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> VP Debate, So, what do you think?
AuthorMusician
post Oct 12 2012, 02:35 AM
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Yep, it's really simple:

What do you think about the VP debate, 2012?
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scubatim
post Oct 12 2012, 11:48 PM
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QUOTE(Dingo @ Oct 12 2012, 06:42 PM) *
QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 12 2012, 04:36 PM) *
QUOTE(Dingo @ Oct 12 2012, 06:31 PM) *
QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 12 2012, 04:19 PM) *
Please show that I am a liar. I beg you.

I have no idea whether you are a liar. Maybe you are just ideological fixated. Your lack of interest in reality is manifest all over the forum.

My suggestion is get back to topics and stop worrying about what I or anybody thinks of you. If you or I fall on our faces that will be manifest to anybody who is interested. hmmm.gif

Truth be told, I don't like you much and in turn don't worry about what you think of me.

Well you keep following me around like a whining dog. Find somebody else to occupy yourself with. cool.gif

Don't flatter yourself. You just happen to jump into debates with your ill-informed partisan responses that I can't help but point out how flawed they are. If your posts were more thought provoking and intelligent, I probably wouldn't feel the need to pick them apart. As it is, I have a hard time letting obviously flawed, inaccurate and biased posts go unchallenged. Maybe Joe and I do have something in common.
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Dingo
post Oct 13 2012, 12:06 AM
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QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 12 2012, 04:48 PM) *
Don't flatter yourself.

I don't feel flattered, just dogged. The bar is invariably so low it's more like getting yapped at.

But you are a conservative so you can't help it. innocent.gif
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scubatim
post Oct 13 2012, 12:08 AM
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QUOTE(Dingo @ Oct 12 2012, 07:06 PM) *
QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 12 2012, 04:48 PM) *
Don't flatter yourself.

I don't feel flattered, just dogged. The bar is invariably so low it's more like getting yapped at.

But you are a conservative so you can't help it. innocent.gif

You really don't want anyone on this board to take you serious, do you? Playing victim is less than what anyone here would expect from a member.
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Dingo
post Oct 13 2012, 12:15 AM
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QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 12 2012, 05:08 PM) *
QUOTE(Dingo @ Oct 12 2012, 07:06 PM) *
QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 12 2012, 04:48 PM) *
Don't flatter yourself.

I don't feel flattered, just dogged. The bar is invariably so low it's more like getting yapped at.

But you are a conservative so you can't help it. innocent.gif

You really don't want anyone on this board to take you serious, do you? Playing victim is less than what anyone here would expect from a member.

I'm curious. Are you capable of standing on your own feet or must you over and over concoct a crowd to feel secure in your views?
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scubatim
post Oct 13 2012, 12:34 AM
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QUOTE(Dingo @ Oct 12 2012, 07:15 PM) *
QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 12 2012, 05:08 PM) *
QUOTE(Dingo @ Oct 12 2012, 07:06 PM) *
QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 12 2012, 04:48 PM) *
Don't flatter yourself.

I don't feel flattered, just dogged. The bar is invariably so low it's more like getting yapped at.

But you are a conservative so you can't help it. innocent.gif

You really don't want anyone on this board to take you serious, do you? Playing victim is less than what anyone here would expect from a member.

I'm curious. Are you capable of standing on your own feet or must you over and over concoct a crowd to feel secure in your views?

I think we have taken this forum far enough off topic to prevent me from entertaining any more responses to what is obviously a bunch of posts you are hiding behind because you have nothing to refute my initial point of you using obviously biased, partisan and ill-informed sources.
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Hobbes
post Oct 13 2012, 01:39 AM
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QUOTE
"[W]e weren't told they wanted more security there ... We did not know they wanted more security ..."
--- Joe Biden, at last night's debate

"The Vice President was speaking about himself and the President and the White House. He was not referring to the administration ... Obviously, he was referring to, he wasn't talking about the administration writ large, he was speaking about himself and the President and the White House."
--- Jay Carney, at this morning's WH press



Hmmmm Plausible deniability anyone?

And why, if 'the administration' was informed, weren't the President or Vice President aware of it? Wasn't this their number one priority????

This is major spin. Clearly they have decided things are spiraling out of their control because this is essentially the 'we don't really know what is going on usually' defense, and they wouldn't go that route if they didn't have to.

