logo 
spacer
  

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

If you have an opinion, you should share it! Register Now!

America's Debate hosts the best in news, government, and political debate. Register now to take part in the most civil and constructive debate on the Internet. Join the community, and get ready to be challenged!

Click here to start

> Sponsored Links

Register to remove these ads!
> Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear, Did you go? Did you watch? Your opinion?
entspeak
post Oct 31 2010, 03:09 PM
Post #1


**********
Mammal

Sponsor
May 2007

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 6,225
Member No.: 2,568
Joined: March-4-04

From: New York, NY
Gender: Male
Politics: Independent
Party affiliation: None



The Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear was held on a section of the National Mall on Saturday.

Did you go and, if not, did you watch?

What were your impressions?

What are your thoughts on Stewart's "Moment of Sincerity" monologue?

This post has been edited by entspeak: Oct 31 2010, 03:55 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Start new topic
Replies (1 - 19)
Paladin Elspeth
post Nov 1 2010, 09:30 AM
Post #2


*********
I want the 10th Doctor for President!

Sponsor
August 1, 2003

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 4,987
Member No.: 721
Joined: May-10-03

From: Between 2 Great Lakes
Gender: Female
Politics: Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



Did you go and, if not, did you watch?

Curmudgeon and I attended. We could either watch it or attend it. We could not see the stage; we were in the center of the Mall. But we did listen.

What were your impressions?

I had never been in such a large crowd in my life. It was estimated at 200,000 to 215,000. (To get a comparison, Glenn Beck's rally was estimated at about 87,000.)

It was attended by courteous people. Considering how many were in attendance there, I found it amazing. There was a good feeling. After reading the remarks on the link, I have to agree that both Stewart and Colbert have been funnier on their show. Their serious remarks were more important to my mind.

What are your thoughts on Stewart's "Moment of Sincerity" monologue?

Stewart said what needed to be said. So much divisiveness during an election cycle where we face so many serious problems makes matters worse. We all need to cool it and recognize that although we disagree, we Americans need to respect each other, start working with each other again, and stop awfulizing so much.

I was glad we went, although I personally felt anxious about driving through Washington D.C.'s streets, the fact that there was NO parking anywhere to be seen, and the sheer numbers of people. It was worth it, though.

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Nov 1 2010, 09:31 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
entspeak
post Nov 1 2010, 10:35 AM
Post #3


**********
Mammal

Sponsor
May 2007

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 6,225
Member No.: 2,568
Joined: March-4-04

From: New York, NY
Gender: Male
Politics: Independent
Party affiliation: None



Did you go and, if not, did you watch?
I also attended. I was one of the 10,000 people who took the 200 free buses provided by The Huffington Post from Citi Field in NYC. Having left my apartment at 3:30 am, I got to Citi Field at 4:45am. Oddly, and thankfully, enough there were only a couple hundred people there at the time. We ended up getting on the 3rd bus to leave, myself and my 3 friends being able to sit together near the front of the bus. Surprisingly smooth. Arriving at RFK Stadium at 11am, we opted to walk to the Rally rather than take the Metro. We thought, and rightly so, that, since every Sanity bus (Huffington Post or no) was dropping people off at RFK and with waiting in line to get a ticket and waiting for a train, it would probably take longer to take the Metro. We got to the rally 45 minutes later and proceeded to attempt to locate our friends who were trying to save a spot for us. Once at the rally, cell service was virtually non-existent, so using our last directions, we tried, unsuccessfully, to find them. We decided to stay where we were once Roots began playing to open the show. We got pretty good spots near the corner of 4th and Madison... a block from the stage. I could, at least, see it... and being 6'7, I could see the massive crowd stretching foward to the stage and back toward the Washington Monument.

Here are a couple of panoramic photos I pieced together on my iPhone:

To the front.

To the back.

We left the rally as the Roots came back on to close the show, got back to RFK an hour later (again, walking), simply walked on to the first bus we saw that was getting ready to leave (no waiting) and left 10 minutes later. The bus driver was kind enough to make one stop at Port Authority in Manhattan before going to Citi Field, which saved many, including myself an hour commute back to roughly the same spot. I have to say, I'm thankful that Arianna Huffington was kind enough to provide free transportation - I wouldn't have been able to go otherwise - and I think HuffPo handled the massive crowd as best they could. I was fortunate (or, perhaps, better prepared) to be on one of the early buses. As was bound to happen when you're boarding 10,000 people for a 5 hour bus ride, some didn't arrive at the rally until it was over. On the way back, I heard someone mention that they got there just as Jon Stewart was thanking people for coming at the end... but nobody seemed bitter about it.

All in all, a good time.


What were your impressions?

I also agree with the article... in terms of the comedy, it was hit or miss... and not being able to hear sometimes in addition to not being able to see clearly what was happening on stage made some bits seem tedious. People behaved very well - only a few semi-rude comments about signs blocking views or bumping (where I was it was very tightly packed and that seemed to be the case almost everywhere... even on the street.)

