for both candidates this election.

Lets go from the stupid to the downright ugly now, I need to show this type of behavior coming from the left wing because many of our liberal members here aren't willing to do it. This all goes to show potential motive by the way. Ugliness, Stupidity, and Hate, in relation to an election are just the types of things that could trigger a riot if one should occur.

The following picture is one of presidential nominee John McCain. It was edited by Jill Greenberg, to make him look like something out of a zombie movie.
Its McUnDead! Not to be confused with the more likable Mick Dundee of Australia. Now I've shown this before and it is graphic and a bit scary so don't let the kids see it for anyone who has them......

http://dancheek.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/j...g-mccain-photo/

Most pictures that were shot of McCain by Jill Greenberg did not make it into the intended source "The Atlantic" and were originally just made in poor lighting from what I understand. Then she later took them and edited them to make him look like a devil which can be read here.....

http://www.pdnpulse.com/2008/09/how-jill-greenb.html

You also learn that she is a Democrat and very anti-McCain and anti-Bush. Very sick stuff in any case.




Now here is Comedian Sandra Bernhard. She has some very insightful views about Sarah Palin. Sarcasm, but take a look...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=US8UUC0lEzI

Now here is another person who perverts and distorts what many decent McCain/Palin critics and more specifically what decent liberal Americans say they stand for. Those concepts include in many cases things like open mindedness, and progressiveness, or racial sensitivity. Sandra Bernhard later said that if Sarah Palin ever visited New York she would be "Gang Raped by my Big black brothers" I'm not African American, but thats obviously racist and I'm sure thats offensive to many Black men. Here is that story being reported.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGhoYT84Jeg


To end this part of the post I have one last video, this one is crucial. Ive also shown it once before. This video is important because it shows liberals in New York city by the hundreds, if not thousands, responding to McCain campaign support marchers. The scene is one of not only excessive booing which is typical in a heated campaign, but you see people flipping off these McCain supporters. You hear comments like "McCain is a lying pig" one guy chants out "NAZI GERMANY! NAZI GERMANY!" Another guy says "this is our home get out of here"........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQalRPQ8stI

Why is that important? Well because Most of the media seems very interested when McCain supporters say stupid things about Obama. MSNBC sure plays the hell out of that, yet stories like the ones above are the ones that are often left out or lightly covered. I've spent a lot of my time taking an interest in this election and to me the slant in our media in general is painfully obvious. The most hated and criticized news network by the left has become FOX News. While I think they stretch reality by claiming to be 100% "fair and balanced" they have certainly beat the competition in terms of offering the most balanced coverage. The Pew research organization has backed that suspicion of mine with studies that show that the audience of Fox news is more politically diverse than either CNN or MSNBC. More recently the Center for Media and public affairs did a study that concluded that the coverage of this election was more evenly positive and negative on John McCain and Barack Obama by Fox News. Both these facts can be read about below.....

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/08/...s_watchers.html
http://www.cmpa.com/releases/07_12_21_Election_Study.pdf

I do give some credit to CNN as well, which I do watch a great deal. I don't want to get too side tracked here but the reason so many people call the media slanted to the left is because it is. So is Hollywood, I can see it everyday on television and in newspapers without even seeing these studies.

Anyway to get back on topic, most people who would flip off McCain marchers, and call them NAZI's, or create a picture of him that looks like a demon, or hang a Mannequin of Sarah Palin from a noose would either be a liberal, someone who opposes modern conservatism, or someone who doesn't take politics seriously. Ignorance and extreme partisan politics are the things that drive people to do the types of things you see above in most cases.

Now since I did say I wouldn't be surprised if some people riot if either candidate wins, lets now take a look at the other side of this because we also have idiots like Ashley Todd, who are obviously not liberal, but are willing to fake being attacked to hurt Obama's chances in this campaign as most of us have read about....

