In leiu of many conversations about race and citizenship, I've come to the conclusion that many of us view being "American" as something completely different. "American" is often an adjective as well as a noun, just as maybe "Texan" could be. People sometimes segment themselves into African-Americans, Asian-Americans, or Latin-Americans. Among my travels, I've never been in contact with a society of people that are so interested in segregating themselves from the majority of the population.

With that in mind, questions for debate:

1. What does being "American" mean to you?

2. If you traveled abroad, would you be proud to be an American?

3. Is being "American" related to a certain culture, and if so, what does that "culture" entail?

1. The fact that I happen to be, by sheer accident, a citizen of the United States.

2. This baffles me, frankly. Why should I be proud of the fact that I am the citizen of a particular nation? I'm certainly glad to be a citizen of the United States rather than, say, North Korea, but I would never use the word proud. (I can certainly understand an immigrant who struggled to become a citizen of any particular nation being proud of that achievement, but I can't understand pride of birthplace.)

3. This is the big question. Certainly, every nation has, in the broadest possible sense, some sort of "culture." For example, in the loosest possible sense of the words, it's quite true that the United States is a "Christian nation," simply because the majority of American citizens are Christians. This certainly doesn't mean that you have to be a Christian to be an American, or that non-Christians are somehow "apart" from the "culture."

I have to question the contention that anyone who self-identifies as a "whatever-American" is somehow "segregating themselves from the majority of the population." The plain fact is that the experience of a "whatever-American" is not going to be exactly the same as the experience of a "majority-American."

The United States is not a melting pot; it's a thick, spicy, chunky stew, full of interesting bits and pieces that enhance the overall flavor without dissolving into each other.

1. What does being "American" mean to you? I live in America and I was born here.

2. If you traveled abroad, would you be proud to be an American? Proud is really the wrong word. I think America is a great country but I'm not proud that I was able to be born here.

3. Is being "American" related to a certain culture, and if so, what does that "culture" entail? I really agree with Victoria here. Identifying yourself as asian-American or African American is about what being Asian or African means to you, not about being non-American. America is such a diverse place nobody can claim to be totally authentically American. The search for what unites us cannot exclude any American, wherever they fit into America. Using "America" to exclude "Americans" in "America" is un-"American".

1. What does being "American" mean to you? To me, being an American means that you were either born in the US or became a citizen.

2. If you traveled abroad, would you be proud to be an American? Currently, I live in another country and am proud of where I was born, the US. Just as most of the people here are proud of the country in which they were born.

3. Is being "American" related to a certain culture, and if so, what does that "culture" entail? No, there are too many different cultures that all make up the US, and that's what makes it an interesting place.

Then you must have never traveled to Eastern Europe. When I was in Serbia, there are a lot of families with Greek origins, who consider themselves Greek even though they've only visited Greece on vacation and at least two generations of the family were born and raised in Serbia. I also have a Serbe friend who's grandmother is from Hungary, so she considers herself Hungarian, even though she was born and raised in Serbia. Their obsession with ethnicity and race boggles my mind, and I tried to explain to my friend that in America, everyone is considered American. In Serbia and in France, everyone is described as their great great great grandparents heritage, regardless of whether or not they were born and grew up in that country. Which, as an American, I find shocking.

1. What does being "American" mean to you?

Not much. It means I grew up and lived in the United States for most of my life. Im used to certain conveniences, like dryers and free local phone service.

2. If you traveled abroad, would you be proud to be an American?

Well, I have traveled abroad, and I was more ashamed to be American than proud, if I felt anything at all. When one travels abroad, esp. in W. Europe where Americans are the most prevalent, you learn real quick to be ashamed of your nationality. First of all, Americans act obnoxious! They are all loud, and complain about how "different" things are. Not all Americans are like that, but enough to where if I was in a touristy area, I would cringe. Ive mostly traveled by myself, so Im not like the traveling hoards of Americans who all go to Amsterdam and get really high and then just get really obnoxious.

I also hated telling people I was American, because many times I would get treated differently, instantly. Ive noticed this more in France, because I speak French and I would be speaking French with a sales clerk and they would find out I was American and instantly, we would switch to English. Like I wasn't just speaking their native language...

