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> Sex!, Are you afraid to talk about it?
moif
post Sep 10 2012, 07:28 PM
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Sarah Dunant is an author who recently posted a commentary regarding the long debate about sex which was kicked off by feminism. Her point of view asks, where are all the male voices in the debate, and have men become afraid to talk about sex?

QUOTE(BBC)
For years now it has been women who have made the cultural running when it comes to really talking about sex.

Feminism spawned a huge debate about all such things. From the uncompromising idea that all intercourse is close to rape because it is about subjugation, to those like Camille Paglia or Katie Roiphe who took modern women to task for not taking enough responsibility for their own behaviour: if we are to own our desire and be equal players in this dangerous game - we have to careful how and when we chose to paint ourselves as victims.

[snip]

One thing I do know. If [Fifty Shades of Grey] had been written by and for men highlighting the S rather than the M and outselling Antony Beevor and footballers' biographies there would be any army of women commentating on it. And that, I suppose, is what worries me. Where are the heavy-weight male voices debating contemporary sexuality? It's difficult - getting men to talk honestly about sex. Not the nudge-nudge in the pub, or the throw-away gags of comedians, but serious questioning. We accept that in the aftermath of feminism growing up male can be hard: but where are the big public conversations about men's sexuality. The impact of pornography. How far has our desire changed theirs? Is their line between what is and is not acceptable different from ours?
Source.

The questions offered for your consideration are;

Are modern men afraid to debate sex, and if so, why?

Has the free availability of internet pornography had any direct impact on sexual relationships between men and women?
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Raptavio
post Sep 11 2012, 08:39 PM
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QUOTE(moif @ Sep 11 2012, 12:43 PM) *
I hadn't read 'Fifty of Shades of Grey', and now I'm thankful for that!

QUOTE(Raptavio @ Sep 11 2012, 04:04 AM) *
Not at all. I'm perfectly OK with BDSM relationships, whether gay, straight, or heterosexual, with either partner as the dominant (or switch, for that matter). It's the fact that the particular relationship depicted in the novel is, irrespective of the sexuality involved, unhealthy. (Though I'm told it improves in the sequels). The title character is an emotionally stunted, manipulative, jealous jerk. Now, I could tie this into the sex aspect in that a sexual relationship that involves "power exchange" is particularly vulnerable to the sorts of character flaws exemplified by Grey as the nature of these types of relationships includes, by mutual consent, emotional and mental manipulation, control, and raw, base human emotion.
I mistook your previous statement. I thought you were speaking of possesive, codependent relationships in general. I perceive now you were refering to characters in the book 'Fifty Shades of Grey'.


Actually I was talking about them in general, criticizing the portrayal of the characters in those terms.

Possessiveness in a relationship means one partner sees the other as a possession, rather than a partner.
Codependency in a relationship means one partner is emotionally or mentally dependent on the other, rather than someone who is capable of being a whole person on his or her own and whose relationship with another enhances and adds to a life, rather than providing the illusion of making an insufficient life whole.
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moif
post Sep 11 2012, 11:49 PM
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QUOTE(Raptavio @ Sep 11 2012, 10:39 PM) *
Actually I was talking about them in general, criticizing the portrayal of the characters in those terms.

Possessiveness in a relationship means one partner sees the other as a possession, rather than a partner.
I'm not sure about that. Isn't sex by its very nature an act of possession? Is all possessiveness equal? Aren't there degrees involved? Don't we all, no matter how enlightened and free we think of ourselves, need other people's love in order to feel love?


QUOTE(Raptavio)
Codependency in a relationship means one partner is emotionally or mentally dependent on the other, rather than someone who is capable of being a whole person on his or her own and whose relationship with another enhances and adds to a life, rather than providing the illusion of making an insufficient life whole.
I think this is a very narrow view of sufficiency. Your essentially saying there is only one model for a healthy relationship and it depends on self-sufficiency, something which many human beings are simply incapable of.

I have a different view. I tend to think that what ever helps you survive is 'healthy', and if you emotionally require another person to do this, it doesn't mean you are 'unhealthy'. It just means you are human. I'm not saying these things can't be unhealthy too, all things in moderation, but I find people have their own ways of dealing with life's complications, and a possesive, codependent relationship can be healthier than some one with the capacity of being a 'whole person' (what ever that might be) on his or her own.

This post has been edited by moif: Sep 12 2012, 10:03 AM
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Hobbes
post Sep 12 2012, 06:30 AM
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Are modern men afraid to debate sex, and if so, why?

