I've always felt I was maybe a bit odd because I've never seen what the attraction to babies is - even those belonging to my siblings have always struck me as being a bit grotesque. I can't help but imagining what they'd be like if they were "full-sized" without changing any of their bizarre proportions - this six-foot thing with an enormous drooling head, mongoloid features, a soft fat body and stubby limbs with pudgy digits, reeking of sour milk and diarrhea. I'd run screaming. The fact that such a creature is small doesn't, for me, make them any more "adorable" - just easier to get away from. And the thought of holding one - yeek. It's like cradling a warm giant slug - only smellier and, usually, stickier.

And don't get me started on how damned noisy they are.

So, I was somewhat heartened when I saw these comments in Jaime's introduction thread:


Granted, neither is quite saying that they find other people's babies as hideous as I do, but I can at least agree with hayleyanne that animals are far "cuter".

Does anyone else around here find these dear little things as off-putting as I do?

Depends on what age they are and how they are behaving at the time LOL- when they are first born, if they are yours, you love them because they are yours, but they don't get cute till about 6 months old LOL- now, 2 years old, they are just adorable little cuties -

Babies at first, aren't all that messy though Wertz- they get messy later- when they are about 1 year old and you are still changing diapers- that is when it is gross. But they are really cute at that age- as long as they are not pooping up a storm LOL

My boy, man, is that child LOUD- he enjoys being loud. Of course, he is doubly loud when I am on the phone. My girl tends to whine.

I love them to death, and all that annoying stuff makes up for it when they want to cuddle up to you and ask for "huggies and kissies from Papa"-

You know, I have been a bit of a hedonist in my life, not ashamed of anything I have done, and frequently have been a bit of a "wild child", global travelling and having fun jumping out of airplanes and racing cars and motorcycles. Still, as fun as all that was, I find being a father much more fulfilling and rewarding.

And my kids, one almost five, the other just turning two, love you unconditionally, and you can see it and feel it.

So the wet, smelly times, the puking in the middle of the night, is all worth it when they say "I love you papa"- or, in the cases of my children, little bi-lingual smarties, making thier dad feel stupid as usual "Ya tshbeh lublu papa"

Since I am 'in training' to be a father at the moment I have had the chance to meet quite a few babies of late (we're also in the grips of a minor baby boom here in Denmark) and I have to say that I have become quite fond of the little 'slugs'.

I think, for my part, this is because as I've grown older, I've stopped taking myself so seriously and if a baby burps up a stream of hot slimy milk down my shirt I'm not too bothered because I've done the same thing myself plenty of times and its no big deal to just change my shirt...

Even the noise doesn't set my teeth on edge as it used to

I'm still convinced however, that other people's children are the bane of our lives, and in my experience, its not the baby's but the parents who are strenuous to be around.

Well, I'll be Wertz-- you and I have found agreement on something.

I do believe that there are "baby" people and those that are NOT. Like Cruising said, when it is your own baby, it changes everything, but of course only with respect to your own baby.

I am sorry, but when people bring babies along to parties and restaurants and errr movies-- , it causes commotion and makes things so hectic, and, well noisy . . .




This is an understatement Wertz. As far as I am concerned, this is the big problem with babies. They cry whenever, wherever, and for hours at a time. I'll never forget when I took my 4 month old daughter with me to get my hair highlighted. Big Mistake. Of course she was fine until all the stuff was on my hair-- and then she started crying and would not stop for anything. The people at the salon had to walk her in her stroller, pick her up etc. Needless to say, they hated me!

Then of course, there is the whole sleeping at night thing. My little one did not sleep more than 3 hours at a time until she was 8 months old. We were sleeping at my parents house and my husband and I woke up at like 6 am in a sheer panic (thinking something awful had happened) because she had never slept through the night before.

I am a true believer in God having a hand in the whole bonding with your baby thing (or at least very strong natural instinct ) otherwise it makes no sense that you adore that little creature that crys all the time, doesn't sleep and well, all those diapers .. . . ..

Now that my daughter is a "tween" things are a lot better. But I suspect this is just the calm before the storm of adolescence!