3. Is being "American" related to a certain culture, and if so, what does that "culture" entail?

Yes. I would say its the culture of being obnoxious and intolerant of other cultures when you travel to a foreign country...Hmph. No really though, I think American culture is really one based on convenience more than anything else. As Americans, its difficult for us to adapt to otherways of doing things, because the American way is usually faster and way more convenient. We dont have well developed public tranport, because we all have cars. We dont need to air-dry our clothes because thats what dryers are for. Etc.

"Proud to be an American" - a phrase seen so often on T-shirts and bumper stickers - makes as much sense as "proud to be a brunette" or "proud to be white". There's absolutely no personal achievement involved in being an American - how can one be proud of something he or she had absolutely no control over?
That being said, while I consider myself an American, I also view myself as Russian as well. Russia is my native country, and USA is my adoptive country, and I love them both... in a different way. I have great admiration for many things American, from Constitution to the system of government to Grand Canyon to fall in New England to baseball. I also have great admiration for many things Russian such as historic heritage, literary tradition, the language, etc. Am I proud of being Russian or American? Not really... I am glad that by virtue of my birth I am Russian and by virtue of me living here I am an American...
I have absolutely no intention to "blend in" - on contrary, I'll do my best to keep my cultural identity intact. I view my heritage as a window to a different culture - why should I try to shut this window if I already have it open? People spend years in universities to get where I happened to be just by virtue of my birth. Same goes for Asian-Americans, Jamaican-Americans, Latino-Americans, etc. - by virtue of them being born in South America, Mexico, China, Jamaica, etc. they have an unique door into the other culture - it's only natural to try to preserve this and pass it on to their children.

Well, this brings up an interesting idea that maybe I hadn't addressed.

Being a veteran, I find that nearly everyone in the military is proud of their service, and believes that regardless of where they served, that being American is something to be proud of.

Take our intervention in Bosnia for instance. The UN is nearly useless without our military, and as an enforcement force, they'd be rendered impotent without us.

As a Marine Reservist, I've also been involved in securing gov't buildings and aiding rebuilding after Hurricanes in Guatemala. This was also a UN sponsored force, but nearly completely American. I surely believe that walking around with a handful of French troops and hundreds of Americans aids in my broad-chested attitude.

The only time I can say in contemporary history that a nation requested aid from the UN, and the US Military wasn't involved was in Rwanda... and we all know what happened there.

What you won't see on CBS nightly news is all the Afghani people that are thrilled to see us there. They lived under the shroud of oppression from the time the Russians arrived, and even afterwards beneath the suppression of the Taliban. Seeing children excited to just touch me (us) made me feel like a million bucks, and glad to be wearing the stars and stripes on my shoulders.
(especially considering the fact that even my next door neighbors kids could've cared less when I came home!!!those snots didn't even come over until they thought they could make some $$ by mowing my lawn... my wife had been paying them in my absence... !!! )

I do believe that being "American" has a certain connotation abroad. People in Europe can spot us coming from a mile away, even though we often times physically look similar (well, maybe not as pasty white and don't have cigarrettes hanging from our mouths!).

If there is "no American culture", why do people abroad listen to our music, wear our clothing, drive our automobiles, eat at McDonalds, and watch our movies? Are these not components of American "culture"?? If these don't comprise parts of a culture, what do?

I spent 3 days in Riyadh, and found that I could get a coca-cola, a George Strait CD, and a Time Magazine at the local Safeway!!!

So, to answer your question victoria, you should be proud of being an American. Step away from partisan ideas, and consider the last twenty years and all of the Americans that have gone to war to save people from other nations. We saved the Kuwaitis in the first gulf war, went to war in Somalia, and fought in Bosnia. These are just the large scale operations that make network news. Yes, from time-to-time, the British and French have also done similar deeds...

But whether it's seeing the American headstones adjacent to the cliffs of the French countryside, or seeing the faces of Afghani children that can now go to school because of our intervention... I'm proud to be an American.

Maybe we just see things a little bit differently here in the South....

The funny thing that maybe you don't understand about "african-americans" or "latin-americans", etc is that most of them were born here in the US.

"Proud to be an American", by the way, is different than being proud to be blonde or white. The difference is while I cannot change my whiteness, I am free to move to Canada and denounce my citizenship. I'm free to move wherever I'd like, as there are plenty of airports and passports are easy to get. My skin color, as much as I do get tan, will never be black (or brown or tan, etc).

You're from a different country... why did you come here? I understand holding on to your heritage, as if I moved up north I'd still believe that I'm a southerner. However, there's something to be said for you replying to a post about being "American" when you're a first generation immigrant...

