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> Occupy Wall Street Protests, Coming to someplace near you soon
AuthorMusician
post Oct 5 2011, 08:26 PM
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At first ignored by the press to a large extent, Occupy Wall Street protests have gone nationwide.

Close to me in Colorado Springs

Debate questions:

Who is behind the Occupy Wall Street protests?

What are the issues that the protesters want addressed?

How realistic are the protesters' demands?

What impacts are modern communication technologies having on the protests?

Are there any protests going on near where you hang out?
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akaCG
post Oct 5 2011, 09:56 PM
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Who is behind the Occupy Wall Street protests?

The usual anarchist, socialist, lefty "herd of cats", with a large and fast growing assist from SEIU and other unions.

What are the issues that the protesters want addressed?

The usual hodge-podge of anarchist, socialist, lefty, and union stuff. Looking forward to Hoffa Jr. showing up.

How realistic are the protesters' demands?

They'd have to clarify what they want before this can be answered.

What impacts are modern communication technologies having on the protests?

Quite a lot of high-profit capitalist-produced IPods, IPads, cell phones, and other tech floating around.

Are there any protests going on near where you hang out?

Nah.



EDITED TO ADD:

QUOTE
...
The teenage moralism of the Occupy Wall Street hipsters almost makes me ashamed to be Left-wing

Occupy Wall Street, the gathering of angry actors, graphic designers and various other hipsters in the financial districts of New York City, might just be the most degenerate Left-wing movement of recent times. Its weird demands, plastered across tongue-in-cheek placards and on super-cool, self-pressed t- shirts, capture the descent of the modern Left into the cesspool of victimology, conspiracy-mongering and disdain for mass society and its allegedly dumb inhabitants. Far from representing anything that I, a Leftie, would recognise as progressive and humane, this gaggle of rich kids spouts little more than snobbery and fear, seemingly incapable of deciding whom they loathe the most: greedy fat bankers or the dumb fat public.
...
Forget analyses of society or programmes for change – these occupiers just want to get their rocks off by pointing a collective finger at billionaires while screaming “Waaaah!”. It’s more like a two-minute hate than a principled campaign, more a tantrum than a protest, the aim of which is to assuage the inchoate moralistic fury of the sons and daughters of the East Coast bourgeoisie who look at mass America and its inhabitants and feel nothing but pity and disgust. These campaigners are nothing like workers’ movements of old, which brought together principled men and women in a campaign for change; instead they have merely elevated the teenage screech of “I hate you and I wish you were dead!” into a political rallying cry. No wonder the vast majority of Americans are blocking their ears.
...

Link: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendano...o-be-left-wing/
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London2LA
post Oct 5 2011, 11:18 PM
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Who is behind the Occupy Wall Street protests?

Unlike the Tea Party, this is not organized by some behind-the-scenes special interest PAC, in fact there are Tea Partiers taking part in the protest along with mainstream Americans, plus the groups that AkaCG refers to. Like the Egyptian and Libyan protests these are disparate groups with different views and agendas but who agree on a common enemy.

What are the issues that the protesters want addressed?

Basically the huge disparity in power and influence of the top 1%, they feel that democracy has been hijacked by this group and that the pace with which everything is moving upward and away from the middle class is out of control.

How realistic are the protesters' demands?

They've made no demands. They just want to get the attention of the people in power, the President and Congress included.

What impacts are modern communication technologies having on the protests?

Like the Arab spring protests, they are organized via Twitter, Facebook etc. Just download Tweetdeck and setup a search on #occupy to listen in.

Are there any protests going on near where you hang out?

Yes, and increasing in size in Los Angeles.
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Bikerdad
post Oct 6 2011, 03:10 AM
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Debate questions:

Who is behind the Occupy Wall Street protests?
Astro-turf Lefties.

What are the issues that the protesters want addressed?
They want jobs. Everything else is just window dressing. If they had jobs, they wouldn't be out there.

How realistic are the protesters' demands?
Not very (see, I can do understatement laugh.gif ). Hopefully a few of them will be smart enough to turn entrepeneur and start providing goods and services to their fellow protesters.