What ever happened to 'The buck stops here?'. Apparently only when convenient....
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scubatim
post Oct 13 2012, 02:19 AM
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QUOTE(Hobbes @ Oct 12 2012, 08:39 PM) *
QUOTE
"[W]e weren't told they wanted more security there ... We did not know they wanted more security ..."
--- Joe Biden, at last night's debate

"The Vice President was speaking about himself and the President and the White House. He was not referring to the administration ... Obviously, he was referring to, he wasn't talking about the administration writ large, he was speaking about himself and the President and the White House."
--- Jay Carney, at this morning's WH press



Hmmmm Plausible deniability anyone?

And why, if 'the administration' was informed, weren't the President or Vice President aware of it? Wasn't this their number one priority????

This is major spin. Clearly they have decided things are spiraling out of their control because this is essentially the 'we don't really know what is going on usually' defense, and they wouldn't go that route if they didn't have to.

What ever happened to 'The buck stops here?'. Apparently only when convenient....

I think this is going to be a hard one for the candidacy to overcome between now and election day. Fortunately (kind of) for the ticket, the economy is the big issue in this election. However, with the next two debates, the Romney ticket have an opportunity to capitalize. Not that Romney is the most well versed foreign affairs candidate in history, but he has never claimed to be either.
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JohnfrmCleveland
post Oct 13 2012, 02:27 AM
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What do you think about the VP debate, 2012?

I didn't watch it. But Biden won the debate, and here's why:

Nobody is talking about Ryan.

Nobody is talking about the points at all. It's all about Biden and how he acted. And whether that's positive or negative, Ryan is being completely shut out of the news. And that's exactly what Obama/Biden needed. Political debates in this country aren't won by being correct, they are won by being the guy people remember after the show.
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AuthorMusician
post Oct 13 2012, 10:30 AM
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QUOTE(JohnfrmCleveland @ Oct 12 2012, 10:27 PM) *
What do you think about the VP debate, 2012?

I didn't watch it. But Biden won the debate, and here's why:

Nobody is talking about Ryan.

Nobody is talking about the points at all. It's all about Biden and how he acted. And whether that's positive or negative, Ryan is being completely shut out of the news. And that's exactly what Obama/Biden needed. Political debates in this country aren't won by being correct, they are won by being the guy people remember after the show.


That's still true. I had not noticed this, but the debate rules have changed somewhat. There are no longer red lights flashing when the time is up, which was a bit boneheaded to begin with. The moderator has to make sure that equal time is given over 90 minutes, a job I'd not want to take unless the money was really good and paid up front. Lawrence O'Donnell inspired the changes from a script he had written for TV, and he wants the format to look more like a debate in the Senate with an assistant helping each debater somewhat off-camera.

As it stands now, the performance is all-important, as if this has anything to do with the job. I think O'Donnell is too idealistic in this sense. Every job interview I've ever been on has been a performance, replete with costume (suit) and makeup (talcum powder). Part of the tech interviews had to do with recalling tech trivia, at which I've never been very good. However, there is some value to it because it can reflect how intimate I was with any given technology.

Ryan had been built up as the facts/figures guy who would wipe the floor with Biden. That didn't work out because Ryan had to dodge the specifics on several subjects, which apparently clipped his wings. He has facts/figures that need to be hidden.

Meanwhile, Biden is under no such restriction. He also has the distinct ability to come out swinging, on the offensive, straight off, but mostly his facts/figures are not only true, he can take pride in them for having accomplished a great deal despite the Republican headwinds.

I remember one interview, a rather important one, that ended with a senior tech telling management to hire me. She wanted me on her team, so do it. There's the question that might have been answered for some voters: Who do you want on your team, someone willing to fight for you or this other guy who has to be evasive?

It'll be interesting to see if Biden's performance results in an Obama bump next week.
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Hobbes
post Oct 13 2012, 01:55 PM
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QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 12 2012, 09:19 PM) *
I think this is going to be a hard one for the candidacy to overcome between now and election day. Fortunately (kind of) for the ticket, the economy is the big issue in this election. However, with the next two debates, the Romney ticket have an opportunity to capitalize. Not that Romney is the most well versed foreign affairs candidate in history, but he has never claimed to be either.


True, but the next debate is over foreign policy, so this could play a very prominent roll...if I were Romney, I would make sure it did.

