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> The Suicide Solution, What Drives Us to End our Lives?
Under What Circumstances Would You Commit Suicide?
Under What Circumstances Would You Commit Suicide?
1. If I had a terminal disease. [ 7 ] ** [14.58%]
2. If I had no reason to go on living. [ 3 ] ** [6.25%]
3. If I considered the release of death preferable to the pain of life. [ 13 ] ** [27.08%]
4. Under circumstances other than the ones listed. [ 6 ] ** [12.50%]
5. I would never commit suicide. [ 19 ] ** [39.58%]
Total Votes: 54
  
nighttimer
post Dec 23 2005, 06:25 PM
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It's not exactly a cheery subject, but the apparent suicide of James Dungy, the 18-year-old son of football coach Tony Dungy of the Indianapolis Colts, has shaken the sports world. It is a grim reminder that during this season of happiness and joy there are many people who succumb to "the dark night of the soul" and decide to end their life.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/foot...n.ap/index.html

Why?

I cannot understand what it would take to drive a young man to kill himself. I can't begin to know what demons could drive someone to prefer the finality of death over the possibility of life.

I have a friend who twice attempted to commit suicide when she was a teenager. Once she took a overdose of pills and the second time she sat in a bathtub and slit her wrists. The scars are visible on her wrists to this day. The scars on her psyche are not as visible.

To this day, she looks upon the act of suicide as a dignified alternative than wasting away from a crippling disease or slipping into a degenerative mental state.

I see it as a permanent solution to a temporary situation. But what do I know?

The questions for debate:

1. Under what circumstance(s) would suicide be preferable to you than life?

2. Do you know anyone that committed suicide or tried to?

3. It seems to take a "celebrity" to get our attention about people taking their own lives. Is the act of suicide a underreported problem?
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Christopher
post Dec 23 2005, 06:48 PM
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1. Under what circumstance(s) would suicide be preferable to you than life?

I don't know if I would ever. i might say that if I ever got seriously ill and the pain was incredible or the disease was a slow wasting one that left me trapped inside myself I would.

but I don't think i would. I am not religious and honestly never consider the afterlife or if there is or isn't one. I am however terminally optimistic--even as sarcastic and cynical as I admittedly am.
Take full body paralysis--they actually have a chip now that implants in the frontal lobe and allows you to move a cursor across the screen--so at the least you can communicate. Sure its not on the market now but really how much longer? thumbsup.gif
I have read the most amazing results of some of the spinal repair stuff they are having success with--sure Superman never walked again and then Died. But really--how much longer before they at least return some control--I'd believe not much longer and definetely in my life time. thumbsup.gif


The ones who do so because of some type of emptiness in their soul or love unrequited dry.gif

At the very least i would recommend trying religion. It seems to work for a lot of people and helps them find whatever it is they cannot find on their own. Sense of purpose or the belief that at least one person out there loves you -- So if you need that give it a try. life is too much of a miracle --and this comes from a cynical sarcastic atheist who questions everything. never give up cause it always gets better.
I have been on top and I have been on a park bench. It always gets better.

Love heart.gif wub.gif

Are they really worth it? I mean REALLY sure they might feel guilty for a little while --but they'll get over it and you'll still be DEAD dry.gif
think about it.
They WILLget over you.
and then the only ones still affected are the ones who really love you and they are now hurt for life. If you're really that shallow it might be the clue you need to undertand why they left you. thumbsup.gif How Dull.

Again try religion at the very least--or get a puppy. Unconditional love remember.


2. Do you know anyone that committed suicide or tried to?
Yes and their family to this day is a shell and sad to see. Imagine life with no color.


3. It seems to take a "celebrity" to get our attention about people taking their own lives. Is the act of suicide a underreported problem?

I think in the end Human Beings are optimists. Inside out heart of hearts we all believe that not only will it get better, but that it was always supposed to be better and somehow we got lost.

This post has been edited by christopher: Dec 23 2005, 06:50 PM
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redliner1989
post Dec 23 2005, 07:08 PM
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I worked for a short time as a Deputy in a small rural County in Nebraska. The time I spent in Law Enforcement was during the Farm Crisis in the late 70's early 80's.

