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> Sarah Palin Ethics Probe Complete, Abuse of Power?
DaytonRocker
post Oct 11 2008, 01:49 AM
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The big news tonight is that an ethics probe found Sarah Palin abused her power by dismissing the state's public safety commissioner. While finding she did not illegally fire Walt Monegan, the probe found that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.11O(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act.:

QUOTE
The legislature reaffirms that each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust."

Questions for debate?

1. Should Sarah Palin face legal consequences as a result of her actions?

2. Will this have any effect on the presidential race?


This post has been edited by DaytonRocker: Oct 11 2008, 01:51 AM
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Wertz
post Oct 30 2008, 02:34 AM
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QUOTE(Ted @ Oct 29 2008, 10:06 PM) *
How could an investigation instigated coincidentally right after Palin is selected as VP candidate, and pursued by the wrong body in Alaska be anything else than a witch hunt? Is it just a trick of fate sir?

Monegan was dismissed on July 11, 2008. The Republican-dominated Alaska Legislature, a perfectly appropriate and legally sanctioned body for conducting such an investigation, hired Stephen Branchflower to investigate the dismissal on August 1, 2008. Sen. McCain announced that he had chosen Palin as his running mate on August 29, 2008 - nearly a month after the investigation was launched.

There's no trick of fate here, Ted - just the trickery of a couple of random lies being repeated by you. As you clearly have nothing else, I'll take that response as a retraction of your misuse of the term "witch hunt". Thanks. thumbsup.gif
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CruisingRam
post Oct 30 2008, 04:03 AM
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QUOTE(Ted @ Oct 29 2008, 06:06 PM) *
QUOTE
So, Ted, just out of curiosity: In light of facts that have been clear to everyone else here for some time, are you still maintaining that this was "a witch hunt" (or what you previously called "a Dem witch hunt" and "a Dem lead witch hunt")? If so, on what possible grounds


How could an investigation instigated coincidentally right after Palin is selected as VP candidate, and pursued by the wrong body in Alaska be anything else than a witch hunt? Is it just a trick of fate sir? laugh.gif laugh.gif




Dude- are you mental? Seriously? As wertz posted- this was completely on it's way BEFORE she was selected.

Some of those same folks that you are saying are so politically motivated and all that came to her defense in this (which, BTW, I agree, that piece was a straight up hit job based on something she needs to be credited for- which Dems and republicans alike defend her on, and in fact, line up for credit, as they should)

QUOTE
http://juneauempire.com/stories/102908/loc_349549309.shtml

Democrats join defense of Palin, natural gas pipeline<H2 class=subhead>Lawmakers say report by Associated Press was unfair to governor

By Pat Forgey | Juneau Empire

Alaska legislators are criticizing a story on Gov. Sarah Palin by The Associated Press that challenged Palin's top accomplishment as governor - jump-starting progress on a natural gas pipeline.

"I thought it was a pretty shoddy reporting job, honestly," said Sen. Bill Wielechowski, D-Anchorage, among many Democrats and supporters of Barack Obama who are coming to Palin's defense.

<snip>

The Legislature and Palin sought to make sure the pipeline was operated as an independent pipeline, whether it was owned by one of the state's major oil and gas lease holders or an independent company.

The AP reporters called that process "flawed" and linked it to an alleged conflict of interest by a Palin administration staff member.

<snip>

The Legislature nearly unanimously established rules that required an independently operated pipeline, but allowed the producers to submit their own bid under terms resembling an independent pipeline.

The AP reporters said seeking an independent pipeline ultimately favored TransCanada and excluded the producers, which was why the process was flawed.
<snip>


This post has been edited by Jaime: Oct 30 2008, 05:49 PM
Reason for edit: Edited to conform cited material with forum rules
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Ted
post Oct 30 2008, 11:46 AM
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QUOTE(Wertz @ Oct 29 2008, 10:34 PM) *
QUOTE(Ted @ Oct 29 2008, 10:06 PM) *
How could an investigation instigated coincidentally right after Palin is selected as VP candidate, and pursued by the wrong body in Alaska be anything else than a witch hunt? Is it just a trick of fate sir?

Monegan was dismissed on July 11, 2008. The Republican-dominated Alaska Legislature, a perfectly appropriate and legally sanctioned body for conducting such an investigation, hired Stephen Branchflower to investigate the dismissal on August 1, 2008. Sen. McCain announced that he had chosen Palin as his running mate on August 29, 2008 - nearly a month after the investigation was launched.

