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> "Voting is the best Revenge"
Bikerdad
post Nov 4 2012, 08:02 PM
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At a campaign appearance in Springfield, Ohio, President Obama had this to say:
"oh no, no, no. Don't boo. Vote. Vote. Voting is the best revenge."

Questions for debate:

1} Do we really want the politics of revenge?

2} Revenge for what?
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amf
post Nov 4 2012, 09:37 PM
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Context for the clip may help: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/02/o..._n_2067459.html (the video, not the supporting text, since the video is clear what he's saying and why)

1. We've always had politics of revenge. What do you think the 2010 election was about? That was a pure revenge play at the success Obama was having implmenting some of his policies... and the revenge was quite successful.

2. The topic of the booing was Mitt Romney. You'll have to ask them why they were booing. Then you'll understand why they might want to "get back at him" and vote against him.

This post has been edited by amf: Nov 4 2012, 09:37 PM
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BoF
post Nov 4 2012, 09:39 PM
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QUOTE(Bikerdad @ Nov 4 2012, 02:02 PM) *
At a campaign appearance in Springfield, Ohio, President Obama had this to say:
"oh no, no, no. Don't boo. Vote. Vote. Voting is the best revenge."

Questions for debate:

1} Do we really want the politics of revenge?

2} Revenge for what?

Your link does not include what the president was telling the audience not to boo. Without this information the second question cannot be answered.

There are some things that call for revenge. One of them is Mitch McConnell's bottling up most of Obama's proposals in the senate.

This post has been edited by BoF: Nov 4 2012, 09:42 PM
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vsrenard
post Nov 4 2012, 11:40 PM
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It's worth remembering that old adage that "Living well is the best revenge." Taken in context, it actually encourages one to look past revenge and do what is in her long term interests. It's not about being angry at the other person for any number of things (or booing him) but moving past that.

And yes, I do think that is a good motivation behind voting.
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skeeterses
post Nov 4 2012, 11:55 PM
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1} Do we really want the politics of revenge?
Actually, what I want, and a lot of other voters want, is a politics that respects AND enforces the rule of law. Revenge too often is a very skewed form of justice where
a vigilante knocks someone off without the facts coming out in a formal trial.

2} Revenge for what?
If the crime in question is the financial corruption on Wall Street, President Obama has done a disservice to the nation by overlooking the crimes in 2009 and then choosing to use
Wall Street as a scapegoat in the 2012 election. He had the golden opportunity to prosecute those sh*y deals back in 2009 and 2010, but chose instead to bail those crooks out.
If it has to do with racial politics and showing favoritism to latinos and bashing us greedy and lazy whites, Obama has done a terrible disservice to the country there.

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Paladin Elspeth
post Nov 5 2012, 12:21 AM
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I have to say, so what?

One of John F. Kennedy's best sayings was, "Don't get mad; get even."

Maybe the booing had something to do with the veracity-challenged ad where Romney's camp was alleging that Jeep was taking existing jobs away from Americans by planning to build a plant in China, where the Chinese like to "Buy Chinese" (sound similar to "Buy American"?). The CEO of Chrysler refuted it, but the lie goes on and on. That gets Democrats angry and auto workers for Jeep upset unnecessarily.

People are wondering whether the GOP can successfully get their candidate elected without telling lies somewhere down the line. If the GOP candidate is so darn good, it would follow that lying about the other side would not be necessary.

Perhaps it was anger at Romney campaign tactics that spurred the booing. To which Obama evidently said, "Don't boo. Vote. Vote. Voting is the best revenge" to people who can't pay for ads to be spread across the airwaves directly refuting the spurious campaign ad.

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Nov 5 2012, 12:28 AM
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trumpetplayer
post Nov 5 2012, 12:50 AM
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QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Nov 4 2012, 07:21 PM) *
I have to say, so what?

One of John F. Kennedy's best sayings was, "Don't get mad; get even."

Maybe the booing had something to do with the veracity-challenged ad where Romney's camp was alleging that Jeep was taking existing jobs away from Americans by planning to build a plant in China, where the Chinese like to "Buy Chinese" (sound similar to "Buy American"?). The CEO of Chrysler refuted it, but the lie goes on and on. That gets Democrats angry and auto workers for Jeep upset unnecessarily.

People are wondering whether the GOP can successfully get their candidate elected without telling lies somewhere down the line. If the GOP candidate is so darn good, it would follow that lying about the other side would not be necessary.

Perhaps it was anger at Romney campaign tactics that spurred the booing. To which Obama evidently said, "Don't boo. Vote. Vote. Voting is the best revenge" to people who can't pay for ads to be spread across the airwaves directly refuting the spurious campaign ad.