No. But this strikes me as the classic men are from Mars women are from Venus scenario. Women talk about this stuff because it is what they do. Men don't for the same reason. We're just glad when they're talking amongst themselves, and not bothering us with it.

QUOTE
One thing I do know. If [Fifty Shades of Grey] had been written by and for men highlighting the S rather than the M and outselling Antony Beevor and footballers' biographies there would be any army of women commentating on it.


Of course there would...because talking about stuff like that is what women do.

This is neglecting the fact that if Fifty Shades of Grey was written by and for men, it would be renamed She's Hot, and there would just a picture inside. Men's idea of a great romantic movie is Gladiator. Consider that when you look at the lists of men's favorite and least favorite movies of all time, and women's, they are the same lists, only reversed. This would explain why there aren't armies of women out there commenting on all those footballer biographies.
Keep in mind the classic analogy of a man and his wife, sitting on the couch all afternoon, watching TV (or reading books, etc). The man walks away thinking he has just spent a wonderful time together with his wife, and the woman thinks wow, something is really wrong, he didn't even talk to me. Men just aren't geared to share their feelings or have those deep emotional talks. It's not that we don't have those feelings...we just don't feel any need to go around talking about it. Just the opposite, in fact.

What would be great is a novel, written by men for women, explaining this. There would indeed be armies of women commenting on it...and what they'd all be saying is 'what a bunch of cr ap'. Men get that women are different...it has always baffled me why women don't seem to get the reverse, when it is so glaringly obvious. No one writes romance novels for men because there is no market for it. If someone wrote a really good one, it would probably be a good read, but who is going to devote all that time and effort when it likely won't have any payoff? How many guys here have wondered "Gosh, I wish there was a good romance novel out there, written for me?"

Has the free availability of internet pornography had any direct impact on sexual relationships between men and women?

No, I don't think so. If anything, it has probably enhanced it.

This post has been edited by Hobbes: Sep 12 2012, 06:50 AM
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Paladin Elspeth
post Sep 12 2012, 07:39 AM
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Are modern men afraid to debate sex, and if so, why?

What do you mean, "debate" it? Seems to me the average male is for it, so it probably would not be in the form of a "for versus against" argument. It also seems to me that men would talk with other men about sex when there aren't women around for various reasons. First of all, there's the old adage, "Gentlemen don't tell." Beyond that, a man who might have a specific woman in mind could think that a woman would not want to spend sexual time with someone who "kissed" and told.
Then there's the sexual harassment issue at work that they would want to avoid.

With those exceptions in mind, I think that men speak of sex (debate? I'm not sure) more openly in current society than they ever did. It is in the highly personal, intimate moments with their sex partner that men might be reticent about talking about it. I guess it depends on the couple. If they don't communicate well about other things, why would they communicate well about the sex act? That's why there is no shortage of how-to books on communication that are bought and referenced when someone perceives that there is a problem with communication.


Has the free availability of internet pornography had any direct impact on sexual relationships between men and women?

I imagine that it has had some impact on heterosexual relationships, possibly like, "That's what I want you to do to me" or "I don't like what he's [she's] doing there." However, this is a guess on my part. I'm just not that interested in watching other people "do it."

I don't know, moif. Aside from locker room guffaws and the sexual version of "big fish" stories, are men reticent to talk about sex and "debate" it?

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CruisingRam
post Sep 12 2012, 10:40 AM
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It should be noted that there is a HUGE generational gap here- most folks responding her are over 40, at least. Porn and such are no big deal to the younger generation, and make no bones about viewing it or making it. Sex is not such a big deal, unless they are not getting enough of it I suppose. thumbsup.gif Women are far, far more aggressive and in charge of making thier needs known these days.
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Mrs. Pigpen
post Sep 12 2012, 11:51 AM
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QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 12 2012, 06:40 AM) *
It should be noted that there is a HUGE generational gap here- most folks responding her are over 40, at least. Porn and such are no big deal to the younger generation, and make no bones about viewing it or making it. Sex is not such a big deal, unless they are not getting enough of it I suppose. thumbsup.gif Women are far, far more aggressive and in charge of making thier needs known these days.