There's no trick of fate here, Ted - just the trickery of a couple of random lies being repeated by you. As you clearly have nothing else, I'll take that response as a retraction of your misuse of the term "witch hunt". Thanks. thumbsup.gif

This covers it - http://paganpower.wordpress.com/2008/10/11...lin-chronicles/

A witch hunt from day one, regardless of when it started.
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CruisingRam
post Oct 30 2008, 03:54 PM
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QUOTE(Ted @ Oct 30 2008, 03:46 AM) *
QUOTE(Wertz @ Oct 29 2008, 10:34 PM) *
QUOTE(Ted @ Oct 29 2008, 10:06 PM) *
How could an investigation instigated coincidentally right after Palin is selected as VP candidate, and pursued by the wrong body in Alaska be anything else than a witch hunt? Is it just a trick of fate sir?

Monegan was dismissed on July 11, 2008. The Republican-dominated Alaska Legislature, a perfectly appropriate and legally sanctioned body for conducting such an investigation, hired Stephen Branchflower to investigate the dismissal on August 1, 2008. Sen. McCain announced that he had chosen Palin as his running mate on August 29, 2008 - nearly a month after the investigation was launched.

There's no trick of fate here, Ted - just the trickery of a couple of random lies being repeated by you. As you clearly have nothing else, I'll take that response as a retraction of your misuse of the term "witch hunt". Thanks. thumbsup.gif

This covers it - http://paganpower.wordpress.com/2008/10/11...lin-chronicles/

A witch hunt from day one, regardless of when it started.



You will just believe any old blogger over the facts any day, won't you Ted? rolleyes.gif

So far, you have posted and been caught either lyin' or slipping on the following points:

1) "It was a Dem witch hunt"- oops, I mean REPUBLICAN witch hunt. rolleyes.gif

2) This investigation was because she was named VP - oops, started before she was nominated rolleyes.gif

3) she was found not to have broken any laws or rules- oops, statute was quoted

4) No jurisdiction by the legislature-oops, state supreme court said otherwise

5) Oh no, what about Wooten- oops, he had been disciplined according to the law BEFORE walt monegan was even appointed- meaning that, had he done what the governer asked- HE would have been breaking the law.

Problem is Ted, every.single.argument.you.have.made. has been shows to be either an outright lie or horribly wrong.

She was found to be breaking ethics statutes by the legislature, as she should have. The report was fair and balanced, could have been worse, had not honorable people been doing it.

Get over it Ted- she was caught slipping. No blog is going to change that FACT.
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Ted
post Oct 30 2008, 04:34 PM
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QUOTE
3) she was found not to have broken any laws or rules- oops, statute was quoted


Oops that said it was “likely” she may have done something – but oops no proof - no crime – just people who may not like her – Oh well..

Oops you have squat on you great governor – who if not elected most in Alaska will be real glad to have back imo.

"Randy Ruedrich, the Republican chairman in Alaska, is someone you might suspect would be a friend and ally of Palin. He isn't. She helped drive him off the state's Oil and Gas Conservation Commission, criticized him publicly, and later tried to get him ousted as party chairman. Ruedrich is part of the "body count" of male politicians Palin left behind as she rose to become governor of Alaska. Yet Ruedrich says Palin is smart, very capable, and a political star.

Ruedrich isn't alone among Alaska politicians who take a cold-blooded view of Palin. Another Republican who has followed her career closely believes Palin has a ruthless streak. Yet this person, too, regards Palin as a rare talent with the skill and self-confidence to be a national political leader. And Palin's Alaska acquaintances were certain, from the moment she became John McCain's vice presidential running mate, that her acceptance speech would be a smashing success and she'd have little trouble in her debate with Joe Biden. Turned out they were right."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Publ...15/749yrvfv.asp




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CruisingRam
post Oct 30 2008, 04:47 PM
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Wrong again Ted- read the posts-

"I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110 (a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act."

she violated the law Ted, and was found to be in violation by the appropriate body, according to state law and upheld by the constitution of our state.

Don't need a blogger to tell me otherwise- you got facts, post them, but everything else you post is an op-ed article.

To quote homer simpson- don't you get tired of being wrong all the time? hmmm.gif


Psst- Ted- Randy Ruedrich had NOTHING to do with the investigation, nothing. Doesn't even belong in this debate.