Is it such a good thing? Yes they can spot us... by the volume of our voices and by the fact that we wear jeans and shirts to museums and churches... I am not sure there's much to be proud about here.



Is this the best that American culture could offer? Ouch.... It is a fact that we saturate the world with junky McDonalds or with Levi's jeans (which are hand-sewn in Guatemala or China anyway)... however, that's not the type of "culture" we should be proud about. We should be proud about Louis Armstrong and Duke Ellington, Gershwin and Miller, Poe and Longfellow, Cooper and Mark Twain... that's the kind of culture that Americans are appreciated for.



Here's the problem with that logic. If we want to be proud of good deeds that America has done across the world, we should also be ashamed of all the bad things that Americans have done... slavery and segregation, extermination of Native-Americans and overthrowing legitimate governments in other countires... how do you separate your pride from shame? I as a Russian should be proud for the Tchaikovsky's music but ashamed for Stalin's GULAG even though I had nothing to do with either?

Overthrowing legitimate governments in other countries???? Here comes the spewing of rhetorical partisan politics...

Ok..when. You made this as a plural statement. I am both an arm-chair historian and a military officer, so please choose your words carefully. I don't want to turn this into a rhetorical rant.

Slavery and segregation were inherited ideals from our Western European roots. Lest we not forget that exterminating natives also was part of what Europeans did?? What about the Spanish in Mexico, etc.

I'm talking about contemporary American society; the one in which I live. The only controversial military action of our life-times is happening now, in which I believe in the long run will have far different ramifications than that which the American media portray.

If McDonalds, our music, GM cars, and Personal Computers are so awful, then why in the world does everyone spend their money on them???? Go ahead... hit me with something other than talking points.

I am shocked at the difficult time some people are having in identifying any pride in their heritage.

We are all Americans. We belong to the American culture. America is a beautiful country and has a rich culture in so many ways. What is American culture? Lots of things. Why can't we all contribute the positive points on American culture here. I'll start:

(1) Our country, unlike most every other country, has enormous opportunities for its citizens. Deeply engrained in the American psyche is a core belief that anyone, regardless of his economic or social background, can succeed here.

(2) Additionally, Americans believe optimistically, that they can turn their lives in a different direction at any time. Just because someone has worked for 10 years, say, as a factory worker, doesn't stop that person from quitting, going to university and then graduate school and becoming any number of things: lawyer, doctor, professor etc. I lived in Europe for two years, and I never saw this kind of acceptance for change late in one's life.

(3) We have the most individual freedoms of any country in the world. No where in the world do they have the freedom of speech that we enjoy here. This point becomes clear when you look at the restrictions of speech present in many of the european countries. Many of these countries have passed "hate speech" legislation. Here, in this country, that type of legislation would not be able to pass constitutional muster.

(4) Our standard of living is better than any other country in the world. We are spoiled by the sheer space that we have in this country. A much greater percentage of people in this country own their own homes than in other countries.
Most families have at least two cars; cell phones; computers; cable etc etc.

These are just a few of the things that make up American culture.

And we all enjoy them. Moreover, as a society, we have a stake in them. Being American is not just a happenstance of birth. Once born into this country, you have a stake in it and have a responsibility to protect it and make it better.

It is exactly because I want to avoid "spewing partisan talking points" I will not go deeply into discussing our government shady dealings. It doesn't even matter what I or you think about them - it's important how the world perceives them. When the deed is good, it is good - you'll be hard-pressed to find many people who would criticize United States for helping to liberate France. By the same token, the overwhelming majority sees our dealings during Iran-Contra affair and our involvement in overthrowing Salvatore Alliende as nothing to be proud about.


All these things that you list have nothing to do with culture. They have everything to do with corporations trying to make as much money as possible at any cost. Think about tobacco companies which get the majority of their revenues from overseas - what do they have to do with overwhelmingly non-smoking american culture? That's why they saturate foreign cities with McDonalds' and bombard them with marketing campaigns for Camel cigarettes. These are "culture surrogates".

Kissinger and the CIA aiding Pinochet in overthrowing the Marxist gov't on our doorstep was more than necessary, as was the Iran-Contra scandal. I am proud of both. Ask central American and South American nations what they think about Pinochet, and whether they'd have preferred to be bordered by Alliende and the Communists...