During the 18 months of duty I investigated 6 suicides, one of which was the Husband of an ex High School Girlfriend. The Horror that a suicide puts a family through is incredible. I wake up at night remembering, not so much the suicide scene, but the faces of the loved ones that I had to go tell the news to.

After witnessing this first hand, answering the question "under what circumstances would you commit suicide" is easy:

The circumstance, for me to commit suicide, simply does not exist.

Can I understand why these, mostly good, hardworking farmers committed suicide? Not really, but when the song "Rain on the scarecrow" came out, it at least tempered my anger toward them for forcing me to be the bearer of the worse possible news.

This post has been edited by redliner1989: Dec 23 2005, 07:11 PM
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doomed_planet
post Dec 23 2005, 07:26 PM
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Under what circumstance(s) would suicide be preferable to you than life?

I guess if I had a terminal illness that put me in a position where I was living
a pitiful existence and a huge burden on my family. Or if I was in so much
pain that I couldn't bear it any longer. The only other scenario that I can think
of that would drive me to that emotional solution would be the loss of my children.
I think all parents will feel me on this one. I cannot imagine a life without my
kids and I wouldn't want to live.

Do you know anyone that committed suicide or tried to?

Yes I do. When I was in high school I knew a guy who was the sweetest and
nicest person. He was very handsome and intelligent, and was sought after by
many girls. I don't remember him ever dating. Years later, I learned that he
had killed himself. I believe it was because he was homosexual and couldn't
come to terms with it. He was nineteen when he ended his life.

Also, my mom has a friend who suffered from depression, on and off, for years.
He finally got himself on anti-depressants, and within months he took his life.
How's that for treating emotional problems with drugs. sad.gif

It seems to take a "celebrity" to get our attention about people taking their
own lives. Is the act of suicide a underreported problem?


That's a good question. I guess it's one of those issues that is tough to think
about or even talk about.
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johnlocke
post Dec 23 2005, 07:45 PM
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1. Under what circumstance(s) would suicide be preferable to you than life?

If I was carrying around some deep dark secret that ate at me night and day to the point where I just hated myself I might consider death to life as a way of erasing all the shame, I pray to God I will never do anything that makes me hate myself as I have seen others do. unsure.gif

Also I would definitly consider suicide under instead of pain of torture from some sort of enemy, any searches done con signifigance, perhaps with a major defeat in war if I were a great General.. Of course these are wildly absurd circumstances but I can't say that they might never happen, especially with my penchant for traveling to far off places.

2. Do you know anyone that committed suicide or tried to?

Yes. I'm sure everyone knows someone or knows someone, who knows someone. It can be incredibly painful depending on how close you were, but in the end people move on.

3. It seems to take a "celebrity" to get our attention about people taking their own lives. Is the act of suicide a underreported problem?

Death is incredibly private in our culture and suicide is incredibly shameful to people's families, it's not exactly something you wanna go around talking about. Nor is it something I care to hear about in the news regularly. It's very private and should remain that way.

My heart goes out to the boys family. So sorry to have to hear of someone rocked by this kind of revelation only days before Christmas. Few things could be worse. huh.gif
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DaffyGrl
post Dec 23 2005, 09:11 PM
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1. Under what circumstance(s) would suicide be preferable to you than life?

Tough question. I suppose if I were diagnosed with a terminal illness that destroyed the quality of my life, I would consider it. Or if I were losing my mind; I think that would be worse than any physical disease.

I find Virginia Woolf’s last words to be poignant in that regard:
QUOTE
I feel certain that I'm going mad again. I feel we can't go thru another of those terrible times. And I shan't recover this time. I begin to hear voices.

2. Do you know anyone that committed suicide or tried to?

Several, including an attempt by a family member (though it was prior to my birth).

Oddly, the one that knocked me for a loop was a guy I had dated briefly after my divorce. The breakup was still too raw for me to be dating, so it didn’t work out, but we parted on friendly terms. The mutual friend who had set us up told me one day that after charging all his credit cards to the limit buying things for his young daughter, he checked into a motel with a gun and shot himself. The housekeeper found him still alive, but barely, and he died shortly after. Turns out he had inoperable stomach cancer.

The weirdest one was an artist I spent a wild and crazy weekend with in San Francisco (an unrelated and irrelevant factoid: he had an uncanny resemblance to David Bowie). We were at his friends’ house chatting, and I don’t know how the subject of suicide came up, but it did, and he pulls up his sleeves and shows these long, nasty vertical scars from his wrist to his elbow. Freaked me out.

