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nebraska29
post Dec 24 2013, 09:17 PM
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-How about an election 2014 section under "in the news"?

-Also, can we change "democrat debate" to "democratic debate"?

-Lastly, we need to change "libertarian debate" to "Mike the Libertarian's Libertarian debate."

Happy Holidays to one and all.
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Paladin Elspeth
post Dec 24 2013, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE(nebraska29 @ Dec 24 2013, 04:17 PM) *
-How about an election 2014 section under "in the news"?

-Also, can we change "democrat debate" to "democratic debate"?

-Lastly, we need to change "libertarian debate" to "Mike the Libertarian's Libertarian debate."

Happy Holidays to one and all.

I don't know that Mike is on long enough to initiate your third suggestion, but I'm down for the first two. After all, the other party is not "Republic." thumbsup.gif

Happy Holidays to you, too, and Merry Christmas in particular since it's tomorrow. santa.gif
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Dontreadonme
post Dec 24 2013, 10:34 PM
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QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Dec 24 2013, 04:55 PM) *
I don't know that Mike is on long enough to initiate your third suggestion, but I'm down for the first two. After all, the other party is not "Republic."


Interesting semantic point, but along that same line are you a Democrat or a Democratic?

This post has been edited by Dontreadonme: Dec 24 2013, 10:35 PM
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AuthorMusician
post Dec 25 2013, 12:57 PM
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QUOTE(Dontreadonme @ Dec 24 2013, 06:34 PM) *
QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Dec 24 2013, 04:55 PM) *
I don't know that Mike is on long enough to initiate your third suggestion, but I'm down for the first two. After all, the other party is not "Republic."


Interesting semantic point, but along that same line are you a Democrat or a Democratic?

Democrat is always a noun, while democratic is always an adjective. Republican is both a noun and an adjective, whereas republic is always a noun. The correct generic noun is democracy, not democrat, when talking about systems of government, and capitalization is not required or even promoted, as this tends to confuse generic nouns with specific and formal names.

So we have the Republican Party and the Democratic Party. The noun in use is Party, while Democratic and Republican are adjectives that further define what the hell anyone is talking about.

To call it the Democrat Party shows either ignorance or an intentional insult. However, it can be described as the Party of Democrats and all would be hunky-dory, but also wordy and clumsy. The correct and registered name is the Democratic Party.

The right way to do this is to pose the question as are you a Democrat or democratic? The answer to both is yes. I am a member of the Democratic Party and I am also politically oriented to be a democratic person. I believe in majority rule and the tethering of power abuse, such as the most recent misuse of the filibuster being stopped. I rather like our three-part Federal system with power balances. I am far less in favor of the House controlling the Senate, requiring super majorities in the Senate where the Constitution has not required them.

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Paladin Elspeth
post Dec 25 2013, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Dec 25 2013, 07:57 AM) *
QUOTE(Dontreadonme @ Dec 24 2013, 06:34 PM) *
QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Dec 24 2013, 04:55 PM) *
I don't know that Mike is on long enough to initiate your third suggestion, but I'm down for the first two. After all, the other party is not "Republic."


Interesting semantic point, but along that same line are you a Democrat or a Democratic?

Democrat is always a noun, while democratic is always an adjective. Republican is both a noun and an adjective, whereas republic is always a noun. The correct generic noun is democracy, not democrat, when talking about systems of government, and capitalization is not required or even promoted, as this tends to confuse generic nouns with specific and formal names.

So we have the Republican Party and the Democratic Party. The noun in use is Party, while Democratic and Republican are adjectives that further define what the hell anyone is talking about.

To call it the Democrat Party shows either ignorance or an intentional insult. However, it can be described as the Party of Democrats and all would be hunky-dory, but also wordy and clumsy. The correct and registered name is the Democratic Party.

The right way to do this is to pose the question as are you a Democrat or democratic? The answer to both is yes. I am a member of the Democratic Party and I am also politically oriented to be a democratic person. I believe in majority rule and the tethering of power abuse, such as the most recent misuse of the filibuster being stopped. I rather like our three-part Federal system with power balances. I am far less in favor of the House controlling the Senate, requiring super majorities in the Senate where the Constitution has not required them.