What impacts are modern communication technologies having on the protests?
Compared to what? I would venture that on the whole, modern communication technologies are going to work against this particular protest movement. The MSM is going to be supportive on the whole, but the New Media is going to be much more objective (overall), so both the good and bad side of the movement will be seen.

Are there any protests going on near where you hang out? No, such protests would be HIGHLY unlikely hereabouts. Low unemployment and a strong emphasis on personal responsibility and family relationships doesn't leave a lot of room for leftie sentiments.
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TedN5
post Oct 6 2011, 03:42 AM
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Here is the first official statement from the demonstrators. I'm not sure what course the protest will take in the future but as of now they have my support!

QUOTE
As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.

As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.

<snip>

They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.

They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.

<snip>

They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless nonhuman animals, and actively hide these practices.

They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
<snip>


This post has been edited by Jaime: Oct 6 2011, 04:09 AM
Reason for edit: Edited to conform cited material to forum rules
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CruisingRam
post Oct 6 2011, 05:23 AM
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EDIT

Who is behind the Occupy Wall Street protests?

Pretty diverse, mostly informed folks that have a wide range of beefs with those that have been the driving force behind the disintegration of American society.

What are the issues that the protesters want addressed?

A variety of issues as posted by Tedn5, but the most important part is that they realize that the real problem in America, most of the reasons for most of the problems in America, stem from corporate America and Wall street.


What impacts are modern communication technologies having on the protests?


Well, considering that these protestors think for themselves instead of following Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh. Modern communication technologies are the driving force behind most of the revolutions today. Decentralized and hard to circumvent.


How realistic are the protesters' demands?


They aren't centralized enough to be called demands yet- too new. Mostly, they are coalescing and communicating the fact that the real threat to America is corporate America. They don't create jobs or make our lives better- they stifle innovation, and send jobs elsewhere.

Wait until the movement becomes bigger, and powerful enough to get to Muslim spring numbers, and then there will be more specific demands I think


Are there any protests going on near where you hang out?


Honolulu will be pretty big with them soon. some major conferences coming up soon.

This post has been edited by Jaime: Oct 6 2011, 12:21 PM
Reason for edit: Edited to remove flame-bait.
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AuthorMusician
post Oct 6 2011, 04:03 PM
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QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Oct 6 2011, 01:23 AM) *
EDIT

Who is behind the Occupy Wall Street protests?

Pretty diverse, mostly informed folks that have a wide range of beefs with those that have been the driving force behind the disintegration of American society.

What are the issues that the protesters want addressed?

A variety of issues as posted by Tedn5, but the most important part is that they realize that the real problem in America, most of the reasons for most of the problems in America, stem from corporate America and Wall street.


What impacts are modern communication technologies having on the protests?


Well, considering that these protestors think for themselves instead of following Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh. Modern communication technologies are the driving force behind most of the revolutions today. Decentralized and hard to circumvent.


How realistic are the protesters' demands?


They aren't centralized enough to be called demands yet- too new. Mostly, they are coalescing and communicating the fact that the real threat to America is corporate America. They don't create jobs or make our lives better- they stifle innovation, and send jobs elsewhere.

Wait until the movement becomes bigger, and powerful enough to get to Muslim spring numbers, and then there will be more specific demands I think


Are there any protests going on near where you hang out?


Honolulu will be pretty big with them soon. some major conferences coming up soon.


This pretty much sums up my take on it all right now. However, Rachel Maddow had an interesting parallel to make between the Occupy Wall Street (OWS) protests and the desire to tax those making over one million USD taxable income more, which under President Obama's plan would fund his jobs bill (dubbed the Buffet Policy):

Oddly enough, both the rich and the TEA types support higher taxes on the rich

I have a proposal for an OWS chant: Muck a Duck; Duck a Muck; We're all tired of getting PH***ED!

Eh, maybe not. The commonality does seem to be the shenanigans that have gone on in Wall Street, among corporations and in DC. The protests are dovetailing with the Buffet Policy of taxing the rich more, and the poll numbers are all on the side of the Buffet Policy.

Other things being sucked into the overall OWS protests involve corporations running our government and determining our elections, which is tightly coupled with the destruction of campaign finance laws brought on by a SCOTUS decision.

