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> The day after., So what's in store?
Dingo
post Dec 2 2016, 08:09 PM
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Looking to the future it might be interesting to speculate for better or worse just what is in store for America and the world in a Trump administration. Ralph Nader as one might expect has his opinion, particularly as regards to the workers who voted for him.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/02/tru...aying-makeover/

QUOTE
You can often see where a president-elect is going by his nominations to high positions in his forthcoming administration. Across over a dozen crucial posts, Mr. Trump has chosen war hawks, Wall Streeters (with a former Goldman Sachs partner, Steven Mnuchin, as his pick for Treasury Secretary) and clenched teeth corporatists determined to jettison life-saving, injury and disease preventing regulations and leave bigger holes in your consumer pocketbooks.
----------------------------------------------------
Fast forward several weeks and he has selected cabinet secretaries who want to dismantle the public school system with your taxes going to private schools, reduce regulation of banks, cut consumer protections and weaken labor laws and job safety standards. Other appointees say they want to privatize Medicare, which has led health insurance company stocks to soar, and some want to transfer Medicaid to even more hostile state manipulations.

Regarding national security, his White House advisors are advocates of imperial intervention and bombing Iran. Trump wants to renege on the Iran nuclear agreements the U.S. made with a dozen leading nations and risk escalation of hostilities. Granted, Trump did talk about the Iran deal, with little knowledge of its careful safeguards and ongoing implementation.
------------------------------------------------------
As an accomplished sleight-of-hand specialist – a failed gambling czar who always jumped ship with his gold and left his workers, creditors and shareholders stranded – Trump recently traveled to Indiana to brag about the decision by Carrier to keep intact 800 of the 2000 jobs it plans to ship to Mexico. You’ll recall Trump made Carrier, a subsidiary of giant United Technology (UT), his poster-child for showing how the U.S. is losing jobs under NAFTA.

Well Trump’s boast, for starters, will cost Indiana taxpayers $7 million for Carrier to agree, with presumably, additional goodies for United Technologies coming later. Already, UT and Carrier have long been loaded up with tax and other “incentives,” subsidies and all the complex corporate welfare that defense companies receive from the Pentagon.

Being a long-time recipient himself of crony capitalism, Trump hopes that his working class supporters will never catch on to this kind of back room “deal-making” when he is in the White House. Big corporations are drooling at the prospect of further tax cuts, weaker law and order (e.g. deregulation) and the many sub-visible freebies of the corporate welfare state.

Guess who gets left holding the bag? Why, you, of course, the workers and small taxpayers. Stay tuned, for more corporatists, Wall Streeters and militarists are on their way to Trump’s Washington.


Questions for discussion:

Where do you think things will get better under a Trump administration and where do you think they will get worse?

How do you think the environment will fare under a Trump administration?

What do you think will happen with deficits?

Do you think a conflict of interest and/or an additional vulnerability to terrorist attack on Trump properties will be a major concern in his administration?

Do you think based on his rhetoric and flip flops Trump will have a serious credibility problem?

If you voted for Trump or one of the 3rd party candidates or chose not to vote at all have you got any second thoughts on your decision?

This post has been edited by Dingo: Dec 2 2016, 09:16 PM
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akaCG
post Dec 2 2016, 10:12 PM
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Where do you think things will get better under a Trump administration and where do you think they will get worse?

BETTER:

Economically, just about everywhere. I expect GDP growth of at least 3% in 2017, and wouldn't be shocked to see a quarter here and there at 4%+ by the time of the 2018 mid-term elections. Millions of people will rejoin the workforce (note: depending on the speed with which they do, this might well result in an uptick in the unemployment rate for a while, but that is simply an artifact of how said rate is calculated).

Justice Alito's spot will be taken by a Justice who doesn't think that it's the Supreme Court's job to "modernize" the U.S. Constitution.

A whole bunch of people in the VA system will, finally, get the "You're fired" treatment.

The military will be having a lot less trouble meeting their recruitment goals.

That'll do for now.

WORSE:

Real estate prices in D.C. and adjoining counties might experience a bit of a softening.

How do you think the environment will fare under a Trump administration?

It will do just fine. Judging by the following statement (one of my favorites of the whole campaign, btw), "It used to be that cars were made in Flint, and you couldn't drink the water in Mexico. Now the cars are made in Mexico, and you can't drink the damn water in Flint!", it seems that Trump is in favor of clean water, big league.

What do you think will happen with deficits?