This post has been edited by CruisingRam: Oct 30 2008, 04:48 PM
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Ted
post Oct 30 2008, 05:07 PM
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QUOTE
find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110 (a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act."


This is typical of a finding put forth when nothing else can be drummed up.

What do you think the penalty for this heinous crime will be CR.??? hmmm.gif

How many other Alaska politicians have had this problem times 10. How many are owned by big oil. ohmy.gif

She changed the position of someone she was entitled to for gods sake. Give it a rest.
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Jaime
post Oct 30 2008, 05:51 PM
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Let's stop belittling each other and being rude. Debate in a civil fashion, please.

TOPICS

1. Should Sarah Palin face legal consequences as a result of her actions?

2. Will this have any effect on the presidential race?
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CruisingRam
post Oct 30 2008, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE(Ted @ Oct 30 2008, 09:07 AM) *
QUOTE
find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110 (a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act."


This is typical of a finding put forth when nothing else can be drummed up.

What do you think the penalty for this heinous crime will be CR.??? hmmm.gif

How many other Alaska politicians have had this problem times 10. How many are owned by big oil. ohmy.gif

She changed the position of someone she was entitled to for gods sake. Give it a rest.



Punishment? I hope very little, after all, in the grand scale of corruption, this was a traffic ticket. What happened after should have been considered a string of misdemeanors. But nothing that serious as far as needing jail or anything- a reprimand would be okay with me, for the initial violation.

And, at first, she was very Alaskan about it- "I welcome the investigation, I will cooperate"

I don't think the findings AFTER her being nominated Veep would have been any different had she just continued to be our governer- I find the commitees report to be balanced to the point of being absurdly neutral.

She had a minor ethic violation IMHO. It is what she did IN HER BEHAVIOR regarding the investigation AFTER she was nominated Veep to be found wanting ethically and morally.

I suppose her "handlers" can be given some blame- but her behavior towards honorable people, some of whom you accuse of staging a "witch hunt" has more honor in thier little finger than Palin has accumulated in a lifetime.

SHE or her HANDLERS made it personal- they didn't.

Had she just ante'd up to the kitty and taken her medicine, I, for one, would find it easy to forgive and move on.

She has lost a lot of respect for her behavior regarding her actions post-nomination, and it very well may cost her the next election. I doubt it though, she followed such a lousy governer, no one wants to risk it over a lousy firing scanal. thumbsup.gif

I don't think you will ever see her be as popular in this state than the couple months BEFORE she was nominated, where everyone was cheering her, including me, for having a string of pro-Alaskan victories.

If Lyda Green or Andrew Halcro were on that commitee, I would call it a witch hunt, and denounce it- but those folks on that commitee were her allies, and, as I pointed out, are defending her now in the article on AP regarding the AGIA legislation.

Ted- you have been wrong about nearly every aspect in this debate, from jurisdiction to dates of investigation

why don't you just admit she was caught over some minor wrongdoing and then go trumpet her accomplishments? I certainly could buy into that line, but NOT one where you outright deny that she didn't mess up here, anymore than deny she messed up on the issue of charging for rape kits.

It is just indefensible. hmmm.gif
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Ted
post Oct 30 2008, 07:57 PM
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I still don’t get it CR. Seems like a big stink about nothig - as you admit above - a traffic ticket. And if what she did was wrong - I would be wrong as well.

“On August 28, in an interview with Anchorage Daily News, Monegan said, "For the record, no one ever said fire Wooten. Not the governor. Not Todd. Not any of the other staff. What they said directly was more along the lines of 'This isn't a person that we would want to be representing our state troopers.'"
As a political appointee, the Alaskan Public Safety Commissioner serves at the governor’s pleasure. The Governor can fire the Public Safety Commissioner at any time without cause.
The report released by the legislative committee concluded that
Governor Sarah Palin abused her power as Governor in that her conduct violated AS 39.52.110(a) of the Ethics Act, which provides "The legislature reaffirms that each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust."
Although Walt Monegan's refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to his termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that, Governor Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive branch department heads.
The two conclusions are contradictory. If "Governor Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive branch department heads," how did she abuse her power as governor?
A spokeswoman for the McCain-Palin campaign, Meghan Stapleton, said the report showed Palin acted legally in her decision to dismiss Monegan. The campaign also characterized the inquiry as a partisan attack on the vice presidential candidate. Governor Palin says Monegan was fired as part of a legitimate budget dispute.
The nearly 300-page report does not recommend sanctions or a criminal investigation”.
http://www.truthnews.net/world/2008100208.htm

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CruisingRam
post Oct 30 2008, 09:00 PM
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It was a big deal because SHE made it a big deal Ted- that is what you just can't seem to get here- that, and I won't even read an article by you if you insist on posting bloggers and op-ed pieces.

