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[DaytonRocker]

The big news tonight is that an ethics probe found Sarah Palin abused her power by dismissing the state's public safety commissioner. While finding she did not illegally fire Walt Monegan, the probe found that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.11O(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act.:

The legislature reaffirms that each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust."

Questions for debate?

1. Should Sarah Palin face legal consequences as a result of her actions?

2. Will this have any effect on the presidential race?


This post has been edited by DaytonRocker: Oct 11 2008, 01:51 AM

[CruisingRam]

1. Should Sarah Palin face legal consequences as a result of her actions?

Probably not DR. I am hoping you find me credible enough to realize I am NOT giving her a "pass" here- but in the scheme of corruption, using the office for personal gain of some sort- while it scares me that she has the bad judgement to continue to pursue this when she is the governer of the state- she should be above such petty personal involvements at the official level- I don't think it is a good precedent to overly constraining for hiring and firing at this level. A whack on the wrist for THIS small violation is deserved, like a legislative reprimand.

It is her actions AFTER this that are really an issue for me. She would have had alot more respect for saying, early on "Look, he remains fired. I am sure this can be construed as me firing him simply because of the Trooper-discipline issue, but either way, as a candidate of reform, I think I made a mistake on my decisions regarding this issue, and therefore, accept the blame for any fallout. I ask the legislature and the people of Alaska to accept my apology, and let's move on."

That would have done it for me, case closed. Honest, responsible, Alaskan frontier spirit of leadership.

Instead, she went all bill clinton on the whole thing, actually worse in most ways- she told folks not to testify and such- that is bad. She cast character smears towards honerable people, some of them that sacrificed thier personal ideology and party to cross party lines and help her get important legislation passed. I saw some serious back-stabbing by the Palins via the McCain campaign. Even worse, she has allowed the McCain campaign to run the state goverment- pretty much the decision making apparatus of state goverment has ground to a halt. Final authorization on day to day goverment has ground to a halt. All call routed to Virginia McCain campaign staffers.

Sarah- say it isn't so!

2. Will this have any effect on the presidential race?

Well, Obama has the momentum, McCain has had to dredge up some really, really stupid charges and character assasinations, and is losing more each day, and hopefully, will continue to look like a loser.

I think it will add a bit to the slide, though more as a rising tide of dissatisifaction with more of the same biz and Atwater-rove style character attacks.

[Ted]

Questions for debate?

1. Should Sarah Palin face legal consequences as a result of her actions?

Gee the Dem witch hunt could not nail Sarah in the weeks before the election.

2. Will this have any effect on the presidential race?

Could help McCain it is so obviously a gross political maneuver

[Wertz]

Should Sarah Palin face legal consequences as a result of her actions?

I don't know what the penalty for "violating the public trust" might be in Alaska, but Palin should be treated no differently than any other public official who violates state law.

Will this have any effect on the presidential race?

Nah. I don't think there's a sentient being in the United States that didn't already know that there was an abuse of power involved here. Palin's supporters were behind her despite of (or, perhaps, because of) her willingness to abuse power.

The reaction to the investigation's findings will doubtless fall along party lines: those who support Gov. Palin will continue to support her; those who don't, won't. In fact, the last couple of election cycles seem to have been a contest between those willing to abuse their power and those willing to honor our laws and uphold our Constitution. This changes nothing.

Case in point:

Gee the Dem witch hunt could not nail Sarah in the weeks before the election.

I think you mean bipartisan witch hunt - but why start letting facts get in the way of your opinions this late in life?

Could help McCain it is so obviously a gross political maneuver

Well, let's hope that all those gross Alaskan Republicans who have been pursuing this from the outset pay the political price. Predictability, thy name is Ted.

This post has been edited by Wertz: Oct 11 2008, 02:27 AM

[Ted]

think you mean bipartisan witch hunt - but why start letting facts get in the way of your opinions this late in life?

Not the majority of em- the ones seen in the picture with Obama I mean.

And ya Palin did not please all Republicans in Alaska either – I wonder why?