The federal budget deficit will probably go up somewhat at first, and then come down substantially as the increased revenues associated with stronger economic growth start kicking in.

Do you think a conflict of interest and/or an additional vulnerability to terrorist attack on Trump properties will be a major concern in his administration?

No, I don't.

Do you think based on his rhetoric and flip flops Trump will have a serious credibility problem?

No, I don't.

If you voted for Trump or one of the 3rd party candidates or chose not to vote at all have you got any second thoughts on your decision?

So far, none whatsoever.


ps:
From the Nader article cited in the OP:
QUOTE
...
Trump recently traveled to Indiana to brag about the decision by Carrier to keep intact 800 of the 2000 jobs it plans to ship to Mexico. You'll recall Trump made Carrier, a subsidiary of giant United Technology (UT), his poster-child for showing how the U.S. is losing jobs under NAFTA.

Well Trump's boast, for starters, will cost Indiana taxpayers $7 million for Carrier to agree, ...
...

First of all, it's not 800 jobs, but close to 1,100. But hey, let's call it an even 1,000.

Second of all, what Nader (note: he's by no means alone in this; most of the "news" deliverers/interpreters I've seen are guilty of it, as well) fails to mention is that said $7 million is spread over ... 10 years.

$7 million divided by 10 years divided by 1,000 workers = $700 per worker per year.

Now, ...

Indiana's population is about 6.6 million, 75% of which is over the age of 18 (i.e., of taxpaying-age, roughly). But let's say that only half of them actually pay taxes. End result:

$700 per worker per year/2.5 million taxpaying Hoosiers = $0.00028 per taxpaying Hoosier per year.

I'm pretty sure that said taxpaying Hoosiers are more than fine with the "hit" that their pocketbooks will experience as a result of 1,000 of their fellow Hoosiers and their families having just learned that they'll keep their jobs. Especially with Christmas coming' up an' all.



This post has been edited by akaCG: Dec 2 2016, 11:00 PM
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Dingo
post Dec 6 2016, 09:46 PM
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Questions for discussion:

Where do you think things will get better under a Trump administration and where do you think they will get worse?
Lets try joining them together. The British writer Samual Johnson said it well; in substance he remarked- "The knowledge that one is to be hanged the next morning wonderfully concentrates the mind." Each daily revelation from Trump and his announced appointments does have that effect along with his curious history. A number of possibilities occur to me which at least address overpopulation.
1. Human extinction
2. A return to a hunting and gathering scenario.
3. A Mad Max world.

It's hard to think of one appointment by Trump where the appointee appears appropriate to the job. For the unqualified folks out there with dreams beyond their capabilities I guess that enhances the possibilities. Hey, make me head of neuro-surgery in our local hospital. king.gif

How do you think the environment will fare under a Trump administration?
If I were younger I would accelerate my plans of moving north, maybe Alaska maybe not. Staying near the equator would be a loser. As a guy who spent years as an ocean sail-cruiser a dream of sailing across a rapidly melting North Pole could be fulfilled, however those 200 mph winds would be a challenge.

What do you think will happen with deficits?
More spending and less revenue, what could be more obvious.

Do you think a conflict of interest and/or an additional vulnerability to terrorist attack on Trump properties will be a major concern in his administration?
The Issis support for Donald was not accidental. Banning Muslims from entering and registering those that are here, supplying new Trump owned targets and lacking the credibility to command internal respect by the non-zombified portion of the population should be right up their ally.

Do you think based on his rhetoric and flip flops Trump will have a serious credibility problem?
When the guy moves his lips reality takes a down turn. With all his flip flops, nutcase conspiracy theories and paranoid invention even his most avid supporters are going to wonder - "what's next?"

If you voted for Trump or one of the 3rd party candidates or chose not to vote at all have you got any second thoughts on your decision?
I voted for Hillary. I'll let the rest of you wrestle with your conscience. ph34r.gif

This post has been edited by Dingo: Dec 7 2016, 04:22 AM
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akaCG
post Dec 7 2016, 12:47 AM
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QUOTE(Dingo @ Dec 6 2016, 04:46 PM) *
...
Where do you think things will get better under a Trump administration and where do you think they will get worse?

Lets try joining them together. The British writer Samu[e]l Johnson said it well; in substance he remarked- "The knowledge that one is to be hanged the next morning wonderfully concentrates the mind." Each daily revelation from Trump and his announced appointments does have that effect along with his curious history. A number of possibilities occur to me which at least address overpopulation.
1. Human extinction
2. A return to a hunting and gathering scenario.
3. A Mad Max world.
...

