Full Version: To Play or Not to Play
On Wednesday, June 29, Texas Ranger Pitcher had an altercation with two Fox Sports camera men at Ameriquest Field 
(somehow I liked the Ball Park in Arlington better) in Arlington. One of the cameramen went to the hospital.
Commissioner Bud Seelig fined Rogers $50,000.00 and issued a 20 game suspension. The players union appealed the suspension, meaning Rogers can play—including in the All Star Game, until the appeal is settled. Meanwhile, Rogers has issued an apology.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/12051979.htm
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/12041872.htm
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/12074197.htm
Rogers has a 9-4 record with a league 5th best Earned Run Average (ERA).
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching?league=mlb
Meanwhile, it seems Fox Sports plans a little more than ordinary dog and pony show before the game and Rogers doesn’t seem to fit in, American League All Star Manager, Terry Francona chose Rogers as one of his pitchers after the incident with the two cameramen.
Although it was unsaid in the Fox Sports story quoted below (but mentioned in several other local stories the past week), my guess is that all this has something to do with the thought—whether right or wrong—that celebrities, including athletes, should be role models for kids. Never mind that Ty Cobb, Pete Rose and others have failed to meet this standard.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/12084241.htm
QUESTIONS FOR DEBATE:
1. Has Kenny Rogers earned the right to participate in the All Star Game as Terry Francona has suggested?
2. If Rogers has earned the right through his pitching, is that right nullified by his recent bad behavior as Joe Buck and Tim McCarver seem to be implying?
3. Is Fox Sports out of line in suggesting that Rogers not play?
4. Is it necessary or desirable that celebrities, like Rogers, be good role models for kids? If yes, to what extent.
Note: Fort Worth Star Telegram articles require registration, but it's free.
(somehow I liked the Ball Park in Arlington better) in Arlington. One of the cameramen went to the hospital. Commissioner Bud Seelig fined Rogers $50,000.00 and issued a 20 game suspension. The players union appealed the suspension, meaning Rogers can play—including in the All Star Game, until the appeal is settled. Meanwhile, Rogers has issued an apology.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/12051979.htm
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/12041872.htm
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/12074197.htm
Rogers has a 9-4 record with a league 5th best Earned Run Average (ERA).
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/pitching?league=mlb
Meanwhile, it seems Fox Sports plans a little more than ordinary dog and pony show before the game and Rogers doesn’t seem to fit in, American League All Star Manager, Terry Francona chose Rogers as one of his pitchers after the incident with the two cameramen.
Although it was unsaid in the Fox Sports story quoted below (but mentioned in several other local stories the past week), my guess is that all this has something to do with the thought—whether right or wrong—that celebrities, including athletes, should be role models for kids. Never mind that Ty Cobb, Pete Rose and others have failed to meet this standard.
QUOTE
For the first time, the baseball All-Star Game will feature a "red carpet" pregame show modeled on the Academy Awards' arrival hoopla. In turn, each All-Star will parade into Detroit's Comerica Park past a horde of cameramen recording every move.
You can imagine how welcome Kenny Rogers will be if he decides to show up.
<snip>
Last week, the Rangers' ace took to vigilantism against shooters, behavior usually reserved for Charles Bronson on late-night reruns of Death Wish. Fox would rather have Rogers stay home than tarnish the summer's top-rated primetime event.
‘We're not that desperate for ratings,’ Fox Sports president Ed Goren said Wednesday, agreeing with announcers Tim McCarver and Joe Buck, who also believe Rogers would be a party crasher at a usually festive event. ‘This is a celebration of a great game, and it's the greatest of all All-Star games. I think what we're all saying is you don't need any distractions.’
<snip>
American League manager Terry Francona said Thursday he'll choose Red Sox starter Matt Clement if any AL pitcher chooses not to play. But the Boston skipper was diplomatic about Rogers' plans.
If he decides to pull out of the All-Star Game for obvious reasons, that is something I would certainly respect, Francona said. ‘If he decides to pitch ... that is something I would also respect. He's earned that right. Is it going to bring some attention that's not completely positive attention? Yes. I think that's just stating the obvious.
You can imagine how welcome Kenny Rogers will be if he decides to show up.
<snip>
Last week, the Rangers' ace took to vigilantism against shooters, behavior usually reserved for Charles Bronson on late-night reruns of Death Wish. Fox would rather have Rogers stay home than tarnish the summer's top-rated primetime event.