I love this topic! My view of babies has changed remarkably within the past seven years. When I became pregnant with my first, I didn't like babies at all. In fact, though I had been a babysitter in my teens, I specifically baby-sat only children over the age of three. Back then, I thought babies were UGLY....well, with the exception of my own, of course.

By the birth of my second, I liked babies well enough, but never went gah-gah over them (pun intended). They were nice enough, if I didn't have to be around one for too long.

Now, I think my biological clock is ticking because I love babies and can't get enough of them. Fortunately, I use a type of birth control that is semi-permanent and must be removed by a doctor. That saves me!

Hmmmmmm, some interesting poll options! I have to say I am a TOTAL baby person - always have been. I can't explain it really, I just love babies.

I do think their actual physical appearance is along the lines of 'bizarre' when they are newborns (usually), but I still think they're cute as can be most of the time.

Now, of course I'm a bit biased, but I remember when my daughter was born thinking she was way too cute to be a newborn. When other people said the same thing, I figured it wasn't just me - you're lucky I'm not sharing a picture right now

I love kids and babies in general and they generally feel the same way about me. Maybe that's part of why I like them as much as I do - they've always taken to me (from the time I was about 9 when I started babysitting).

Wertz, I think you have a predisposition against innocence.

I love babies. Although when newborn they aren't all that cute, once they get a bit older they are adorable. I love to talk to babies and play with them. They are just so innocent.

Of course, I had the advantage of having the two most beautiful, smartest, quietest kids in the world. As babies, my kids slept through the night and were well behaved when we took them places. I must have done something right...

For some strange reason, children (and animals) have a fascination with me. I can never get them to leave me alone, even when I'm doing something else. I think I exude childlike innocence...Yeah, that's it.

I've never seen a baby lick their own (or their neighbor's) butt or eat their own vomit. Babies have that over pets, anyway.

I think one reason people have such a strong urge to take care of babies is because little newborns (especially) look so distressed. I mean they're soooo tiny and uncomfortable-looking and veiny-headed and spastic and oblivious. I used to joke with my two older boys (9 YO & 6 YO) about how their newborn baby brother was in the "iron lung" stage because the little guy really was as helpless as near-comatose quadriplegic at that age.

It takes them a while to get cute, just like under-cooked looking puppies & kittens - blind and squirmy like fuzzy slugs.

One thing little babies have over older ones is that when a little baby spits up, its just some milk gunk. But when they're older, it's actual vomit, which is much slimier and stinkier.

I voted "somewhere in between". I always thought I was a freak because I never had the whole "mommy urge"...until it was too late to do anything about it, anyway. I never babysat, and when I was left alone with a colicky, asthmatic infant cousin one memorable time, I thought I would go insane from the caterwauling. I'm ambivalent toward the little stinky darlings. I'll usually beg off from the offers to hold a friend's baby, and make the usual complimentary noises when someone shares pictures of their offspring.

I've always wondered if a woman's gag reflex is somehow genetically put on hold for the first few years of her baby's life.

What's really freaky, Wertz, is that last night on 60 Minutes, they did a story about birth defects among the Amish*, and there was a 20-something female who was the equivalent of an 8 month old infant; she couldn't even sit up on her own...like you said:

*years of inbreeding

Yeah, I have that same issue, though I figure it's because I exude a childlike childishness

Put me down for pro-baby. I love kids.

As I see it most people get progressively worse when they get older, until age forty or so when things can go either way.

I love babies as well... especially considering we will be having our second one this month some time soon.

I don't know about the rest of you but once I had my first child I changed as a person, and for the better. Knowing that I had to provide for my child I became far more responsible than I had been before.

Not trying to knock anyone, but I think that those who say they don't want children are somewhat selfish. Adults that I know personally that have never had children act like children themselves in certain aspects of life. It's really funny to see a grown man pout. You here alot of excuses from people who have never had children or raised them, such as... so and so made me do it, It wasn't my fault, or 'they did it too' arguments.

Same here, Sleeper.

Congratulations (in advance) on number two!!