Seems that Democratic strategists are floating the idea of calling Republican policy against taxing the rich the Romney Policy. That would likely include the idea that corporations are people too. I would very much like to see a counter OWS protest put on by those corporations that are people too. No representatives or surrogates allowed. Mascots are okay, but the CEOs have to wear the costumes with coordinated tights and dance around to the tune of Money for Nothing (I want my, I want my, I want my Occ-U-Py).

This post has been edited by AuthorMusician: Oct 6 2011, 04:05 PM
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Paladin Elspeth
post Oct 6 2011, 04:46 PM
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Wow--talk about dismissiveness.

I have been watching Countdown with Keith Olbermann on CURRENT TV. He is devoting a lot of time to cover the continuing Wall Street demonstrations. If any poster is actually interested in knowing what the protests are about rather than contenting himself with dismissive pronouncements from the likes of FOX "News" pundits, s/he is welcome to link to this:

http://current.com/countdown-with-keith-olbermann/

Last night Olbermann read a statement from the group demonstrating that should provide some clarification.

Jon Stewart also provided some insight on the Occupy Wall Street demonstrators:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-octo...d-demonstration

Wall Street and the banks have not helped but have provided additional problems during this recession. Those who try to attribute these problems exclusively to the current administration are doing it for the gain of their political party or ideology. I think it is no coincidence that the most strident critics of this movement appear to be the same people who are relatively well-off and whose jobs are not in immediate jeopardy.

The tired old retort--"Get a job!"--was far more effective when there were actually JOBS TO BE HAD.

Good for the demonstrators, in New York City and elsewhere around the country, and the world. Those who wear the label "Capitalist" need to loosen their death grip on the world's wealth and make allowances for the "99 percent" who also have a right to live, and work, and eat, and be educated, and have somewhere safe and warm to live. One way they can do so is to pay their fair share of taxes right in America.

(Incidentally, some of these demonstrators are members of the Tea Party.)

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pheeler
post Oct 6 2011, 06:13 PM
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QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 5 2011, 01:56 PM) *
Who is behind the Occupy Wall Street protests?

The usual anarchist, socialist, lefty "herd of cats", with a large and fast growing assist from SEIU and other unions.

What are the issues that the protesters want addressed?

The usual hodge-podge of anarchist, socialist, lefty, and union stuff. Looking forward to Hoffa Jr. showing up.

How realistic are the protesters' demands?

They'd have to clarify what they want before this can be answered.

What impacts are modern communication technologies having on the protests?

Quite a lot of high-profit capitalist-produced IPods, IPads, cell phones, and other tech floating around.

Are there any protests going on near where you hang out?

Nah.

When I first heard about the Tea Party, these are exactly what my thoughts were (just substitute some nouns). Then I got over myself a little bit. The Tea Party is far from perfect, but the sentiment is exactly the same as OWS's, and it's no surprise some Tea Partiers are part of OWS.

OWS seems to be in its infancy, and no clear message has appeared yet. However, at less than one month old they are at a turning point where they have people's attention, so they better figure out what they are asking for. So far, I'm not impressed with what I've seen from them.

From the OWS website
QUOTE
We the 99% will not be silent and we will not be intimidated. This Saturday thousands more of us will march together as one to show that it is time that the 99% are heard. Join us on the 2nd week anniversary of your new movement.

This is a call for individuals, families and community and advocacy groups to march in solidarity with the #occupywallstreet movement on Saturday, October 1st at 3 p.m.

We are unions, students, teachers, veterans, first responders, families, the unemployed and underemployed. We are all races, sexes and creeds. We are the majority. We are the 99 percent. And we will no longer be silent.

As members of the 99 percent, we occupy Wall Street as a symbolic gesture of our discontent with the current economic and political climate and as an example of a better world to come.

Sounds like akaCG's linked blogger has a point. So far, it's just "We're angry, grrr!"