Some of the things I enjoyed...

Mythbusters... the laugh/cry/polite laugh bit went on too long, but the wave and the jumping were very cool. The sound of that many people jumping at once was both cool and a bit disturbing.

I thought the possibly 200,000 person version of telephone was awesome. When people in the back/middle couldn't hear, chants of "Louder!" were passed forward even by those who could hear... very cool.

The Peace Train/Crazy Train battle of the bands between Yusef Islam and Ozzy Osbourne was funny.

Sam Waterston's reading of Colbert's poem was good, too.

I really liked the awards and loved the fact that the "Dude, you HAVE no Koran" guy got one.

The only time I really became aware of the fact that my feet hurt was during the musical numbers - which while nice, I thought I could do without.

What are your thoughts on Stewart's "Moment of Sincerity" monologue?

This was the highlight for me, I found it quite effective. I absolutely loved the traffic analogy. I thought he hit the nail on the head with this one.

This post has been edited by entspeak: Nov 1 2010, 12:44 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Dontreadonme
post Nov 1 2010, 12:02 PM
Post #4


Group Icon

**********
I think, therefore I am an enemy of the State....and Fox News

Sponsor
October 2003

Group: Moderators
Posts: 6,452
Member No.: 359
Joined: December-25-02

From: Nestled in the Shenandoah
Gender: Male
Politics: Independent
Party affiliation: Libertarian



Did you go and, if not, did you watch?

I didn't go, something came up at the last minute, but I watched most of the re-air.

What were your impressions?

I thought it was a healthy demonstration against political animus and apathy. I was especially amused by the right wing blogging commentators stating tired false axioms of "why wouldn't all these people show up, they don't have jobs"........apparently forgetting the event was on Saturday.

What are your thoughts on Stewart's "Moment of Sincerity" monologue?

It was one of the best political speeches recently, certainly of this year. Too many [if not all] decisions by policymakers and voters alike are based on party identification. I saw this as a counter to that paradigm.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Raptavio
post Nov 1 2010, 01:57 PM
Post #5


*********
Advanced Senior Contributor

Group: Members
Posts: 3,515
Member No.: 10,458
Joined: April-27-09

From: Rosemount, MN
Gender: Male
Politics: Very Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



It was one of the great frustrations of mine that I was unable to watch any of the rally live, and I am particularly envious of those of you who attended. I unfortunately had to play chauffeur to my kids (who are taking driving lessons) and then had commitments to do GOTV phone banking.

Further frustrations: I have a DVR and didn't think to set it up to record Comedy Central.

However, what snippets I have seen in the aftermath have been hilarious, and I'm particularly heartened that this rally put Beckapalooza to shame in terms of attendance.

I would have laughed uncrontrollably at the chanting of "Three! Word! Phrase! Three! Word! Phrase!"
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Hobbes
post Nov 1 2010, 03:13 PM
Post #6


Group Icon

**********
No More Mr. Nice Guy!

Group: Committee Members
Posts: 5,312
Member No.: 1,155
Joined: September-8-03

From: Dallas, TX
Gender: Male
Politics: Conservative
Party affiliation: Independent



Glad to see some :AD:ers made it!

I watched some of it live on TV...will try to catch more later. What I saw agreed with the article and the other comments here. I tuned in around the time Colbert was brought on, and I thought his 'act' was particularly strained--and I LOVE Colbert. I think Stewart was torn between the actual purpose of the rally, and his comedy act. As others here also stated, the parts focused on the real purpose came through best.

I was glad to see that so many people did show up. I saw the show where Huffington made the offer for rides, Ent--great that you and your friends took her up on that. I also watched the episode with O'Reilly, where he 'politely' declined to take part--I think he thought it would fall flat, and clearly it didn't.

It does make me wonder if somebody will start the 'Sane' party. They'd have the perfect slogan: Sanity. You're either for it, or against it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cicero
post Nov 1 2010, 03:45 PM
Post #7


******
Senior Contributor

Group: Members
Posts: 441
Member No.: 8,824
Joined: July-24-08

Gender: Male
Politics: Independent
Party affiliation: None



What are your thoughts on Stewart's "Moment of Sincerity" monologue?

I just watched the speech liked it very much. Ideas like walking from darkness to light are things I always say to people and could not agree more with. We need to stop the politics and work together as a free people, as Americans. Forget Washington D.C. and Cable news because God knows they are false idols who do not represent most of America.

My favorite line (which I will use from now on) is when Stewart said:

QUOTE
"We live in hard times, not end times."

I cheered when I heard him say that.

I hope the people there truly understand what he was saying and what the event was about and take it to heart. It would be nice to see a new movement come about.


Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AuthorMusician
post Nov 1 2010, 05:18 PM
Post #8


**********
Glasses and journalism work for me.

Sponsor
November 2003

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 6,358
Member No.: 297
Joined: December-1-02

From: Blueberry Hill
Gender: Male
Politics: Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



QUOTE(cicero @ Nov 1 2010, 11:45 AM) *
What are your thoughts on Stewart's "Moment of Sincerity" monologue?