I couldn't let this go without comment. Some of us made a conscious decision not to replicate ourselves in the form of children. People who don't want children are not automatically selfish, and as for the "making excuses" part, bunk. Every person who chooses not to have children did so for a reason. It may not be a reason you'd necessary agree with or feel is a valid one, but that hardly matters. Plenty of healthy, functional adults don't feel the need to "be fruitful and multiply". On the other hand, plenty of immature, irresponsible, abusive, selfish, self-centered people DO have kids.

Please don't lump all childless people into one narrow, negative stereotype.

If you notice I proceeded my statement with. "I'm not trying to knock anyone" This is from my personal experience. And I will state that EVERY single person I have known who chose not to have children or raise them(as Wertz has done) are selfish. This statement is based off the people I have known. As for the general population, who knows.

Something else about people who have children... they can tend to let things roll off their back and not effect them instead of getting offended so easily...

For me, I think they need to be at least three before they start approaching cuteness.



I know! That's one of the things that prompted me to start this thread.


My partner and I kinda cheated - we fostered out kids when they were adolescents, thus avoiding the whole infant-toddler-tween years. But, yeah, teenagers are no joy ride.






Ahhhh - so you like to corrupt innocence: "helloo, baby... hellooo - the right is goood... es it is - the left is baaad, innit? innit? yeeesss..."



That's unsettling.



I think you're right to a large extent. A similar sense of responsibility can arise from, say, caring for an elderly parent or grandparent - or even just being sensitive to the feelings of a partner within a relationship. But with raising a kid, it's like your whole life becomes some sort of model. You're being observed - and often copied (or, worse, reacted to) - constantly. It's a bit scary.

By the same token, though, I think there are a lot of irresponsible parents out there or people who just aren't equipped to be parents (try working in a theme park for a few months!) and that the "change" isn't necessarily automatic.

Good luck with the new one, btw!

Also I agree with Wetrz that there are a ton of bafoons out there who have become parents. Most of them because they are simply too stupid to use birth control. And don't even get me started on the welfare baby subject.... *grumble*

For the record, I do not ever recall using words to the effect of "the Left is bad" or even "the Right is good". Babies don't understand such nuance. Certain views are "wrong" for sure I've used, but not bad.

My daughter was born cotemperaneously with Newt Gingrinch's "Contract with America" (October 1994). She's been on the straight and narrow ever since.

Does anyone else around here find these dear little things as off-putting as I do?

A little of both. Babies are "cute" from a safe distance.

Ugliness depends on context. When a parent or parents take a crying baby into a movie theater, I find that "off-putting." The fault, however, lies with parent--not the baby. As the sayng goes, "drunks drink" and one could add "babies cry."

If parents don't want to get a babysitter, they should wait for the video.

Uh huh. So, you think my making a comment about your generalization is "getting offended"? Hmm, does that mean that people who have children are quicker to pass judgment?

Ah. Well, children are very foreign to me. I never really was one. But I know they are an important part of the ecosystem... - Count Olaf from Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events.

Babies don't interest me at all, and the aformentioned quote reflects how I feel about children. They are very foreign to me, and my own childhood wasn't exactly peachy, so perhaps that's a part of where that comes from.

It doesn't mean that I have an active dislike for children, but I don't know how to interact with them very well, and I don't want any of my own. I just don't have that desire, and I can readily admit that some of the reasons for that decision are selfish and some are not. I like my free time, and I need extended periods of solitude for my peace of mind. Children are very needy, and they create a stress that I just don't want to deal with. If that's selfish, so be it. Everybody is selfish in one way or another, and my choice to not procreate hasn't harmed another human being.

I've also known that I didn't want to have children since I was little more than a child myself. There are genetic issues that I don't want to pass on, and I don't think that's selfish at all. I think my unborn offspring would thank me for that decision which has been well thought out for a long, long time.

Besides...I have pugs, and that's all that I need.

Actually you are right... cause if something is broken in the house... who do the parents look at first!!

I believe those who make the conscious decision to NOT have babies are very UNSELFISH- because they have overcome the biological need to realize that they don't NEED to be parents in an over-populated world.

Childrearing is not for everyone- hat's off to those that realize it before it is too late!