The quote at first was fine, where she broke ethics laws.

What you don't seem to get ted, is that she is being hoisted upon her own Petard- she misused her office to fulfill a personal vendetta against a state employee- that is just plain wrong, no matter how you parse it.

She asked Monegan to break the law as well- by illegally firing him.

She needs to be called in it- because- gasp- it is the RIGHT THING TO DO.

She can't just go firing people over her own personal vendettas- that is what she promised NOT to do, as governer.

She got what she deserved, attention wise, for this issue, based on her mistreatment of good people Ted.

In the end, that is what this investigation was all about. We just got tired of looking the other way when elected officials do things unethically. thumbsup.gif

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Ted
post Oct 30 2008, 10:10 PM
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QUOTE
What you don't seem to get ted, is that she is being hoisted upon her own Petard- she misused her office to fulfill a personal vendetta against a state employee- that is just plain wrong, no matter how you parse it.


No – all she might have done is suggest that a guy who is obviously a dirt bag be looked at – then later when she moved a man it was assumed (with not a shred of proof) that the Trooper issue was part of the reason for it.

I would have done the same. If the trooper was in my chain of command and he did what he clearly has I would have done more than Palin. You CR?

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CruisingRam
post Oct 30 2008, 10:13 PM
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There was lots of proof ted- there you go again- that is whay they decided and voted on the FACT that she violated ethics code.

Wooten's discipline was not something that is even part of the discussion, unless, again, you are saying it is okay for a governer to pressure law enforcement officials to pursue a personal vendetta outside law and contract?

Even bringing it up with Monegan was against the law and unethical.

I would have monitored the trooper and let it go Ted- because he was disciplined and investigated NOT ON HEARSAY but on facts, and had recieved punishment that is proscribed by law and by contract.

After that, you have to wait for him to screw up again, if he in fact, does screw up again.

To do anything else was unethical and against the law.

This post has been edited by CruisingRam: Oct 30 2008, 10:15 PM
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nebraska29
post Oct 30 2008, 10:17 PM
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QUOTE
I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110 (a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act."


A statute is still a statutue. You said she wasn't convicted of anything when you said this:

QUOTE
Oops that said it was “likely” she may have done something – but oops no proof - no crime – just people who may not like her – Oh well..


That is completely not true as the statute number is even quoted previously. The word "likely" isn't in the item quoted. I highlighted the size of it for ya. flowers.gif

BTW-Where is the evidence that the committee members were out to get her? Did they have an anti-Palin committee? Did they sponsor a primary opponent? Surely they did something public to make their displeasure known? hmmm.gif

Oh yeah-and how does an investigation not have the authority from a duly elected body? That was never addressed really.
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Ted
post Oct 30 2008, 10:40 PM
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QUOTE(nebraska29 @ Oct 30 2008, 06:17 PM) *
QUOTE
I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110 (a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act."


A statute is still a statutue. You said she wasn't convicted of anything when you said this:

QUOTE
Oops that said it was “likely” she may have done something – but oops no proof - no crime – just people who may not like her – Oh well..


That is completely not true as the statute number is even quoted previously. The word "likely" isn't in the item quoted. I highlighted the size of it for ya. flowers.gif

BTW-Where is the evidence that the committee members were out to get her? Did they have an anti-Palin committee? Did they sponsor a primary opponent? Surely they did something public to make their displeasure known? hmmm.gif

Oh yeah-and how does an investigation not have the authority from a duly elected body? That was never addressed really.


You have to read it sir.
"I find that, although Walt Monegan's refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to his termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that, Governor Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive branch department heads," the chief investigator said in the report.
The report found that Palin violated a state ethics law that prohibits public officials from using their office for personal gain, but it does not recommend sanctions or a criminal investigation.”

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politi..._abused_po.html

And no sanctions or criminal investigations means that had squat and knew it

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nebraska29
post Oct 31 2008, 12:37 AM
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QUOTE
You have to read it sir.