[Paladin Elspeth]

think you mean bipartisan witch hunt - but why start letting facts get in the way of your opinions this late in life?

Not the majority of em- the ones seen in the picture with Obama I mean.

And ya Palin did not please all Republicans in Alaska either – I wonder why?

Poor Ted--it appears that the Republicans in the legislature were clearly the majority in this investigation. Yeah, I'm sure Palin would have preferred her appointed personnel board to have made the determination. Too bad, so sad.

Now, do we want to talk about Palin's ethics, especially her letting the First Dude dabble in official business? I didn't think so.

Abuse of power, imagine that. Is that what they mean by "ready on Day One"?

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Oct 11 2008, 02:35 AM

[Ted]

Yeah, I'm sure Palin would have preferred her appointed personnel board to have made the determination. Too bad, so sad

.

Actually PE its bad for the Palin haters like you. And it will not mean squat in the election. Needless to say the Rezko – Obama scandal was far worse – although buried.

“A family grudge wasn't the sole reason for firing Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan after he refused to dismiss the trooper, but was a contributing factor. But Palin still had the authority to dismiss Monegan last year as a department head, the report found.


"I find that, although Walt Monegan's refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to his termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that, Governor Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive branch department heads," the chief investigator said in the report.
The report found that Palin violated a state ethics law that prohibits public officials from using their office for personal gain, but it does not recommend sanctions or a criminal investigation.”

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politi..._abused_po.html

[Paladin Elspeth]

Yeah, I'm sure Palin would have preferred her appointed personnel board to have made the determination. Too bad, so sad

.

Actually PE its bad for the Palin haters like you. And it will not mean squat in the election. Needless to say the Rezko – Obama scandal was far worse – although buried.

"A family grudge wasn't the sole reason for firing Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan after he refused to dismiss the trooper, but was a contributing factor. But Palin still had the authority to dismiss Monegan last year as a department head, the report found.


"I find that, although Walt Monegan's refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to his termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that, Governor Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive branch department heads," the chief investigator said in the report.
The report found that Palin violated a state ethics law that prohibits public officials from using their office for personal gain, but it does not recommend sanctions or a criminal investigation."

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politi..._abused_po.html

I don't hate Sarah Palin. Why is everything so either/or with you? Life isn't that simple. That's why I don't hate Bill Ayers either. You know, Sarah and Todd figured they were doing the "right thing" harassing Monegan to fire the state trooper, sort of like Bill Ayers thought he was doing the "right thing" plotting and actively protesting the Vietnam War and the war machine that was running it, sending soldiers to kill and to be killed.

I am just as willing to forgive Sarah and Todd Palin as I am willing to forgive Bill Ayers. "Let the one who is without sin cast the first stone" is what I have been taught.

Maybe they'll get off with a "slap on the wrist" too, huh?

EDIT: But I do wonder how much in the shadows Todd Palin would be in the Office of the Vice President, whether Sarah would give him copies of emails and other official documents. If she is serious about being the VP, I would strongly suggest that she avoid pulling that kind of noise.

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Oct 11 2008, 02:49 AM

[Ted]

. You know, Sarah and Todd figured they were doing the "right thing" harassing Monegan to fire the state trooper

The dope threatened her family and tasered a 10 year old kid – and he is still working and carrying a gun. Sounds like something is wrong with that.

sort of like Bill Ayers thought he was doing the "right thing" plotting and actively protesting the Vietnam War and the war machine that was running it, sending soldiers to kill and to be killed.

Hey PE I was there and part of the SDS when the split took place – we all demonstrated got tear gassed etc. but the nutcases who split off and formed the Weathermen, including Ayres were more than a little nutty. The man is still far left and so is Obama.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...p;sq=weathermen

http://patriotroom.com/?p=2764

This post has been edited by Ted: Oct 11 2008, 03:00 AM

[slim]

. You know, Sarah and Todd figured they were doing the "right thing" harassing Monegan to fire the state trooper

The dope threatened her family and tasered a 10 year old kid – and he is still working and carrying a gun. Sounds like something is wrong with that.