Wertz, I totally agree. Babies are ugly and totally weird. I never ever understood people who were like "So and so's baby is sooooo cute!" Or when people told stories about their kids, or asked me if I wanted to hold the baby. It just doesn't make any sense to me. My sister had a baby a few years ago, and we had a family reunion last summer where all the relatives just couldn't get enough of the thing. I didn't understand, especially as I think this baby is especially unattractive and not all that bright. My family cooed so much when we watched the baby eat a peach....all by itself. As if eating isn't a normal function...

That being said, a friend of mine has a toddler, and I think they're kinda cute if they didn't scream and cry for no reason.

I also sympathise with Cyan's sentiments of babies as foreign creatures. I never really know what to do around them, and I think they only get interesting and mildly tolerable around the age of 5-6....I don't really ever want children, but I have a hopefully long life ahead of me, so who knows what Ill think in ten years? However, I dont think much will change between then and now, and Im more likely to have a child mostly because my partner would want one than for my own desire. If I do decide to have children on my own, I would most likely adopt.

And yeah, Ill be honest, the reasons are "selfish". I honestly don't see what's wrong with that, and why I should be seen as "selfish" because I want a good night's sleep and to have some free time.

I believe those who make the conscious decision to NOT have babies are very UNSELFISH- because they have overcome the biological need to realize that they don't NEED to be parents in an over-populated world.

Childrearing is not for everyone- hat's off to those that realize it before it is too late!

CR,

Cool, I get a gold star! Could have married Mary and died, died, died. Two Catholics without a clue = houseful of kids without decent support. I left that running, not walking, and did not look back. Well, not too often. Mary was a looker, dang it. She dug motorcycles and Steppenwolf. Fudge! But back then it looked like being doomed to minimum wage work, not good for starting families.

Then through life, I couldn't justify having kids. It always seemed that jobs would evaporate, and I'd have to go chasing around the country trying to find something. That's a crazy maker for kids, I think, especially once in school. But then the military brats I've met seem okay enough, yet I also sense some deep stuff going on under the covers.

I remember the feelings when a childhood buddy had to leave. We were in the second grade, and that just sucked raw taconite.

I'm not going to vote if I like kids or not. Sometimes I do, sometimes I really don't, and it doesn't matter what the age of the kid is. Someday (or lifetime) I hope to get the Zen master's take on it, where if a baby shows up at the doorstep, abandoned for some reason, the reaction is, "Great! A new challenge and adventure!" Don't think I'm anywhere near that acceptance of new responsibility with joy and enthusiasm.

Babies do stink though. Newborns look horrible! But then the grip of a little one on the finger, and the ancient connection of generations seems to swell up. Think I could come to be a baby person down the road a ways. Maybe a long ways.

Maybe in an agricultural society on a different planet . . . always wanted to be a farmer

Raised 2 of them, both cute enough, but nowhere near as beautiful or as smart as the grandchilden, which is the real reward for having children....

Sometimes, on rare occasion, I even see someone else's child or grandchild that is as cute as mine.

When you have kids, you have less single friends or couple friends without kids - we have about 3 couple friends we see regularly with kids, and I think they are pretty darn cute, and pretty well behaved as well (we are friends because we have parenting practices in common as well I guess)

When our "best" couple friend had thier 3rd baby last summer, I thought he was pretty cute- he came out pretty toddler-ish instead of distressed like my little fella LOL-

My boy was born with the cord around his neck and he LOOKED AWFUL for a couple of weeks- he was blue for the first day, though no real harm came of it- but he was a real cutie by his 3rd month, blond hair, Anne Geddes picture baby cute after that LOL

My daughter came out looking real toddler-ish (and at 9 pounds 6 oz, almost a toddler) and was a real cutie about 3 weeks after birth, she had some pretty cute fat cheeks on her

I actually envied most of our friends babies, we saw them shortly after birth, and they all looked better than my babies did right after birth LOL

And you know, the lack of sleep didn't come for us right away, it is now that it seems the worst- my boy wakes up at 530 or 6 every morning no matter what we do- it may be the constant daylight here in Alaska, even though we have the windows completely blocked. But as infants, they slept in bed with us, usually 10 hours straight with mama, breast right there for night time feedings. Mama usually didn't even wake up- when the kid got restless I just attached him/her to the boobie and didn't even disturb mama LOL- I don't need much sleep anyway.