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/...8_10/015354.php

Thats freakin ridiculous, and that women gives me the creeps. She said "Lying is the most fun a girl can have without taking her clothes off, but its better if you do." First off not too many people probably want to see her without clothes, secondly that comment speaks much about her. Stupid in a word, and not a good lier either considering she has fun doing it.

Now I don't want to stop their either. I just gave many arguing points that show that the left wing has shown a great deal of ugliness this election that could potentially spawn riots if they lose a third straight election, so I want to make a real attempt here at criticizing the conservative base for similar behavior.

So we also had a woman at a McCain rally recently that called Obama an Arab. There are obviously some people that support McCain that believe things like that. I think Its a failure to take the time to look at Obama for who he is. I don't think he's a criminal, or a bad man, or an Arab. He is however our most liberal senator according to many which is a political negative from my standpoint. He also lacks experience for the position he's running for, which have been some of my key arguments.

This is a clip of the woman who called Obama an Arab........ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YIq5Q15L1o

Now I want to hit on one a little closer to home, literally. In North Carolina Elizabeth Dole, wife of former presidential candidate Bob Dole, is running for reelection in the senate against Kay Hagan. Dole recently ran an ad that faked Kay Hagan's voice to make it sound like she said "There is no God". I found this report about this particular smear Ad on youtube after I saw it on television. Youtube by the way comes in handy......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMzX_EAfwyc

I wanted to find the Bill O'Reilly report on this because it showed two side by side idiotic smear ad's from both a Democratic candidate and the one from Elizabeth Dole. His coverage of this election has been great about doing that type of thing which is why I watch his show regularly. He also mentioned the Dole ad because she featured him in it. He had no shortage of criticisms on it either. To get to the point, Ive looked into Kay Hagan and I don't like her much but for Elizabeth Dole to fake her voice in one of her campaign ad's is just wrong and It shouldn't have been done.

So there is some evidence of ugliness on both sides of politics, the left and right wing. Independents often demonstrate this as well, so Ive learned in debate. Based on the fundamental fact that we have ignorant people, hateful people, and stupid remarks flying in every direction here. I believe riots could occur in either scenario, because strong political partisanship has the tendency in some cases to create people so blind they either cant see that what they are doing is wrong, or don't care if what they are doing is wrong.

You titled this forum "Will White People Riot if McCain Loses" Then you composed a question that specifically ask what will blacks and whites do if McCain or Obama losses. I think partisan politics will motivate any potential riot every bit as much as race potentially could. While we cant forget organizations like the KKK that are motivated out of hatred for a race, We also cant forget about underground organizations like the Weatherman organization. They were a left wing organization motivated to bomb, kill, and riot, based almost entirely on political beliefs and a strong opposition to the concept of war.

I'll say it again, people like that completely distort the morals that liberals say they value. Left wing hypocrisy is a rather interesting phenomenon from those who display it. Whether it be someone talking about free speech yet displaying narrow mindedness towards non liberals, or people that protest the war yet use that to justify violent acts against their own government and towns. The conservatives have been labeled for years about things like narrow mindedness, and insensitivity to race yet its always been clear to me that the left wing rivals if not exceeds this kind of thing in many cases.

I think in general things have gotten better these days, but hate always lingers under the service, and unfortunately it probably always will to some extent. Hate and racism is not confined within artificial party lines or within race groups. Its been a fundamental part of the story of the human race since the beginning of recorded history. I say this from a scientific and historical standpoint.


You asked another question......

2. If neither scenario occurs, is that a sign of progress and maturity?

This country has already matured in countless ways in this respect, but yes I believe it will be one of many indicators of progress and maturity if we can get through this election without any significant rioting. I'm confident any rioting will be local and small scale, if it happens at all, but we will have to wait and see.

This post has been edited by net2007: Nov 2 2008, 12:00 AM
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smorpheus
post Nov 2 2008, 11:02 AM
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I'm a bit shocked it hasn't been brought up, but the last riot of note related to a major election was the infamous Brooks Brothers riot which stopped the recount in Florida.

http://www.someofnothing.com/2008/01/we-wi...s-brothers.html

So much for dems being more "emotional" as AMLord put it.