QUOTE
Part of the tech interviews had to do with recalling tech trivia, at which I've never been very good


Me either. I was always more concerned with process, because failure to follow good process is always more likely to cause problems than not being able to recite the 7 layers in your sleep. You can look trivia up on Google, but that won't help you if your process is bad.

This post has been edited by Hobbes: Oct 13 2012, 01:55 PM
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scubatim
post Oct 13 2012, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE(Hobbes @ Oct 13 2012, 08:55 AM) *
QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 12 2012, 09:19 PM) *
I think this is going to be a hard one for the candidacy to overcome between now and election day. Fortunately (kind of) for the ticket, the economy is the big issue in this election. However, with the next two debates, the Romney ticket have an opportunity to capitalize. Not that Romney is the most well versed foreign affairs candidate in history, but he has never claimed to be either.


True, but the next debate is over foreign policy, so this could play a very prominent roll...if I were Romney, I would make sure it did.

Actually, the next one is the town hall that will cover both domestic and foreign policy. My guess is that Obama is going to try and keep the focus on the $5 trillion line and the 47% line and Romney will try to redirect questions to the Middle East. I know they can't control what questions are asked, but how often do candidates actually answer questions anyway?
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Hobbes
post Oct 13 2012, 08:44 PM
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QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 13 2012, 12:53 PM) *
Actually, the next one is the town hall that will cover both domestic and foreign policy. My guess is that Obama is going to try and keep the focus on the $5 trillion line and the 47% line and Romney will try to redirect questions to the Middle East. I know they can't control what questions are asked, but how often do candidates actually answer questions anyway?


True, and I have a difficult time believing they really have no control over the questions.
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Amlord
post Oct 13 2012, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 13 2012, 01:53 PM) *
Actually, the next one is the town hall that will cover both domestic and foreign policy. My guess is that Obama is going to try and keep the focus on the $5 trillion line and the 47% line and Romney will try to redirect questions to the Middle East. I know they can't control what questions are asked, but how often do candidates actually answer questions anyway?

Romney should focus on the economy and jobs. Nobody believes that the job situation is getting better (because it isn't). Foreign policy is unravelling. Just about any topic is going to be bad for Obama.
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akaCG
post Oct 13 2012, 09:42 PM
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QUOTE(Hobbes @ Oct 13 2012, 04:44 PM) *
QUOTE(scubatim @ Oct 13 2012, 12:53 PM) *
Actually, the next one is the town hall that will cover both domestic and foreign policy. My guess is that Obama is going to try and keep the focus on the $5 trillion line and the 47% line and Romney will try to redirect questions to the Middle East. I know they can't control what questions are asked, but how often do candidates actually answer questions anyway?

True, and I have a difficult time believing they really have no control over the questions.

The "town folk" will be self-described "undecideds" selected by the Gallup Organization.

ps:
Here's some fascinating reading about recent developments (starting in April and culminating a week or so ago) involving the Gallup Organization, the Obama campaign, and the DOJ:

http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/06/justice-...ized-pollsters/

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/20...lup-doj-axelrod

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/26148...ing-methodology

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Hobbes
post Oct 14 2012, 01:50 AM
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QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 13 2012, 04:42 PM) *
The "town folk" will be self-described "undecideds" selected by the Gallup Organization.


Yes, but you know that they have to vet the questions. So, it isn't random already. Who knows if the campaigns get any listing of which questions passed that test? Or that the moderators know which people posed which questions, and hence who to ask to get that question? The flow on previous debates of this nature seemed to natural for it not to be choreographed to some degree. I don't generally go in for conspiracy theories...but then I also don't believe that such things aren't controlled if possible, and, behind the scenes, 'possible' could go a long ways.

Not saying this is done do one side's benefit or the other, just that it isn't as random as they probably want it to appear. I suspect those polled aren't even as 'undecided' as they might claim, simply because no one really is. Does anyone here know anyone who really has a 50-50 shot of voting either way? A bias away from true neutral will show up in the question you might ask--it is really hard to ask truly neutral questions...takes a few hours per question to keep redoing. You think the audience did that? If they didn't....who helped them with it? And so on...