3. It seems to take a "celebrity" to get our attention about people taking their own lives. Is the act of suicide a underreported problem?

I believe it is. Adolescent suicides in particular. Why do so many young people think life isn’t worth living? I think a big part of the problem is the lingering social stigma that mental illness still has. No one wants to be diagnosed as “crazy”, or are ashamed of being seen as "weak", so a lot of treatable mental illnesses go untreated. I think that stigma also attaches itself to other precipitators of suicide; marital problems, domestic violence, all kinds of abuse, sexual identity issues, social acceptance, substance abuse, financial difficulties. I think a lot could be accomplished if we didn’t just have to be so damn perfect all the time! If our society was more tolerant...

Something I found surprising is that the notion (guilty of believing this myself) that suicides increase during the holidays is false! I could relate to that notion, with all the forced cheer, family tension, excessive drinking, etc. etc., but it seems not to be so. Source: Snopes (But a Japanese study did find that suicide rates went up after a holiday.)
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still
post Dec 23 2005, 09:12 PM
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1. Under what circumstance(s) would suicide be preferable to you than life?
I can be all sure of myself and say that I would never commit suicide because I have been through tough times and know what the other side looks like. But having gone through some dark days, I know that what I went through was not nearly as bad as what others have or might have gone through. I honestly don't know what I would do in a situation that looked medically hopeless, for example. I don't think I would because I seek out experiences, but I just don't know.

2. Do you know anyone that committed suicide or tried to?
Yes, a woman I knew committed suicide almost on her mother-in-law's front lawn, and it drove her surviving children and husband into despair. I have never gotten the whole story (straight), and it was about ten years ago. The children are still hollow-eyed.

3. It seems to take a "celebrity" to get our attention about people taking their own lives. Is the act of suicide a underreported problem?
I'm sure it is. According to some friends of mine who live there, the reason that Sweden's suicide rate is so high is because suicides actually get reported as suicides over there.

It seems like it takes a celebrity to get our attention about anything.

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Paladin Elspeth
post Dec 23 2005, 09:36 PM
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1. Under what circumstance(s) would suicide be preferable to you than life?

There was a time when I was in my twenties that I considered it very seriously. Although it was never diagnosed in me, I think it was due to a postpartum depression that was never adequately dealt with. At the time, I wanted to escape from a life situation I considered untenable.

2. Do you know anyone that committed suicide or tried to?

Yes, both actually. The one who tried is still alive and wouldn't consider it now, even though she has gone through some very rough times (including a life-threatening illness) since then.

The other one, who did commit suicide, was very close to me. It was extremely hard for me and the rest of the family. I felt betrayed, and I wondered if there was something I could have done to have stopped it. His favorite song was "Don't Fear the Reaper." To this day, I hate that song.

3. It seems to take a "celebrity" to get our attention about people taking their own lives. Is the act of suicide a underreported problem?

It doesn't take a celebrity for us to focus on suicide. At least it doesn't for me. But I do think that it still is not talked about a lot due to the feelings I described in answer #2. I nullified my vote, because I feel that I would not commit suicide under any circumstances, but the thought might still be a problem under some very difficult circumstances.

About carrying a guilt that one poster referred to, I do not believe that is necessary. My faith, Catholicism, provides for confessing sins or wrongs to a priest who keeps them confidential. The criterion for confession is feeling sorry for what one has done wrong and seeking forgiveness. There is a penance (something to help right that wrong--or at least to bring peace to the penitent's mind if the wrong cannot be rectified for the person wronged) prescribed by the priest, and absolution is granted to a person who is truly sorry and wants to be forgiven by God. I have found peace in the sacrament of reconciliation, which this is called.


Protestants (and anybody else) can confess their sins and wrongdoings directly to God (as can Catholics, for that matter). It is a matter of what is going to help you more.

But if you're feeling at the end of your rope, tell somebody. Sometimes it helps just to get some perspective from someone else. A lot of times depression has to do with a brain chemistry imbalance. The time is past for it to be dismissed as some kind of character flaw.