Now I'm not saying the riot was particularly violent or large, but it was a mob which effectively stopped the government from doing its job. (Those votes were never recounted.)

I would also point out the 1999 Seattle WTO protests were probably the last major violent domestic riots, and constituted of a majority of white protesters. I'm hard pressed to qualify those as true "riots" but I'm sure many conservative AD members have referred to the "political action" as just that in the past.

I think it's a bit disappointing to see fear related to riots because we have a black candidate running for president. If Hillary were running, this would be a non-issue. Sorry, but it's xenophobia and racism pure and simple.

BTW, in defense of the indefensible: I think those McCain pictures are fantastic. Greenberg is an amazing photographer, go to her website and check out her Arnie pic. While those pictures mean something negative politically in the present, they'll be looked back on as probably her greatest work as a portrait photographer. Doing things like that is what makes her an artist as opposed to a picture-taker. It's the difference between a paycheck and a legacy. I guarantee her Spock & Kirk shot won't be discussed in Art History classes across the country next year. The McCain series will.
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Bikerdad
post Nov 3 2008, 06:19 AM
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QUOTE(smorpheus @ Nov 2 2008, 06:02 AM) *
I'm a bit shocked it hasn't been brought up, but the last riot of note related to a major election was the infamous Brooks Brothers riot which stopped the recount in Florida.

http://www.someofnothing.com/2008/01/we-wi...s-brothers.html

So much for dems being more "emotional" as AMLord put it.

Now I'm not saying the riot was particularly violent or large, but it was a mob which effectively stopped the government from doing its job. (Those votes were never recounted.)

The reason you aren't saying that that it wasn't "particularly violent or large" is because it wasn't are riot. Perhaps if you linked to Gigot's actual piece, rather than a spin piece from the Village Voice, that would be pretty clear. It could have turned into one, may have come close to one, but it wasn't one. Still, its a good example in that it points to the problems that occur when a group feels that its "being jerked around."

QUOTE
I would also point out the 1999 Seattle WTO protests were probably the last major violent domestic riots,

Cincinatti, 2001, already noted. Toledo, 2005, already noted, although whether it would qualify as "major" is an open question.

QUOTE
and constituted of a majority of white protesters. I'm hard pressed to qualify those as true "riots" but I'm sure many conservative AD members have referred to the "political action" as just that in the past.
The WTO protests certainly weren't riots of the destructive scale of most of the riots I listed, but $2.5 million of damage from mass vandalism, er, "political action" certainly fits the definition.

1. a noisy, violent public disorder caused by a group or crowd of persons, as by a crowd protesting against another group, a government policy, etc., in the streets.
WTO Protests:
  • Noisy - check
  • Violent - check, check
  • Public - check, check, check
  • Disorderly - check
  • crowd - double check!
Yassireee Bob, we's gots us a riot here.

QUOTE
I think it's a bit disappointing to see fear related to riots because we have a black candidate running for president. If Hillary were running, this would be a non-issue.
I don't agree. I do think that blacks would be far less likely to riot if Hillary were the losing candidate, because they don't see her as "one of them"." The Left, on the other hand, would, I believe, be just as likely.

QUOTE
Sorry, but it's xenophobia and racism pure and simple.
QUOTE
Xenophobia has nothing whatsoever to do with it, nada, zip, zilch. Neither does racism, not in the sense that you charge. Its simply an understanding of group loyalties. As Nighttimer has rightly pointed out, aggrieved groups are more likely to riot. The constant refrain, both explicit and implied, that if Obama loses it will be because of racism, has primed an already quick to take offense community, to take offense if he loses. Add to the tinder the fact that as much as the black community may be fed up with being victimized (whether in reality or merely perceived doesn't matter), many whites, including millions who will be voting for McCain, are fed up with being villified as racists. Definitely a combustible combination. Toss in real racists (both white and black), generic agitators, anarchists, and it may be Chinese blessing time, i.e. we may be about to live through really interesting times.