Your current "The End is Nigh! The time to act is NOW!!!"-type fulminations about stuff, "Dingo", are no different from the ones you've been fulminating' about since the time when I first joined ad.gif, waaay back in November of 2009.

Methinks it may just be time for you (et al.?) to at least begin to consider that you've been proselytizing on behalf of an "End is Nigh"-type ... CULT.


flowers.gif

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Dingo
post Dec 7 2016, 12:59 AM
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QUOTE(akaCG @ Dec 6 2016, 05:47 PM) *
QUOTE(Dingo @ Dec 6 2016, 04:46 PM) *
...
Where do you think things will get better under a Trump administration and where do you think they will get worse?

Lets try joining them together. The British writer Samu[e]l Johnson said it well; in substance he remarked- "The knowledge that one is to be hanged the next morning wonderfully concentrates the mind." Each daily revelation from Trump and his announced appointments does have that effect along with his curious history. A number of possibilities occur to me which at least address overpopulation.
1. Human extinction
2. A return to a hunting and gathering scenario.
3. A Mad Max world.
...

Your current "The End is Nigh!"

Actually only one out of 3 meets that criteria. We are a durable rat like species. Other species aren't so lucky. It doesn't however surprise me that a Donald loving science denying cultist should project his tendencies on me. flowers.gif
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Dingo
post Dec 9 2016, 06:07 PM
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If you voted for Trump or one of the 3rd party candidates or chose not to vote at all have you got any second thoughts on your decision?
Garrison Keillor with his homespun perspective on things kind of addresses this question among others.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10028342941

QUOTE
It's a wonderful satire right out of Twain or Thurber, a minority of the electorate goes for the loosest and least knowledgeable candidate, certain that he will lose and their votes will only be harmless protest, a middle finger to Washington, and then Whoa. The joke comes true. You put a whoopee cushion on your father's chair and he sits down and it barks and he has a massive coronary. You wanted to get a rise out of him and instead he falls down dead. Very funny.

Thank you, Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania for this wonderful joke. Voters in high dudgeon against Wall Street manipulators and the Washington aristocracy vote for the billionaire populist who puts tycoons in power and the Republican hierarchy who owned the logjam that the voters voted against. If Billy the Kid had been smart, he'd've run for sheriff.
---------------------------------------
I stood in an airport last Thursday and watched live cable news coverage of his first stop in Indiana where he toured a factory whose owner had been promised a $7 million tax break in return for not laying off 800 workers. In November, 178,000 new jobs were created and unemployment fell, and here was a platoon of journalists in Indiana trailing a big galoot with a red tie who offered a corporation $7 million not to lose 800 workers. No gain, simply a non-loss. It was a classic TV moment, extensive live coverage of essentially nothing whatsoever and we all stood in a stupor and watched, like people mesmerized by drops of rain sliding down a windowpane.
---------------------------------------------
He is a showman and oddity has paid off for him, as it did for Lady Gaga and Gorgeous George and Liberace. But the public demands new tricks. Today, railing at the journalists who slavishly cover him is, like bear baiting or lion taming, entertainment enough, but by next fall he will need to pull canaries out of his ears, and by 2018 he'll be diving on horseback from a high tower into a pool of water while playing "Malaguena" on a trumpet.
----------------------------------------------
Meanwhile, the emperor-elect parades in the nude while his congressional courtiers admire him and the nation drifts toward the rapids. The one bright spot is the old draft-dodger's new-found fondness for generals, including the one who talked him out of the idea of torturing prisoners of war. Military experience does encourage a certain respect for reality. There is hope that if the showman should decide late one night to incinerate Iran or North Korea and get it over with, someone might say, "Hold on. Let's think this through."



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Trouble
post Dec 10 2016, 05:04 AM
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Do you think based on his rhetoric and flip flops Trump will have a serious credibility problem?

Yes and no. Technically the path Trump is following was trail blazed by one Barack Obama. Does anyone other than myself remember all the stuff about hope and change? The war on government leakers, proxy wars, and crack down on journalism all hit highs under Obama's tenure. Obama's campaign was said to challenge the status quo and that directly affected the big banks except he garnered more financial donations from those same big banks that his competitors at the time. So is it fair to criticize hypocrisy by saying one thing and doing another when your predecessor did the same thing?