The question isn't about what the trooper did. The question is about what Palin did.

If there is something wrong with the system, you don't simply do whatever you like. You correct what the problem is with the system, you don't break the system even further.



1. Should Sarah Palin face legal consequences as a result of her actions?

2. Will this have any effect on the presidential race?

1. Only if another elected official would face such consequences in a similar situation. Meaning, no, I don't believe she should. That doesn't mean that it is okay, but realistically it is not of such huge proportions to warrant further action in my opinion.

2. Not one bit. I don't think anyone was waiting for this report to make a decision on who to vote for. Most people had already formed an opinion of Governor Palin long before today.

This post has been edited by slim: Oct 11 2008, 03:12 AM

[Paladin Elspeth]

Hey PE I was there and part of the SDS when the split took place – we all demonstrated got tear gassed etc. but the nutcases who split off and formed the Weathermen, including Ayres were more than a little nutty. The man is still far left and so is Obama.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...p;sq=weathermen

http://patriotroom.com/?p=2764

And do you want me to forgive you, Ted, for being part of the SDS? I didn't demonstrate. Does that make me a better person than you? Not really. I forgive you, although you didn't offend me personally. I will not hold it against you, even if you run for office sometime. But you gotta know that there are some who would call you a commie/pinko just for that, and would consider themselves more patriotic/above you, and take measures to make sure that everyone saw you in that context. It isn't fair, is it?

It seems to me that legal remedies were called for in the case of this state trooper. Sarah and her husband, whether for good reason or not, were misusing the Governor's office the way they sought their version of justice. That's why it's called wrongdoing.

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Oct 11 2008, 04:04 AM

[CruisingRam]

PE- you hit it right on the head- it was NEVER Wooten that was the center or even part of the equatiobn- it is that the rules HAD been followed by Monegan vis-a-vis Wooten, the contract followed, grievences and reprimands dolled out, investigation done, and done quite well actually. They threw out evidence with no corroboration, and busted him on things that had corroboration.

And Ted- really, you couldn't be more wrong about the bipartisan committee- this report would have NEVER gone through without REPUBLICAN votes which are the MAJORITY on the commitee.

She did wrong Ted- not a major wrong, but she made it more wrong by behaving wrongly.

[AuthorMusician]

PE- you hit it right on the head- it was NEVER Wooten that was the center or even part of the equatiobn- it is that the rules HAD been followed by Monegan vis-a-vis Wooten, the contract followed, grievences and reprimands dolled out, investigation done, and done quite well actually. They threw out evidence with no corroboration, and busted him on things that had corroboration.

And Ted- really, you couldn't be more wrong about the bipartisan committee- this report would have NEVER gone through without REPUBLICAN votes which are the MAJORITY on the commitee.

She did wrong Ted- not a major wrong, but she made it more wrong by behaving wrongly.

Seems to me that Ted's logic is that Palin is supposed to be against the Republican Party in Alaska, being as all Republicans are corrupt. In Alaska I am assuming, rather than nationwide. So the Alaskan Republicans are out to get her.

I don't agree with that logic, but sure seems to be what it is. It's along the lines of McCain/Palin being mavericks, not Republicans. Also it's reminiscent of compasionate conservative, distantly related to "I'm not a crook!" It's most definately along the lines of blaming someone else for the shortcomings of Palin.

I'm thinking that this situation with Palin will not help attract supporters from the still undecided voters. Add this to the anger and hatred being spewed at McCain/Palin rallies, and there you go. McCain even got boos when he tried to calm down the hardcore Republicans. What a (lynch?) party pooper.

The final debate is on Wednesday. Is there anything else that can go wrong with the McCain campaign? Oh yeah, lots. It could make Democratic food fights look like slumber parties after the lights go out and the giggling subsides.

[CruisingRam]

AM, to show the desperation and ignorance of Ted even further- the main two players in this investigation, are Andrew Halcro- a lifelong republican, who, BTW- ran for governer on the republican ticket, Lyda Green, senate president- again, a republican, and thier main cheerleader in the press, Donald Fagan, an ultra-conservative pundit that has been her chief critic from the start.