QUOTE
BTW, in defense of the indefensible: I think those McCain pictures are fantastic. Greenberg is an amazing photographer, go to her website and check out her Arnie pic. While those pictures mean something negative politically in the present, they'll be looked back on as probably her greatest work as a portrait photographer. I guarantee her Spock & Kirk shot won't be discussed in Art History classes across the country next year. The McCain series will.
Oh, they probably will, which, ironically, undercuts your argument that they're "great work." Discussing them in an "Ethics of Portraiture" class would make sense. Discussing them in a composition class, or lighting class would make sense. But in a "Art History" class? Nope, not enough time has passed to rate it as "history."
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nighttimer
post Nov 3 2008, 07:57 AM
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QUOTE(Bikerdad @ Nov 1 2008, 04:12 AM) *
QUOTE
History doesn't lose its relevance simply due to the passage of time, quick and history proves that when sufficiently aggrieved, White people will lash out in violence just the same as Black people. - Nighttimer
Of course history loses its relevance. If it didn't, you'd probably avoid entering a black neighborhood in some American city other than your own for fear that they might take you captive and sell you to the white devils. devil.gif "ridiculous" you snort. Not really, because my example perfectly illustrates that situations change over time, and there are very few white Americans, well, to be more precise because it does matter in the context of this thread's question, white Republicans, who feel sufficiently aggrieved, and certainly they don't carry anywhere near the grievance baggage that the black community is toting about. Don't believe me? Look at yourself. You make a habit of reminding everybody here of all the grievances black Americans have.


History is always relevant, Bikerdad. You just have to look for what makes what has happened relevant to what is happening.

Please don't flatter yourself that your example perfectly illustrates anything more than an undeserved self-congratulatory smugness. White Republicans carry plenty of grievance. Against liberalism. Against the media. Against minorities, Against government, Against foreigners and other nations. Against a whole host of institutions, individuals and pretty much anything that isn't White, Republican and conservative.

Before net2007 jumps on me, let me add I don't mean every White Republican conservative is angry. But if I don't know anything else, after the time spent on this board, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt there are plenty of angry White Republican conservatives and some of them post on this board and in this thread.

It's amazing here we are less than 48 hours away from the election and there is not one poster on this board that will stand up and be counted in favor of the presidency of George W. Bush. NOT ONE.

There's a LOT of anger among White Republicans Bikerdad and it's not because of what liberals like me did to Bush. He's responsible for the dismal failure of his presidency and now even his own party's candidate won't say one word in defense of Bush.

That may be one reason why Barack Obama generates such belligerence at McCain/Palin rallies. It's all that misplaced anger at Bush looking for an outlet and since liberals, Blacks and Democrats always make good scapegoats for the right, a liberal Black Democrat is too big a target to ignore.

If I make a point of reminding others of the very real grievances still facing Black Americans, it's because too many White Americans like you say there areno more grievances.


QUOTE(Bikerdad @ Nov 3 2008, 01:19 AM) *
As Nighttimer has rightly pointed out, aggrieved groups are more likely to riot. The constant refrain, both explicit and implied, that if Obama loses it will be because of racism, has primed an already quick to take offense community, to take offense if he loses. Add to the tinder the fact that as much as the black community may be fed up with being victimized (whether in reality or merely perceived doesn't matter), many whites, including millions who will be voting for McCain, are fed up with being villified as racists. Definitely a combustible combination. Toss in real racists (both white and black), generic agitators, anarchists, and it may be Chinese blessing time, i.e. we may be about to live through really interesting times.


Millions of Whites whom you say are being vilified as racists "may be fed up with being victimized" but they won't act up about it despite being one of the "aggrieved groups" you agree with me about?