I just watched the speech liked it very much. Ideas like walking from darkness to light are things I always say to people and could not agree more with. We need to stop the politics and work together as a free people, as Americans. Forget Washington D.C. and Cable news because God knows they are false idols who do not represent most of America.

My favorite line (which I will use from now on) is when Stewart said:

QUOTE
"We live in hard times, not end times."

I cheered when I heard him say that.

I hope the people there truly understand what he was saying and what the event was about and take it to heart. It would be nice to see a new movement come about.


Agreed. I watched most of the live streaming and did find that one line from Stewart's speech to be the most important point. I suppose if a movement comes of this, it'll be to stop paying so much attention to the talking heads who don't know what they're talking about. Just give us the news and drop the breathless commentary.

Seems the rally has confused some of the talking heads:

What Is this Thing?



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
cicero
post Nov 1 2010, 05:53 PM
Post #9


******
Senior Contributor

Group: Members
Posts: 441
Member No.: 8,824
Joined: July-24-08

Gender: Male
Politics: Independent
Party affiliation: None



QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Nov 1 2010, 12:18 PM) *
QUOTE(cicero @ Nov 1 2010, 11:45 AM) *
What are your thoughts on Stewart's "Moment of Sincerity" monologue?

I just watched the speech liked it very much. Ideas like walking from darkness to light are things I always say to people and could not agree more with. We need to stop the politics and work together as a free people, as Americans. Forget Washington D.C. and Cable news because God knows they are false idols who do not represent most of America.

My favorite line (which I will use from now on) is when Stewart said:

QUOTE
"We live in hard times, not end times."

I cheered when I heard him say that.

I hope the people there truly understand what he was saying and what the event was about and take it to heart. It would be nice to see a new movement come about.


Agreed. I watched most of the live streaming and did find that one line from Stewart's speech to be the most important point. I suppose if a movement comes of this, it'll be to stop paying so much attention to the talking heads who don't know what they're talking about. Just give us the news and drop the breathless commentary.

Seems the rally has confused some of the talking heads:

What Is this Thing?


Yeah, I also liked how he described the media as our immune system which is going crazy with information only making us sicker (that’s deep). Stewart has a good mind which comes off well in his interviews and now speeches. Also, as entspeak said, his traffic analogy was cool.

What I am looking forward to is to see how Bill O’ Reilly tries to portray this event especially because he told Stewart is was going to be a flop. laugh.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AuthorMusician
post Nov 1 2010, 06:43 PM
Post #10


**********
Glasses and journalism work for me.

Sponsor
November 2003

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 6,358
Member No.: 297
Joined: December-1-02

From: Blueberry Hill
Gender: Male
Politics: Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



QUOTE(cicero @ Nov 1 2010, 01:53 PM) *
What I am looking forward to is to see how Bill O’ Reilly tries to portray this event especially because he told Stewart is was going to be a flop. laugh.gif


I know what Billy O won't say, and that's, "I was so wrong, must be getting senile." It'll also be hard to knock on the crowd size estimate since tickets were sold.

My hope is that Stewart and others make this a biannual pre-Election Day show and put the profits into worthy charities. Keep the theme nonpartisan, pro-voting and dinking the MSM for being what it has become. I'd like to see local rallies along these lines too. My little cow town sports only 8-9,000 people, but there are lots of others scattered outside the city limits who would come for the party and plenty of musicians who would donate their time and talent. The one drawback is weather. We seem to always get a storm around Halloween/All Saints Day/Day of the Dead and so on. Maybe we could have an inside rally.

Well, food for thought.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
akaCG
post Nov 1 2010, 08:59 PM
Post #11


*********
Advanced Senior Contributor

Sponsor
August 2012

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 4,846
Member No.: 10,787
Joined: November-25-09

Gender: Male
Politics: Conservative
Party affiliation: Independent



Did you go and, if not, did you watch?

I had it on CSPAN in the background while I was doing some prep for last night's dinner, and glanced at it occasionally.

What were your impressions?

The humor was disappointingly waaaaay below par for these two otherwise brilliant comedians. The program struck me as pretty disjointed and slap-dash. Colbert's poem was pretty funny, and Waterston delivered it well.

High point: "These are hard times, not end times." Great line.

Low point (and I mean reeeeeeally low point): Yusuf "Salman Rushdie deserves to die" Islam. Good grief. Stupefyingly poor choice, if you're trying to showcase an example of an open-minded and tolerant Muslim.

What are your thoughts on Stewart's "Moment of Sincerity" monologue?