Today's post came with a little more direction:

QUOTE
The American Dream has been stolen from the world. Workers are told that they aren't allowed health care, shelter, food. Students are told that they aren't allowed jobs, and that they will be in debt for the rest of their lives, unable to declare bankruptcy. The 1% has destroyed this nation and its values through their greed. The 1% has stolen this world. We will not allow this to occur.

Workers aren't allowed healthcare... I guess that was true if they had a pre-existing condition until the PPACA passed. They are certainly allowed to have healthcare now. Shelter, food? What? Who isn't allowed to eat?

Students aren't allowed jobs... There we have one of the worst problems with this generation. Entitlement. I went to college so I deserve a job. College cost me a lot of money so someone needs to pay me back for it. Garbage.

The 1% have destroyed the nation? Sorry, I don't buy the conspiracy garbage these kids are spewing. As a progressive, I'm almost as appalled as O'Neill.

OWS still has potential to become a legitimate movement, but some better leaders need to step up, quick.
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akaCG
post Oct 6 2011, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Oct 6 2011, 12:46 PM) *
...
(Incidentally, some of these demonstrators are members of the Tea Party.)

A particular type thereof, like this guy:
QUOTE
...
"What I’m doing out here is showing support. I’m taxed damn near to death, from property tax to income tax to security tax, it’s tax, tax, tax, tax," he said.

DeMatteis’s main concern, however, is with the Federal Reserve.

"The real grass roots of 'Occupy Wall Street' is to end the Federal Reserve, get them out of our Treasury, get us out of the fiat currency, and go back to what our constitution says, a gold and silver standard," he said.
...
Currently, DeMatteis is having a special at his pizzeria where customers can buy a 75-cent slice of pizza, but there’s a catch: They must pay with coins that are pre-1964 because they are 90 percent silver.

"What I’m trying to do is raise awareness that you know our currency is not worth anything and that it is at the brink of collapse," he said. "We cannot keep on printing money."ť
...

Link: http://www.cnbc.com/id/44763090?slide=2

I wonder if he realizes that, if the OWS kiddies who issued this list of demands were to even partly get their way, he and his family would get taxed, taxed, taxed, taxed out of hearth, home, and business altogether. After all, someone would have to pay for all that "free" stuff. And there just ain't enough "millionaires and billionaires" to cover.

We live in interesting times.



This post has been edited by akaCG: Oct 6 2011, 07:36 PM
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Paladin Elspeth
post Oct 6 2011, 07:42 PM
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QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 6 2011, 03:21 PM) *
QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Oct 6 2011, 12:46 PM) *
...
(Incidentally, some of these demonstrators are members of the Tea Party.)

A particular type thereof, like this guy:
QUOTE
...
"What I’m doing out here is showing support. I’m taxed damn near to death, from property tax to income tax to security tax, it’s tax, tax, tax, tax," he said.

DeMatteis’s main concern, however, is with the Federal Reserve.

"The real grass roots of 'Occupy Wall Street' is to end the Federal Reserve, get them out of our Treasury, get us out of the fiat currency, and go back to what our constitution says, a gold and silver standard," he said.
...
Currently, DeMatteis is having a special at his pizzeria where customers can buy a 75-cent slice of pizza, but there’s a catch: They must pay with coins that are pre-1964 because they are 90 percent silver.

"What I’m trying to do is raise awareness that you know our currency is not worth anything and that it is at the brink of collapse," he said. "We cannot keep on printing money."ť
...

Link: http://www.cnbc.com/id/44763090?slide=2

I wonder if he realizes that, if the OWS kiddies who issued this list of demands were to even partly get their way, he and his family would get taxed, taxed, taxed, taxed out of hearth, home, and business altogether. After all, someone would have to pay for all that "free" stuff. And there just ain't enough "millionaires and billionaires" to cover.

We live in interesting times.

So, you're going to characterize all of "them" based on what one person said? Wow. Should I characterize all derivatives traders based on what you say?

And did you listen to the statement made by the "General Assembly" demonstrators that Keith Olbermann read on the link I cited in my previous post? I recall NOTHING about $20 dollar per hour wages. If you are depending upon blogs to get your information and form your opinions, that says a lot, doesn't it?