Do you know anything about the cold-war, our policies, and their implications? I personally am proud of the way the Iran-Contra affair panned out. We were concerned about Nicaragua's pro-communist gov't being supported by Cuba and the Soviets, as well as the hostages in Lebanon. Oliver North is a hero in my book (as those of many Americans as he has been repeatedly elected to public office).

In both cases, we helped factions of the nations that we were involved in. It's not like Reagan sent troops to their nations and overthrew the gov'ts, which would've probably been faster and cheaper. We were helping to spread democracy while protecting Americans. How horrible... If European opinion differs, it doesn't change the fact that I'm still proud to be an American. T

The two subjects that you mention were both protecting Americans and American soil. Going to Bosnia, Somalia, or Kuwait weren't... Like I said... I am proud.

If you want to talk about something that we shouldn't be proud of, let's discuss when we didn't go to Rwanda... that's shameful... but heck, it was Clinton's call. I don't see that as much of a reflection on the American spirit but more of Clinton's racist ideology. (lest we not forget that we did go to Bosnia, to save Muslims none the less). A Brigade of Marines could've stopped the annihilation of nearly a million people. I've seen the effeciency of the USMC against untrained and ill-equipped troops. It would've taken little effort and little risk... I digress.

Other than the US, the French, and the British... there are seldom Industrialized nations that come to aid people on foreign shores in this capacity.

Maybe it's tough for someone to understand this principle who's never stuck his neck out for anyone other than himself....

I think Americans should be proud. Proud to send money to Humanitarian efforts. Proud to be the first on the shores of UN interventions. Proud to be part of an economy that sustains nearly 1/3 of the world's GDP. Proud to provide a large number of technological advances in contemporary history. Yes, we were born here, and not by choice, but we don't have to stay here.
That's proven by the hundreds of thousands of Immigrants that flood our shores every year... being "American" is a state of mind as far as I'm concerned.

Hey, you can be proud of anything you want.. that's the beauty of this country. For the most heinous deed there's always someone who is proud of it.
Alliende was democratically elected president - a notion that should not be foreign to you... but heck, he was a comminust indeed, so I guess democracy only works one way - when we approve the results.
Pinochet regime is universally considered a dictatorship. Universally. End of discussion. But hey, at least he wasn't a communist dictator.



Germany and Canada have more immigrants per capita then United States... the number of immigrants doesn't prove anything. You would be surprised to find out how many immigrants arrive to Russia every year from China, Mongolia, and various "stans". People always go where the standard of life is higher. Proves nothing.

That aevans176 is where your argument goes off the deep end, so to speak.

1. Racial minorities have historically been separated from the majority of the population. It wasn't until years after the Civil War that America's Presidents stopped protesting loudly that America was a nation for "The White Man" (and even more years until congress got the memo).

2. It is absolutely natural for people with similar ethnic backgrounds to associate with each other and to have a name to demonstrate their heritage.

Irish-Americans and Italian-Americans are well known for this as well.

It doesn't mean they feel any less American just that they are as proud of their heritage as you are to be an American. There's nothing wrong with that.

I wouldn't say I'm proud to be an American so much as I am proud of America.

I'm proud of a nation that slugged its way through so many distortions of it's own brilliant ideals. Sure other nations did so to and I'm proud of them as well.

Our former president just after the Civil War had the amazing foolishness to utter statements like.


..and in the face of ignorance that deep the concept of multiculturalism managed to become the norm.

That's something to be proud of.

Being American is not a culture, one of the greatest traits of America is that it has no one culture.

Aren't you contradicting yourself with your statements above in bold? It's so easy to generalize people and culture based on several experiences you have encountered.

I've lived in Prague for about 2 1/2 years now and have seen obnoxious tourists from just about every country. I would have to say the the civil ones outnumber the obnoxious ones greatly. My perspective might be slightly skewed though as I live here and am not a tourist.

Leave it to a liberal to be upset about overthrowing a communist government in our own back yard, during the height of the Cold War. How awful...

We all remember what happened with Cuba, and the Bay of Pigs fiasco. We couldn't allow that to happen again, and allow communist involvement within reasonable striking distance. During this part of American history, as you may remember, things weren't particularly amiable between the USSR and the US. Fine... be upset. However, if you were to ask all of America how they felt about ousting a pro-communist regime in South America, I'm sure there would be plenty with a differing opinion.

Oh-and lest we not forget what a success communism was for Cuba.... I'm sure Chile got the better of the two...

Okay.

1. In 1953, the United States overthrew a democratic government in Iran and installed a dictator, the Shah of Iran, who ruled with American support until 1979.

2. In 1954, the United States overthrew a democratic government in Guatemala and installed a military dictator, and with American support brutal military dictators dominated Guatemala until the late 1980s.

3. In 1964, the United States overthrew a democratic government in Brazil and installed a military dictator, and with American support military dictators dominated Brazil until the late 1970s.

4. In 1965, the United States overthrew a democratic government in Indonesia and installed a military dictator, Suharto, who then with American help killed over 500,000 people--the people who supported the old democratic government. Suharto to this day continues to receive American economic, political, and military support.

5. In 1965, the United States helped install the brutal dictator, Mobuto, in Zaire, who killed tens of thousands of people and looted his country of over 8 billion dollars. The United States continued to support the brutal dictator Mobuto until just the last few years, when we are now calling him "a relic of the Cold War." If he is a relic, he is the United States' relic!

6. In 1973, after America had withdrawn from Vietnam, the United States overthrew a democratic government in Chile and installed a brutal dictator, Pinochet, who killed tens of thousands of people--people who supported the old democratic government. With American economic, political, and military support, the brutal dictator Pinochet dominated Chile until the late 1980s.

http://www.colorado.edu/AmStudies/lewis/20...etnam.htm#order

The U.S.A. has supported dictators and tyrants throughout history and still do to this day including King Fahd Bin Abdul-Aziz of Saudi Arabia (home of 15 of the 19 terrorists that hit us on 9/11/01) and some our best buds include the likes of:

General Manuel Noriega of Panama: Noriega first met with then CIA Director George Bush in 1976, while Noriega was collecting $100 thousand a year as a CIA asset. Their friendly relationship persisted even after Noriega's drug dealing was revealed by a 1975 DEA investigation. During the Reagan era, Noriega collaborated with Oliver North on covert actions against Nicaragua, training contras and providing a transshipment point for CIA supported operations that flew weapons to the contras and cocaine into the US.

Pol Pot of the Khemer Rogue in Cambodia: Washington took steps to preserve the Khmer Rouge as a counter force to the Vietnamese. International relief agencies were pressured by the US to provide food and humanitarian assistance to the Khmer Rouge, which had fled to Thailand, and the US sent military aid as well. In 1982, in an effort to isolate the Vietnamese, the US forced together the three contending anti-Vietnamese groups, insisting that the Khmer Rouge be part of the negotiations.


The Duvaliers of Haiti: During the 30 years that they ruled with an iron hand, 60,000 Haitians were killed and countless more were tortured by the Duvaliers' Tonton Macoutes death squads. While Haiti became the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere, the Duvaliers enriched themselves by stealing foreign aid money. In 1980, for instance, the International Monetary Fund granted Haiti a $22 million budget supplement. Within weeks, $16 million was "unaccounted for". Baby Doc made Haiti into a trans-shipment point for Colombian cocaine. Nevertheless, as long as Papa and Baby Doc were anti-communists, they could do no wrong in the US government's eyes.

http://www.omnicenter.org/warpeacecollecti...ctators.htm#doe

While the United States of America is the greatest success in the history of the world in the practice of democracy, the U.S. govenment has not always been on the side of democracy when it clashed with policy and/or profit.

The U.S. is still the only nation to use a nuclear weapon in an offensive manner against another nation.

As we approach the Fourth of July, American citizens should be justifably proud of how our nation has shared with the world our accomplishments and advances in art, science, medicine, culture, sports, music and technology.

But if you're going to talk about the good, you've got to accept the bad as well and there's an awful lot of bad.

This too is part of America.

I too was in the military, and have seen first hand americas "greatness" in action in central america- nothing to be proud of whatsoever- we have been the bad guy many times, from overthrowing goverments for Chiquita bananas (overthrow of the goverment in 1954 by the CIA because it might hurt Chiquita's bottom line, very evil thing we did there) to installing Saddam Hussien, to installing the Shah of Iran. Almost every problem we have in the world today is a result of a former failed foriegn policy.

I am proud to be an American, not for our failures, though it shames me that we can not accept our failures as well, such as the genocidal war against the indians (hey, we were succesful at it, hitler was not, is that why we are mad, becauase we hate a loser?)

but because we TRY to maintain our ideals. I wish we were more consistant with it, I wish we could pull ourselves out of the various quagmires of our own outdated thinking- and I truly believe that SOMEDAY we shall. Perhaps the generation AFTER the baby boomers wil become another liberal "greatest generation" like the WW2 generation- the need to help others while taking responsiblity for yourself.

I am proud of where we come from, and hope we improve in the end.

There are better countries to live in right now, more free, and cleaner and more crime free, I don't live in the conservative world of rose colored glasses- I will strive to change my own country to make it better than those places. Recognizing you ARE NOT number one is the best way to identify your weakness to BECOME NUMBER ONE AGAIN.

I travel abroad at least yearly- and believe it or not- german travelers have a worse rep than us- but American women are a close second in most countries, though American men are considered pretty cool.

I usually identify myself first as "Alaskan" - out of habit from travelling to the "lower 48"- and this usually leads to long conversations about my home state. If I am in a third world country, I try to blend in as much as possible, as any rich tourist is considered a target sometimes, but being loud and boisterous in any country can get you in trouble, and there are only a couple of places more dangerous than an american big city- I take the same precautions in Moscow as I do LA or San Antonio or Birmingham etc.

Yes, I think we are linked to a certain culture when I am abroad, they usually want to know if I have any current CDs or DVDs so they can bootleg them LOL- real good old capitalist opportunity there LOL

But in the US itself- it is folly to consider us one culture- and this is the great weakness of America - our inability to really recognize this fact. We are a nation of immigrants, and each entering brings it's own strengths and weaknesses, and they become part of our culture whether we like to our not.

I love many of the artists EH mentioned- ESPECIALLY Duke Ellington- and when I travell abroad THAT is the kind of culture I like to project as an ambassodor of my country, though I legally represent no one but myself and my family name.

I try to distance myself from corporate America and GW Bush, and if asked, I do not support GW and our right wing constituentcy in any way shape or form- except thier right to express thier views- usually I say "well, we have a loud mouthed nasty crowd in America right now, but that is okay, we have the freedom to allow such behavior, I realize in your culture it is chaos to you- but, the warts and blemishes of the US are part of our culture, and to suppress any part because we are offended takes away from the good parts of our culture as well- I am no fan of the current neo-con movement in America- but I respect thier freedom to be a neo-con- this is uniquely American, well, and French as well LOL- it is amazing how much we are alike, the french and the US- we are like brothers who love each other but can't live with each other" LOL ( joking helps in any culture when you add a little self depreciation)

You probably think that the term "liberal" is an insult
If you look on the map, the Chilie can hardly be called "an American backyard". Or do you consider an entire South America an american backyard?

As for Chilie getting it better then Cuba, decide for yourself:

Tortures
Women prisoners
Mass murders
Rapes

From Wikipedia:



This is the regime that United States helped to install and you are proud about it.

Wow.

Hey, Hitler achieved economic growth in Germany, too! And - he hated Communists!

We are a nation of immigrants yes, but we also have our own culture that identifies us as uniquely American. Our culture is what we all have in common. Are you suggesting that there is nothing unique about american culture? I can assure you that if you were to live abroad-- you would find many shared references/views/ perspectives with other americans living abroad, regardless of your ethnic backgrounds.

I remember when I lived in Paris. Some of us (americans) had told some of our french friends about the show Twilight Zone-- and how americans sometimes hummed the tune from that show when something bizarre happened. Well one day, we were all sitting down to dinner together, and some one was missing a spoon. And our french friend started to hum the tune of Twilight Zone. Anyway, my friend and I could not stop laughing, because, he obviously did not "get it". The point is, that as americans living in the same country, society etc. we all share so many common cultural references that we take for granted. All these things make up what it means to be american.

Okay, so we share a popular culture and many, laregly irrelevant, references. Is this the extent of American culture?

I don't think this goes any distance to prove aevans176 contention that certain groups work to segrgate themselve though you're probably not arguing for it.

I believe that what American's call culture is very different from what many nations call the same thing.

Our culture is (thankfully) not based so much on our history as a nation as much as more current shared experiences.

Therefore it is pointless to say that African-Americans segregate themselves from it.

There are it.

Turnea-- I am not commenting in any way about groups distancing themselves from "american" culture. I am commenting on how the things (even irrelevant and silly things like the Twilight Zone example) we all share and can relate to, define our american culture.

If I were to go to France today, I would certainly feel as if rap music, which was started by african americans, was a part of my american culture. I might not like rap (although I kind of do ) but that doesn't make it any less american.