To more cheekily answer your question I think Trump will have a serious mortality problem. Building on last month's 'Rioting Snowflakes' story, people are observing the potential to John Hinckley Jr. the president elect is real.
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Dingo
post Dec 19 2016, 05:35 AM
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If you voted for Trump or one of the 3rd party candidates or chose not to vote at all have you got any second thoughts on your decision?

Well we have seen more appointments and further antics on the part of the president-elect so second thoughts may be in order. Here's a fellow who isn't shy about his opinion. Apparently Trump inspires new linguistic possibilities, at least new for the time. Try Kakistocracy.

http://www.alternet.org/culture/degenerati...y-donald-trumps

QUOTE
Ever since Donald Trump launched his campaign last year we have searched for the right word to define the sort of government he would lead. Would it be populist or fascist? Would he be a demagogue or a dictator? Would he be the first reality TV president? Would his new administration be an oligarchy, a plutocracy, or a kleptocracy?

Now that he has been elected and he and his minions are busily filling slots in the cabinet and government, we now have an answer to what form of government he will lead. And the answer is all of the above.

Luckily we have one word that sums it all up: a kakistocracy, which literally means government by the worst element of a society. A kakistocracy is a government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens. Trump plans to bring us the worst of both.
------------------------------------------------
Meanwhile the news from the transition team is only worse every day. The folks the Trump team is tapping to fill government posts are literally the worst of the worst.

We have nominees with zero experience of any relevant kind. Like Rex Tillerson, the CEO of ExxonMobil, who has been tapped for secretary of state. Not only does he have absolutely no experience with diplomacy, he may also have troubling ties to Vladimir Putin. Then there is Ben Carson for Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, perhaps one of the weirdest choices given that Carson has no relevant experience and earlier stated he did not want to work in government —even though he did run for president.
-------------------------------------------------
But it isn’t only that there is a collective lack of experience and a pattern of oligarchy. It is also that the picks tend to be similar in character to the president-elect himself: egotistical, megalomaniacal, bumbling liars. Michael T. Flynn, the retired Army general tapped to serve as national security adviser in the Trump White House, who once led chants to “lock her up,” “inappropriately shared” classified information with foreign military officers in Afghanistan. It’s an example of Trump-like hubris that is a signature trademark of the administration he is assembling.
--------------------------------------------------------
It’s almost like the era of fake news brought us a fake government. Just like the pernicious effects of a population that has come to believe that the fake news is real, we are frighteningly close to a world where the population is poised to accept “fake” leaders as the real deal.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Kakistrocracy is simply the best umbrella term for the form of government we are heading into. It aptly combines the realities of a team that represents nepotism, oligarchy, plutocracy, kleptocracy, demagoguery, alt-right values and a disturbing tendency toward fascist white nationalism.


This post has been edited by Dingo: Dec 19 2016, 08:24 AM
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kimpossible
post Dec 19 2016, 02:52 PM
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I just wanted to add this article by the New Yorker hypothesizing about Trump's first term (written before the election).

QUOTE
The Economist Intelligence Unit, an economic-and-geopolitical-analysis firm, has ranked the prospect of a Trump victory on its top-ten risks to the global economy. Larry Summers, the Harvard professor and former Treasury Secretary, predicts that, taken together, Trumps economic and trade policies would help trigger a protracted recession within eighteen months. Even if Trump stops short of applying tariffs, Summers told me, the perception that we might well be pursuing hyper-nationalist policies would be very damaging to confidence globally and would substantially increase the risk of financial crises in emerging markets.

If Trump followed through on tariffs, the effects could be larger still. Mark Zandi, a centrist economist who has advised Republicans and Democrats and is now the chief economist at Moodys Analytics, a research firm, forecasts that Trumps trade plan could trigger a trade war that would put roughly four million Americans out of work, and cost the economy three million jobs that would have been created in Trumps absence.

But Trump would not need to take any of those steps to have an abrupt effect on the economy. His belief in the power of the threat, which he has used in private business, takes on another meaning if he is the leader of a country with national-debt obligations. In May, Trump, whose businesses have declared bankruptcy four times, said, Ive borrowed knowing that you can pay back with discounts, and if the economy crashed you could make a deal. The notion that he might try to make creditors accept less than full payment on U.S. government debt caused an outcry. Under criticism, he clarified, to the Wall Street Journal, that U.S. bonds are absolutely sacred, but the incident left an enduring impression on the financial community.