As I mentioned, the "These are hard times, not end times" was a very good line.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Raptavio
post Nov 1 2010, 09:14 PM
Post #12


*********
Advanced Senior Contributor

Group: Members
Posts: 3,515
Member No.: 10,458
Joined: April-27-09

From: Rosemount, MN
Gender: Male
Politics: Very Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



QUOTE(akaCG @ Nov 1 2010, 03:59 PM) *
Low point (and I mean reeeeeeally low point): Yusuf "Salman Rushdie deserves to die" Islam. Good grief. Stupefyingly poor choice, if you're trying to showcase an example of an open-minded and tolerant Muslim.


It's funny how even intelligent conservatives sometimes buy into a vicious narrative uncritically.

http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/talks_cw.html#18
http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/talks_cw.html#20
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
akaCG
post Nov 1 2010, 09:58 PM
Post #13


*********
Advanced Senior Contributor

Sponsor
August 2012

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 4,846
Member No.: 10,787
Joined: November-25-09

Gender: Male
Politics: Conservative
Party affiliation: Independent



QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 05:14 PM) *
QUOTE(akaCG @ Nov 1 2010, 03:59 PM) *
Low point (and I mean reeeeeeally low point): Yusuf "Salman Rushdie deserves to die" Islam. Good grief. Stupefyingly poor choice, if you're trying to showcase an example of an open-minded and tolerant Muslim.


It's funny how even intelligent conservatives sometimes buy into a vicious narrative uncritically.

http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/talks_cw.html#18
http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/talks_cw.html#20

It's sad that even intelligent Liberals swallow Mr. Islam's "I was only joking" explanation so uncritically.

Behold Mr. Islam, in his own words and devoid of any signs of humor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-wjxwpvqps

And, if that weren't enough, there's this (bolding mine):
QUOTE
...
The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.''

The singer, who adopted the name Yusuf Islam when he converted to Islam, made the remark during a panel discussion of British reactions to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's call for Mr. Rushdie to be killed for allegedly blaspheming Islam in his best-selling novel ''The Satanic Verses.'' He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.
...

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/23/books/ca...of-rushdie.html

M'kay?

This post has been edited by akaCG: Nov 1 2010, 10:03 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Raptavio
post Nov 1 2010, 10:22 PM
Post #14


*********
Advanced Senior Contributor

Group: Members
Posts: 3,515
Member No.: 10,458
Joined: April-27-09

From: Rosemount, MN
Gender: Male
Politics: Very Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



QUOTE(akaCG @ Nov 1 2010, 04:58 PM) *
QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 05:14 PM) *
QUOTE(akaCG @ Nov 1 2010, 03:59 PM) *
Low point (and I mean reeeeeeally low point): Yusuf "Salman Rushdie deserves to die" Islam. Good grief. Stupefyingly poor choice, if you're trying to showcase an example of an open-minded and tolerant Muslim.


It's funny how even intelligent conservatives sometimes buy into a vicious narrative uncritically.

http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/talks_cw.html#18
http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/talks_cw.html#20

It's sad that even intelligent Liberals swallow Mr. Islam's "I was only joking" explanation so uncritically.

Behold Mr. Islam, in his own words and devoid of any signs of humor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-wjxwpvqps


Funny how they cut it off RIGHT THERE, isn't it? No audience reaction, no complete answer, no response from the moderator.

Yeah. Always be suspicious when context is stripped. Always.


QUOTE
And, if that weren't enough, there's this (bolding mine):
QUOTE
...
The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.''

The singer, who adopted the name Yusuf Islam when he converted to Islam, made the remark during a panel discussion of British reactions to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's call for Mr. Rushdie to be killed for allegedly blaspheming Islam in his best-selling novel ''The Satanic Verses.'' He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.
...

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/23/books/ca...of-rushdie.html

M'kay?


And yet, those alleged remarks are stripped from the video... isn't that interesting?

I'd say there's a lot of reason to suggest that the whole story isn't being told. Perhaps neither Yusuf Islam's nor the media's accounts are wholly accurate.


ETA: And you think someone like Yusuf Islam could just phone up the Ayatollah? "Hi, Kho? It's Yusuf. Yeah, I got Rushdie here. Send in your goons." Sounds fairly absurdist to me.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Curmudgeon
post Nov 1 2010, 10:45 PM
Post #15


********
I am an unpaid protester!

Sponsor
August 1, 2003

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 1,194
Member No.: 729
Joined: May-14-03

From: Michigan
Gender: Male
Politics: Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



Notes from The Rally to Restore Sanity

We woke at 10:00 AM Friday and started almost immediately to decorate a cemetery for a planned church fund raiser. We had budgeted for a breakeven point of about 20 – 40 customers, and gone over budget. It was a first time effort. About a week earlier, we had held a "Zombie dance" outside a concert venue as it was letting out and handed out flyers. I had my doubts about that, because there was a first time fundraising "Zombie tour" of a WWII LST a block from our dance. On Thursday, that "Zombie tour" was cancelled because they had failed to obtain a permit. We had not finished decorating the cemetery when the first customers arrived. Paid attendance was about 100 people! It was still ongoing when we left at 8:00 PM for Washington DC.