I'm sure we run in very different circles, but I'd caution anyone who thinks making porn and posting it on the worldwide web is a good idea. That would seem pretty obvious to me. It's there forever, and what seems cool at 18 can become a big deal in the future. No one likes to see their spouse/sigoth/mother/physician with a parade of ballsacks on her face. Longevity in relationships (and career advancement for that matter) and participation in porn don't seem to mix well. Go figure.
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CruisingRam
post Sep 12 2012, 12:36 PM
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QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Sep 12 2012, 03:51 AM) *
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 12 2012, 06:40 AM) *
It should be noted that there is a HUGE generational gap here- most folks responding her are over 40, at least. Porn and such are no big deal to the younger generation, and make no bones about viewing it or making it. Sex is not such a big deal, unless they are not getting enough of it I suppose. thumbsup.gif Women are far, far more aggressive and in charge of making thier needs known these days.


I'm sure we run in very different circles, but I'd caution anyone who thinks making porn and posting it on the worldwide web is a good idea. That would seem pretty obvious to me. It's there forever, and what seems cool at 18 can become a big deal in the future. No one likes to see their spouse/sigoth/mother/physician with a parade of ballsacks on her face. Longevity in relationships (and career advancement for that matter) and participation in porn don't seem to mix well. Go figure.


Not disagreeing with you in the least. Have a daughter myself, I believe you have all sons. Wouldn't want either to be featured prominantly in a porn vid. ohmy.gif
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Mrs. Pigpen
post Sep 12 2012, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 12 2012, 08:36 AM) *
QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Sep 12 2012, 03:51 AM) *
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 12 2012, 06:40 AM) *
It should be noted that there is a HUGE generational gap here- most folks responding her are over 40, at least. Porn and such are no big deal to the younger generation, and make no bones about viewing it or making it. Sex is not such a big deal, unless they are not getting enough of it I suppose. thumbsup.gif Women are far, far more aggressive and in charge of making thier needs known these days.


I'm sure we run in very different circles, but I'd caution anyone who thinks making porn and posting it on the worldwide web is a good idea. That would seem pretty obvious to me. It's there forever, and what seems cool at 18 can become a big deal in the future. No one likes to see their spouse/sigoth/mother/physician with a parade of ballsacks on her face. Longevity in relationships (and career advancement for that matter) and participation in porn don't seem to mix well. Go figure.


Not disagreeing with you in the least. Have a daughter myself, I believe you have all sons. Wouldn't want either to be featured prominantly in a porn vid. ohmy.gif


Why would this bother you?

If this new generation is so much more comparatively cosmopolitan, and "sex is not such a big deal", women being so aggressive, and all that. Shouldn't you be happy if she were so free of all that "sex is a big deal" baggage?

Yes, I have only sons. Thank God.

This post has been edited by Mrs. Pigpen: Sep 12 2012, 01:42 PM
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Raptavio
post Sep 12 2012, 01:46 PM
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QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Sep 12 2012, 08:41 AM) *
Yes, I have only sons. Thank God.


I have only sons, but why is that better than having a daughter?
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DaytonRocker
post Sep 12 2012, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE(Raptavio @ Sep 12 2012, 09:46 AM) *
QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Sep 12 2012, 08:41 AM) *
Yes, I have only sons. Thank God.


I have only sons, but why is that better than having a daughter?

Because she has a husband that would be forced to shoot the first guy that tried to date her - much like my stance on dating my little girl. Who is 13 going on 19. Very, very painful these days.
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Julian
post Sep 12 2012, 05:22 PM
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Are modern men afraid to debate sex, and if so, why?

Not really afraid, no. Bored, depressed, misunderstood/misunderstanding, bemused or just indifferent to talking about/debating it, maybe, but I don't think more than a tiny minority of men are afraid of the idea.

And listening to other people - specifically other men - talking about sex, it is next to impossible to screen out the culturally ingrained competitive impulse and feel the urge to either resent the other guy's success or pity/belittle his failures.

Listen to a group of male friends mixing socially, or a mixed-gender group where men are in the majority. The men spend most of their time trying competing with one another somehow to establish or reinforce a hierarchy, usually by trying to make the others in the group laugh, which is itself a type of competition (not, by any means, an automatically unhealthy one - I like it, but that may be because I'm pretty good at it). This is one of the reasons why men like sports and talking about sports so much, and often get so into the statistics - you get the opportunity to impress people with how much you know, and the people you're talking to are more than randomly likely to be impressed if you come up with something plausible that they don't know.

Where they do ask their friends (of either sex) for advice on solving a particular problem - whether it's about fixing a dripping tap (=faucet) or improving their sexual technique - usually all they want is a very specific list of instructions and that's it. They don't want to explore their feelings about it, they want to learn how to do it right/better and then they'll feel better. It's the doing something successfully that makes me feel better about it, not the talking about doing it, and I don't think I am a uniquely male specimen in that regard.