Being american is all the big things people have mentioned about our freedoms etc, but it is also about all the little things that remind us of home.

Other examples of little things that we share in american culture--

Americans don't like sharing tables at restaurants. It is just not part of our culture to walk into a restaurant and sit down with strangers. It is part of european culture though-- and it used to really bug me.

Americans don't pack their own groceries usually. We have baggers at the grocery store. Not so in France-- at least when I lived there.

Americans expect 24 hour service and just don't get it when everything closes down on Sunday.

Americans tend to eat lunch at their desks at work, or take pretty short lunch breaks. Not so, at least with respect to the French people I knew when I worked at Renault and lived in France.

Americans don't take the entire month of August off on vacation.

Most Americans drive a lot and either don't like or don't have available to them, mass transportation.

The twilight zone example was an instance of a shared cultural reference. I am sure we could all come up with lots of them. What about humming the jeopardy tune when you want to joke about putting pressure on someone to answer a question?


The list goes on and on. It would be fun to hear others thoughts on these kinds of shared cultural references.

Ive lived in Europe before also, and I stand by my statement. Yes. there are other nationalities that are obnoxious (the British, anyone?), and no, not all Americans are obnoxious, but I think my generalization is correct. Sorry that I used "all" in my description, it's obviously confused you. I should have said "Most of them are loud and obnoxious." Ive seen far TOO many Americans in Nice and Paris being quite annoying and rude, or just making a scene.

And obviously, Im going to make my assumptions based on my experiences, where else would I get them from?

nighttimer, I'll tip my hat to you for finding this article, and in order to keep Ms. jaime happy, we'll keep this civil.

That being said, what you have to understand is that every single time, these operations were in the form of training, financial support, or supplying arms. In every case, it was in the interest of NATO and the US. We can debate them seperately on another thread if you'd like. It's not as if we sent troops and spilled American blood in order to do accomplish these goals, as happens in our Humanitarian operations (i.e. Bosnia or Somalia).

In addition, I have accepted that there are times that we're sincerely wrong. Our inaction in Rwanda is probably the most despicable time in American history. Nearly 4 times as many people died in this genocide than during the bombing of Japan with atomic weapons. Again, I know that Clinton allowed nearly a million Rwandans to be slaughtered without intervening... and who knows how the world will remember Iraq. Of course, we're not always right.

That being said, I believe that everyone that woke up on American shores today should be proud. In my mind, to be part of something bigger than yourself, to work for the betterment of another people is something far more grand than any other success. I've seen it happen first hand.

1. What does being "American" mean to you?

Currently, this word includes pretty much everyone me - I'm a droplet of French in an ocean of Americans! I know what to be an American citizen means, but I'm just discovering how it feels.

2. If you traveled abroad, would you be proud to be an American?

I'm not American, but as a Frenchman, I don't feel any specific pride. So, in return, I suppose that I wouldn't feel proud to be American, had I been born and raised in the US.

3. Is being "American" related to a certain culture, and if so, what does that "culture" entail?

Yes, it is. I can say so because this culture I'm currently discovering is not mine. Now, I believe culture is not strong enough - I would put lifestyle instead, which is more global and dynamic word.

1. What does being "American" mean to you?

Two distinct things. Firstly, the most obvious meaning is "someone from the United States of America", which is what I expect you mean in your question.

There is another, more literal meaning though, which is "someone from the continents of North or South America". The second meaning has been overtaken by it's appropriation by the United States.

This isn't unique - technically, the Irish are just as entitled to think of and refer to themselves as "British". (Rather more entitled than the English, as it goes.) However, "British" has been appropriated by the inhabitants of the island of Great Britain (which isn't called "Great" because it's magnificent, but because the Romans who named it found that it is larger in area than the other "Britannia" - the area of France we now call Brittany.) And those same inhabitants have, in the past, been dreadful oppressors of the inhabitants of Ireland. So naturally, they don't want to think of themselves as British.

2. If you traveled abroad, would you be proud to be an American?
It depends. As a soldier or a sensitive tourist, I think I would be, just as I would be (and am, largely) proud to be a Brit (though I'm more proud to be Welsh).

However, if I behaved in the "typical" British way - lager tourism involving being drunk the whole time; only mixing with other Britons (except waiting staff); being generally loud and obnoxious; refusing to even try to speak the local language, instead just shouting slowly in English - then I would probably be rather ashamed.

