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[turnea]

What does assimilation into "American culture" mean? Is is beneficial for Americans of different ethnic/racial/national backgrounds? Who are the "hyphenated-Americans" harming?

[GoAmerica]

What does assimilation into "American culture" mean?

It means to adapt to a culture and be able to function within it and blend in with the rest of the populace.

Is is beneficial for Americans of different ethnic/racial/national backgrounds?

No. With a person of a different society, say a muslim society, it would be hard to adapt to American culture, which is stereotypically drugs & alcohol, which are not seen in Muslim society. For example, Muslims are banned from drinking alcohol as part of their religion, so that would make it hard for them to adapt in American society because every city in this nation has a bar. So, in other words, it would be very difficult for a muslim to adapt to American society.

This post has been edited by goamerica: Aug 26 2003, 02:45 AM

[Bill55AZ]

No. With a person of a different society, say a muslim society, it would be hard to adapt to American culture, which is stereotypically drugs & alcohol, which are not seen in Muslim society. For example, Muslims are banned from drinking alcohol as part of their religion, so that would make it hard for them to adapt in American society because every city in this nation has a bar. So, in other words, it would be very difficult for a muslim to adapt to American society.

I guess it depends on what kind of culture exists in the crowd you run with, but I know lots of people who never use drugs or alcohol, and a bunch more who rarely use alcohol, and none of them are Muslim. So I think "stereotypically" is incorrect. Alcohol and drugs are not as big a part of American society as the media likes to portray.
You can function within a society without participating fully in it, or attempting to blend in to the point that others can't tell you are different. Total assimilation does not have to occur. Surely rural Americans in the western states (exclude the bigger cities on the west coast) are not anywhere near assimilated to the culture as might be seen in the larger eastern cities.

[Alan Wood]

What does assimilation into "American culture" mean?

I see this as as the absorbing of other culturally acceptable practises and the people who practice them.

America has no indigenous culture as such.
Like us down here it is a 'mish-mash' of cultures we understand as Australian.
We are Nations that did not evolve.
We were born by caesarean section prematurely.We are both suffering the concequences of that premature birth and seeking to find what REALLY IS our culture so we can set the standard.

In the meantime we are painfully evolving by assimilating others into the convoluted culture we call ours.

Is it beneficial for Americans of different ethnic/racial/national backgrounds?

Americans, like us, are from different backgrounds and were assimilated.

Why should it be any different now?, is it the old nutmeg of Mc Arthyism rearing it's ugly head post 9/11?

Regards.........Alan

[Paladin Elspeth]

American culture is like a Whitman's Sampler. We're all American (chocolate), but some parts are chewy, some are definitely nutty, and some pieces we just don't like. But we are in this box together and, unlike chocolates, the sooner we learn to get along, the better.

If people want to distinguish themselves as being hyphenated-Americans, fine. As long as that hyphenation doesn't harm other people. It's perfectly fine to be of Irish, African, Chinese, Italian extraction, etc.; as a matter of fact, it makes for less boring, yummier supper times. Pizza, anyone?

This post has been edited by Paladin Elspeth: Aug 26 2003, 06:58 AM

[Rancid Uncle]

Modern America is all about letting you be different. It's amazing how far we've come since the Puritans lynch mobbed the Quakers for being non-violent. Assimilating into American culture only means you think you're American; it's incredibly easy. Unless you live in a rural part of Middle America that has no Mosques, Latvian Orthodox churches, or synagogues you can practice most of your customs. Calling yourself an Italian or Japanese American doesn't change the fact you are an America.

[Mrs. Pigpen]

What does assimilation into "American culture" mean? Learning the English language and calling yourself an American

Is it beneficial for Americans of different ethnic/racial/national backgrounds?
I think it's beneficial for every American that those migrating here learn the language. For those who have been born in America, not "assimilating" is rather silly and not beneficial for the country as a whole.

Who are the "hyphenated-Americans" harming? No one. It is disingenuous to call yourself a hyphenated-anything, however, if you are actually devoid of that culture. I don't even call myself an Italian/Swiss American, yet I am first and second generation American (and speak functional Italian). Therefore, I don't understand the distinction of hispanic or African/ American, unless it's for some sort of advantage. My children are technically hispanic, so I checked the hispanic box on his elementary school admission slip, because it was required.

This post has been edited by Mrs. Pigpen: Aug 26 2003, 02:59 PM

[Andyman783]

Assimilation, as it is defined, is a subtle part of our society. While Americans may conform to basic norms and accepted practices, it subsequently provides its citizens with more freedom than any other country in the world enjoys. Assimilation is not the cumbersome reality that it once was. America is founded on its citizens and their beliefs; as fairly small cultures and groups of people come to America and conform to the general constraints of our country, America as a whole begins to assimilate to broad foundation, its citizens.

[turnea]

I don't understand the distinction of hispanic or African/ American, unless it's for some sort of advantage. My children are technically hispanic, so I checked the hispanic box on his elementary school admission slip, because it was required.