Edit: A person who is seriously ill and feels worthless because of it needs to consider that his/her illness often brings out the best in people around them, qualities that wouldn't otherwise come out. In this way, the ill person can actually improve life for others. Otherwise selfish people have found within themselves a compassion and determination to do good when someone close to them is suffering. In that sense, suffering does have a purpose. Whether suffering is God's will or not is beyond my comprehension (although I tend to think that suffering is not God's will), but my faith tells me that good things can and do come out of virtually any bad situation.

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Dec 23 2005, 09:45 PM
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nighttimer
post Dec 23 2005, 11:57 PM
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QUOTE(nighttimer @ Dec 23 2005, 01:25 PM)
The questions for debate:

1. Under what circumstance(s) would suicide be preferable to you than life?

2.  Do you know anyone that committed suicide or tried to?

3.  It seems to take a "celebrity" to get our attention about people taking their own lives.  Is the act of suicide a underreported problem?


1. I can think of all kinds of nightmarish scenarios where I would consider punching my own ticket preferable to living a life of misery, pain and loss. If anything were to happen to my wife and children I might prefer death to life. Then again, I still have enough religious teaching in me to fear burning in hell for the sin of killing myself.

Then again, I have seen film and photos of people jumping from the inferno of the World Trade Center on September 11. When faced with two horrible ways to die--burnt alive or smashed by a plummet off a skyscraper---which horrible way would I choose? Perhaps the one that promised the quickest end and least pain.

Then again, I recall vividly how my mother lost her health, her dignity and finally her life in a slow slide in a senior "care" facility after suffering a crippling stroke. A life without the hope for a better tomorrow is not one I would wish to live. I'm no Dr. Kervorkian, but there's something to be said about punching your own ticket rather that wasting away flat on your back drugged, delirious and doing your business in an adult diaper.


2. It's hard to grow up and not know someone who took their own life. It's usually because they had a secret they couldn't share or deal with. Maybe they couldn't come out of the closet. Sometimes it's because they've been physically or sexually abused by a father or husband. Of course, there are times when you can't think of a single reason to get your butt out of bed and face the new day. So you don't. You write a suicide note about 20 pages long, swallow a bunch of pills and hope they find your body before the flies and maggots do.

I read an article on how the Golden Gate Bridge is a |"suicide magnet." Maybe because the grandeur of the bridge is such a compelling contrast to the ugliness of self-destruction.

The Golden Gate Bridge is the world's No. 1 suicide magnet, in part because it makes suicide so easy. People jump and kill themselves there, an average of 19 a year. In the peak year, 1977, there were 40 suicides. Some dive not expecting obscurity or oblivion but a kind of grace -- a welcoming body of water that inducts the jumper into nature.

"I'd heard the water just sweeps you under," Ken Baldwin of Angels Camp in Calaveras County, who survived his jump in 1985, told the New Yorker magazine.

In fact, there's nothing peaceful in a jump from the bridge. Once a person dives, depending on where he or she jumps, the body plummets 240 to 250 feet in four seconds, traveling about 75 mph, and hits the water with the force of a speeding truck meeting a concrete building. Some die instantly from extensive internal injuries; others drown in their own blood.

The jump is fatal 98 percent of the time. The Chronicle's research indicates that at least 1,218 suicides were reported between the time the bridge opened, on May 27, 1937, and this past Friday. Local mental health experts believe that number could be higher, considering the suicides who jump and go undetected, their bodies floating out to sea.


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c...MNG2NFF7KI1.DTL

3. Anyone remember when Andy Rooney dissed Kurt Cobain after he committed suicide? The sad, unhappy fact that Cobain had exactly the worst personality to cope with the demands of fame didn't seem to matter to Rooney. There is a lot of shame, suspicion and rumor that floats around when someone famous dies at their own hand. There's a buzz to it for awhile and then it kind of fades away until the next one.

How many old people who die alone in their homes kill themselves? That kind of story never makes the news unless it's a murder-suicide. If suicide remains a place we don't want to go to, it's partially because we understand so little of the reasons that drive someone to take their own life.

The death of James Dungy is not going to change that.


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VDemosthenes
post Dec 24 2005, 03:01 AM
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QUOTE(nighttimer @ Dec 23 2005, 01:25 PM)
1. Under what circumstance(s) would suicide be preferable to you than life?