A group of women, on the other hand, is more likely to be supportive than competitive (though this also happens - I'm necessarily generalising here!). They laugh a lot too, but it's usually as a bonding thing where they laugh at the perceived weakness of someone outside the group (often a man) to make one of their number with a connection to that outsider feel better about themselves.

So, if a woman complains to her woman friends that a man she is seeing is useless in the sack, or demands a type of sex she doesn't know or doesn't like, the women are more likely to be supportive and either belittle the man and his demands to make her feel better; give examples of other such situations so she can see it's not just her problem, making her feel better; or give practical advice on how to do it (or do it better). And from what I've seen or heard, it's the talking about it, on it's own, that makes her feel better about it, not the subsequent 'doing'.

QUOTE(Hobbes @ Sep 12 2012, 07:30 AM) *
Keep in mind the classic analogy of a man and his wife, sitting on the couch all afternoon, watching TV (or reading books, etc). The man walks away thinking he has just spent a wonderful time together with his wife, and the woman thinks wow, something is really wrong, he didn't even talk to me. Men just aren't geared to share their feelings or have those deep emotional talks. It's not that we don't have those feelings...we just don't feel any need to go around talking about it.


I think there's a spectrum, like anything else, but for most men I'd guess the spectrum goes all the way from not feeling any need go around talking about it all the way to being reasonably ok with talking about it but just not wanting to be the one who starts the conversation.

QUOTE
What would be great is a novel, written by men for women, explaining this. There would indeed be armies of women commenting on it...and what they'd all be saying is 'what a bunch of crap'. Men get that women are different...it has always baffled me why women don't seem to get the reverse, when it is so glaringly obvious.


^^^THIS^^^ With silver bells on. Most men understand women at least as much as most women understand themselves i.e. they certainly understand that the media/societal construct of "women" is not very accurate. Most women (in my experience at least) understand the individual men that they know pretty well, but seem to buy in to the media/societal construct of men much more fully and willingly.

Has the free availability of internet pornography had any direct impact on sexual relationships between men and women?

I'm not sure how direct it is, but I think it's definitely had an impact. The entire industry of hair removal, and in particular waxing of the pubic area is driven by the standards of the porn industry - the removal of all female and most male body hair is a new cultural norm that has appeared only since porn became more widely available about 20 years ago, and has mushroomed in the last decade since it became ubiquitous through the web. It's got something to do with aesthetics, of course - all that time in the gym in search of a sculpted six pack is deemed to be wasted if your belly is still hairy (this comes from bodybuilding - another meme where appearance is everything).

Women's self-confidence wasn't historically linked quite so much as it is now to their bust size - how many times have you read about a female celebrity (or just a 'civilian') who reports feeling much more confident about themselves after a boob job? The surgery itself has been around since the 1950s, but it took the ubiquity of porn and it's creeping influence on the rest of popular culture (films, tv, advertising) to make it the first thing that working class women think of doing to themselves after a divorce or other relationship breakup. Prior to this 'Rise of Porn', women were certainly self-conscious about the size of their bust, but the cultural norm until about 2000 was to 'make the best of what you've got', ranging from the Playtex Cross Your Hearts bras of the 1960s up to and including the Wonderbras and Ultrabras of the 1990s. Now it seems the appearance of a woman's breasts when she isn't wearing a bra is more important.

Another thing - with cameraphones nearly ubiquitious these days, it's becoming quite common among teenagers and 18-25 year olds to send one another saucy pictures, and it's even something girls and young women think the objects of their affection expect of them. Compare that to the biggest shift in the porn industry since the advence of broadband speeds - the rise of "amateur porn", filmed on a webcam or cameraphone. The kids are just doing what they see, and they see a lot (because many of their parents either don't know how to stop them seeing it or don't care enough to try).

Hell, some of the biggest celebrities in the world today (Mostly American. And with out any other formal performing training or skills. And too many letter Ks in their names...) first penetrated *ahem* the public consciousness by making an amateur porn video, then pretending to be shocked that it got released, then licensing it and making millions from it. And - this is the real measure of the scope of how porn has changed things - the mainstream media reported on it not as a scandal that they did it in the first place, but as a scandal that the third party released what should remain private for public consumption. Like it was entirely normal and natural to film oneself having sex in the first place.*

*Please note I'm not even saying that it isn't normal or natural, but that there's a big cultural and generational gap opening up between (usually) older-than-35 people who think it isn't normal or natural, and (mostly) under-35s who think it is.