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pheeler
post Oct 6 2011, 07:43 PM
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QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 6 2011, 11:21 AM) *
I wonder if he realizes that, if the OWS kiddies who issued <a href="http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/occupy-wall-street-protesters-demand-20year-minimum-wage-universal-debt-forgiveness/%5b/url" target="_blank"> were to even partly get their way, he and his family would get taxed, taxed, taxed, taxed out of hearth, home, and business altogether. After all, someone would have to pay for all that "free" stuff. And there just ain't enough "millionaires and billionaires" to cover.

That list of demands is both unreasonable and not officially from OWS. It was posted on the website's forum by a user, and an admin added the caveat that it is not officially endorsed. If they do endorse it, it will be the end of the movement.

It does exemplify the brainlessness of some of the supporters. Better heads need to start prevailing, like the poster of this comment on the OWS forum. Or this one.

This post has been edited by pheeler: Oct 6 2011, 07:51 PM
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akaCG
post Oct 6 2011, 08:04 PM
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QUOTE(pheeler @ Oct 6 2011, 03:43 PM) *
QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 6 2011, 11:21 AM) *
I wonder if he realizes that, if the OWS kiddies who issued <a href="http://sayanythingblog.com/entry/occupy-wall-street-protesters-demand-20year-minimum-wage-universal-debt-forgiveness/%5b/url" target="_blank"> were to even partly get their way, he and his family would get taxed, taxed, taxed, taxed out of hearth, home, and business altogether. After all, someone would have to pay for all that "free" stuff. And there just ain't enough "millionaires and billionaires" to cover.

That list of demands is both unreasonable and not officially from OWS. It was posted on the website's forum by a user, and an admin added the caveat that it is not officially endorsed. If they do endorse it, it will be the end of the movement.
...

Aah. That does make a difference. Thank you for the "user" vs. "admin" clarification.

And yes, that would spell the end. And swiftly. Essentially, they would then become the 1% that the other 99% of Americans would reject.

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pheeler
post Oct 6 2011, 08:21 PM
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Here's an interesting idea from an OWS forum user:

QUOTE
Even though we have a huge diversity of opinions and ideas on this forum, I think almost everyone agrees that corporations (and their undue influence on our government) are a huge part of the problem.

Corporations used to have to come before Congress to renew their charters periodically. They had to show Congress that their existence was contributing to society in a positive way. Their charter to operate could be revoked at any time if they were not acting responsibly.

States also had a great deal of regulatory power over corporations.

When the government realized they could make more revenue by doing away with charter renewal (and probably contributions helped sway their opinion as well), they started loosening up requirements for corporations.

Perhaps we should consider this approach in dealing with corporations.

Isn't corporate interest getting in the way of effect policy something both the left and right can agree on? Charter renewal seems like something that was pretty important to policymakers when they made incorporation possible. It seems like a reasonable exchange for the kind of protections they get.

Even if this isn't feasible, it gets to the heart of one of the problems OWS could affect in a productive way. Corporations have a disproportionate amount of power with way to little accountability.


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CruisingRam
post Oct 6 2011, 08:36 PM
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I agree Pheeler- the corporate influence of politics is one area both right and left can agree on. It may be the best strategic movement the OWS can latch on to to make this very, very successful. If they can unit under this banner, the other issues can be worked out.

Taking away corporate person hood to allow real campaign finance reform to take place, and access to politicians to be heavily scrutinized.
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pheeler
post Oct 6 2011, 08:54 PM
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I have to say, the OWS forum is one of the liveliest I've ever seen (and I used to troll WoW forums).

Here's another level-headed post that I mostly agree with.

QUOTE
Please consider these demands and never stop researching. Thank you.

1. End the Fractional Reserve Banking System.

I don't know what this is, I guess I have some research to do.

QUOTE
2. End the Federal Reserve.

This is something the TEA partiers want too?

QUOTE
3. Stop immense government spending. The “inflation tax” is going to keep increasing which is slowly going to obliterate the middle class.

Can I get a Amen!?

QUOTE
4. Return to the Gold Standard so our money can be actually worth something.

Is this feasible? I've heard this proposed before, but I'm not much of an economic expert.