2.  Do you know anyone that committed suicide or tried to?

3.  It seems to take a "celebrity" to get our attention about people taking their own lives.  Is the act of suicide a underreported problem?

*



1.) None. Life is far too important to lose or voluntarily take. I will never condemn another's choice but certainly I would mourn their passing and never accept the reality of their choice/weakness.

2.) Yes I do.

3.) It sure is a problem and it seems to be glorified when a celebrity ends their life. Other than the romantic outlook on it that some mediums are conveying, I would say that it is no more a problem that it has been since time began.



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redliner1989
post Dec 24 2005, 04:50 AM
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QUOTE
Then again, I have seen film and photos of people jumping from the inferno of the World Trade Center on September 11. When faced with two horrible ways to die--burnt alive or smashed by a plummet off a skyscraper---which horrible way would I choose? Perhaps the one that promised the quickest end and least pain.


I wouldn't classify that as exactly suicide, at least not in the classic sense, and especially not like in the Dungy case. It's a bit like a bleeding scuba diver choosing to attempt to get to the surface before his air runs out even though he has to swim through a school of sharks.

The death doesn't leave loved ones behind asking "why?"

QUOTE
3. It seems to take a "celebrity" to get our attention about people taking their own lives. Is the act of suicide a underreported problem?


I can almost guarantee this. I suspected several times that Law Enforcement, in neighboring counties reported a few as Hunting Accidents to save the family the stigma.

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lordhelmet
post Dec 24 2005, 01:27 PM
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QUOTE(nighttimer @ Dec 23 2005, 02:25 PM)

The questions for debate:

1. Under what circumstance(s) would suicide be preferable to you than life?

2.  Do you know anyone that committed suicide or tried to?

3.  It seems to take a "celebrity" to get our attention about people taking their own lives.  Is the act of suicide a underreported problem?

*



1. None.

2. Yes.

3. The act of suicide is the ultimate selfish act. Bar none. Those who consider it should try a tactic of reversing the self obsession that got them thinking that way in the first place. They should volunteer to help others. Donate. Engage in charity. Anything to change the focus from their own miserable lives to helping someone else. And, maybe, just maybe, they will find that they are not so miserable after all. In this day and age there are effective therapies for pain. There is a plethora of mental health care providers. There is ALWAYS another day.

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Renger
post Dec 24 2005, 02:20 PM
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QUOTE(lordhelmet @ Dec 24 2005, 02:27 PM)
1.  None.

2.  Yes.

3.  The act of suicide is the ultimate selfish act.  Bar none.  Those who consider it should try a tactic of reversing the self obsession that got them thinking that way in the first place.  They should volunteer to help others.  Donate.  Engage in charity.  Anything to change the focus from their own miserable lives to helping someone else.  And, maybe, just maybe, they will find that they are not so miserable after all.  In this day and age there are effective therapies for pain.  There is a plethora of mental health care providers.  There is ALWAYS another day.
*



The act of suicide an ultimate act of selfishness? People who are manically depressed or completely hit rockbottom should volunteer to help others, through donations? I am really offended by this simplistic view. It seems that you really do not know what it is like for these people just to make it through another day. Its obvious that, luckily, you never been in such a desparate situation.

Nobody wants to kill himself, but for some people life is just too hard to cope with. I had an aunt who committed suicide by jumping in front of a train. She was the kindest and nicest woman I have ever known, but she just couldn´t cope with the harsh reality of her life and all the mean and dishonest people living in it. There is not one day that I do not think about her and it makes me deeply sad when I realize how much she must have suffered in her life. Never ever judge people who committed suicide. Mourn for them and realize the unbelievable pain that drove these people to such an act.

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AuthorMusician
post Dec 24 2005, 06:10 PM
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Suicide is painless, as the tune goes.

Ever wonder about the strange traffic accidents that happen? Had one here where a little pickup went head-on into a semi, no apparent reason. I bet a lot of suicides are masked in traffic fatality stats.

Colorado has a high rate of suicide, nobody seems to know why. Over this past year there were two that I know about close by, both involving a parent taking their kids lives first, and both were tied to economic problems in the family. When we're happy, or at least okay, with the way things go in life, it's pretty hard to understand. From what I've experienced with this, two things have to be present:

Hopelessness and depression.