Such politeness in the face of what should provoke an choleric response should be applauded, but frankly I find it hard to believe. dry.gif
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net2007
post Nov 5 2008, 10:09 PM
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So anyone hear of any rioting or what? Nighttimer since this was your thread and you and Turnea are often talking about how much your race is held back by whites, what do you think so far? What do you think of Barack Obama becoming president and getting such an enthusiastic portion of the white vote? I haven't heard about any out of control riots so what are your thoughts on that?
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turnea
post Nov 5 2008, 11:33 PM
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QUOTE(net2007 @ Nov 5 2008, 04:09 PM) *
So anyone hear of any rioting or what? Nighttimer since this was your thread and you and Turnea are often talking about how much your race is held back by whites, what do you think so far? What do you think of Barack Obama becoming president and getting such an enthusiastic portion of the white vote? I haven't heard about any out of control riots so what are your thoughts on that?

I don't think either of us predicted any rioting so I find your questioning a bit misdirected.

Neverthless, you owe me one penny for my thoughts.

No rioting? That's nice.

Obama getting 40% of the white vote? Stellar!

As good as Gore.

Should have been higher considering the circumstances but gift horses you know...

This post has been edited by turnea: Nov 5 2008, 11:36 PM
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Ted
post Nov 6 2008, 12:36 AM
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QUOTE(turnea @ Nov 5 2008, 06:33 PM) *
QUOTE(net2007 @ Nov 5 2008, 04:09 PM) *
So anyone hear of any rioting or what? Nighttimer since this was your thread and you and Turnea are often talking about how much your race is held back by whites, what do you think so far? What do you think of Barack Obama becoming president and getting such an enthusiastic portion of the white vote? I haven't heard about any out of control riots so what are your thoughts on that?

I don't think either of us predicted any rioting so I find your questioning a bit misdirected.

Neverthless, you owe me one penny for my thoughts.

No rioting? That's nice.

Obama getting 40% of the white vote? Stellar!

As good as Gore.

Should have been higher considering the circumstances but gift horses you know...

QUOTE
Obama getting 40% of the white vote? Stellar!

As good as Gore
.

And I heard he got a majority of whites who make over 200K/yr. So he certainly sold them.

Now all he has to do is deliver – and there will be no excuses with the huge Dem majority in the Congress.

His “slack" will be 6 months tops imo.

Can’t wait to see the fires bills introduced next year. That will tell us a whole lot.

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nighttimer
post Nov 7 2008, 06:31 AM
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QUOTE(net2007 @ Nov 5 2008, 05:09 PM) *
So anyone hear of any rioting or what? Nighttimer since this was your thread and you and Turnea are often talking about how much your race is held back by whites, what do you think so far? What do you think of Barack Obama becoming president and getting such an enthusiastic portion of the white vote? I haven't heard about any out of control riots so what are your thoughts on that?


I never said White people were going to riot if Obama won, net2007.

I was pointing out they were just as likely to get drunk, get angry and act a fool as Black people if they didn't get their way.

You think I'm disappointed there were no appreciable acts of violence? How cynical do you think I am?

How cynical are you?

This post has been edited by nighttimer: Nov 7 2008, 07:03 AM
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post Nov 7 2008, 04:54 PM
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If neither scenario occurs, is that a sign of progress and maturity?

I only wish that this were the case.

A lack of violence in the streets is certainly a good thing, believe me. But I'm afraid the maturity level of some of those on the right is at an all-time low. To wit:

I sent an email to my sister in Florida on election night, noting that Obama won, and that her state flipped blue, helping Democrats in the effort. I offered my condolences to her, as I knew she was a McCain supporter, and said, "better luck next time". Her reply was to tell me to drop dead, and not bother to ever contact her again.

My daughter has had a few of her "friends" on MySpace and FaceBook drop her from their friend lists, because the were McCain supporters and my daughter voted for Obama.

My wife tells me that an older McCain supporter where she works told someone who was a known Obama supporter that he hoped he was happy voting in the next "Socialist in Chief", and then called the guy a "n-word lover".