As far as I can tell african-americans do so only as a descriptive term. To set themselves apart from other Americans. A person may describe his/herself as a southern-american (or Southerner) for instance. This is usually only done to give a vague idea about the background of the person and give an idea as to what some of the unique (relative, there are plenty of southerners) of that are. Such terms play on stereotypes certainly, but in some cases the stereotype has some valid similarities to a person's qualities. Ideally, we would give each introduction to an individual the amount of personal attention necessary to get past this. But we don't

[pheeler]

It is disingenuous to call yourself a hyphenated-anything, however, if you are actually devoid of that culture.

I agree, but I think that most people who identify themselves as hyphenated-Americans do so because they want to retain part of the culture they identify with. I have never been to Ireland and know nothing of its culture, so when I say that I'm Irish it doesn't feel convincing to me, although I look mostly Irish and English. But I was raised in an environment of Native American culture, so I feel most comfortable identifying myself as Native American, though by blood I'm only about an eighth. Self identification is less about color and more about culture, so hyphenating your nationality is just a way to keep a hold on something you find valuable about your heritage, in the same way that Southerners or New Yorkers take pride in theirs.

It seems to me that African-Americans identify themselves as such because many of them have had similar life experiences of racism and discrimination. And, though the modern African-American culture may not be "African," it is certainly distinct from other cultures.

This post has been edited by pheeler: Sep 3 2003, 11:31 PM

[GoAmerica]

an ethnic American, such as a Hispanic American, trying to assimilate into American culture, would be hard because of prejudice.

They are constatly harrassed because of prejudice because they are hispanic and the average person would say it would be because they are Hispanic, so they must be trouble

This post has been edited by goamerica: Sep 4 2003, 03:17 AM

[Cephus]

No. With a person of a different society, say a muslim society, it would be hard to adapt to American culture, which is stereotypically drugs & alcohol, which are not seen in Muslim society. For example, Muslims are banned from drinking alcohol as part of their religion, so that would make it hard for them to adapt in American society because every city in this nation has a bar. So, in other words, it would be very difficult for a muslim to adapt to American society.

But of course, Muslims adapt to American culture every day. Just because there is a bar doesn't mean you have to go in and drink. There are bars all over the place here but I haven't had a drink of alcohol in 17 years.

an ethnic American, such as a Hispanic American, trying to assimilate into American culture, would be hard because of prejudice.

In many cases, most I'd say, prejudice isn't a factor for those who attempt to fit in. Those who insist on speaking only Spanish and maintaining a 100% hispanic lifestyle should expect prejudice because they *ARE* outside of the culture they choose to live in. They have no one to blame but themselves. You simply don't find the kind of prejudice and racism against enculturated hispanics that you do with those who purposely refuse to work within their adopted culture.

Andyman783 writes:

Assimilation, as it is defined, is a subtle part of our society. While Americans may conform to basic norms and accepted practices, it subsequently provides its citizens with more freedom than any other country in the world enjoys. Assimilation is not the cumbersome reality that it once was. America is founded on its citizens and their beliefs; as fairly small cultures and groups of people come to America and conform to the general constraints of our country, America as a whole begins to assimilate to broad foundation, its citizens.

Assimilation is part of *EVERY* society. If you went to France and insisted that you were going to speak English only, called yourself American-French, wanted them to cater to you and your 'culture', they'd laugh at you, just like virtually every other country on the face of the planet would. By living in and becoming a citizen of a country, you agree by social contract to respect their laws and culture. Trying to maintain another entire culture while ignoring the native culture is an insult and a slap in the face to the people of your adopted (or in many cases, natural) homeland. That's not to say you can't keep portions of your old culture, your religious beliefs, your holidays, celebrations, etc. It does mean that you shouldn't be a hyphenated-American, you should simply be an American.

[JonBon]

From Dictionary.com -

Assimilation - The process whereby a minority group gradually adopts the customs and attitudes of the prevailing culture.

Like what the Borg do in Star Trek...?

The point here is that assimilation is not necessary for minority groups to function and participate within a given society. How would a Sikh removing his turban, or an Italian Americanising his name, or a Jew abandoning kosher benefit the participation of that particular group within society?

Surely diversity is a wonderful thing for any society to have.

[kmsouthern]

What does assimilation into "American culture" mean?

From this thread alone, it's obvious that it means different things to different people. To me, when I think of assimilation, I get a negative connotation because our history has such a presence of FORCED assimilation. Assimilation, of course, does not HAVE to be negative, but I think the average person's definition of assimilation (in my experience anyway) seems to include some removal of one's "home" or "original" culture and replacing it with some "American" idea/cultural belief, which I don't find to be a universally positive/beneficial thing to anyone but those who are offended by cultural differences.