Please also note that the female 'celebrities' who have filmed themselves having sex and had it released have normally been unharmed by the public circulation of the film, usually because it's not them who first release it (or at least that's the story we get to see). At worst, their existing career isn't harmed (Amber Rose). At best, it creates (Kim K) or revives their career (Pamela Anderson).

Male celebrities caught on camera can hope that their career is undamaged as the best result. At worst, their career is badly damaged (Rob Lowe - though he's not a great example as one of his 'co-stars' was under age at the time).

QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Sep 12 2012, 12:51 PM) *
I'm sure we run in very different circles, but I'd caution anyone who thinks making porn and posting it on the worldwide web is a good idea. That would seem pretty obvious to me. It's there forever, and what seems cool at 18 can become a big deal in the future. No one likes to see their spouse/sigoth/mother/physician with a parade of ballsacks on her face. Longevity in relationships (and career advancement for that matter) and participation in porn don't seem to mix well. Go figure.


Right you are - it remains to be seen how the generation now in their teens and twenties will react to having shaky footage of themselves nude, and/or engaged in 'sex acts' freely available to anyone with the wit to type their name into a search engine. It could be that it becomes completely normal, like being photographed in a swimsuit at the beach. It could be something not quite approved of, but forgiveable in the scheme of things, like trying dope at college. Or it could have lasting damage.

My hunch is it'll be like dope-smoking or binge-drinking; something that's ok to try a few times when you're young enough not to know better (and have all the aesthetic benefits of youth), but something most people find a little odd and untrustworthy in grown men and women, especially in positions of authority.
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CruisingRam
post Sep 13 2012, 10:25 AM
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QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Sep 12 2012, 05:41 AM) *
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 12 2012, 08:36 AM) *
QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Sep 12 2012, 03:51 AM) *
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 12 2012, 06:40 AM) *
It should be noted that there is a HUGE generational gap here- most folks responding her are over 40, at least. Porn and such are no big deal to the younger generation, and make no bones about viewing it or making it. Sex is not such a big deal, unless they are not getting enough of it I suppose. thumbsup.gif Women are far, far more aggressive and in charge of making thier needs known these days.


I'm sure we run in very different circles, but I'd caution anyone who thinks making porn and posting it on the worldwide web is a good idea. That would seem pretty obvious to me. It's there forever, and what seems cool at 18 can become a big deal in the future. No one likes to see their spouse/sigoth/mother/physician with a parade of ballsacks on her face. Longevity in relationships (and career advancement for that matter) and participation in porn don't seem to mix well. Go figure.


Not disagreeing with you in the least. Have a daughter myself, I believe you have all sons. Wouldn't want either to be featured prominantly in a porn vid. ohmy.gif


Why would this bother you?

If this new generation is so much more comparatively cosmopolitan, and "sex is not such a big deal", women being so aggressive, and all that. Shouldn't you be happy if she were so free of all that "sex is a big deal" baggage?

Yes, I have only sons. Thank God.


Not saying that I am free from all that- remember, I am old too. thumbsup.gif ohmy.gif

You are taking my statements on the behavior as others to be an endorsement of those behaviors- I assure you they are not. thumbsup.gif

I am not sure if the new attitudes regarding sex are any more or less healthy than the ones I grew up with- which were horribly homophobic and oppressive to both sexes as well. Some balance would be nice I suppose?

"Mature" Amatuer porn is a very popular porn genre- don't want to see granny doing porn either Mrs P w00t.gif devil.gif - but apparently, there are plenty of grannies willing to do it for free and post themselves on teh internets! (time for the therapy to begin, as the mental visual comes into play) whistling.gif

This post has been edited by CruisingRam: Sep 13 2012, 10:26 AM
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droop224
post Sep 13 2012, 11:34 AM
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come now CR mature porn and granny porn are two different things.

To me the only thing about sex that has changed is the ease of access to porn. Which really isn't that relevant.

The same rules apply, so let's not think the younger generation has it any better or worse.

Sex is a man's domain. Men have sex to have, it's viewed as a good thing. Women have sex just for sex it's viewed as a bad thing.