Chemical imbalances in the brain can bring on clinical depression, and that might lead to suicide if untreated, and as I imagine, something traumatic happens like the loss of a loved one -- spouse, child, maybe parent -- someone so close as to be a part of self. So let's add a third:

Psychological pain.

Yep, it's all in your head, isn't it. Pain that is. Cut the nerves, no more pain. Certain drugs block the pain, others produce pleasure, some do both. Our brains respond to chemicals either produced in the body or at the drug factory.

Another way to do suicide is slowly, as in drinking or mething oneself to death. Doing risky things can be another way, and that would be having a death wish. But then, life leads inevitably to death, so there are degrees to taking on risk. Some are necessary, others borderline, and then there's the full tilt boogey with the Grim Reaper. For me, jumping out of a perfectly good airplane is over the edge. Others find it to be fun sport, and others do it for a living (airborne).

Attempted suicide is, and I'm pretty sure stats back this up, usually a cry for help. Serious suicide is more efficiently done (shotgun blast to the head and the such) and is done to get the hell out. I find it difficult to judge serious suicide as selfish. What reward is the person getting, other than release from pain so severe that I can't possibly have a clue? Except I do, an amount anyway. Enough to suspend my judgement.

Danny Gatton, a legendary guitarist from the 1950s, blew himself away with a shotgun. So did Ernest Hemingway. These guys were serious about leaving this Earth, but I doubt they expected any type of reward. Without reward, can we say that someone is being selfish? The death leaves pain for others to work through, that's for sure. Any kind of death does. Was it selfish for my parents to die, my brother, my sister? Hey, they might have gotten rewards too, but I can't say any of their deaths were selfish. Still, each one left its measure of pain for those of us left behind to deal with.

Yep, welcome to life. It starts out in pain and ends in pain, with doses of pain along the way. Obviously for most people, they can endure the pain. Otherwise, there'd be nobody here. Other people don't do so well for a bunch of reasons. Some die as a part of their sport or profession, or just driving around, and we don't consider these suicides usually. But they could be.

Bottom line: Suicide is far more common than we'd like to believe. Clever people can mask it, others don't give a damn, and I suppose a few want to get their names on the news. I would call that insanity. Oh, another possible motivation is martyrdom. Mostly though, I see it happening from overwhelming psychological pain, hopelessness and depression. I've been close a few times, but apparently not close enough because I am writing this.

BLAM! No, just kidding. It's really not a joking matter, except if you're Penn or Teller. website

One other thing, and that's figuring out a reason to live. I think that's highly important beyond expecting life to hand a reason over. Some are automatic, like having kids. Others have to be sought out. One thing that has worked for me is taking on a study that lasts forever, like music. Computers fit in there too, as do motorcycles somehow. Or is that my death wish hmmm.gif No, I do believe the death wish is in computers while oncall.

Yet another: Copping an attitude helps, as Winona sings about. It's the true Blues. Don't let the crumb-bums [one more cute attempt at profanity AM, and it's coal in your stocking! - SC santa.gif] get you down.
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whyshouldi
post Dec 26 2005, 12:10 AM
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I would have to say country music of course us.gif

TO be serious on the subject, I would have to say there is no single cause of suicide. More or less suicide can happen to anyone anywhere it seems like, or that history has proven that. I would say like so many problems in general its most likely stress related.

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Paladin Elspeth
post Dec 26 2005, 02:03 AM
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QUOTE
Suicide is painless, as the tune goes.

Except that it isn't. The person whom I mentioned in my previous post took an overdose of prescription medication. He didn't just "fall asleep." His body was found in a small patch of woods. There were multiple scratches on him from his flailing in the brambles. The autopsy ruled that he died from aspiration pneumonitis: choking on his own vomit.

The time of death comes for all of us; of this we are certain. It is a tragedy when people decide to end their lives because life has somehow become unbearable. AuthorMusician, I appreciate the sentiment about not letting the crum-bums get you down. And you're right; we'll never know how many auto accidents and people failing to stop running away from police officers in pursuit were actually out to kill themselves.

Suicidal people are ill. Their perspective is so narrow that they are unable in many cases to see alternatives to their destructive actions, and they often labor under the delusion that nobody cares for them.