It was "The Rally to Restore Sanity/Rally to Keep Fear Alive." I wore a button Peg had when I met her, "If I want your opinion, I'll read your entrails." and a necklace with a large Peace Symbol.

GPS is interactive with some of the traffic lights in Washington DC. It was very startling to hear an alarm and see a new symbol on the GPS. When the expressway is six lanes wide however, GPS is indispensible.

We arrived in Washington DC circa 11 AM, about an hour before the rally, and we found the National Mall. We asked a cop where we could legally park. "Today? Any place that's posted no parking." We looked for a place to park... Cars were parked in handicapped spaces, in front of fire hydrants, etc.

An hour later, we found a McDonald's that had a parking lot large enough for 4 cars, likely the one at 1539 Pennsylvania Ave SE, but I checked the online Yellow Pages today and I found 40 McDonald's Restaurants listed in Washington, DC. We found a space on the road near it to park. Paladin Elspeth asked someone at the McDonald's for a number to call a cab. That dropped her to a voicemail message that they were not accepting any calls. We started walking, and it was suggested by the natives that we catch a bus. I was checking the bus schedule when Paladin Elspeth flagged a cab. He was done for the day, but pulled out his license, asked us where we were going, and started driving. We were half way to the Rally before he remembered to trip the flag on his meter. He didn't know where to drop us off, but when it became apparent that he was unable to move, we paid him the six bucks on the meter and a four dollar tip.

I was expecting Post 9-11 security. Security was circa mid 1950's; policemen were stopping traffic to allow the pedestrians to enter the mall…

We followed the crowd into the Mall as a band was playing the Star Spangled Banner. As we were passing a fenced off area, the fence was taken down to allow for the unexpected size of the crowd. We were part of the swarm that moved into that area. Visibility was poor. Volume on the sound led to chants of "louder, louder, louder." followed by requests to "Please be quiet so we can hear." Paladin Elspeth began to look for a better view, and people started to follow her. The crowd tightened up. I tried using my cell phone to reach her. It was 4:00 PM before I got through to her phone instead of a recorded message about high call volume. I had been drinking a diet soda. The empty got jostled out several times, and each time, someone picked it up, handed it back to me, and reminded me; "The marines are going to be here tomorrow. They want us to set a good example and leave the park cleaner than we found it." The overwhelming feeling was that it was the most polite gathering we have ever been to.

Political discussions were pretty well limited to, "Remember to Vote on Tuesday." followed by, "Thanks. I voted absentee before I came."

About four years ago, I had printed up some America's Debate information on business cards to hand out when we were discussing AD with friends. I took about twenty cards with me, and I brought a couple cards back.

There was a general consensus that we all came because we felt we needed to be there. One woman mentioned that she was from San Diego. "I heard the announcement, and said to myself, I wish I could go. Then I reserved a plane ticket, and then a hotel room, and then I called work and rescheduled my vacation. The next thing I did was to check my budget to see how I would pay for it. I'm an old hippie…" She was chatting with a friend from Canada. I spent the Rally next to a man from Jackson Hole, Wyoming.

Someone climbed to the top of a traffic light to get a good view. Several young boys climbed trees. One of the trees broke from the added weight.

Near the end of the Rally, an ambulance started to leave complete with a police escort. That process seemed to take about an hour.

When the rally was over, a very few people lit up and began to look for beer.

Around 5:00 PM, we caught up with the couple we were going to ride the bus with. (They had just arrived, but had heard the Rally on the radio.) By 6:00 PM, people were still arriving. We had chosen to rent a car when the bus schedules shifted to where our drive time to catch the Ann Arbor Bus dropped from 4 hours to 1-1/2. The other couple weighed their options, purchased a car, and drove. They arrived early, parked near the end of the subway line, and could not find room to get off the subway. We went with them to look for food. "There is no waiting list. We're likely going to run out of food before 7:30." We decided to find their car, and juggled our bodies from subway car to subway car. After about five transfers, we found their car. We found an open restaurant, and we ate. Then we started looking for the nearest McDonald's on our GPS units. For the most part, they are storefront dine-in restaurants with no place to park or drive up. We found our car circa 9:00 PM and managed to find a room to sleep in for the night shortly before 10 PM.

Checking out the next morning, talking heads on the lobby TV were pooh-poohing crowd estimates. "It has been said that Arianna Huffington bused in as many as 10,000 people from New York City; but there is no room in the city to park that many buses; so the crowd had to be smaller than that." And, "The only people we spoke to there were disgruntled Republicans who planned to vote Tuesday."

I expect that Comedy Central will put out a DVD of the Rally, and I intend to purchase a copy. I'd like to hear what we missed by being there. We are making tentative plans to return to Washington DC in the Spring, tour the Smithsonian, see the cherry trees in bloom, etc.

Overall, a spontaneous decision, a pleasant experience, and I am grateful that we made it safely there, and home again. (Hit the driveway at 4:15 AM, slept, woke up and returned the rental car with copious notes...)