QUOTE
5. End the wars in Iraq and Afganistan; only enter wars legally through congress; This will help avoid the hazards of the Military Industrial Complex.

Yeah, I think this is defensible.

QUOTE
6. End the War on Drugs.

Yes please.

QUOTE
7. End the Corporate and Banking bailouts, forever.

How about we add corporate tax breaks and other loopholes? Alternatively, get rid of corporate taxes and make up for it in income taxes.

QUOTE
8. End corporate donations to politicians; the politicians are suppose to be there for the people, not corporate entities.

I do agree with this. People should be free to donate to campaigns, but not corporations.

QUOTE
9. End dependency on energy that damages the planet; push clean and renewable energy sources.

The wheels are moving on this already, maybe slowly but still, we are rolling.
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akaCG
post Oct 6 2011, 10:28 PM
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QUOTE(pheeler @ Oct 6 2011, 04:54 PM) *
I have to say, the OWS forum is one of the liveliest I've ever seen (and I used to troll WoW forums).

Here's another level-headed post that I mostly agree with.

QUOTE
Please consider these demands and never stop researching. Thank you.

1. End the Fractional Reserve Banking System.

I don't know what this is, I guess I have some research to do.
...

At its most basic, it means that when you deposit your next $100,000 check into your bank account, your bank is only required to keep a fraction of it in its "vault" reserve. Say, one tenth, $10,000. The rest, $90,000, the bank is permitted to lend to, say, an enterprising young lady who wants to start a hair salon business with, say, 3 employees.

I'll leave to it to you to imagine the effects that doing away with fractional reserve banking would have on, say, jobs.

QUOTE(pheeler @ Oct 6 2011, 04:54 PM) *
...
QUOTE
2. End the Federal Reserve.

This is something the TEA partiers want too?
...

Rand Paul followers, pretty much.

QUOTE(pheeler @ Oct 6 2011, 04:54 PM) *
...
QUOTE
3. Stop immense government spending. The “inflation tax” is going to keep increasing which is slowly going to obliterate the middle class.

Can I get a Amen!?
...

Yup. You'll get an "Amen" from about 99.999% of Tea Partiers on that one. From 99% of the OWS crowd, however? Not so much.

QUOTE(pheeler @ Oct 6 2011, 04:54 PM) *
...
QUOTE
4. Return to the Gold Standard so our money can be actually worth something.

Is this feasible? I've heard this proposed before, but I'm not much of an economic expert.
...

More Rand Paul follower stuff, pretty much.

QUOTE(pheeler @ Oct 6 2011, 04:54 PM) *
...
QUOTE
5. End the wars in Iraq and Afganistan; only enter wars legally through congress; This will help avoid the hazards of the Military Industrial Complex.

Yeah, I think this is defensible.
...

Yup. There would be a very large amount of overlap on this between the OWSers and the Tea Partiers.

QUOTE(pheeler @ Oct 6 2011, 04:54 PM) *
...
QUOTE
6. End the War on Drugs.

Yes please.
...

Beyond the Rand Paul segment, enthusiasm for this among Tea Partiers is tepid.


QUOTE(pheeler @ Oct 6 2011, 04:54 PM) *
...
QUOTE
7. End the Corporate and Banking bailouts, forever.

How about we add corporate tax breaks and other loopholes? Alternatively, get rid of corporate taxes and make up for it in income taxes.
...

Depending on the particular details, the overlap with Tea Partiers ranges from about 75% to 100%.


QUOTE(pheeler @ Oct 6 2011, 04:54 PM) *
...
QUOTE
8. End corporate donations to politicians; the politicians are suppose to be there for the people, not corporate entities.

I do agree with this. People should be free to donate to campaigns, but not corporations.
...

Apple Inc. can't donate, but the SEIU can? Heh. Not a chance.

QUOTE(pheeler @ Oct 6 2011, 04:54 PM) *
...
QUOTE
9. End dependency on energy that damages the planet; push clean and renewable energy sources.

The wheels are moving on this already, maybe slowly but still, we are rolling.