It seems to me that it would take a person who is well-insulated from the rest of the world to only be cognizant of someone else's suicide because it comes on the news. Sometimes it takes a lot of courage to just hang on, but there are still surprises, good ones, and blessings in this world when we do.

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Curmudgeon
post Dec 26 2005, 03:09 AM
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The questions for debate:

1. Under what circumstance(s) would suicide be preferable to you than life?

If a change in the law forced me to annul my current marriage and return to living with my ex-wife...

2. Do you know anyone that committed suicide or tried to?

I was raised to believe in the privacy of the ballot box. My parents voted in every election. Nonetheless, they not only never told us who they had voted for, discussion of politics was a taboo subject in the house. (My older brother ran for President of his High School Senior class, but was told to stay after school and manufacture his campaign posters there. I know he lost, but I never heard by what margin.)

Nonetheless, I voted "5. I would never commit suicide." as it was closeest to the non-existent option of, I can't imagine at this point that I would attempt it again...

A couple of decades back, co-workers, a supervisor, and one of the corporate shrinks all told me that I needed to "talk to someone in the psychology dept." Anyone who said "Good Morning" to me got growled at, (GOOD MORNING IS AN OXYMORON!) and I worked hard at avoiding human contact on the way to my office in the morning. I arrived after a power outage one morning, noticed my clock was off by several hours, and did what one did to set a clock 20 years ago. I reached for the phone and dialed time. The recording had been changed overnight. It began, "Good Morning, at the tone..."

I borrowed someone else's phone to call my boss and explain that I had proven that a concrete wall was more durable than my telephone. He placed me on hold, got ahold of the Psychology dept., found a therapist willing to clear her schedule for the day, and drove me there...

As we talked; she assured me that as a diabetic, not only were the amount of donuts and banana splits I ate likely to kill me, but appeared to her to be a suicide attempt... Over a period of months, I came to accept her prognosis, and I finally filed for divorce.

I met a young woman in church a few weeks later on her first full day in the city. (She was to start a new job on Monday.) She persuaded me to stop smoking with a single statement, "I don't date smokers." On Monday morning, I discussed having met her with my therapist. I was told that I should find the young woman and talk further with her. "If she can accomplish that in a single conversation, you're wasting both my time and yours by talking to me." So, I walked back to church after school, checked the guest register to see how to reach her, walked out to her apartment to leave a note, and she surprised me by opening the door. She has often told me that my impact on her was comparable. We have known each other for nearly 19 years now, and been married for nearly 18 years. Hope is something that she gives me on a daily basis. I tend to eat one or two banana splits a year now insted of at least one daily...

3. It seems to take a "celebrity" to get our attention about people taking their own lives. Is the act of suicide an underreported problem?

The act of suicide is probably an underreported problem...

A coroner will most likely rule a death anything else if possible, because a ruling of suicide generally negates insurance policies, impacts survivors, and even limits the option of where the body can be buried. There is anecdotal evidence that in countries that had capital punishment, people would commit murder, confess to a priest, obtain absolution, and then confess to the police. "God will forgive a murderer his sins, but not a suicide."

Attempted suicide, I have been told was once a capital offense...

A "celebrity" suicide is not as apt to get my attention, by the way, as an attempt by a friend or an acquaintance. One memorable poem, which I heard a poet read decades ago, dealt with his decision to attempt suicide. He was standing on a bridge, ready to jump, when a policeman told him that he was attempting to jump off the wrong side of the bridge. "All of the successful attempts have been made from the other side of the bridge." He went to the library to confirm that the policeman was not lying to him, and learned that at the time, every successful attempt at suicide by jumping off The Golden Gate Bridge, had been made from the other side of the bridge. Every Sunday morning, I get a poem e-mailed to me from him. He is currently in his 7th year of a battle with cancer, and fighting to continue living.

When you step back from a decision to attempt suicide; even for a moment, one often discovers that your problems had a solution, and that life is worth taking the chance to live. flowers.gif

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A left Handed pe...
post Dec 26 2005, 03:36 AM
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1. Under what circumstance(s) would suicide be preferable to you than life?