Couldn't have answered it better myself. Thanks, AM. flowers.gif
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Dontreadonme
post Dec 26 2013, 12:57 AM
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QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Dec 25 2013, 07:57 AM) *
The right way to do this is to pose the question as are you a Democrat or democratic?


Sure, except that one can be Democratic yet not a Democrat. It still begs the question, is the party-specific forum for Democrats, or for members of the Democratic Party? I don't care one way or the other, I'm simply intrigued by the lengths people in general go to describe labels about themselves and their political opponents.
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AuthorMusician
post Dec 26 2013, 02:29 PM
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QUOTE(Dontreadonme @ Dec 25 2013, 08:57 PM) *
QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Dec 25 2013, 07:57 AM) *
The right way to do this is to pose the question as are you a Democrat or democratic?


Sure, except that one can be Democratic yet not a Democrat. It still begs the question, is the party-specific forum for Democrats, or for members of the Democratic Party? I don't care one way or the other, I'm simply intrigued by the lengths people in general go to describe labels about themselves and their political opponents.

No, you can never be Democratic. You can be a Democrat, but no writer, not even most of the bad ones, capitalizes the adjective unless it lines up before Party. However, a person can be unaffiliated and democratic. A government can be democratic. A boss can be democratic, republican, or tyrannical.
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Gray Seal
post Dec 26 2013, 03:44 PM
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A boss can not be a democratic nor a republican. Such use of the words is nonsense. Both adjectives are used for groups not individuals. Governments are the group that can be described as democratic or republican.

--------------

Neither political party really stands for what their title implies. A strict democratic government would be determined totally on popular vote. Our republican government has lost its republican regional representation ideology though the primary idea of representation remains.

Having the country controlled by political parties has not worked very well. Political parties have their own power objectives which are frequently in opposition to the power of individuals. Political parties have their place but giving them special status as a group rather than recognition as voluntary associations of people is a poor idea. It is the same with unions. Collective bargaining is a protected constitutional right but unions should not be given separate sets of rules.

It would be more constructive here on ad.gif to have people label themselves with political philosophy rather than party affiliation. Giving Party such status here on ad.gif gives them too much credit. Claiming Party affiliation somewhat labels a person as a powerbroker rather than someone who has the ability of skeptical thought. Our two major parties are all about force, power, and control. I say this knowing that some here on ad.gif who have claimed such labels are capable to think which always makes me wonder why they would accept such a label? But, other times claiming to be a D or an R is totally appropriate as they do not have much more than cheerleading or propaganda for their particular gang. Such is not the best input for discussions here on ad.gif. It is tiresome and boring and it is such a shame such represents the real world of how the United States operates but it does explain why we are going down the toilet. Such a slow spiral but the flush is in progress.
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Paladin Elspeth
post Dec 27 2013, 12:30 AM
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The Democratic Party has been the "democratic party" not the DEMOCRAT Party for generations. It is tiresome to correct people on it. I belong, off and on, to the Democratic party, not the Democrat party, and am called a Democrat.

Those who label the party otherwise are either doing it out of ignorance (there's hope for them) or to insult the party with which they do not agree ideologically (which seems to be the more common reason).

There are plenty of epithets that we non-Republicans and non-Libertarians can use that are less than flattering. The reticence of some of us to use them as often as non-Democrats use "Democrat Party" has to do with a sense of what is polite. But as human beings, we too have the temptation to use epithets in place of "Republican" or the "Grand Old Party."

I don't think I need to elaborate on those epithets.
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Dontreadonme
post Dec 27 2013, 12:38 AM
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QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Dec 26 2013, 07:30 PM) *
The Democratic Party has been the "democratic party" not the DEMOCRAT Party for generations. It is tiresome to correct people on it. I belong, off and on, to the Democratic party, not the Democrat party, and am called a Democrat.