Anthony Karydakis, the chief economic strategist at Miller Tabak, an asset manager, told me that a Trump victory is now generally regarded as a major destabilizing development for financial markets. He went on, If he ever even alludes to renegotiating the debt, we will have a downgrade of U.S. debt, and that event will cause a massive exodus of foreign investors from the U.S. Treasury market. In 2011, when feuding in Congress delayed raising the debt limit, the stock market fell seventeen per cent. This would be a far larger event. The rating agencies could not ignore the comment, he said. The cornerstone of the right to raise sovereign debt is the willingness and ability of the government to service it normally and fully. He added, The markets have no patience for stupidity or ignorance. They get scared.

For more than a year, Trump has encouraged supporters to regard him as a work in progressEverything is negotiableand the ambiguity has ushered him to the threshold of power. But envisaging a Trump Presidency has never required an act of imagination; he has proudly exhibited his priorities, his historical inspirations, his instincts under pressure, and his judgment about those who would put his ideas into practice. In Trump: Think Like a Billionaire, he included a quote from Richard Conniff, the author of The Natural History of the Rich: Successful alpha personalities display a single-minded determination to impose their vision on the world, an irrational belief in unreasonable goals, bordering at times on lunacy.
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Hobbes
post Dec 20 2016, 06:06 AM
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The perception before the election was that Trump being elected would cause the markets to drop. But it hasn't, it has skyrocketed.

So much for pre-election economic predictions.

As for the discussion on the debt in the quote...anyone who doesn't think those steps are necessary at some point is simply not paying attention at all. I don't see Trump doing it...but at some point, someone has to. So, if that seems like a dire situation, then you certainly can not, ever, vote for anyone who doesn't make balancing the budget their top priority.
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akaCG
post Dec 20 2016, 05:44 PM
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QUOTE(Hobbes @ Dec 20 2016, 01:06 AM) *
The perception before the election was that Trump being elected would cause the markets to drop. But it hasn't, it has skyrocketed.

So much for pre-election economic predictions.
...

My favorite such economic prediction (issued just past 12:30 am on Election night):

"If the question is when markets will recover, a first-pass answer is never."
--- Paul Krugman, NYT

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post Dec 20 2016, 08:41 PM
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How do you think the environment will fare under a Trump administration?

The White House lawn will split open and a hundred thousand starving crows will burst forth, carrying on their wings the dawning of a new age of horror and woe. The sky will be as ash, the seas will boil and the sun will deny the earth its light. The moon will break free of its bonds, preferring to wander the stars rather than remain circling this decayed husk. The living will envy the dead. Death, however, will offer no release as the dead spend eternity watching an endless loop of 'An Inconvenient Truth'.



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Hobbes
post Jan 21 2017, 07:14 AM
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QUOTE(akaCG @ Dec 20 2016, 12:44 PM) *
QUOTE(Hobbes @ Dec 20 2016, 01:06 AM) *
The perception before the election was that Trump being elected would cause the markets to drop. But it hasn't, it has skyrocketed.

So much for pre-election economic predictions.
...

My favorite such economic prediction (issued just past 12:30 am on Election night):

"If the question is when markets will recover, a first-pass answer is never."
--- Paul Krugman, NYT


LOL (and I know you enjoy a good Krugman jab, as do I).

it is an example of something that I don't think all those bashing Trump to the degree that they are have considered. They have created a scenario where he cannot help but vastly exceed expectations. If, in a year, the US economy isn't in complete shambles, he will have exceeded expectations. So, he will likely VASTLY exceed expectations. This is good for Trump...
erego, his most vocal critics are creating the very scenario they seek to avoid...making Trump look good.
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post Jan 21 2017, 11:39 AM
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The inauguration has come and gone. Now the real Trump shows himself, a 70-something-year-old with a teleprompter and a mission to undo what the previous administration did. It feels a lot like the start of GWB's first term.

Due to this I'm expecting another 9/11-like disaster (a real one, not hyperbole) to numb the country again and allow the next phase of dismantling civil rights.

Then Trump wins a second term because, like with GWB, the country will be scared of another disaster happening. That will be the opportunity to bring in the sequel to Honey, I Destroyed the Economy.

So far, my prediction is that history repeats. However, this time I don't think there'll be a Democratic Party strong enough to pull the country away from the brink. But then I could be wrong. History could just go on repeating like in Groundhog Day.

Alternatively, nukes could fly. Or it could be a long trudge to the next election cycle. Or it might be the most glorious golden era the world has ever known. Or it might be just ho-hum.

I hope it's just ho-hum. Got me a lot of jazz tunes to work up, and flying nukes wouldn't help a bit.
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