This post has been edited by Hobbes: Oct 14 2012, 02:00 AM
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entspeak
post Oct 14 2012, 05:11 PM
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QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 13 2012, 05:42 PM) *
ps:
Here's some fascinating reading about recent developments (starting in April and culminating a week or so ago) involving the Gallup Organization, the Obama campaign, and the DOJ:

http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/06/justice-...ized-pollsters/

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/20...lup-doj-axelrod

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/26148...ing-methodology
PS: Here's a video about some tea in China: a video about some tea in china.

This post has been edited by entspeak: Oct 14 2012, 05:11 PM
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akaCG
post Oct 14 2012, 07:03 PM
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QUOTE(entspeak @ Oct 14 2012, 01:11 PM) *
QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 13 2012, 05:42 PM) *
ps:
Here's some fascinating reading about recent developments (starting in April and culminating a week or so ago) involving the Gallup Organization, the Obama campaign, and the DOJ:

http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/06/justice-...ized-pollsters/

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/20...lup-doj-axelrod

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/26148...ing-methodology
PS: Here's a video about some tea in China: a video about some tea in china.

Since you brought up China, ...:
QUOTE
...
Further complicating the issue are websites like Obama.com—which is owned not by the Obama campaign but by Robert Roche, an American businessman and Obama fundraiser who lives in Shanghai. Roche’s China-based media company, Acorn International, runs infomercials on Chinese state television. Obama.com redirects to a specific donation page on BarackObama.com, the official campaign website. Unlike BarackObama.com, Obama.com’s traffic is 68 percent foreign, according to markosweb.com, a traffic-analysis website. According to France-based web analytics site Mustat.com, Obama.com receives over 2,000 visitors every day.

The name Robert W. Roche appears 11 times in the White House visitors log during the Obama administration. Roche also sits on the Obama administration’s Advisory Committee for Trade Policy and Negotiations, and is a co-chair of Technology for Obama, a fundraising effort. (In an email exchange, Roche declined to discuss his website, or his support for the Obama reelection effort, referring the inquiries to the Obama campaign team. The Obama campaign, in turn, says it has no control over Roche’s website; it also says only 2 percent of the donations associated with Obama.com come from overseas.)
...
... the Obama campaign does not use a standard security tool, the card verification value (CVV) system—the three- or four-digit number often imprinted on the back of a credit card, whose purpose is to verify that the person executing the purchase (or, in this case, donation) physically possesses the card. The Romney campaign, by contrast, does use the CVV—as has almost every other candidate who has run for president in recent years, from Hillary Clinton in 2008 to Ron Paul this year. (The Obama campaign says it doesn’t use the CVV because it can be an inhibiting factor for some small donors.) Interestingly, the Obama campaign’s online store requires the CVV to purchase items like hats or hoodies (the campaign points out that its merchandise vendor requires the tool).
...

Link: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012...r-loophole.html

Extra: "Seating arrangements at the state dinner for China". The menu did not feature tea.

Reminder (bolding mine):

"I don’t think American elections should be bankrolled by America’s most powerful interests, and worse, by foreign entities."
--- President Obama, 2010 State of the Union Address

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entspeak
post Oct 14 2012, 09:20 PM
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QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 14 2012, 03:03 PM) *
QUOTE(entspeak @ Oct 14 2012, 01:11 PM) *
QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 13 2012, 05:42 PM) *
ps:
Here's some fascinating reading about recent developments (starting in April and culminating a week or so ago) involving the Gallup Organization, the Obama campaign, and the DOJ:

http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/06/justice-...ized-pollsters/

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/20...lup-doj-axelrod

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/26148...ing-methodology
PS: Here's a video about some tea in China: a video about some tea in china.

Since you brought up China, ...:
QUOTE
...
Further complicating the issue are websites like Obama.com—which is owned not by the Obama campaign but by Robert Roche, an American businessman and Obama fundraiser who lives in Shanghai. Roche’s China-based media company, Acorn International, runs infomercials on Chinese state television. Obama.com redirects to a specific donation page on BarackObama.com, the official campaign website. Unlike BarackObama.com, Obama.com’s traffic is 68 percent foreign, according to markosweb.com, a traffic-analysis website. According to France-based web analytics site Mustat.com, Obama.com receives over 2,000 visitors every day.