In some ways though, when I see what is going on in the world today, I wonder if I am the one being selfish for bringing these kids in a world that will probably be much tougher on them in the long run (my childhood was awful, thiers is pretty nice so far ) than my own, they wil have to work harder to get ahead, and compete with more poeple for the same resources we take for granted today.

My opinion of other people's babies is much like my opinion of other people.
There are few that I find (or have found, rather) exceptionally cute, sweet,
etc. Most of them are just okay with me. I'm not goo-goo ga-ga
over 'em.

What's tough is when you have a dear friend who has a child that is "off-putting,"
so to speak. Any advice on how to tell someone their child is from hell?

kimpossible: Your first paragraph had me in stitches.

CruisingRam: Oh, my God - those Anne Geddes pictures creep me right out. I've had nightmares about those blarsted things.


Start "accidentally" calling the mother "Rosemary"?

ROFL - I like it. I'll try it for a week or so, which should give you
some time to come up with plan B.

I simply don't hang out with poeple that have demon seed children. Kids act childish, that is what they do, and with the exception of perhaps the airplane, you can easily remove them from whatever are you are in and discipline them. I don't mean neccesarily spanking or anything, just getting them out of the center of attention.

When I used to travel, very, very heavily I might add LOL- I used to look for the single parent with a couple of kids and carrying too much crap. I would offer to carry the extra stuff, or even a kid while boarding the plane. You get to go first with small children, so I would help them to thier seat, and then go take mine- I come from a HUGE extended family and babies were part of the everyday landscape for me, from my own birth to adulthood.

I always loved the younger members of my extended family, most of them were pretty cool when I was younger and still even when older.

I do have one cousin that has total hellions, but he finally got them under control too LOL- but oh my god, when they were young, velcro them and stick them to the wall!

OMG Kimpossible-- this is just too funny! I know exactly what you mean and have seen this kind of scenario play out before. I am with you!




Hey, selfish works! I have often said that if people really knew what they were getting into before they had their first child-- there is no way they would do it. Sleep, free time and basically, control of your own life are wonderful things. But I will say (and keep in mind that this is coming from a "non-Baby" person) that having a child takes you to a different level in life. No judgment here, just different. For what it is worth, you experience what it is like to put another human being before yourself. I would never put anyone before ME, except for my child. This sentiment sets you off on a different life course. I think it ultimately teaches you a life lesson that can't be learned any other way. For whatever that is worth . . . .




It is so funny that you mention this doomed planet. My very best friend in the world is coming to visit me this week and bringing her 10 year old daughter. My friend and I have been best friends for 25 years!! BUT, we have completely different parenting styles AND our children are entirely different. This is very difficult. Has anyone else experienced this? She is the kind of parent who strictly monitors any kind of TV, food etc. I remember she wouldn't let her daughter watch one of the japanese anime shows because it portrayed women (cartoon figures mind you ) as too stereotyped sexually. I, on the other hand, have never restricted my daughter when it comes to TV or video games. (Hey, I need the free time!) Result has actually been that she never wants to watch TV . . . . And as far as food goes-- I don't exactly monitor that very well either!

Additionally, my friend's daughter is completely different than my daughter. Mine is extremely competitive, athletic, impatient and loads of fun. Her daughter is very precocious (I hate that characteristic in a kid) and always has her head in a book. She kind of marches to the beat of a different drum if you know what I mean.

In any case, for the first time in our relationship, my friend and I actually have tension between us over this. I have resolved to bite my tongue and not say anything comparing the kids or our parenting styles during the visit.

Tips/suggestions from anyone out there on this issue?

I loved my two babies but the happiest day of my life was when the diapers went into the trash for good.

Other people's babies? Keep them away from me.

I appreciate my kids more and more as they age.

I've experienced this, too! Not really the conflicting parenting styles, but definitely the friend-with-child-from-hell syndrome. Unfortunately, I can't give much advice that is helpful...I pretty much stay away from friends who have those types of children. I have one friend with twins, who were the result of fertility treatments. I've found those parents are sometimes so desparate for children, for so many years, once they successfully have a baby they often let them be the boss of the house (and car, and any other house or car they might find themselves in).