The OWSers would be well advised to put this one on hold. Priorities. This one ain't gonna have much "traction" until the unemployment rate goes down to, say, where it was when Al Gore won his Nobel Peace Prize (about 5%).

ps:
QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Oct 6 2011, 03:42 PM) *
...
... Should I characterize all derivatives traders based on what you say?
...

Oh, how I wish you could! Alas, most of them, especially the big ones (like this and this), are in the Dem camp.



This post has been edited by akaCG: Oct 6 2011, 10:49 PM
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pheeler
post Oct 6 2011, 11:52 PM
Post #18


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QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 6 2011, 02:28 PM) *
QUOTE(pheeler)
QUOTE
8. End corporate donations to politicians; the politicians are suppose to be there for the people, not corporate entities.

I do agree with this. People should be free to donate to campaigns, but not corporations.


Apple Inc. can't donate, but the SEIU can? Heh. Not a chance.

SEIU shouldn't be able to either. Individual donations only.

And as for the fractional banking reserve, I agree that eliminating it entirely would be idiotic, but maybe increase the margin they have to hold in reserve? I was aware of this, just didn't know what that phrase meant. You mentioned 90/10, isn't it more like only 1% they have to hold in reserve?

This post has been edited by pheeler: Oct 6 2011, 11:55 PM
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post Oct 7 2011, 12:02 AM
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QUOTE(pheeler @ Oct 6 2011, 07:52 PM) *
QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 6 2011, 02:28 PM) *
QUOTE(pheeler)
QUOTE
8. End corporate donations to politicians; the politicians are suppose to be there for the people, not corporate entities.

I do agree with this. People should be free to donate to campaigns, but not corporations.


Apple Inc. can't donate, but the SEIU can? Heh. Not a chance.

SEIU shouldn't be able to either. Individual donations only.

Your chances of being warmly embraced by 99% of the OWSers (especially now that Big Labor is getting involved) just plunged to about ... 1%.

Despair not, however, because ...

On the other hand, your chances of being warmly embraced by 99% of the Tea Partiers just soared to about ... 50%.

biggrin.gif

Politics1. Ain't it fun?

1"Politics is the art of the possible." --- Otto von Bismarck

NOTE: above bolding mine.

EDITED TO ADD:

QUOTE
...
10/04/2011
The Absurdity of the Anti-Corporation Movement

I forced my Corporate Governance class to sit through excerpts of the execrable documentary The Corporation yesterday so that they could see for themselves the absurdity of the anti-corporation movement. Doing so was quite timely, because we're hearing the same sort of silliness from the Occupy Wall Street crowd ...
...

The rest: http://www.professorbainbridge.com/profess...n-movement.html



This post has been edited by akaCG: Oct 7 2011, 02:19 AM
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pheeler
post Oct 7 2011, 05:47 AM
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QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 6 2011, 04:02 PM) *
QUOTE(pheeler @ Oct 6 2011, 07:52 PM) *
QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 6 2011, 02:28 PM) *
QUOTE(pheeler)
QUOTE
8. End corporate donations to politicians; the politicians are suppose to be there for the people, not corporate entities.

I do agree with this. People should be free to donate to campaigns, but not corporations.


Apple Inc. can't donate, but the SEIU can? Heh. Not a chance.

SEIU shouldn't be able to either. Individual donations only.

Your chances of being warmly embraced by 99% of the OWSers (especially now that Big Labor is getting involved) just plunged to about ... 1%.

You keep making these claims, I don't think you've spent any time reading the posts on the OWS website. There are a lot of people who are wary of all this support from the unions, worried that they are going to co-opt the movement the way the Republicans did to the Tea Party.

Just because labor unions are trying to get in on this movement doesn't mean they're going to succeed. The most cogent message I've gathered from the posts and comments is that OWS is not about advancing the liberal agenda, despite the fact that its public supporters are so far all liberal groups. There's a healthy dose of anger at Obama for the bailouts and the leniency with which he treated the banks after the financial crisis. The movement is supposed to be about the 99%, not the 49%, so they are trying their best not to alienate conservatives. Amidst the drone of the socialist/Marxist drivel, there are emerging some fairly reasoned arguments for how to fix the system that both sides should agree is broken, namely election and tax reform.
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