Here is the funny thing about that, men have been blamed for this, but it is not our fault at all. Women don't relate to other women with promiscious attitudes. Obviously, because it isn't natural. That hasn't changed. A young boy brings out his video phone and tells his young girl let me make a video of us. 90 % of the time just like sex itself the motives will be different. He is having sex for him, she is having sex for him as well. He is making a video for him, she is making a video for him as well.
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CruisingRam
post Sep 13 2012, 12:23 PM
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QUOTE(droop224 @ Sep 13 2012, 03:34 AM) *
come now CR mature porn and granny porn are two different things.


Sex is a man's domain. Men have sex to have, it's viewed as a good thing. Women have sex just for sex it's viewed as a bad thing.

Here is the funny thing about that, men have been blamed for this, but it is not our fault at all. Women don't relate to other women with promiscious attitudes. Obviously, because it isn't natural. That hasn't changed. A young boy brings out his video phone and tells his young girl let me make a video of us. 90 % of the time just like sex itself the motives will be different. He is having sex for him, she is having sex for him as well. He is making a video for him, she is making a video for him as well.



I agree in regards to my generation, but I don't think so in the 20 somethings today. She is having sex for her, and her gratification and such are for her- not just for him. I agree with what you say even as recent as the 90s.

How long has it been since you been in the dating scene? I have been back in it now for a few months. Not the same as it once was, believe me! Women are down right predatory in thier needs these days- not saying it is always a bad thing. devil.gif

I am 47 years old, and totally shocked out of my skin every time I do the mating dance these days (usually pleasantly so) thumbsup.gif . Women are now as much the aggressors than, well, ever in my memory. Especially the 20 somethings. I hear women talking about being promiscuous as easily as I heard boys talking about it clear back in my junior high days- except back then, we were lying. devil.gif

Women will ask you point blank for some sex these days. Shocks my puritan heart when I hear it. They will talk of thier conquests just like a man would in the 1950s. Welcome to the 21rst century my friend! thumbsup.gif

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Mrs. Pigpen
post Sep 13 2012, 02:52 PM
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QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Sep 13 2012, 08:23 AM) *
QUOTE(droop224 @ Sep 13 2012, 03:34 AM) *
come now CR mature porn and granny porn are two different things.


Sex is a man's domain. Men have sex to have, it's viewed as a good thing. Women have sex just for sex it's viewed as a bad thing.

Here is the funny thing about that, men have been blamed for this, but it is not our fault at all. Women don't relate to other women with promiscious attitudes. Obviously, because it isn't natural. That hasn't changed. A young boy brings out his video phone and tells his young girl let me make a video of us. 90 % of the time just like sex itself the motives will be different. He is having sex for him, she is having sex for him as well. He is making a video for him, she is making a video for him as well.



I agree in regards to my generation, but I don't think so in the 20 somethings today. She is having sex for her, and her gratification and such are for her- not just for him. I agree with what you say even as recent as the 90s.

How long has it been since you been in the dating scene? I have been back in it now for a few months. Not the same as it once was, believe me! Women are down right predatory in thier needs these days- not saying it is always a bad thing. devil.gif

I am 47 years old, and totally shocked out of my skin every time I do the mating dance these days (usually pleasantly so) thumbsup.gif . Women are now as much the aggressors than, well, ever in my memory. Especially the 20 somethings. I hear women talking about being promiscuous as easily as I heard boys talking about it clear back in my junior high days- except back then, we were lying. devil.gif

Women will ask you point blank for some sex these days. Shocks my puritan heart when I hear it. They will talk of thier conquests just like a man would in the 1950s. Welcome to the 21rst century my friend! thumbsup.gif


Well, let me be the first to say thankyou for your time. Sounds like you are turning down women left and right who are literally throwing themselves at you, to be here chatting with us. You must be very tired.

It's not like there have ever existed loose promiscuous women on the planet before (or men who have spoken about them). This is something entirely new, unknown until you have made this revelation (shhh don't tell the prostitutes they've lost their entire market and won't be able to buy crack, or whatever...also bad news for strip clubs. Guess they haven't heard yet).

This post has been edited by Mrs. Pigpen: Sep 13 2012, 02:59 PM
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CruisingRam
post Sep 13 2012, 03:53 PM
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Uh, no Mrs P, just saying the tone of the conversation has changed, and so has the game. I wish I were a playa like you say, but I am not, just an observer from the sidelines. blush.gif

And I do wonder if there is some lost biz for the ladies of the women- hard to sell something that is being given away for free- I am just saying that we are seeing true equality in the sex-dating game. Women can and will be promiscious as men these days, unlike when I was a teenager.

If anything the conversation-debate about sex has made it harder than ever to enter into a serious relationship.
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