Unfortunately, my children are a little young for tact. The last time they came over to visit and start ranting and throwing things (BTW, these kids are five and they still scream and throw things when they have a temper tantrum...including drinks in other peoples' houses) my older son (6) turned to my youngest (3), and said, "They're acting like babies, aren't they Matthew?" and then turned to them with, "How about you two say this...Nothing!" It has been a while since I've seen them again.

My suggestion would be to put yourself in your friend's shoes. In other
words, remember that her daughter is as important to her as yours is
to you. And, she may be blind to specific faults that you see very clearly
in her child.

Basically, if you want to maintain your friendship, I think mum is the
word.






Indeed, there are parents who do not grasp the concept of "Being in charge."
Children need boundaries, discipline and consequences.



There's nothing worse than having kids over who show little respect.
Respect for others is an important quality that must be instilled by a parent.

Like you, I limit the amount of time I spend with friends who have children with
behavior problems. What else can you really do, without causing a rift?

I went with "kinda cute." Not everyone's baby is beautiful, and some don't seem to have any personality at all.

If you will forgive the comparison, human babies are appreciated by other people in much the same way puppies and kittens are. There are pretty, bright, uninterested, unintelligent, and very engaging puppies and kittens. What you appreciate depends on what you are looking for.

When Shego was born by C-section, one of my friends remarked, "She actually has a nose!" Babies who go through the birth canal often get their noses schmushed. She was not one of those babies who would be called "Punkin" for many reasons.

Newborns are awesome to me, if not totally beautiful. When children get older, they exhibit just how different they are from you in their thinking and their behavior. Not so for the newborn. Their need to be nurtured, cuddled and loved is absolute. This, according to the psychologists, is where basic trust begins. To those who are not their parents, they might resemble little Winston Churchills without cigars, but that changes, and the loving attention they receive actually strengthens them.

There is a reason for the saying, "He has a face only a mother could love." Babies notice how people act toward them, so I try to be as friendly talking to the baby and the mother of an ugly baby as I can be.

Edit: Now, as far as kids with behavior/attitude problems, that's a different situation altogether. I ignore them as best I can.

I have to be totally honest here and say that I don't like children at all. The younger they are, the less I like them. I feel about children the same way I feel about dogs; I wish them no harm, but I am happier the less I see and hear them. On the other hand, I am very fond of cats, and I know that there are people who do not like them at all. That's fine with me, as long as they do them no harm.

I have never had the slightest desire to be a parent, biological or adoptive. Selfish? Sure, if acting in ways that increase my own happiness is selfish. Raising a child would make me very unhappy. (Don't tell me I would feel differently if I had one; there are few things of which I am absolutely certain, but the fact that I am better off child-free is one of them.)

To answer the question directly, I think babies are repulsive and disgusting.

That being said Victoria- I probably don't understand personally the AVERSION to babies and children- I totally understand the not wanting to have babies part, considering the sacrifice involved in raising them is sometimes a little overwhelming, even when you have the means and a good mate- but I do get a little creeped out by poeple that don't like children at all- that part is so alien to me I suppose. I come from a big extended family, and seeing children every day I guess seems as natural as seeing the sun in the sky- it is like breathing, it just is there. Kids can be so much better than adults sometimes in thier comments- everything is fresh, new and exciting, there is no cynicism or jaded personality yet- and I frequently learn things that way still by my daughter and son. I think alot of the worlds problems could be solved if we could keep our adult intellect and wisdom while maintaining the childs ability to have no pre-concieved notions about things around us.

Like I said, totally understand the not wanting to have to have one- but a little exposure to a nice one, when you can hand it right back to the parents - seems like a calming experiance to me. I mean, isn't aversion to babies, pretty much an anti-survival trait?

Gawd, I kind of get the sentiment and I do often fit in the mold of all babies look like Winston Churchill.

I've seen a lot of babies that are of questionable cuteness. I thought myself reasonable impartial the first two (or one depending on how you count) times around. With new latest I was totally smitten an it has taken six weeks for me to stop seeing the cutest thing in the world. My previous son was really cute for about 8 hours and then his head swelled to comic proportions.