The dems are completely blameless and were completely unbiased in thier investigation.

Too bad Ted is so blinded by his partisanism that he can't even see it is her own party against her.

[BoF]

I just heard part of a Sarah Palin speech from Johnstown, Pa. She said that she and John McCain were going to clean up "abuse of power" in Washington. How utterly ironic.

It’s more likely that in the unfortunate event McCain is elected, Palin and Alaska’s “First Dude” will continue the pattern of comingling their official and private affairs.

[Ted]

PE
And do you want me to forgive you, Ted, for being part of the SDS? I didn't demonstrate. Does that make me a better person than you?

The SDS never killed anyone and the people I knew were not violent. All the people who wanted to do violence and did – including killing a cop in Boston – split off and formed the Weathermen – including Ayres. So PE I don’t need or request your forgiveness. I got away from the SDS with many others including Kerry when it became clear they were primarily a Communist/Socilaist movement. Obviously my politics is now far more conservative – in fact my current disgust for the far left started then.

It seems to me that legal remedies were called for in the case of this state trooper

Yoy apparently did not get the decision. From my post above

“Governor Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive branch department heads," the chief investigator said in the report.”
And this is the best the Dem lead witch hunt could pull of for the promised “October Surprise” – I am sure the DNC was crushed.

CR
The dems are completely blameless and were completely unbiased in thier investigation.

You have to be kidding -

[Paladin Elspeth]

I know CruisingRam better than I know you. In addition, CruisingRam lives in Alaska where this news is 24/7. I choose to believe him, Ted.

I am glad that you have "rehabilitated" yourself, that you are no longer part of "those people" who demonstrated against the Vietnam War. But somehow I don't think you've quite gotten to the point where you have the right to look down your nose at them. Obviously at some point you thought as they did. That didn't make you a bad person, and it doesn't make them irredeemable, even if the GOP (not the Annenberg part of the GOP) thinks so.

If you think that McCain and Sarah Palin are "all that and a bag of chips" that is certainly your prerogative. I somehow doubt that Obama's association with Ayers has really changed your mind in any meaningful way. It's just another excuse to diss the Democratic nominee. Well, diss away.

But I'm not buying it.

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Oct 11 2008, 04:23 PM

[Ted]

I am glad that you have "rehabilitated" yourself, that you are no longer part of "those people" who demonstrated against Vietnam War

.

I was against that stupid war. Run by idiot LBJ who had not a clue – wasted 58,000 American lives. I no longer agree with the very far left – but it does seem Obama is still there with friends like Ayres – and that is the point here isn’t it PE.

I somehow doubt that Obama's association with Ayers has really changed your mind in any meaningful way. It's just another excuse to diss the Democratic nominee. Well, diss away

.

Only confirms what his voting record and other associations indicate. He is a very very liberal Democrat – and I am sure you love that but I don’t.

Associating with a man who to this day is a far left unrepentant terrorist shows bad judgment – at best

[Paladin Elspeth]

I was against that stupid war. Run by idiot LBJ who had not a clue – wasted 58,000 American lives. I no longer agree with the very far left – but it does seem Obama is still there with friends like Ayres – and that is the point here isn't it PE.

No, it actually isn't the point here. But it might be in the Ayers thread.

Did I miss the part where you mentioned anything about Sarah Palin in your post?

While the Ayers sidetrip here is interesting and obviously got me sidetracked, this thread is about Sarah Palin and how she used her office for a personal vendetta. It was the wrong thing to do.

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Oct 11 2008, 04:43 PM

[Ted]

While the Ayers sidetrip here is interesting and obviously got me a little sidetracked, this thread is about Sarah Palin and how she used her office for a personal vendetta. It was the wrong thing to do.

Which part of they never proved that did you miss PE? Notice as you read the ruling how many times the word “probably” is used.

Would you like to be labeled with something on a “probably” ?

Notice again that they said her firing the man: "was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority"