Another great piece of trash that they are teaching our kids…trying to indoctrinate them into the world of multiculturalism.

Effective Aug 26th (unless they get scared off, killed, or accused of hate crimes) the National Education Association will release their encouraged (demanded) lesson plans for teachers to discuss on the anniversary of Sept 11th. I encourage everyone to review the lesson at www.neahim.com, but it wont be available till Aug 26th.

This lesson encourages the teachers to not focus on blame, and defiantly not put a blame on any one race or culture. It then goes on to ask the students what America could have done differently to not force other nations to hate us. And at the end of the lesson the class would focus on the Arab culture, and how we are misunderstanding and ignorant of their ways.

Does this sound fishy, to anyone else? Who is writing this garbage? So let me know, want you kids (or if you had kids) taking this class?

Eat Pork for America on 9/11/02. Why? It is a CRIME in Islam to eat pork. Get the message?

I do think it's wrong the way that September 11th is to be taught.

That being said, I think they could tell the kids that a bunch of clowns came from Antarctica and did it. It wouldn't really matter.

Kids of all ages know that Bin Laden did it. The media has told them so, and TV never lies.

Most parents have talked to their kids about the War on Terrorism. Who are the kids going to believe, their teachers, or their mother and father?

Mike

Things have changed since we were in elementary school Mike. Now there is a good majority of class time devoted to conditioning the children to feel that their parents are wrong, and the establishment of educators is right.

Children are going to know that Bin Laden did this to us, but they cannot comprehend why, heck most of us can’t understand. And when these “educators” tell our children that American and its policy are to blame they will keep that knowledge with them

Besides Mike you try to tell a 4th grader that something his teacher told him was wrong….see how far you get.

I can't wait for school on the Eleventh. I'll be playing games with my teachers, and I'll be playing No Holds Barred. I can't wait to see what *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. *** they come up with. Last year, the *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. *** was 'We can solve this peacefully'.

It is for reasons like this that I did not become a teacher. I had wanted to be a teacher ever since I was a little kid.

When I finally got into the teaching certification program at my university, I dropped it after the first semester because I was taught more how to manipulate the system than teach history (which would have been my subject).

For sh*ts & giggles, I decided to look into the teaching program in my new home state and see if it were any less messed up here. I was APPALLED by the description of the goals of the certification program at the nearby university for history. It stated:

I would be FORCED to teach tolerance? Why should we be tolerant of religious zealots who want to kill us? I was disgusted by that and even more so by the fact that the first goal of this type of teaching was the "resolution of environmental issues." We have WAY bigger fish to fry.

This September 11th indoctrination crap is just another piece of propaganda for the communists running our public schools.

I better start learning how to home school. I've only got 5-7 years before I want to have kids and who knows how bad public school will be by then?!?

Difficult to stomach how much our educational system has turned onto a socialist training ground.

My kids will never attend public schools...even if that means i stay home and teach them.

I am reminded of when Clinton was first elected, his platform was that public schools have the worlds best education, then he sent Chelsie to Private school...guess the brainwashing is reserved form my kids and yours, not for the creators of such *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. ***.

Teachers are really not forced to teach any one thing in any one particular way.

I'm not saying that there isn't any coercion going on, but the decision over what is taught - or more importantly - How something is taught - is really up to the teacher.

NEA lesson plans are only suggestions.

jjirout

Lesson plans by the NEA are just suggestions just like the baseball players option to strike. Sure you have a choice but you choice will most likely be a detriment to your career. The backing of teachers power will be gone, and there is little likelihood that the school or district will stick up for you.

Teaches do have a choice, and I'm sure there are teachers who exercise the choice to teach instead of preach, but they are few and far between. And my child will no be part of the education Russian roulette.

At this point in my life I have spent 20 years in the world of education, I feel it is the ONLY key to success. It is also the only reason for living, to learn as much about our world as we can…(in my opinion). But at some point the education became less about teaching the children what they will need for life, and teaching the children the anti-capitalist, socialist views and teaching an attitude of nannyism. Expressing that their parents are uncaring if they don’t recycle, and their religion is just a mythology, car companies want to poison our air and fishing companies are rapping our seas. Science is now politics, what remnant of science there is left in public schools is reduced to theories about global warming, evolution and animal rights.

There is no denying there is serious problems with the education system in America, even if you deny the left/socialist slant. Our scores go down every year, the standard for high school graduation become less and less, as well as the responsibility placed on the student. The entire system is corrupt, not just the uneducated teachers but the power hungry unions, inept administrators, and evil politicians wanting the control of you young minds.

Like in all organizations, not everyone is corrupt, wrong or evil. There are those out there trying to make a difference, and they are good and doing a great service to the country and community. But a few with buckets can not save the sinking battleship… (sorry for the cheesy line)

drmarcs- it's not that I necessarily doubt you, it's that I love evidence. So please provide me with concrete instances of teachers teaching "the anti-capitalist, socialist views" and "their parents are uncaring if they don’t recycle, and their religion is just a mythology, car companies want to poison our air and fishing companies are rapping our seas"

In my experience most of my teachers didn't have the time to preach any agenda to us. They had a hard enough time getting us to pay attention. The real slanting started when I got to college, but that's for another topic altogether.

I guess I'm just getting sick of school voucher advocates saying all this horrible stuff about public schools without proof. Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of vouchers because it means you control your own money. But if the true end of this whole discussion is to be able to have the choice of schools, then just argue for that - choice. Heck, it worked for abortion

Everyone here: Please read my signature and take it into consideration.

The evidence is in yours and my third rate education. It is in the handing out of condoms in middle school with the justification that “they are going to do it anyway they might as well be safe.” It is in the fact that children in elementary schools (at least where I live) are being taught the teachings of Islam, complete with kids coming to school in turbans. The fact that the word god, and Christianity has been ripped out of all educational materials, and what is left portrays Christians, and western cultural as unenlightened crusaders.

The proof is in the way history books are written, that the evil corporations were exploiting the workers, and children and land. By 6th grade I hade done so many reports on endangered species, (which I do understand a little, because kids like animals) but no reports on how the beef trade had created thousands of jobs in South America.

Getting to college and you are bombarded with leftist ideas, college students who want to change the world, and professors who don’t have real jobs, but will criticize what business is doing now. But at least in college you have a choice, of schools, and of attendance.

Ok to answer you specific question…schools all across California, and I’m sure elsewhere went on a boycott of Styrofoam cups, why because they were bad for the environment…so said a few environmentalist. Turns out a few years later they prove that Styrofoam is better for the environment that paper or plastic.

Rallies on campus stopping the drilling are always greeted with the children being socially and environmentally aware, but a rally for say drilling in Alaska to become energy independent is quickly snuffed out.

The proof is the school itself, it is a breading ground for politically correct thought, there is not game of tag in Berkley, there are anti-bully policies in LA, whites are not allowed to transfer schools in orange county, only minorities.

If you need proof you haven’t been paying attention to education in the last 10 years….

Dr. Marcs, I forgot the "Save the Rainforest" classes, which took place for approximately, oh, 6 years of my life. And then, there were the teachers who voted against dog racing and couldn't understand why anyone would go there (win money, duh)

Then there was last years, "Make peace with Afghanistan", which prompted many "Fluck you's" from me.

Then there was "Pride Week". In essence, a one week celebration of homosexuality and inferior third world cultures.

Next up we have mediators, who teach kids how to solve problems in the most PC way possible.

Finally, there is my up and coming school year. The first couple of weeks will be strange, with 9/11 coming up. I say:

FRIG THE PUBLIC SCHOOLS. I'VE HAD ENOUGH OF THEM, AND I AM GOING TO SEARCH HIGH AND LOW FOR A CONSERVATIVE COLLEGE.

Unfortunately there truly are not any conservative colleges. There are religious schools, which are better (usually) but it still has the better than thou nannyistic attitude that anyone not acting as they are is evil and “uneducated.” They try to intimidate you into believing and acting as they do.

Putting aside the liberal bent in the media, teachers in New Jersey are not pressured to teach liberalism.

A teacher last year had students conduct a debate on abortion. The teacher was open to discussing other points of view, but he had made his pro-life beliefs known.

Tenure (with its positive and negative aspects) is designed to protect teachers from being forced to represent a particular ideology. A new teacher would probably avoid controversial issues such as abortion - for fear of a backlash from parents - but tenure teachers have plenty of room to "experiment".

California has always been an oddball state. I understand that it has set the trend on many issues - but it does not always succeed in spreading its doctrines, and never is it representative of the country as a whole.

JJ

Agreed that California is an oddball, that’s what makes it so special and so weird, but it does have a say on what the rest of the nation does. Likewise with New York which you are very close too. California was the first state to ban smoking in public places, you cant even smoke in bars. And education is the same, when went away to college (outside California) the high schools and elementary schools were teaching what I believe to be learning skills. (math, science, reading writing) As of now the same areas are having battles of whether or not gay clubs can meet during school or if the neighboring religious seminaries should be disbanded. They are only by not even on the school grounds.

It is spreading, why, because liberalism is easy. It is easy to say you are offended, or oppressed. What is hard is to compensate for you deficiencies, and people more and more do not want to take the hard way, the American way.

I assume you are not liberal and not forcing your agenda on you students (if you are a teacher). But you are just a band-aid on a massive hemorrhage. I applaud your efforts, and encourage you to keep fighting, but if you really want to improve the value of the children’s education you would be fighting for choice, then public school would be forced to improve.

I went to school in the Midwest and none of the brainwashing, environmental talks, or Islam (except for when I was in college and that is because I choose to take a world religions course) took place. I never remember being pressured to think a special way, in fact I remember being taught to challenge everything I learned and search for the truth behind every statement. Granted I did go to one of the highest ranked high schools in the Midwest, and my college (and it was as liberal as it gets) is highly regarded for innovations in education. I refuse to believe my public school education was "third rate" by any stretch. I just figured I would express the fact that not all schools are bad, and certainly judging all schools by California norms is not a correct judgment.

-Kisov

Our education is third rate…we are not being challenged, and do not have a choice. As much as I hate Europe the German type of schooling has levels. If you can’t good grades in one you move down to a lower level, that way you don’t pull down the smarter kids. They do teach socialism there too but that might have something to do with the whole nazism still lingering.

I thought my education was good too, till I learned how much I didn’t learn.

I still can't believe that PC isn't quite dead yet. Why isn't the *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. ***ing s*it dead? PC MUST DIE.

Where to begin? I guess I must start with what hit me first. drmarcs, please don't categorize my education as "third rate." I, just like Kisov, went to a midwestern public high school with high academic standards.

Also, drmarcs, I think you're argument is clouded by California's haze. All the examples you provided were in California. Frankly, I don't find California as influential as you seem to think it is. It does not set the trend for the rest of the nation. I think there are a lot of good schools with good teachers still out there. jjirout gave a good example of this in her description of the abortion debate at her school.

Next, this god stuff. The presence or absence of god in classrooms has no direct connection on whether or not the school will produce successful students. I think it's time we stepped away from this crutch of an excuse. I don't need to believe in any higher powers to control myself and not infringe upon the rights of others.

Finally, I agree that a tiered system of learning might be a good idea. Some kids excel in academics. Some are marvelous with technical skills. It's OK to recognize differences in children and learning styles and encourage that.

I would like invite everyone who is a teacher or student or knows someone who is, to come to this site on the afternoon of September 11th and report exactly what types of lessons they offered/received.

Ok now I see I hurt some feelings. Sorry but your education was third rate. So was mine, with the amount of knowledge our minds are able to take in and the amount of garbage we were fed we were ripped off. We should get our money back, its like getting a bag or potato chips and the bag being 9/10’s filled with air. A RIP OFF.

Let me clarify, yes I did attend school in California. Yes they are different (a little) from the rest of the country, but my education has been split, half in Utah, a very conservative environment, and half in California. Most my education in California was in the Central Valley, a very conservative place, finally my high school days were in ORANGE COUNTY the birth place of the modern conservative. My high school is blocks away from the Nixon library, and 20 min away from the Reagan library. There is no justification in telling me that my education was ANY different that your because you were in the Midwest. Besides, the coast always score higher on standardized tests than the heart of the country. (mostly due to Asian and Indian immigrants)

If you want me to leave god out of the classroom I will, but every study done on the subject shows that if the presence of prayer, or 10 commandments(7 pillars, buddas steps, whatever u want to call them), or any form of religious reminders improves the students performance by drastic numbers.

Why is the education in Catholic schools generally better than public schools. Is it merely the added discipline? The doctrine?

I have many friends who say that they have been intelligectually challenged - but severely psychologically damaged by it. I don't believe that the doctrine really supports learning (and I am actually Catholic). Is it the discipline? The smaller classes? Or - while this would surprise me if it was - the traditional methods?

Do they use traditional methods?

While bringing God into the classroom may be a very positive influcence, Christian doctrine - or any religious doctrine for that matter - puts limits on the intellect.

History has shown that the earth is not the center of our universe, that there is merit to the evolutionary theory, and we have since learned that burning witches does not exterminate evil.

The Bible as an example of fiction or history is certainly a valid study, but teaching Christian doctrine disallows much of what as been scientifically proven and supports much of what we consider to be socially undesirable.

However, I would point out that substituting liberal doctrine for Christian doctrine is just as intellectually limiting.

Doctrine itself does not belong in the classroom. The classroom is ideallly a place for people to explore answers and solutions - to test theories and expand, rather than limit, the mind.


JJ

I think the extreme discipline and lack of PC *** NOTICE: THIS WORD IS AGAINST THE RULES. FAILURE TO REMOVE IT WILL RESULT IN A STRIKE. *** in Catholic schools lends to a great education. From experience, I can tell you that the Public Schools haven't done a great job with students. At 16, I have seen kids my age witht the literacy of a rock or a dog. Teenaged students cannot read without asking the meaning of words, ad nauseam.

That is bogus, religion does not put Limits on understanding or science. Most religions (except deep amazon tribal religions) belive that all actions of god are in tune with the laws of nature. Understanding the ways of nature can bring you closer to god, most the top scientist of history are religious, Darwin was a devout Catholic, Einstein a Jew, the both loved their religion and found the creation of life and nature to be inspiring.

Religion teaches compassion, caring, responsibility (depending on which one) and more helpful traits what people cannot develop without religion. While I don’t think that religion should be taught in public schools, the option to practice your religion should, and the option to go to a religious school should be your option.

I attended a seminar on "Creation and Evolution" that addressed how science cannot exist without religion, and religion without science. They are hand in hand, but most the time people, especially school administrators, tend to split them up and teach the religion of science as fact rather than what it really is…..simply a faith.

Have you seen an atom? Have you seen anything evolve? Have you seen Pluto, or a Blackhole? No we take all these on faith, why then is the faith in a creator strictly forbidden? I am a science nerd, don’t believe me ask my wife…but I know that the laws of nature govern not only my life, but the life of my creator.

oh drmarc how I loath thee. Let me count the ways that you are everything that is wrong with our culture.

Religion teaches you to believe in something that doesn't exist...I lose respect for anyone that tells me that they follow a religion.



was this taught by religious people trying to brainwash you some more.



it takes thousands upon thousands of years for something to evolve. I thought you knew all about this.



liberalism is easy, yes it is very easy to see what's wrong with the world. Obviously you are not liberal because you have harsh feelings towards them for trying to improve our fading existence. You also say that they are forcing there views on others, just because someone is saying something that opposes your views does not make it forcing. To compensate for your deficiencies, so you don't think that black people or women have had it rough just for being born that way...



so once again you feel like your way of life is right?



So what constitutes a real job, I looked at your profile and it doesn't say what you do for a living. I went to college and through my own volition I came up with the ideas and theorums that i live by...I didn't let some ancient book tell me how to live or anyone else I questioned everything about myself and my place in life and that's how I ended up where I am...I'm done with you for now...

Dmarcs loves taking things out of context.

I wrote; "While bringing God into the classroom may be a very positive influcence, Christian doctrine - or any religious doctrine for that matter - puts limits on the intellect."

I am not against teaching God or the mysteries of life in public school, but the doctrine that presupposes there is no mystery about life has no place in the classroom. "We were born of Adam and Eve. Eve was the evil one." This type of doctrine attempts to close up minds, rather than expand them.

The idea that "Abortion is wrong" - as a blank statement meant to be immediately accepted by a group of people - is doctrine and it limits the intellect for one is not given the opportunity to way the the arguements pro and con.

Doctrine does not allow for individual development and places limits on the intellect.

The evolutionary theory and religion are not incompatible at all. I entirely agree with you. But religious doctrine has been - throughout history - incompatible with scientific discoveries for doctrine does not allow people to question - but provides answers to which people are simply expected to accept.

The belief that birth control is wrong, for example. That is a doctrine of the Catholic Church. True Catholics are not supposed to question it, just simply accept it as true, and anyone with an individual mind would see that there is more to the story that this.

Doctine - of any kind - does not belong in the classroom.

JJ

Of course doctrine of any kind belongs in the classroom.
Even when some1 states that it does not belong, the only thing he makes is that he creates a new doctrine contraversal to previous.

Hi GeorgeP, welcome to the forum.

I have to admit, you confused me with your last post. Who is "he"? As in:

"He"... is just "someone" , who makes new doctrine. "He" could be just one person, or a large institution - it does not matter. The matter is that Doctrine is a must for education. Doctrine states the goals of education - what kind of person is to be grown up.
Christian doctrine can create moral person.
So, if educational doctrine does not carry moral principles found in dogmas of most world religions, education creates immoral person, i e a kind of thinking animal. World history has plenty of examples.

It is quite possible to eminate moral principles without centering them in religious teachings. "Pillars" such as "respect" "caring" and "responsibility" are fine ideals which can be thoroughly explored through vehicles which do not center around one particular religion (vehicles such as literature for example).

The Bible does not explore the many complicated moral dilemmas that our youths face in this modern age. "Do unto others" and "Turn the other cheek" does not exactly provide a sufficient ethical foundation for anyone anymore. Questions revolving around morality have become more complicated, and as we progress, this storybook becomes less and less effective in its teaching of ethics.

Providing a moral foundation for students is much different than telling them that birth control is evil or that women are inherently impure.

The Bible has historically laid the groundwork for and justified the presence of repression world wide - and yet somehow you find it fitting to still preach the preaching of it.

Avoiding direct religious beliefs when teaching ethics, which is reminiscent of our Greek philosophers) is not doctrine, but rather the search for truth and the value of logic, knowledge, peace, and growth.

jjirout

Of course I agree that those mentioned ("Do unto others" and "Turn the other cheek") moral principles does not provide sufficient ethical foundation... Well, but why?
They do not provide, because sometime ago they were eliminated from educational process in public schools, and even long before of that these christian values had become being widely ignored due to revolutionary modernization of mentality of the 'civilized world'.
And it is due to the ignorance of basic moral principles that the need of 'sexual education' in our schools appeared. And result - now children get interest in sexual relations from much earlier ages. And actually it does not mean that they became more cautious... and, by the way, more CARING.
It's obvious that no one will change the school program in favor of christian principles now, even there would be a hundred of reforms provided. I believe that there are may be 99% of all teachers in public schools who do not believe in God. So, how can they acknowledge christian values?
Understanding of christian values will become much worse than that what I saw in someone's previous statement that 'according' to christian dogmas the Earth is the center of Universe. (????????)
Isn't that exactly just one of medieval prejudices of catholic scholastics?, which has NOTHING COMMON with christian philosophy and ethics - the only real basis of behavioral education!
A similar story is with another claim that "The Bible has historically laid the groundwork for and justified the presence of repression world wide"...
Only a person who never read the Bible could teach you something like this.
Calling themselves Christians and quoting the Bible does not justify any society in any kind of warfare, even a kind of known "selfdefence".

And , well, 'avoiding' is also doctrine, just because it is the "Doctrine to Avoid". No more, and no less.
And if someone developes a kind of plan, e g for education , this person (or institution) SHOULD have a kind of doctrine, which will be embodied into the plan of education. Otherwise there will just a senseless sound remain from all of 'his' efforts. So, doctrine does exists, and this doctrine is "To Avoid Religious Interpretation" of moral etc issues, so that the further generations would never feel personal "RESPONSIBILITY" for their immoral actions.

ppl are brainwashed to hate us, i personally seen it. very sad.

George:

"Do unto others" and "Turn the other cheek" were, as you say, elliminated due to changes that have occured in our modern world.

If there is something "wrong" with this turn away from Christian doctrine, then you must believe that people historically lived more honorable lives than they do now.

?

The presence of Christian doctrine throughout history has not prevented immoral behavior, and the Bible (with twisted interpretations) has been historically used as a foundation to support a number of injustices.

I have nothing wrong with a teacher using the bible to illustrate moral principles, but teaching it as the "word of God" ?

In a land of supposed individuals?

JJ

Newsflash: There is still (and was always) suffering, war, and injustice in the world.

But that is because we don't just sit down and read the Bible! It is so simple!

Why didn't I think of that?

JJ

yes, and saddam will read it to us.

I'm in high school, and when 9/11 happened I was in history class and my history teacher (who knows his stuff) told us right off the bat who did it. I went home, told my parents, and they agreed. I think high schoolers, and maybe some middle schoolers, have enough sense to know what went on. I can see this being taught in elementary and some middle schools. I don't think the schools should be telling students about 9/11 they plan to unless it is brought up by a student in class. Its the parents' responsibility to talk to their kids about it; and if they haven't already, then that's just sad.