No disagreement. But it still could beg the question, are the party-specific forums for members of the Democratic Party, or for Democrats?

I second Gray Seal's idea and his foundation thereof.

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Curmudgeon
post Dec 27 2013, 03:08 AM
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QUOTE(Gray Seal @ Dec 26 2013, 10:44 AM) *
Giving Party such status here on ad.gif gives them too much credit. Claiming Party affiliation somewhat labels a person as a powerbroker rather than someone who has the ability of skeptical thought.

My party affiliation is listed as "Democrat" rather than "Democratic" because, as my wife pointed out to me, that is the choice Mike has given us if we wish to list a party affiliation. While I voted for a known Republican once, it was because he was a family friend that I trusted. When I first joined AD, I felt that my party affiliation was no-one's business. I had however been volunteering for several Democratic Party candidates over the years. I have been a union member continuously since 1966. (As a retiree, I carry a life membership.) By joining the party; I did not become a "powerbroker," rather I became a person who could more effectively work in local elections. To be a "Poll Watcher," for instance, one needs to be a member of a registered political party.

As a teenager, members of the Republican Party tried to recruit me with such promises as, "If elected to public office, you will always be able to vote your conscience as party leaders will never attempt to control how you vote."

Excerpted from a web search:
QUOTE
The Democratic Party was founded in 1792 by Thomas Jefferson. It was originally known as the party of the common man. It became the Democratic party in 1798.

The Republican Party was founded in the Northern states in 1854 by anti-slavery activists.

I have never heard a good explanation of how the younger of the two political parties garnered the label of "Grand Old Party."

Wikipedia lists over thirty "third parties" in what they concede in the introduction is an incomplete list. (The Coffee Party, I noticed, did not make the list.) People have been complaining about a two party system for as long as I can remember, but changing to a multi-party system which then needs to form coalitions in order to be able to govern really seems out of reach. Then again, Congress this year has effectively demonstrated that a two party system can still reach gridlock.

A state Congressman once told me:
QUOTE
Every complex problem has a simple solution...and it's usually wrong.

Politicians routinely schedule public meetings where the public is invited to ask questions or make comments. As a volunteer, you can have the opportunity to speak directly to a politician about what is on your mind. Letters to the editor are only read by the few people who still read them... Mail sent to Congress or the White House has a harder time getting through than it used to, but the e-mail links are easy to find. Whether this is a Democracy or a Republic is likely not as important as whether you vote, and whether you attempt to let elected officials know how and why you voted. Big Money is funding the campaigns, but on Election Nights they only count the votes to determine the winners.

-How about an election 2014 section under "in the news"?

There are likely to be no national races, but it might be interesting to have a place to tout candidates for Congress and the Senate, ask if Sarah Palin will run for a public office such as dogcatcher in the hopes of rebuilding her political career, etc.

-Also, can we change "democrat debate" to "democratic debate"?

Or how about, "Democratic Party Debate?"

On the job, I was always told, "Let people call you anything they want as long as it's not late for dinner."

If we actually made much use of the Party Specific debate sites, it might be worth quibbling over. As a party member however, I wonder how much good it does to air our laundry in a forum which can be read by the public in general. I am entertained, for instance, by the Republican Party News Networks (FOX and Rush Limbaugh) being willing to let the world know about the plans of Karl Rove, Sarah Palin, and other luminaries of the opposition party.

-Lastly, we need to change "libertarian debate" to "Mike the Libertarian's Libertarian debate."

QUOTE(Mike)
***I AM NOT A LIBERTARIAN*** ( link )

I was certain I had read that somewhere, but it led me to look at what Mike had posted in the Party Specific Debate sites... Jaime had closed a couple of threads due to age and inactivity, but noone has posted here in four years. Why bother to attempt to change the name?

In the end, learn what you can about the candidates. Remember to make the time to vote! Let elected officials know that you vote and what your opinions are.