This post has been edited by Curmudgeon: Nov 1 2010, 10:55 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
entspeak
post Nov 2 2010, 12:18 AM
Post #16


**********
Mammal

Sponsor
May 2007

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 6,225
Member No.: 2,568
Joined: March-4-04

From: New York, NY
Gender: Male
Politics: Independent
Party affiliation: None



QUOTE
Low point (and I mean reeeeeeally low point): Yusuf "Salman Rushdie deserves to die" Islam. Good grief. Stupefyingly poor choice, if you're trying to showcase an example of an open-minded and tolerant Muslim.


Great choice of songs, though. Peace Train / Crazy Train. thumbsup.gif

This post has been edited by entspeak: Nov 2 2010, 12:19 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
AuthorMusician
post Nov 2 2010, 12:26 AM
Post #17


**********
Glasses and journalism work for me.

Sponsor
November 2003

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 6,358
Member No.: 297
Joined: December-1-02

From: Blueberry Hill
Gender: Male
Politics: Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



QUOTE(entspeak @ Nov 1 2010, 08:18 PM) *
QUOTE
Low point (and I mean reeeeeeally low point): Yusuf "Salman Rushdie deserves to die" Islam. Good grief. Stupefyingly poor choice, if you're trying to showcase an example of an open-minded and tolerant Muslim.


Great choice of songs, though. Peace Train / Crazy Train. thumbsup.gif


Yeah, the artist formerly known as Cat Stevens still has the chops. Ozzie doesn't make sense unless he's belting out demonic lyrics.

Love Train, that made it all worthwhile.

As a first attempt at a rally, it came off surprisingly well. Those who were looking to be passively entertained may have been disappointed. Also conservatives looking for something to yammer about. Oh well.

This rally's better than your rally, this rally's better than yours tongue.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
akaCG
post Nov 2 2010, 12:26 AM
Post #18


*********
Advanced Senior Contributor

Sponsor
August 2012

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 4,846
Member No.: 10,787
Joined: November-25-09

Gender: Male
Politics: Conservative
Party affiliation: Independent



QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 06:22 PM) *
QUOTE(akaCG @ Nov 1 2010, 04:58 PM) *
QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 05:14 PM) *
QUOTE(akaCG @ Nov 1 2010, 03:59 PM) *
Low point (and I mean reeeeeeally low point): Yusuf "Salman Rushdie deserves to die" Islam. Good grief. Stupefyingly poor choice, if you're trying to showcase an example of an open-minded and tolerant Muslim.

It's funny how even intelligent conservatives sometimes buy into a vicious narrative uncritically.

http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/talks_cw.html#18
http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/talks_cw.html#20

It's sad that even intelligent Liberals swallow Mr. Islam's "I was only joking" explanation so uncritically.

Behold Mr. Islam, in his own words and devoid of any signs of humor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-wjxwpvqps

Funny how they cut it off RIGHT THERE, isn't it? No audience reaction, no complete answer, no response from the moderator.
...

You think that, on the other side of the cut-off point, Mr. Islam breaks into a wide smile, turns to the moderator, and says "Psych! Had you all thinkin' that I was serious there for a moment, didn't I? Ha ha."?

QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 06:22 PM) *
...
Yeah. Always be suspicious when context is stripped. Always.
...

That's funny, coming from someone who just attempted to debunk the veracity of the accounts of what Mr. Islam said and meant regarding Mr. Rushdie by unquestioningly citing ... Mr. Islam's "explanations".

And, pray tell, ...

What additional context, other than the aforementioned "Psych! ..." scenario, would offset the execrable nature of Mr. Islam's remarks up to that point?

QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 06:22 PM) *
...
QUOTE
And, if that weren't enough, there's this (bolding mine):
QUOTE
...
The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.''

The singer, who adopted the name Yusuf Islam when he converted to Islam, made the remark during a panel discussion of British reactions to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's call for Mr. Rushdie to be killed for allegedly blaspheming Islam in his best-selling novel ''The Satanic Verses.'' He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.
...

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/23/books/ca...of-rushdie.html

M'kay?

And yet, those alleged remarks are stripped from the video... isn't that interesting?
...

Yeah, it surely points to the possibility of a vast right wing, middle wing, and left wing conspiracy out to get Mr. Islam since 1989. Uh huh.

Speaking of the left wing part of said possible conspiracy, here's Juan Cole on the matter:
QUOTE
...
He endorsed Khomeini's "fatwa" or death edict against Rushdie for the novel, Satanic Verses. He later explained this position away by saying that he did not endorse vigilante action against Rushdie, but would rather want the verdict to be carried out by a proper court. These are weasel words, since he was saying that if Khomeini had been able to field some Revolutionary Guards in London to kidnap Rushdie and take him to Tehran, it would have been just dandy if he were then taken out and shot for having written his novel. In my view, that entire episode of the Khomeini fatwa showed how sick some forms of Muslim activism had become, and served as a foretaste of al-Qaeda's own death warrant served on a lot of other innocent people.