Riots not occurring may be a good thing, but we have a long way to go before we get "progress and maturity".

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post Nov 7 2008, 05:12 PM
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QUOTE(Bikerdad @ Nov 3 2008, 01:19 AM) *
The reason you aren't saying that that it wasn't "particularly violent or large" is because it wasn't are riot. Perhaps if you linked to Gigot's actual piece, rather than a spin piece from the Village Voice, that would be pretty clear. It could have turned into one, may have come close to one, but it wasn't one. Still, its a good example in that it points to the problems that occur when a group feels that its "being jerked around."

Jerked around? I see. When clean looking whites commit disorderly conduct during recounts we should give them the benefit of the doubt and regard their rebellion as a good thing for democracy. Oh, those poor oppressed "local" white voters in Dade County that just happened to be Republican operatives. After helping Bush get elected they had to settle for gainful employment at the White House and as private lobbyists.

We know what kind of reception poor (clean or otherwise) oppressed "local" black voters would receive if they pulled a stunt like that, and God forbid Obama reward such blind partisanship with sweet federal jobs.

Gotta give credit to the Wall Street Journal for making sure the wingnut contagion stays in the opinion section.

In other news, hey look Michelle Malkin: blacks didn't riot.

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net2007
post Nov 7 2008, 08:53 PM
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turnea

QUOTE(turnea @ Nov 5 2008, 07:33 PM) *
QUOTE(net2007 @ Nov 5 2008, 04:09 PM) *
So anyone hear of any rioting or what? Nighttimer since this was your thread and you and Turnea are often talking about how much your race is held back by whites, what do you think so far? What do you think of Barack Obama becoming president and getting such an enthusiastic portion of the white vote? I haven't heard about any out of control riots so what are your thoughts on that?

I don't think either of us predicted any rioting so I find your questioning a bit misdirected.

Neverthless, you owe me one penny for my thoughts.

No rioting? That's nice.

Obama getting 40% of the white vote? Stellar!

As good as Gore.

Should have been higher considering the circumstances but gift horses you know...


Well I'm glad you see it like that, congrats on the Obama victory by the way.

Nighttimer

QUOTE
I never said White people were going to riot if Obama won, net2007.

I was pointing out they were just as likely to get drunk, get angry and act a fool as Black people if they didn't get their way.

You think I'm disappointed there were no appreciable acts of violence? How cynical do you think I am?


How cynical are you?



Well I can be cynical when need be. I didn't say you or Turnea were disappointed whites didn't hit the streets rioting, I would hope that wouldn't be true, and I also don't specifically remember you saying whites would no doubt riot if Obama wins, but I consider the following as well when raising the simple questions I did above.....

You and Turnea are two of this sites members that debate matters of race probably more than anyone else here. There's nothing wrong with that by the way, but Ive read many of these race related post from both of you. Its clear to me from things both of you have said and argued over time that you both hold resentment towards whites and conservatives. It didn't take an IQ of 160 to figure that out either. There is a contrast in the standards you two apply to whites and blacks as races, which involves a lot of hypocrisy. Thats why I've debated both of you persistently and cynically at times. Same goes with members like Dontreadonme in regards to the Iraq war. You once asked me if I draw comparisons with you and Turnea to Al Sharpton because your black men, and jumping to conclusions like that is quite common from you and Turnea.

So Is it cynical to figure that I criticize you both simply because your black? Id say so.

Like I said I can be cynical, but then again so can you.

This post has been edited by net2007: Nov 7 2008, 08:56 PM
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turnea
post Nov 7 2008, 10:44 PM
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QUOTE(net2007)
Its clear to me from things both of you have said and argued over time that you both hold resentment towards whites and conservatives.

I have never expressed resentment towards either group.

My best friend is in fact a white conservative (cliche I know, but true). I just got done playing a jeopardy game with one of my black republican friends, he beat me in final jeopardy (I always bet low).

QUOTE(net2007)
It didn't take an IQ of 160 to figure that out either

No I suppose it doesn't take a genius to be wrong.