The name Robert W. Roche appears 11 times in the White House visitors log during the Obama administration. Roche also sits on the Obama administration’s Advisory Committee for Trade Policy and Negotiations, and is a co-chair of Technology for Obama, a fundraising effort. (In an email exchange, Roche declined to discuss his website, or his support for the Obama reelection effort, referring the inquiries to the Obama campaign team. The Obama campaign, in turn, says it has no control over Roche’s website; it also says only 2 percent of the donations associated with Obama.com come from overseas.)
...
... the Obama campaign does not use a standard security tool, the card verification value (CVV) system—the three- or four-digit number often imprinted on the back of a credit card, whose purpose is to verify that the person executing the purchase (or, in this case, donation) physically possesses the card. The Romney campaign, by contrast, does use the CVV—as has almost every other candidate who has run for president in recent years, from Hillary Clinton in 2008 to Ron Paul this year. (The Obama campaign says it doesn’t use the CVV because it can be an inhibiting factor for some small donors.) Interestingly, the Obama campaign’s online store requires the CVV to purchase items like hats or hoodies (the campaign points out that its merchandise vendor requires the tool).
...

Link: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012...r-loophole.html

Extra: "Seating arrangements at the state dinner for China". The menu did not feature tea.

Reminder (bolding mine):

"I don’t think American elections should be bankrolled by America’s most powerful interests, and worse, by foreign entities."
--- President Obama, 2010 State of the Union Address

And, yet... funny... all I see is more tea. I do wonder how much it costs.
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akaCG
post Oct 14 2012, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE(entspeak @ Oct 14 2012, 05:20 PM) *
QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 14 2012, 03:03 PM) *
QUOTE(entspeak @ Oct 14 2012, 01:11 PM) *
QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 13 2012, 05:42 PM) *
ps:
Here's some fascinating reading about recent developments (starting in April and culminating a week or so ago) involving the Gallup Organization, the Obama campaign, and the DOJ:

http://dailycaller.com/2012/09/06/justice-...ized-pollsters/

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/20...lup-doj-axelrod

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/26148...ing-methodology
PS: Here's a video about some tea in China: a video about some tea in china.

Since you brought up China, ...:
QUOTE
...
Further complicating the issue are websites like Obama.com—which is owned not by the Obama campaign but by Robert Roche, an American businessman and Obama fundraiser who lives in Shanghai. Roche’s China-based media company, Acorn International, runs infomercials on Chinese state television. Obama.com redirects to a specific donation page on BarackObama.com, the official campaign website. Unlike BarackObama.com, Obama.com’s traffic is 68 percent foreign, according to markosweb.com, a traffic-analysis website. According to France-based web analytics site Mustat.com, Obama.com receives over 2,000 visitors every day.

The name Robert W. Roche appears 11 times in the White House visitors log during the Obama administration. Roche also sits on the Obama administration’s Advisory Committee for Trade Policy and Negotiations, and is a co-chair of Technology for Obama, a fundraising effort. (In an email exchange, Roche declined to discuss his website, or his support for the Obama reelection effort, referring the inquiries to the Obama campaign team. The Obama campaign, in turn, says it has no control over Roche’s website; it also says only 2 percent of the donations associated with Obama.com come from overseas.)
...
... the Obama campaign does not use a standard security tool, the card verification value (CVV) system—the three- or four-digit number often imprinted on the back of a credit card, whose purpose is to verify that the person executing the purchase (or, in this case, donation) physically possesses the card. The Romney campaign, by contrast, does use the CVV—as has almost every other candidate who has run for president in recent years, from Hillary Clinton in 2008 to Ron Paul this year. (The Obama campaign says it doesn’t use the CVV because it can be an inhibiting factor for some small donors.) Interestingly, the Obama campaign’s online store requires the CVV to purchase items like hats or hoodies (the campaign points out that its merchandise vendor requires the tool).
...

Link: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012...r-loophole.html

Extra: "Seating arrangements at the state dinner for China". The menu did not feature tea.

Reminder (bolding mine):

"I don’t think American elections should be bankrolled by America’s most powerful interests, and worse, by foreign entities."
--- President Obama, 2010 State of the Union Address

And, yet... funny... all I see is more tea. I do wonder how much it costs.

The special brand of tea that you see (the kind that one simply pretends into existence) is free, of course. Not just in China, but everywhere.

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entspeak
post Oct 15 2012, 01:24 AM
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QUOTE(akaCG @ Oct 14 2012, 05:48 PM) *
The special brand of tea that you see (the kind that one simply pretends into existence) is free, of course. Not just in China, but everywhere.

And what do the links in your past couple of posts have to do with that price?
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