And, the disavowal wasn't even consistent. AP reported on March 8, 1989, that "Cat Stevens Endorses Rushdie Death Sentence Again," writing:

' Former pop singer Cat Stevens reiterated his support for the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's death sentence against Salman Rushdie, saying the author's treatment of Islam was "as good as stabbing Moslems in the heart." . . . "It's got to be seen as a deterrent, so that other people should not commit the same mistake again," Stevens said in an interview with the television show "World Monitor," produced by The Christian Science Monitor . . Stevens, who said the novel's treatment of Islam was "as good as stabbing Moslems in the heart," suggested that Rushdie should repent writing the book. "If he manages to escape (the death sentence) he still has to face God on the day of judgment," he said. "So I would recommend to him to sincerely change his ways right now." ' At the time, Rushdie's life was in imminent danger, and Cat Stevens was skating pretty close to inciting to murder. (What else is the "deterrent" he is talking about?)
...

Link: http://www.juancole.com/2004/09/cat-steven...that-it-is.html

QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 06:22 PM) *
...
I'd say there's a lot of reason to suggest that the whole story isn't being told. Perhaps neither Yusuf Islam's nor the media's accounts are wholly accurate.
...

It is heartening to see an intelligent Modern "Very Liberal" such as yourself come around to at least considering the notion that swallowing Mr. Islam's "explanations" as uncritically as you originally did wasn't such a good idea.

QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 06:22 PM) *
...
ETA: And you think someone like Yusuf Islam could just phone up the Ayatollah? "Hi, Kho? It's Yusuf. Yeah, I got Rushdie here. Send in your goons." Sounds fairly absurdist to me.

Getting through to the Ayatollah on the phone would indeed be "absurdist" if it involved "mere mortals". But Mr. Islam is no "mere mortal". I bet he'd have had a fairly easy time getting "Kho" to answer the phone. Not as easy, most likely, as Muhammad Ali would have had, but still.

This post has been edited by akaCG: Nov 2 2010, 12:34 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Raptavio
post Nov 2 2010, 12:49 AM
Post #19


*********
Advanced Senior Contributor

Group: Members
Posts: 3,515
Member No.: 10,458
Joined: April-27-09

From: Rosemount, MN
Gender: Male
Politics: Very Liberal
Party affiliation: Democrat



QUOTE(akaCG @ Nov 1 2010, 07:26 PM) *
QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 06:22 PM) *
...
I'd say there's a lot of reason to suggest that the whole story isn't being told. Perhaps neither Yusuf Islam's nor the media's accounts are wholly accurate.
...

It is heartening to see an intelligent Modern "Very Liberal" such as yourself come around to at least considering the notion that swallowing Mr. Islam's "explanations" as uncritically as you originally did wasn't such a good idea.

QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 06:22 PM) *
...
ETA: And you think someone like Yusuf Islam could just phone up the Ayatollah? "Hi, Kho? It's Yusuf. Yeah, I got Rushdie here. Send in your goons." Sounds fairly absurdist to me.

Getting through to the Ayatollah on the phone would indeed be "absurdist" if it involved "mere mortals". But Mr. Islam is no "mere mortal". I bet he'd have had a fairly easy time getting "Kho" to answer the phone. Not as easy, most likely, as Muhammad Ali would have had, but still.


Ah, irony.

You backhandedly compliment me for acknowledging there are two sides to every story and then you double-down on the most obviously absurd of Mr. Islam's alleged remarks.

Well, moving on. Considering Mr. Islam's work as a peace advocate the last twenty years, including his repeated and unequivocal condemnation of terrorism, particularly that on 9/11, I'm not going to lose any sleep over his singing his most famous song at the rally. And that you getting wound up over his appearance is interesing considering your adulation of a man who thinks poisoning the Speaker of the House is a real gasser (to say nothing about the rest of his apocalyptic rhetoric), but there's no accounting for taste.

I guess IOKIYAC.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
entspeak
post Nov 2 2010, 10:01 AM
Post #20


**********
Mammal

Sponsor
May 2007

Group: Sponsors
Posts: 6,225
Member No.: 2,568
Joined: March-4-04

From: New York, NY
Gender: Male
Politics: Independent
Party affiliation: None



QUOTE(akaCG @ Nov 1 2010, 08:26 PM) *
QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 06:22 PM) *
QUOTE(akaCG @ Nov 1 2010, 04:58 PM) *
QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 05:14 PM) *
QUOTE(akaCG @ Nov 1 2010, 03:59 PM) *
Low point (and I mean reeeeeeally low point): Yusuf "Salman Rushdie deserves to die" Islam. Good grief. Stupefyingly poor choice, if you're trying to showcase an example of an open-minded and tolerant Muslim.

It's funny how even intelligent conservatives sometimes buy into a vicious narrative uncritically.

http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/talks_cw.html#18
http://www.mountainoflight.co.uk/talks_cw.html#20

It's sad that even intelligent Liberals swallow Mr. Islam's "I was only joking" explanation so uncritically.