This is the ad hominem game again.

I call skins!
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post Nov 7 2008, 11:10 PM
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QUOTE(net2007 @ Nov 7 2008, 09:53 PM) *
You and Turnea are two of this sites members that debate matters of race probably more than anyone else here. There's nothing wrong with that by the way, but Ive read many of these race related post from both of you. Its clear to me from things both of you have said and argued over time that you both hold resentment towards whites and conservatives. It didn't take an IQ of 160 to figure that out either. There is a contrast in the standards you two apply to whites and blacks as races, which involves a lot of hypocrisy. Thats why I've debated both of you persistently and cynically at times. Same goes with members like Dontreadonme in regards to the Iraq war. You once asked me if I draw comparisons with you and Turnea to Al Sharpton because your black men, and jumping to conclusions like that is quite common from you and Turnea.
turnea is the most even handed debator I've met. There is no mileage in the notion that he is biased just because of his race. Certainly he is motivated to debate the issue, but he never picks on people, never accuses people and nine times out of ten he will give you the benefit of the the doubt even if you should put your foot in your mouth. I've debated with him many times over many years now and I've never seen the bias of which you speak. If your seeing bias from turnea, then its most probably all in the eye of the beholder and you should step back and ask yourself, if your not the one who is biased.

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net2007
post Nov 7 2008, 11:50 PM
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QUOTE(turnea @ Nov 7 2008, 06:44 PM) *
QUOTE(net2007)
Its clear to me from things both of you have said and argued over time that you both hold resentment towards whites and conservatives.

I have never expressed resentment towards either group.

My best friend is in fact a white conservative (cliche I know, but true). I just got done playing a jeopardy game with one of my black republican friends, he beat me in final jeopardy (I always bet low).

QUOTE(net2007)
It didn't take an IQ of 160 to figure that out either

No I suppose it doesn't take a genius to be wrong.

This is the ad hominem game again.

I call skins!


ad hominem is as common in political debate as bringing newspaper to the toilet Turnea. This is because a persons words and actions over time can go a long way to determine things like personality and credibility, or motive. Im not making any wild out of line remarks about you, but when debating matters like race or politics I usually do consider things you've argued regularly in the past. You talk about me using ad hominem as if I don't debate the topic directly as well, which I do.

moif
QUOTE(moif @ Nov 7 2008, 07:10 PM) *
QUOTE(net2007 @ Nov 7 2008, 09:53 PM) *
You and Turnea are two of this sites members that debate matters of race probably more than anyone else here. There's nothing wrong with that by the way, but Ive read many of these race related post from both of you. Its clear to me from things both of you have said and argued over time that you both hold resentment towards whites and conservatives. It didn't take an IQ of 160 to figure that out either. There is a contrast in the standards you two apply to whites and blacks as races, which involves a lot of hypocrisy. Thats why I've debated both of you persistently and cynically at times. Same goes with members like Dontreadonme in regards to the Iraq war. You once asked me if I draw comparisons with you and Turnea to Al Sharpton because your black men, and jumping to conclusions like that is quite common from you and Turnea.
turnea is the most even handed debator I've met. There is no mileage in the notion that he is biased just because of his race. Certainly he is motivated to debate the issue, but he never picks on people, never accuses people and nine times out of ten he will give you the benefit of the the doubt even if you should put your foot in your mouth. I've debated with him many times over many years now and I've never seen the bias of which you speak. If your seeing bias from turnea, then its most probably all in the eye of the beholder and you should step back and ask yourself, if your not the one who is biased.


There is no mileage in the notion that he is biased just because of his race? Great, I agree.

When I mention a prior argument another member makes its always based on things they have said in debate here on this site. Sometimes I bring up a posters prior arguments and comments if they relate to the subject. Thats different than personally attacking or insulting someone. Does Turnea pick on people? No he doesn't pick on people, he's usually quite a respectable poster. This line of discussion began with the following post of mine........