‘We're not that desperate for ratings,’ Fox Sports president Ed Goren said Wednesday, agreeing with announcers Tim McCarver and Joe Buck, who also believe Rogers would be a party crasher at a usually festive event. ‘This is a celebration of a great game, and it's the greatest of all All-Star games. I think what we're all saying is you don't need any distractions.’
<snip>
American League manager Terry Francona said Thursday he'll choose Red Sox starter Matt Clement if any AL pitcher chooses not to play. But the Boston skipper was diplomatic about Rogers' plans.
If he decides to pull out of the All-Star Game for obvious reasons, that is something I would certainly respect, Francona said. ‘If he decides to pitch ... that is something I would also respect. He's earned that right. Is it going to bring some attention that's not completely positive attention? Yes. I think that's just stating the obvious.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/12084241.htm
QUESTIONS FOR DEBATE:
1. Has Kenny Rogers earned the right to participate in the All Star Game as Terry Francona has suggested?
2. If Rogers has earned the right through his pitching, is that right nullified by his recent bad behavior as Joe Buck and Tim McCarver seem to be implying?
3. Is Fox Sports out of line in suggesting that Rogers not play?
4. Is it necessary or desirable that celebrities, like Rogers, be good role models for kids? If yes, to what extent.
Note: Fort Worth Star Telegram articles require registration, but it's free.
1. Has Kenny Rogers earned the right to participate in the All Star Game as Terry Francona has suggested?
On the playing field, yes Rogers has earned the right to make the All-Star team.
2. If Rogers has earned the right through his pitching, is that right nullified by his recent bad behavior as Joe Buck and Tim McCarver seem to be implying?
Yes, Rogers has hurt the game with his recent behavior. Baseball is a sport and all of its members should participate in taking care of the game. For the good of the game Rogers should work out a deal that shows that he was an All-Star in 2005 and chose not to participate.
3. Is Fox Sports out of line in suggesting that Rogers not play?
Not entirely but they should have kept this out of the headlines and negotiated behind the scenes.
4. Is it necessary or desirable that celebrities, like Rogers, be good role models for kids? If yes, to what extent.
Baseball players and other celebrities do not need to be good role models for kids, but they should be held accountable for their actions. These athletes need to show more respoect for their sports and realize that as members of their lite organizations thnat they are under greater scrutiny and held to a certain standard.
Now Rogers is in a very large group of athletes that have damaged their sport by their actions. He is simply the flavor of the week.
He also has the right to show up and take his spot. The power is his.
Although I think the punishment was too light, he should be able to play.
The fans voted him in, he's a good pitcher, and MLB agreed to the current collective bargaining agreement that, however goofy, allows this appeals process.
Finally, the all-star game has nothing to do with the regular season (except the winner hosting the first game of the World Series). I can't see banning anyone from basically, a media event.
With that being said, the double-standards are as stinky as they ever were. Who has hurt the game more? Pete Rose or Kenny Rogers?
Not to get on the Pete rant, but Pete got the same punishment as the 8 guys who took money to blow a world series. Pete sucked big-time as a manager, so he couldn't affect the outcome of a game on his best day. And everything has shown no game was ever affected by his betting on his own team (there has never been any indication of him betting as a player - where he could have potentially affected the game). Yet Pete got banned for damaging the integrity of the game (as if baseball has any).
But prima-donna idiots can beat up fans, the media, and thier wives with little or no consequences.
The fans voted him in, he's a good pitcher, and MLB agreed to the current collective bargaining agreement that, however goofy, allows this appeals process.
Finally, the all-star game has nothing to do with the regular season (except the winner hosting the first game of the World Series). I can't see banning anyone from basically, a media event.
With that being said, the double-standards are as stinky as they ever were. Who has hurt the game more? Pete Rose or Kenny Rogers?
Not to get on the Pete rant, but Pete got the same punishment as the 8 guys who took money to blow a world series. Pete sucked big-time as a manager, so he couldn't affect the outcome of a game on his best day. And everything has shown no game was ever affected by his betting on his own team (there has never been any indication of him betting as a player - where he could have potentially affected the game). Yet Pete got banned for damaging the integrity of the game (as if baseball has any).
But prima-donna idiots can beat up fans, the media, and thier wives with little or no consequences.
If he had just shoved a cameraman and that was the end of it, I might be willing to agree. What he did constitutes assault. Its time for baseball to own up to some of its double standards and tell this jerk he can't play in the all star game. He earned his way onto the team, he also earned his ticket off.