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AuthorMusician
post Dec 27 2013, 01:53 PM
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QUOTE(Dontreadonme @ Dec 26 2013, 08:38 PM) *
QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Dec 26 2013, 07:30 PM) *
The Democratic Party has been the "democratic party" not the DEMOCRAT Party for generations. It is tiresome to correct people on it. I belong, off and on, to the Democratic party, not the Democrat party, and am called a Democrat.


No disagreement. But it still could beg the question, are the party-specific forums for members of the Democratic Party, or for Democrats?

I second Gray Seal's idea and his foundation thereof.

There is no difference between a member of the Democratic Party and a Democrat, other than number of words used to express the same thing. Gray Seal is simply confusing nouns with adjectives.

As for forum titles, how about:

Democratic Party (not Democrat Party)
Republican Party
Libertarian Party (not Liberty Party)

Democrats' Debate (one can be a democrat, meaning no party affiliation, and can have democratic political views)

Republicans' Debate

Libertarians' Debate (one can be a libertarian, meaning no party affiliation, and can have libertarian political views)

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Paladin Elspeth
post Dec 28 2013, 01:06 AM
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QUOTE(Dontreadonme @ Dec 26 2013, 07:38 PM) *
QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Dec 26 2013, 07:30 PM) *
The Democratic Party has been the "democratic party" not the DEMOCRAT Party for generations. It is tiresome to correct people on it. I belong, off and on, to the Democratic party, not the Democrat party, and am called a Democrat.


No disagreement. But it still could beg the question, are the party-specific forums for members of the Democratic Party, or for Democrats?

I second Gray Seal's idea and his foundation thereof.

Tell me, is it or is it not polite to refer to a person and his/her affiliation by their proper title, regardless of whether you share that affiliation or not? Why is it so hard to call it what it has been referred to for generations?

I remember a poster who criticized you for not spelling your username "Donttreadonme," in other words with an extra "T." I also remember your response. Is it too much to call one political party what it had been called for generations before Ronald Reagan and his bunch started screwing with the name? Really? mellow.gif

And, for the record, I asked Mike about changing it to Democratic forum and Democratic back in 2004. So this is nothing new.

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AuthorMusician
post Dec 28 2013, 03:36 AM
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QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Dec 27 2013, 09:06 PM) *
QUOTE(Dontreadonme @ Dec 26 2013, 07:38 PM) *
QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Dec 26 2013, 07:30 PM) *
The Democratic Party has been the "democratic party" not the DEMOCRAT Party for generations. It is tiresome to correct people on it. I belong, off and on, to the Democratic party, not the Democrat party, and am called a Democrat.


No disagreement. But it still could beg the question, are the party-specific forums for members of the Democratic Party, or for Democrats?

I second Gray Seal's idea and his foundation thereof.

Tell me, is it or is it not polite to refer to a person and his/her affiliation by their proper title, regardless of whether you share that affiliation or not? Why is it so hard to call it what it has been referred to for generations?

I remember a poster who criticized you for not spelling your username "Donttreadonme," in other words with an extra "T." I also remember your response. Is it too much to call one political party what it had been called for generations before Ronald Reagan and his bunch started screwing with the name? Really? mellow.gif

And, for the record, I asked Mike about changing it to Democratic forum and Democratic back in 2004. So this is nothing new.

I think this is the very crux of the intentional misuse of the name. Those who pretend that it doesn't have anything to do with cutesy political pablum play a coy game, hoping to get a rise out of us.

Flick them. It is, and always has been, the Democratic Party. If those others have a problem with it, well, take it up with their gods or somebody who really gives a snot. That era is over.

Meanwhile, Republicans seem to be thinking that Democrats will lose the 2014 midterms big time due to their (Republicans') so-called Obamacare, and so they (Republicans) don't have to do anything. Not a blessed thing, nothing at freaking all, except maybe play to that shrinking base.

Except that's almost a year away, and people are liking what they are seeing with ACA. Oh well, too bad, better luck in about 20 or 30 years, maybe never. Bullheaded parties don't last long. We members of the Democratic Party knew when to change and how to change. It wasn't easy, but we pulled it off. And we got the voter demographics to back us up.