So anyone hear of any rioting or what? Nighttimer since this was your thread and you and Turnea are often talking about how much your race is held back by whites, what do you think so far? What do you think of Barack Obama becoming president and getting such an enthusiastic portion of the white vote? I haven't heard about any out of control riots so what are your thoughts on that?

Thats asking questions, and the comment I made their is based on their post not their skin color. I take the time to read their post and yours when I can, in fact I dropped you a reply here that you never responded to......

http://www.americasdebate.com/forums/index...mp;#entry258383

So Ive been critical of some of your points on the U.S. as a superpower, and our space program, maybe thats why your jumping in here.

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BoF
post Nov 7 2008, 11:51 PM
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QUOTE(net2007 @ Nov 7 2008, 05:13 PM) *
ad hominem is as common in political debate as bringing newspaper to the toilet Turnea.

Oh, I didn't know taking the newspaper to the toilet was that common. It's not here in Texas. Are you out of reading material or toilet paper net? laugh.gif

Just in case you missed it net, you might want to consider what moif said before continuing this line of attack.

QUOTE(moif @ Nov 7 2008, 05:10 PM) *
turnea is the most even handed debator I've met. There is no mileage in the notion that he is biased just because of his race. Certainly he is motivated to debate the issue, but he never picks on people, never accuses people and nine times out of ten he will give you the benefit of the the doubt even if you should put your foot in your mouth. I've debated with him many times over many years now and I've never seen the bias of which you speak. If your seeing bias from turnea, then its most probably all in the eye of the beholder and you should step back and ask yourself, if your not the one who is biased.


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nighttimer
post Nov 8 2008, 06:26 AM
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QUOTE(net2007 @ Nov 7 2008, 03:53 PM) *
I didn't say you or Turnea were disappointed whites didn't hit the streets rioting, I would hope that wouldn't be true, and I also don't specifically remember you saying whites would no doubt riot if Obama wins, but I consider the following as well when raising the simple questions I did above.....

You and Turnea are two of this sites members that debate matters of race probably more than anyone else here. There's nothing wrong with that by the way, but Ive read many of these race related post from both of you. Its clear to me from things both of you have said and argued over time that you both hold resentment towards whites and conservatives. It didn't take an IQ of 160 to figure that out either. There is a contrast in the standards you two apply to whites and blacks as races, which involves a lot of hypocrisy.


I make no apologies and own none to you or anyone else for debating matters of race. You have the option not to read or involve yourself in those debates. The fact that you do as well is because you every bit as much as interested in race matters as anyone.

Race has to be discussed if it's ever going to be resolved. It's clear to me that you hold resentment toward Blacks who speak directly and not with deference about race. Call me a hypocrite to your little heart's content. You'll never be able to call me a liar.

The writer and activist James Baldwin said, "The paradox of education is precisely this - that as one begins to become conscious one begins to examine the society in which he is being educated." It is impossible for me as someone who is both educated and conscious not to examine what the popular sentiments are regarding race and as I do I find a great deal of beliefs that are held to be in error, unenlightened or downright ignorant. In this thread we have had a poster seriously suggest Blacks are "heathens" while another witty fellow says Blacks use any excuse to riot, rape, pillage and destroy."

Are you suggesting I'm supposed to ignore such appalling ignorance?

Suffice it to say, whether it's White liberals or White conservatives, I will never shy away from being anything less than candid when the conversation turns to race. I'm not here to be liked or voted The Member You'd Most Like to Have a Cold One with. I'm not here to be popular or be liked. I've reached a point in life where taking a principled stand is more important than a popular one.

I don't care if you think I "hold resentment towards Whites and conservatives." When someone is making statements such as the ones I've seen in this thread, I don't care what their race or political affiliations are, net2007. That kind of racially motivated animus will not go unchallenged and if that offends you, that's your problem. Work it out with yourself as best you can.
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post Nov 8 2008, 06:44 PM
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