I am not a baby person in the sense that I have more fun once they can "use there words" and when I thought we were stopping at two, I was PARTYING when I changed my last diaper. But to me they are not necessarily cute, but precious, and the love from the experience makes it very difficult for me to relate to non-children people. Yet my brother and brother in law who both don't have children and probably won't are great children people.

As for the selfish issue, I know a few too many adults who seem different because they haven't had to give a lot of themselves to raise children. But I also see how having children is a selfish act.

6 half dozen
______ ________
one hand the other

I have three children, hence the name MOMOF3. I have never seen an ugly baby.
Jaime was a really beautiful baby.
Her sister was a little different but not "Ugly" at all. Jaime was perfect in ever way. A lot of dark hair,very alert. And terrible heartburn with her when pregnant.
Her sister had no hair. She was blonde when born. But beautiful also.
My son looked like Jaime the dark hair but lost it about 3 months and looked like a bald cabbage kid.
I have seen many babies not just my own and I have to be honest there is no ugly baby.

This is hardly a profound revelation, but it seems to me that babies are quite similar to older people. Some are fair to look upon, some have uneven features. Some have sunny dispositions, some are fussy.

I look upon the newborn as an inner space traveler who has happened upon a huge new existence, and who needs nurturance and guidance for several years, even longer than the older young person thinks he or she needs it.

Some people have the capacity to love and appreciate other people who are high maintenance, because they find gratification and validation of their own existences in serving others. Parenthood, loving parenthood, should be included in the category of serving others. Thank goodness for those dedicated souls who see beyond the wrinkly, sometimes stinky little members of raw humanity we all start out as before we develop complicated identitities and longer limbs.

Does anyone else around here find these dear little things as off-putting as I do?

Dr. Jekyll - I'd say that most babies (not your own) have amicable faces and that they have their way of charming you and getting your attention. Then, I call them cute.

Mr. Hyde - When these babies start crying because they're hungry or because they pooped in their diapers or because they're teething or because they're sick, the situation becomes a battlefield.


My wife and I are just back from a sonogram, where we've seen our 12 weeks old twins... and for them, I'm already melting. I guess it's because they are our children and no one else's.

Twins! Oh my gosh -- Horyok-- congrats. You will definitely have your hands full!! But when they get a little older it will be great because they will be entertaining each other. Do you know if they are identical? or boy/girl?

Twins! How fantastic, Horyok! Congratulations and best wishes to you and your family. This is going to be a big, big year of change for you and yours. Hope everything goes well. Now that I think about it....does this change your moving plans?

This is the largest baby boom I've ever seen....Seriously, I've been invited to about 30 baby showers in the past year, and everyone in the forum seems to be starting or expanding their families. What does that mean for the economy? There must be a way to invest into this. Toys? Paper products?

Felicitations a vous et votre femme, Horyok!

All the best to your wife for a healthy pregnancy and for two glowingly healthy children!

Hayleyanne, Mrs. Pigpen and Paladin, thank you very much for your good thoughts!

Currently, my wife and I are doing fine and we're very happy about our little buns coming this december! To answer your questions, here's what we can say :

1. They are fraternal twins, which means that they're not identical. Since they're only three months old, it's too early to tell which sex they are. We'll know that in August.

2. Change our moving plans? Nope! We're definitely coming to America! We see the arrival of our babies as a sign for a drastic change! We could have stayed in France to benefit from the welfare state, but we chose this new and exciting adventure instead. We're actually taking our plane to Dulles airport tomorrow!
Finally, I think that being two is a great thing for the twins as they grow older; Hopefully, it means thaey'll have someone special to live and play with.

Congratulations on your twins, Horyok.

I look forward to your arrival in America and will be interested in hearing about your great adventures. I know how it all comes out though, you're going to do fine here. You and your family will be a wonderful addition to America.

Congrats, Horyok! And good luck with the move.


You have to post some baby pictures here, too - in about five years.

Thank you very much Aquilla! I'll try and remember to give you short updates on my adaptation to the American scene. Things will dramatically change (and improve!) when the babies are born too!

Wertz, thanks for your good humor. I'll send you a pic of the twins when they're born and we'll see if you can stomach our two gremlins!