Of course you would say that and make excuses. Had Romney or a Republican said that..well we all know that your response would be different. How can you tell a liberal is lying...their lips are moving.

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Curmudgeon
post Nov 5 2012, 01:09 AM
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QUOTE(Bikerdad @ Nov 4 2012, 03:02 PM) *

Okay, I snipped it so that it is "out of context," but what is wrong with any politician urging their supporters to vote just before an election?

Our 18 year old daughter and her husband have both told us that they intend to vote as Republicans. A few issues arose today:

"I don't know where I need to go to vote..."

"Will I have enough time to vote between school and work?"

I came home and did some research and e-mailed some answers to her. I promised her that if they needed a ride to the polls, I would see that she got it.

I know who I voted for, but I feel that it is more important to this democracy that she form the habit of voting. When I dropped an e-mail to my 41 year old daughter before the primaries to remind her to vote, she e-mailed back that she had never missed an Election because when she was still in Elementary School, I took her with me to the polls.

For whatever reason you choose to vote; it would be absurd to get on this forum, debate all the issues, get thoroughly informed, and then sit it our on Election Day because you think your vote won't make a difference!

Vote for the candidate that you want to win, or vote against the candidate that you want to lose. Open the curtain and remember, it is a secret ballot! You can with a clear conscience cast a vote for Barack Obama, tell the Exit Pollster that you voted for Ron Paul, and tell your boss that you voted straight Republican.

By the end of January, we will have at the very least a redistribution of power in Congress, and a shuffling of leadership in a large number of states. Of all the words that have been bandied about by politicians during the past several years; I doubt very much that I will hear a single analyst saying on January 20, "Voting really was the best revenge."
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AuthorMusician
post Nov 5 2012, 04:12 PM
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1} Do we really want the politics of revenge?

2} Revenge for what?


Probably not, and it beats me. Not everything politicians say makes sense.

However, if revenge is a voter's motive, it sure beats knifing Caesar.
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nighttimer
post Nov 5 2012, 05:34 PM
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1} Do we really want the politics of revenge?

Don't be so Pollyannish. We already have the politics of revenge. Obama didn't create it though the Republicans have perfected it. Every time they open their yap and that "Take our country back" nonsense spills out of it, that isn't an appeal to patriotism or to making the country a better place. It's an appeal to resentment, anger and ignorance.

Take our country back? From who? unsure.gif It was never only your country in the first place.

If you really want the country back, go ask Mittens and his pals about it. They're the ones with the receipt.

2} Revenge for what?

As vsrenard already observed, if living well is the best revenge, voting is the best revenge against Republican attempts to suppress and disenfranchise likely Democratic voters and to flip the bird to the Sheldon Adelson, Koch Brothers and other wealthy fat cats who are pouring money into the election or telling their workers to vote the way the boss likes--or else.


QUOTE(trumpetplayer @ Nov 4 2012, 07:50 PM) *
QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Nov 4 2012, 07:21 PM) *
I have to say, so what?

One of John F. Kennedy's best sayings was, "Don't get mad; get even."

Maybe the booing had something to do with the veracity-challenged ad where Romney's camp was alleging that Jeep was taking existing jobs away from Americans by planning to build a plant in China, where the Chinese like to "Buy Chinese" (sound similar to "Buy American"?). The CEO of Chrysler refuted it, but the lie goes on and on. That gets Democrats angry and auto workers for Jeep upset unnecessarily.

People are wondering whether the GOP can successfully get their candidate elected without telling lies somewhere down the line. If the GOP candidate is so darn good, it would follow that lying about the other side would not be necessary.

Perhaps it was anger at Romney campaign tactics that spurred the booing. To which Obama evidently said, "Don't boo. Vote. Vote. Voting is the best revenge" to people who can't pay for ads to be spread across the airwaves directly refuting the spurious campaign ad.



Of course you would say that and make excuses. Had Romney or a Republican said that..well we all know that your response would be different. How can you tell a liberal is lying...their lips are moving.


Conversely, how can you tell when a right-winger has nothing to add to a debate but jumps in anyway to be moronic and rude? When trumpet player wades into a debate for the express purpose of criticizing liberals. dry.gif
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scubatim
post Nov 5 2012, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE(nighttimer @ Nov 5 2012, 11:34 AM) *
1} Do we really want the politics of revenge?

Don't be so Pollyannish. We already have the politics of revenge. Obama didn't create it though the Republicans have perfected it. Every time they open their yap and that "Take our country back" nonsense spills out of it, that isn't an appeal to patriotism or to making the country a better place. It's an appeal to resentment, anger and ignorance.

Take our country back? From who? unsure.gif It was never only your country in the first place.

So who did Obama intend to "Take Back America" from in 2007? Do you find this as abhorrent as you do when Republicans say it? Then candidate Obama titled his speech the exact phrase you damned in your post. I am sure there is an excuse that it's okay for Obama in this instance, isn't there?

