logo 
spacer
  

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

If you have an opinion, you should share it! Register Now!

America's Debate hosts the best in news, government, and political debate. Register now to take part in the most civil and constructive debate on the Internet. Join the community, and get ready to be challenged!

Click here to start

> Sponsored Links

Register to remove these ads!
> Lessons from Vietnam, 9/11, middle-east, What do you think the country should have learned?
Gray Seal
post Sep 19 2017, 05:11 PM
Post #1


********
Millennium Mark

Group: Members
Posts: 2,405
Member No.: 335
Joined: December-12-02

From: Edwardsville, IL
Gender: Male
Politics: Undisclosed
Party affiliation: None



The PBS series on Vietnam began this week. I was not intending to watch the series but ended up putting it on when a football game ran over programming I had intended to watch. I learned facts I did not know.

I read this article which asked about lessons from 9/11.

That got me to thinking about the similarity of Vietnam history to more recent events or current events. How many times does a country have to repeat mistakes before its populace catches on?

From reading, I do know the idea of lessons from all of these three events (Vietnam, 9/11, middle-east) seems to vary greatly from individual to individual. I think the three share many lessons. But, I doubt all see those same lessons.



What lessons did you learn from these three foreign policy challenges?

Do you see much commonality?

If they are the same lessons, what will it take for Americans to care or expect new foreign policy?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
 
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 3)
Julian
post Sep 19 2017, 06:54 PM
Post #2


Group Icon

*********
Every day, when I wake up, I thank the Lord I'm Welsh

Group: Committee Members
Posts: 2,937
Member No.: 496
Joined: February-14-03

From: Swindon, UK
Gender: Male
Politics: Liberal
Party affiliation: Other



What lessons did you learn from these three foreign policy challenges?

Do you see much commonality?

If they are the same lessons, what will it take for Americans to care or expect new foreign policy?

In reply, I merely refer you to The Princess Bride:

QUOTE
Never get involved in a land war in Asia


That's it, really.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Trouble
post Sep 21 2017, 02:49 AM
Post #3


*******
Five Hundred Club

Group: Members
Posts: 740
Member No.: 1,142
Joined: September-6-03

From: Regina, Sk. Canada
Gender: Male
Politics: Moderate
Party affiliation: None



What lessons did you learn from these three foreign policy challenges?

There has been a change of priorities. While never articulated, the urge to micromanage much of the planet is in force while the results of the attempt are ignored. I for one would like to have a frank and open discussion with a Henry Kissinger or equal level bureaucrat to understand why the policy change went so aggressive. You won't get anywhere with someone from Shapiro's generation. After the Libyan adventure I began having sympathy towards the Empire of Chaos theory of why the ruling class is so addicted to regime change. The theory goes like this, the more chaos sown across the world, the greater the chances of dumping American fiat and products on a bloc of countries. It is the anti competition by default approach. In it the post ww2 of the last man standing scenario is the goal.



Do you see much commonality?

That is a broad question. I think one can argue in each instance a further weakening of the Constitution took place sliding the country towards a more command and control oriented society. The the corrosive slide into corruption began here.

From observations I have read these past years I could also include in each case:
-the failure to hold accountable those responsible for failure be they politicians or military officers.
-the failure to learn from mistakes and adjust strategies, while repeating certain actions over and over again and expecting a different result.
-with every intervention the corruption and profiteering grew worse, progressing into fraudulent schemes and outright theft of government property.


If they are the same lessons, what will it take for Americans to care or expect new foreign policy?

What I am about to say will sound very objectionable. The only way America can truly reassess its priorities is with a clear cut military loss. The change won't happen until the fingers start flying. The tool I am talking about is shame, and it is the only thing at this point which will force an internal review.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AuthorMusician
post Sep 22 2017, 09:35 AM
Post #4


**********
Glasses and journalism work for me.

Sponsor
November 2003

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 6,351
Member No.: 297
Joined: December-1-02

From: Blueberry Hill
Gender: Male
Politics: Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



What lessons did you learn from these three foreign policy challenges?

I was only 12 years old when my oldest brother started dealing with the Vietnam draft, circa 1964. The reality didn't register that I'd have to deal with it too until four years later, so here were my lessons learned over that time:

It was better to be studious than jockish, since college deferments were available and the military wanted athletic recruits.

Once in the military, it's real hard to get out. Not true about college -- harder to stay than to get out, which I learned quite a bit later than 1968. But I knew about my brother's attempts to get out of the 12-month Vietnam tour of duty after spending 18 months in Turkey.

Lessons learned later on: Our government lies to us regularly and easily. Protesting doesn't do much good, but it's extremely bad to let stuff slide. Protesting is like applying pressure on a bleeding wound -- just the first step toward fixing the problem.

With 9/11 I learned that karma is a bitch. Letting airlines control their own controllers via lobbyists means lax security, and that can be used against us.

I'll focus on Iraq for the ME. I learned that each generation has to make its own mistakes, but the stakes have risen. There's still wiggle room, but that's becoming a narrower passage as time goes on.


Do you see much commonality?

Yes, our government lies to us regularly and easily; protesting is but the first step; each generation has to make its own mistakes.

If they are the same lessons, what will it take for Americans to care or expect new foreign policy?

I don't see anything that will work other than failure of current policy leading to change, but that doesn't necessarily mean positive change. For examples, Donald Trump, TSA, militarized civil police -- and 9/11 stands alone as the greatest negative change in our society. Well, the Equifax thing could overshadow 9/11 and the economic meltdown of 2008. How much will massive freezing of credit histories impact the economy?

Well, how often does a person's credit history come into play for housing, education, landing jobs, driving cars?

On the upside, virtually everyone above the age of 18 or so has been impacted, so we are all in this boat together. It really doesn't matter what you believe, how you vote, what race or sexual orientation you are -- we will all be affected. Except maybe those with bad credit? Too soon to tell.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
2 User(s) are reading this topic (2 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

  
Go to the top of the page - Simple Version Time is now: July 20th, 2018 - 04:45 AM
©2002-2010 America's Debate, Inc.  All rights reserved.