I have occasionally wished that I were not alive, mainly because I am a socially inept, habitual hermit, with almost no ambition whatsoever. Non-existence doesn't bother me, and the main complicating factor as far as committing suicide goes for me, is how it will effect the people I know. I'm in some ways very popular/well known at the school I go to, and therefore, me dieing would likely upset a lot of people. I have therefore opted, to put off making a final decision on this, until I am 18, and have graduated. People in my class, and the classes above me, will be moving on with their lives, and thus I probably won't hurt them to much. People not moving on, will at least not have to stare at an empty seat. Hurting my parents and relatives is of course unavoidable. suicide contains a lot of hurtful symbolism, so I may try to make it look like an accident. Only problem there is, I want my college money to go to charity, it would be difficult to make that clear, without making it clear that my death was intentional?

Anyways, enough rambling....

Hopefully, i'll solve my problems before i'm 18, and therefore won't have to do any of the above.

2. Do you know anyone that committed suicide or tried to?

I knew a girl who cut herself once. Never quite learned why though. She was (when I knew her) rather emotionally unstable. Every now and then, she would come into the special ed room, inexplicably crying.

3. It seems to take a "celebrity" to get our attention about people taking their own lives. Is the act of suicide a underreported problem?

If it was reported more often, people maybe might be nicer to outcasts...
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DaytonRocker
post Dec 26 2005, 05:51 AM
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QUOTE(A left Handed person @ Dec 25 2005, 10:36 PM)
1. Under what circumstance(s) would suicide be preferable to you than life?

I have occasionally wished that I were not alive, mainly because I am a socially inept, habitual hermit, with almost no ambition whatsoever.  Non-existence doesn't bother me, and the main complicating factor as far as committing suicide goes for me, is how it will effect the people I know.  I'm in some ways very popular/well known at the school I go to, and therefore, me dieing would likely upset a lot of people.  I have therefore opted, to put off making a final decision on this, until I am 18, and have graduated.  People in my class, and the classes above me, will be moving on with their lives, and thus I probably won't hurt them to much.  People not moving on, will at least not have to stare at an empty seat.  Hurting my parents and relatives is of course unavoidable.  suicide contains a lot of hurtful symbolism, so I may try to make it look like an accident.  Only problem there is, I want my college money to go to charity, it would be difficult to make that clear, without making it clear that my death was intentional? 

Anyways, enough rambling....

Hopefully, i'll solve my problems before i'm 18, and therefore won't have to do any of the above.       

2. Do you know anyone that committed suicide or tried to?

I knew a girl who cut herself once.  Never quite learned why though.  She was (when I knew her) rather emotionally unstable.  Every now and then, she would come into the special ed room, inexplicably crying.   

3. It seems to take a "celebrity" to get our attention about people taking their own lives. Is the act of suicide a underreported problem?

If it was reported more often, people maybe might be nicer to outcasts...
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Dude, you need help. You have ambition. Unfortunately, it's seriously misplaced.

I'm not qualified to give medical advice, but in my opinion, you need to seek professional help. Now.
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Victoria Silverw...
post Dec 26 2005, 06:31 AM
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1. I have come to the conclusion that suicide is an ethically acceptable choice when one is experiencing extreme suffering which cannot be treated, and which will end only with death. This excludes almost every kind of strictly emotional pain which I can think of. Emotional pain is either the result of mental illness, which it is possible (if difficult) to treat, or the result of life experiences. We know, from seeing human beings who have survived horrors beyond our imagining, that emotional pain which is not the result of mental illness can become bearable, with time and support from others. We also know that some physical diseases result in extreme suffering which will not respond to any treatment, and that the patient will never experience anything but extreme suffering until death ends it. Under such circumstances, I cannot condemn those who choose to end their lives, nor those who assist them.

2. No. I am very lucky.

3. Yes. Here is one sad example.

Link

QUOTE
In the past 25 years, while the general incidence of suicide has decreased, the rate for those between 15 and 24 has tripled.  It is generally considered to be the second or third most common cause of death among adolescents, even though it is seriously underreported.


For a left Handed person:

I hope you will listen to the words of one who has always been socially inept and a loner.

I know what a living hell high school can be for those of us who are more sensitive than others might be to social rejection. The fact that you tell us that you are popular in some ways proves that there is good reason for hope.

High school ends. I would never suggest that your pain is not real, or that it is not serious. However, I can tell you that time, although it does not heal all wounds, makes them bearable.

You have my best wishes.

This post has been edited by Victoria Silverwolf: Dec 26 2005, 06:31 AM
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