I'm sure there are similar negative charicatures of Americans abroad I could post, though I've never met any here that have lived down to them. From what I have seen and heard, the "most typical" type American, if there is such a thing, never travels outside US borders anyway.

3. Is being "American" related to a certain culture, and if so, what does that "culture" entail?
Duh! American culture. Which includes fast food, ignorance and trigger-happy militarism and gourmet cookery, charity and sensitivity. Which includes NWA, Britney Spears And jazz, the blues etc.. Which includes American Pie AND The Godfather and Woody Allen.

It's ALL definitively and characteristically American. The best thing about America - geographically, culturally, politcally, the works - is it's variety, not any one uniting principle. Is that something to be proud of? You bet your life!

I agree with Julian. Americans should be proud of their nation after all, in the greater scheme of things the USA has stood for more good than bad.

With regards to Americans abroad: My first experience of Americans abroad was only from TV. For the first many years of my life I only met one American and he was a street cleaner in the UK who after a while told me to F---- off.

Apart from this, this and this were my only understanding of who the Americans were and as a small boy I loved them all.

It wasn't until many years later, in the Danish military that I met my first 'real' Americans and I was not impressed by their loud, brash and apparently arrogant manners. These were USAF service personnel at Ålborg Air Force base in circa 1989. I was there being trained to use the LMG and for several days we ate in the same canteen as these Americans. Since I was the only Dane present with totally fluent English I became a focus for their attentions. On the whole I found them to be very insecure and uncertain and I came to the conclusion that their loud obnoxious manners were a mask for this. Most of the Danes in my class didn't like them at all. I wasn't particularly happy about them either.

In another incident, also due to my language abilities, I was called upon to be a translator during a mock interrogation during an exercise. Later, when our part was over, I spent the better part of an afternoon with a Ranger from, (if I recall correctly), Baltimore. I've forgotten his name, but he was a very well spoken and intelligent man who was very curious about my thoughts on the differences between England and Denmark.

After I left the military I met a few other Americans in my home city of Århus. Some were friendly, others were shallow and deceitful. One in particular seemed to be very callous and hurt my feelings on numerous occasions.

Every so often, during the summer, tourist ships come to Århus and American tourists flood the center of the city, passing through on their way to more interesting, more historical places. Århus has a cathedral from the 1200's and this is a very popular tourist attraction, especially it seems for Americans. On one occasion I was seated at an outside café by the cathedral and two elderly Americans sat at the table beside me. Obviously worn out by tramping about the city they soon engaged me in conversation.

Now, in doing so they broke a slight social taboo in that Scandinavians are not like Mediteraneans, one does not casually interrupt other people in public here. To do so is not exactly rude, but it can be considered unusual, if not annoying.
I was surprised to be spoken to for no other reason than for the delight of my conversation. I soon learned that Mr and Mrs Allen were from Delaware and were quite surprised by the high prices in Norway and Denmark. When I replied in perfect English (which they found amazing), I had to explain my whole life story to them. I did so and in return learned about their children and granchildren (none of whom I can remember now, except that their son was a dentist.... I think)

The gradual point I am trying to make, is that I have actually never met a rude American tourist. On the contrary I have found Americans to be among the most charming (though overly chatty) of people and since I speak English, as do most Americans, very easy to get along with.

If I have any complaint to make against Americans in this context, then it is the observation that most Americans seem to be very naive. Often they betray a deep ignorance in their opinions with regards to the world outside the USA (and this is something I've noted, to a lesser degree online as well) but since no one owns a monopoly on ignorance I certainly can't hold this against Americans.

With regards to culture I would add that McDonalds is not culture. fast food is culture perhaps, but not McDonalds which is simply just a brand name.

American culture for me, is everything that represents the spirit and art of the people of America, not their commercial interests which really differ in few ways from any one else's.

To have to nail down what culture is is very difficult and to isolate one nations culture from another is even more so. Whistling the tune from 'The Twilight Zone' for example is fairly universal (Sorry Haleyanne, I've been doing that for about as long as I can remember) but I think its on the right track as a description of culture since its a description of something understood and shared by the people of a culture.
Of course it seasier to identify specific aspects of Danish culture because Denmark is so small and insular and easily defined... America, sprawling, global, one vast fairly transparent ethnic family, is less so.


In my opinion, such a change is very common here. I know lots of people who did this (I did it myself though I wasn't actually that old) and I think it makes an awful lot of difference where in Europe you are...

editted to fix a link