People do not have to learn English to live in the United States (we don't have a national language, and until we do, it's not some sort of requirement). Yes, the majority of people speak English and it would certainly be beneficial to learn English to get by, but it's not required and I find it sad that people who are trying to learn English (which is not easy when it's not your first language and you're trying to learn it as an adult) are chastized left and right - or even those who aren't trying...the only person it's hurting is the person who doesn't learn the language, IMO.

Another example is cultural traditions/ways-of-life...I don't think it's at all necessary or even beneficial for people coming to the U.S. to replace their old customs with "American" ones...if a person wants to celebrate the Chinese New Year instead of our traditional New Year, what's the harm? What's the harm in Africans wearing daishikis instead of "American" dresses or clothes? Why should everyone who moves here have to take on all of these "American" ways? Obviously abiding by American LAWS is necessary, but that is not assimilation, that's being a law-abiding citizen. When we start expecting people to leave their culture in their respective countries-of-origin, we start losing the beautiful cultural differences that make our country so wonderful and unique.

As for the hyphenated American aspect, I see absolutely nothing wrong with that - the majority of people that I know who use hyphenated cultural references (African American, Mexican American, etc. - and really I don't know anyone who actually hyphenates it anymore) do so as a way of feeling connected to ones roots...many non-whites feel as if they HAVE to assimilate in ways they don't think are necessary in order to "get by" and not be considered outcasts, so they feel as if they are "losing" that connection without the hyphenated description. For example, blacks are not allowed to wear their hair in cornrows in MANY professional jobs? Why? It isn't considered "professional", but why? I would most certainly be allowed to wear my hair in a french braid (if I so chose) in a professional workplace, so what's the difference...non-blacks rarely realize just what it takes to get the average (typical) black person's hair to "conform" to white standards of "professionalism". That is just one example (one that has always bothered and perplexed me). Calling yourself African American is a way to feel connected and even a "bonding" so-to-speak. European Americans don't call themselves European Americans because they are the majority and don't have the same need to find that "common ground" because they are represented everywhere. I am Hungarian, German, Scots Irish, and Lithuanian but I don't call myself all of those things because, typically, white folks whose families have been in the U.S. for a few generations, don't retain much of their cultural mores/traditions and don't even think about their culture on a daily basis because they don't have to...blacks are reminded day in and day our that that are black (different)...sometimes the hyphenated names are a source of empowerment for a group of people that have been historically discriminated against because of their "culture", if that makes sense.

Assimilation is a tricky subject because it means so many different things on so many different levels. I enjoy the diversity that exists within our countries borders and I hope "unnecessary" assimilation doesn't eradicate those differences. Having a "mixed salad" of different cultures all together is a WONDERFUL thing, IMO.

[Cephus]

People do not have to learn English to live in the United States (we don't have a national language, and until we do, it's not some sort of requirement).  Yes, the majority of people speak English and it would certainly be beneficial to learn English to get by, but it's not required and I find it sad that people who are trying to learn English (which is not easy when it's not your first language and you're trying to learn it as an adult) are chastized left and right - or even those who aren't trying...the only person it's hurting is the person who doesn't learn the language, IMO.

Actually, in California, English is the official state language. Almost as soon as it was enacted into law, the minority advocates started suing the crap out of everyone saying it was soooo unfair that we actually expect people to learn English. The law has been stymied for years because of these moron lawyers and their lawsuits.

As far as I'm concerned, everything should be printed in English only and anyone who can't read it is just out of luck.

[turnea]

The point here is that assimilation is not necessary for minority groups to function and participate within a given society. How would a Sikh removing his turban, or an Italian Americanising his name, or a Jew abandoning kosher benefit the participation of that particular group within society?

A remarkably pertinent example seeing as said Sikh is about to be ordered to remove his turban(not here of course...)

I think it has been generally agreed that the group Americans are most interested in the assimilation debate is Mexican immigrants. My hope is that we can come to a genuine understanding of the situation and avoid the mistake France is making.

I believe this fixation with the English language is key to that...

In many cases, most I'd say, prejudice isn't a factor for those who attempt to fit in. Those who insist on speaking only Spanish and maintaining a 100% hispanic lifestyle should expect prejudice because they *ARE* outside of the culture they choose to live in. They have no one to blame but themselves. You simply don't find the kind of prejudice and racism against enculturated hispanics that you do with those who purposely refuse to work within their adopted culture.

Pardon? So just because a person is outside what you perceive as the American culture means they are due racism and prejudice, all I'm going to say on that one...

I enjoy the diversity that exists within our countries borders and I hope "unnecessary" assimilation doesn't eradicate those differences.

I think that is exactly the key. Our society must decide what unneeded assimilation is. I would argue learning the English language is not always necessary and should not be included into "assimilating" into American culture.

In fact the danger in putting undue pressure on immigrants to America far outweighs concerns about "assimilation" period.

This post has been edited by turnea: Feb 17 2004, 02:40 AM

[Jaime]

CLOSED.

Found on oldie, did you, turnea?

Feel free to start something fresh.