What about him giving a speech at the Take Back America conference in 2008? Upon further searching, it's actually Take Back the American Dream, but at this point we are splitting hairs, now aren't we? I don't see anything on that website supporting a Republican candidate....but I am sure there is nothing wrong with this one either. cry.gif
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akaCG
post Nov 5 2012, 07:07 PM
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QUOTE(scubatim @ Nov 5 2012, 02:17 PM) *
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Nov 5 2012, 11:34 AM) *
1} Do we really want the politics of revenge?

Don't be so Pollyannish. We already have the politics of revenge. Obama didn't create it though the Republicans have perfected it. Every time they open their yap and that "Take our country back" nonsense spills out of it, that isn't an appeal to patriotism or to making the country a better place. It's an appeal to resentment, anger and ignorance.

Take our country back? From who? unsure.gif It was never only your country in the first place.

So who did Obama intend to "Take Back America" from in 2007? ...
...

Here are a few more examples, for good measure.

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Paladin Elspeth
post Nov 5 2012, 08:07 PM
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QUOTE(trumpetplayer @ Nov 4 2012, 07:50 PM) *
QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Nov 4 2012, 07:21 PM) *
I have to say, so what?

One of John F. Kennedy's best sayings was, "Don't get mad; get even."

Maybe the booing had something to do with the veracity-challenged ad where Romney's camp was alleging that Jeep was taking existing jobs away from Americans by planning to build a plant in China, where the Chinese like to "Buy Chinese" (sound similar to "Buy American"?). The CEO of Chrysler refuted it, but the lie goes on and on. That gets Democrats angry and auto workers for Jeep upset unnecessarily.

People are wondering whether the GOP can successfully get their candidate elected without telling lies somewhere down the line. If the GOP candidate is so darn good, it would follow that lying about the other side would not be necessary.

Perhaps it was anger at Romney campaign tactics that spurred the booing. To which Obama evidently said, "Don't boo. Vote. Vote. Voting is the best revenge" to people who can't pay for ads to be spread across the airwaves directly refuting the spurious campaign ad.



Of course you would say that and make excuses. Had Romney or a Republican said that..well we all know that your response would be different. How can you tell a liberal is lying...their lips are moving.

If "of course" I "would say that," why do you bother to respond? And if you "all know" how I would respond if Romney or a Republican had said that, why do you even bother to read what I write? It wouldn't break my heart if you ignored me, really, and I would really prefer it to the snide comments you made.

You are making a lot of assumptions, TP. Romney & Company are saying plenty for which I take umbrage, thank you. But you will note that I did not make a sweeping generalization about "conservatives" as you did when referring to liberals.

The originator of this thread asked questions, and I responded to them. I am under no obligation to please you with my responses. You might try answering the questions with your own responses instead of merely sniping.

Now try to tell me that you are somehow more open-minded than I am, TP. dry.gif

Note to any other readers: It looks like the booing started when Obama mentioned when Willard "Mitt" Romney was running for the Senate and the President was talking about Clinton's investment in "ideas, innovations," and "in our infrastructure." Judging from the context, Romney criticized Clinton for that, and I would guess that Romney's op-ed column entitled "Let Detroit Go Bankrupt" put the icing on the cake.

And BoF is correct: Notice that the President was actually discouraging the booing when he brought up Romney's name, a convenient factoid that was some how disregarding because Obama said that "voting is the best revenge." Revenge for what? Probably the feeling that the rank-and-file have felt marginalized by Obama's opponent.

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Nov 5 2012, 08:35 PM
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Bikerdad
post Nov 5 2012, 09:49 PM
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I'd like to point out that the headline of the article amf linked over at Huffington Post (not known as a bastion of pro-Romney sentiment) is this:

Obama Tells Ohioans How To Get Back At Romney: 'Voting Is The Best Revenge' (VIDEO)


The eyes have it.


QUOTE(BoF)
There are some things that call for revenge. One of them is Mitch McConnell's bottling up most of Obama's proposals in the senate.
Yes, it was truly terrible of Mitch McConnell to have used The Force on all the Democratic Senators so they unaminously rejected Obama's budgets. In case you haven't noticed, the Democrats have controlled the Senate for the entirety of Obama's term. They had control of the House also for the first two years. So blaming Mitch McConnell is laughable. And getting revenge on Romney for what McConnell supposedly did? That's beyond laughable.

QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth)
Notice that the President was actually discouraging the booing when he brought up Romney's name, a convenient factoid that was some how disregarding because Obama said that "voting is the best revenge."
Disregarded by who?

This post has been edited by Bikerdad: Nov 5 2012, 09:52 PM
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