You don't win elections without attracting voters. Pretty simple political science 101 stuff. In 2010 it was a bunch of con-jobs. It won't work in 2014. (Twitter, you know, also 99% going on, still, and a general realization that the GOP is against most of us.)

Heh, and so we argue about forum titles. Meh.

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nighttimer
post Dec 28 2013, 10:39 AM
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Question: What's the point to this debate?

The party-specific forums are dead. There is one---count 'em--ONE---thread in the Democrat or Democratic or Call Me What You Want forum and with a whopping two replies it ain't much of one (though I guess it will win in the Best Of awards by default).

Click on the Libertarian Debate and the most "recent" one is over four years old which is still better than the Republican and Independent/3rd Party Forums where the message you get when you click on it is "No topics were found. This is either because there are no topics in this forum, or the topics are older than the current age cut-off."

To make party-specific forums work the first necessity are party-specific debaters. They aren't here. Round these parts we call that a hint. ermm.gif

You want three suggestions? Dump the Democrat Debate. Get Rid of the Republican Debate. Lose the Libertarian Debate. Ignore the Independent/3rd Party Debate.

That's four suggestions, not three. But since suggestions are all they are and will be ignored, it doesn't really matter how many there are. dry.gif

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Dontreadonme
post Dec 28 2013, 01:09 PM
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QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Dec 27 2013, 08:06 PM) *
Tell me, is it or is it not polite to refer to a person and his/her affiliation by their proper title, regardless of whether you share that affiliation or not? Why is it so hard to call it what it has been referred to for generations?


Sure, which is why I don't call it the Democrat Party. You're presuming that I have a problem with what the forum is called. I could care less. I merely find the 'offense' interesting, when it can't be determined by the participants whether the forum is for Democrats or members of the Democratic Party.
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Paladin Elspeth
post Dec 28 2013, 07:49 PM
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QUOTE(Dontreadonme @ Dec 28 2013, 08:09 AM) *
QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Dec 27 2013, 08:06 PM) *
Tell me, is it or is it not polite to refer to a person and his/her affiliation by their proper title, regardless of whether you share that affiliation or not? Why is it so hard to call it what it has been referred to for generations?


Sure, which is why I don't call it the Democrat Party. You're presuming that I have a problem with what the forum is called. I could care less. I merely find the 'offense' interesting, when it can't be determined by the participants whether the forum is for Democrats or members of the Democratic Party.

Thank you for clarifying.
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nebraska29
post Dec 29 2013, 09:52 PM
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QUOTE(Dontreadonme @ Dec 28 2013, 07:09 AM) *
QUOTE(Paladin Elspeth @ Dec 27 2013, 08:06 PM) *
Tell me, is it or is it not polite to refer to a person and his/her affiliation by their proper title, regardless of whether you share that affiliation or not? Why is it so hard to call it what it has been referred to for generations?


Sure, which is why I don't call it the Democrat Party. You're presuming that I have a problem with what the forum is called. I could care less. I merely find the 'offense' interesting, when it can't be determined by the participants whether the forum is for Democrats or members of the Democratic Party.



Democratic debate or democrats debate is fine. And yes, using "democrat party" is an insult.
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Dontreadonme
post Dec 29 2013, 09:58 PM
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QUOTE(nebraska29 @ Dec 29 2013, 04:52 PM) *
And yes, using "democrat party" is an insult.


Did I miss where somebody [anybody?] was arguing against that point?
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Gray Seal
post Jan 2 2014, 04:29 PM
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I was questioned about my use of democratic by nighttimer in a another thread. I do find this political correctness of using the correct term in the right situation annoying with confused rules. The opening post here was asking for a section to be called a democratic debate. I presume this meant that it was a debate for democratics? Now I am told that referring to members of the Democratic Party to be democratics is being rude.

Please give some example sentences using the terms democrat and democratic in acceptable manners. I am not understanding why either can be insulting or acceptable depending on how they are used. I was attempting to avoid insult by eliminating democrat from my vocabulary but that is not going to work.
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