You evidently haven't read it discerningly sir. There were FOUR findings of the report. Click on page eight of the report. There wasn't one finding Ted. The line that you quoted was correct, however, it has nothing to do with the item that was bolded by me. She was guilty of the first finding, not on the second. The second doesn't absolve the first.

Oh yeah, and how about that evidence as to the vendetta against Palin on the part of commission members? whistling.gif
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CruisingRam
post Oct 31 2008, 01:20 AM
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QUOTE(nebraska29 @ Oct 30 2008, 04:37 PM) *
QUOTE
You have to read it sir.


You evidently haven't read it discerningly sir. There were FOUR findings of the report. Click on page eight of the report. There wasn't one finding Ted. The line that you quoted was correct, however, it has nothing to do with the item that was bolded by me. She was guilty of the first finding, not on the second. The second doesn't absolve the first.

Oh yeah, and how about that evidence as to the vendetta against Palin on the part of commission members? whistling.gif


Well, it seems that all the usual conservative folks on this site that may have something other than "uh uh" to offer in all the evidence provided, and Ted really can't defend any points of his position at this juncture- unless one of the pro-Palin types that may be on this board (uh, are there any? hmmm.gif w00t.gif ) can come up with something new, what we have so far is this:

1) an impartial and careful and even courageous legislative commitee, made up of mostly fellow republicans, all of them have consistantly voted WITH Sarah on most legislation- found that she broke a statute/

2) the supreme court said the legislature not only had jurisdiction, but were the primary body to do this duty.

3) IT would have been a minor offense, something she should have apologized for and moved on, and would have been no big deal.

4) Monegan was powerless, short of breaking the law or union contract, in doing anything further to Wooten.

5) Wooten was a personal vendetta on the Palin side, and by using her office, she was unethical to pursue a personal vendetta.

Unless Ted can come up with something that can SERIOUSLY and in a non-partisan manner (as was the committee that said she done wrong- 8Rs and 4Ds- all had been her allies at one point)

NOT a right wing blog or op-ed piece- EVIDENCE that can counter what has been proven without a shadow of a doubt here, or at least, a palin booster with some common sense, I guess the points have been made.

Thanks to Nebraska on this debate for also attempting to give out some plain ol' facts,
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Ted
post Oct 31 2008, 01:52 AM
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QUOTE
CR
Unless Ted can come up with something that can SERIOUSLY and in a non-partisan manner (as was the committee that said she done wrong- 8Rs and 4Ds- all had been her allies at one point)


Like I have said – it was imo not a “vendetta” but a legitimate questioning of the Trooper in question – and I would have done the same thing in her plase.

I guess I would then be guilty of “ethical” violations.

What I find to be an “ethical” issue is how this wack job of a Trooper who not only threatened people but tasered a 10 year old gets a minor slap on the wrist and is still driving around with a gun and a badge in Alaska!

Is there something wrong up there CR? TELL ME what would have happened to Palin if she did half of what this man did.

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CruisingRam
post Oct 31 2008, 02:00 AM
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QUOTE(Ted @ Oct 30 2008, 05:52 PM) *
QUOTE
CR
Unless Ted can come up with something that can SERIOUSLY and in a non-partisan manner (as was the committee that said she done wrong- 8Rs and 4Ds- all had been her allies at one point)


Like I have said – it was imo not a "vendetta" but a legitimate questioning of the Trooper in question – and I would have done the same thing in her plase.

I guess I would then be guilty of "ethical" violations.

What I find to be an "ethical" issue is how this wack job of a Trooper who not only threatened people but tasered a 10 year old gets a minor slap on the wrist and is still driving around with a gun and a badge in Alaska!

Is there something wrong up there CR? TELL ME what would have happened to Palin if she did half of what this man did.


To Clarify - you find nothing wrong, if you were governer, to pressure your subordinate into acting outside the law to pursue a trooper, who had already been disciplined according to law and contract, just because you can throw your power around like that if you want to? hmmm.gif
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Ted
post Oct 31 2008, 02:11 AM
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QUOTE
To Clarify - you find nothing wrong, if you were governer, to pressure your subordinate into acting outside the law to pursue a trooper, who had already been disciplined according to law and contract, just because you can throw your power around like that if you want to
?


Outside the “law” – Oh you mean the “ethical” law – not the real law in the real world where if you threaten someone or taser a minor there are legal consequences – which if you are a Trooper would be loss of job, gun and badge.

Ya you bet I would question his boss if he was threatening my family – count on it.
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