Behold Mr. Islam, in his own words and devoid of any signs of humor:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-wjxwpvqps

Funny how they cut it off RIGHT THERE, isn't it? No audience reaction, no complete answer, no response from the moderator.
...

You think that, on the other side of the cut-off point, Mr. Islam breaks into a wide smile, turns to the moderator, and says "Psych! Had you all thinkin' that I was serious there for a moment, didn't I? Ha ha."?

QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 06:22 PM) *
...
Yeah. Always be suspicious when context is stripped. Always.
...

That's funny, coming from someone who just attempted to debunk the veracity of the accounts of what Mr. Islam said and meant regarding Mr. Rushdie by unquestioningly citing ... Mr. Islam's "explanations".

And, pray tell, ...

What additional context, other than the aforementioned "Psych! ..." scenario, would offset the execrable nature of Mr. Islam's remarks up to that point?

QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 06:22 PM) *
...
QUOTE
And, if that weren't enough, there's this (bolding mine):
QUOTE
...
The musician known as Cat Stevens said in a British television program to be broadcast next week that rather than go to a demonstration to burn an effigy of the author Salman Rushdie, ''I would have hoped that it'd be the real thing.''

The singer, who adopted the name Yusuf Islam when he converted to Islam, made the remark during a panel discussion of British reactions to Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's call for Mr. Rushdie to be killed for allegedly blaspheming Islam in his best-selling novel ''The Satanic Verses.'' He also said that if Mr. Rushdie turned up at his doorstep looking for help, ''I might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like.''

''I'd try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is,'' said Mr. Islam, who watched a preview of the program today and said in an interview that he stood by his comments.
...

Link: http://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/23/books/ca...of-rushdie.html

M'kay?

And yet, those alleged remarks are stripped from the video... isn't that interesting?
...

Yeah, it surely points to the possibility of a vast right wing, middle wing, and left wing conspiracy out to get Mr. Islam since 1989. Uh huh.

Speaking of the left wing part of said possible conspiracy, here's Juan Cole on the matter:
QUOTE
...
He endorsed Khomeini's "fatwa" or death edict against Rushdie for the novel, Satanic Verses. He later explained this position away by saying that he did not endorse vigilante action against Rushdie, but would rather want the verdict to be carried out by a proper court. These are weasel words, since he was saying that if Khomeini had been able to field some Revolutionary Guards in London to kidnap Rushdie and take him to Tehran, it would have been just dandy if he were then taken out and shot for having written his novel. In my view, that entire episode of the Khomeini fatwa showed how sick some forms of Muslim activism had become, and served as a foretaste of al-Qaeda's own death warrant served on a lot of other innocent people.

And, the disavowal wasn't even consistent. AP reported on March 8, 1989, that "Cat Stevens Endorses Rushdie Death Sentence Again," writing:

' Former pop singer Cat Stevens reiterated his support for the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's death sentence against Salman Rushdie, saying the author's treatment of Islam was "as good as stabbing Moslems in the heart." . . . "It's got to be seen as a deterrent, so that other people should not commit the same mistake again," Stevens said in an interview with the television show "World Monitor," produced by The Christian Science Monitor . . Stevens, who said the novel's treatment of Islam was "as good as stabbing Moslems in the heart," suggested that Rushdie should repent writing the book. "If he manages to escape (the death sentence) he still has to face God on the day of judgment," he said. "So I would recommend to him to sincerely change his ways right now." ' At the time, Rushdie's life was in imminent danger, and Cat Stevens was skating pretty close to inciting to murder. (What else is the "deterrent" he is talking about?)
...

Link: http://www.juancole.com/2004/09/cat-steven...that-it-is.html

QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 06:22 PM) *
...
I'd say there's a lot of reason to suggest that the whole story isn't being told. Perhaps neither Yusuf Islam's nor the media's accounts are wholly accurate.
...

It is heartening to see an intelligent Modern "Very Liberal" such as yourself come around to at least considering the notion that swallowing Mr. Islam's "explanations" as uncritically as you originally did wasn't such a good idea.

QUOTE(Raptavio @ Nov 1 2010, 06:22 PM) *
...
ETA: And you think someone like Yusuf Islam could just phone up the Ayatollah? "Hi, Kho? It's Yusuf. Yeah, I got Rushdie here. Send in your goons." Sounds fairly absurdist to me.

Getting through to the Ayatollah on the phone would indeed be "absurdist" if it involved "mere mortals". But Mr. Islam is no "mere mortal". I bet he'd have had a fairly easy time getting "Kho" to answer the phone. Not as easy, most likely, as Muhammad Ali would have had, but still.


But it was a great song for a battle of the Sanity/Fear bands, right? Man, it was good! thumbsup.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

  
Go to the top of the page - Simple Version Time is now: September 22nd, 2018 - 10:47 PM
©2002-2010 America's Debate, Inc.  All rights reserved.