That would be analagous to me punching out a co-worker then still attending an employee of the year banquet. It doesn't mean I didn't earn employee of the year but what example does that set for the company?
The only thing that keeps me watching baseball nowadays is the fact that my team, the Astros, seem to stay out of that mess.
And Fox Sports isn't out of line because their job is to comment on things that happen in and around sports. Sometimes advocacy is involved and I see that being no different here.
That would be analagous to me punching out a co-worker then still attending an employee of the year banquet. It doesn't mean I didn't earn employee of the year but what example does that set for the company?
The only thing that keeps me watching baseball nowadays is the fact that my team, the Astros, seem to stay out of that mess.
And Fox Sports isn't out of line because their job is to comment on things that happen in and around sports. Sometimes advocacy is involved and I see that being no different here.
QUOTE(Doclotus @ Jul 9 2005, 10:55 AM)
If he had just shoved a cameraman and that was the end of it, I might be willing to agree. What he did constitutes assault. Its time for baseball to own up to some of its double standards and tell this jerk he can't play in the all star game. He earned his way onto the team, he also earned his ticket off.
And Fox Sports isn't out of line because their job is to comment on things that happen in and around sports. Sometimes advocacy is involved and I see that being no different here.
I absolutely agree. Ron Artest was suspended without pay for the rest of the season, and he was actually provoked by some idiot who shouted obscenities and threw beer at him. Artest's actions are at least somewhat justifiable; Rogers' actions are nothing but an unprovoked assault. Kenny Rogers lashed out at a person who was just doing his job. He got away with a very light sentence because he did it to a cameraman, not a fan; if he would do what he did to a fan he would be banned for the rest of the year. Definitely a double standard here.
1. Has Kenny Rogers earned the right to participate in the All Star Game as Terry Francona has suggested?
I think Kenny Rogers has earned the right to participate in the All Star Game. Rogers, however, wasn’t chosen by the fans as someone suggested.
http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?n...id=478568&rfi=6
2. If Rogers has earned the right through his pitching, is that right nullified by his recent bad behavior as Joe Buck and Tim McCarver seem to be implying?
Whether or not Rogers would be wise to withdraw is another question entirely, but until the suspension appeal runs its course, along with possible criminal charges, he has not forfeited his right to play.
BTW: Pete Rose may have forfeited his place as an actual participant in baseball, but to deny the person who got more hits than anyone else in baseball (without the use of steroids, I might add) a place in the Hall of Fame, renders Cooperstown town a meaningless symbol of political pull.
3. Is Fox Sports out of line in suggesting that Rogers not play?
As Doc pointed out, Fox Sports could have handled this behind the scenes. While they are under an obligation to report Rogers’ actions last week, they are equally obligated--in the interest of completeness and fairness--to point out positive aspects of Rogers’ career. For example, Rogers pitched a perfect game on July 28, 1994. Since 1880, there have been only sixteen perfect games pitched in the major leagues. While the boys at Fox Sports are battering Rogers, they should not let it override fullness and objectivity.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-perfect-...in-baseball.htm
4. Is it necessary or desirable that celebrities, like Rogers, be good role models for kids? If yes, to what extent.
Rather indicative of the sentiment that athletes should be role models is this jeer in this morning’s Fort Worth Star Telegram.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/opinion/local1/12094427.htm
Link requires registration.
Unless I’m missing something, the woman who wrote this has more influence over her children than Kenny Rogers. If she and other parents don’t, then that’s the real “shame.” It’s unlikely that kids are going to go out and start punching people just because Rogers did so.
Charles Barkley mentioned the role model thing a few years ago. As Ron Cook of the Pittsburg Post-Gazette put it:
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05081/475470.stm
While I agree with Barkley in general, in a de facto sense, all adults are role models for children. I would submit, however, that there are tiers of responsibility. Parents are the first tier followed by teachers, clerics, law enforcement officers, etc.
I would place elected public officials next in line, especially when it comes to public—not private—behavior.
Celebrities, whether athletes or Courtney Love, come in toward the back of the pack.
I think Kenny Rogers has earned the right to participate in the All Star Game. Rogers, however, wasn’t chosen by the fans as someone suggested.
QUOTE
Terry Francona has taken his share of hits on the national radio sports talk shows in the past few days.
The Boston Red Sox manager and New Brighton High School graduate has been criticized for putting Texas Rangers left-hander Kenny Rogers on the American League pitching staff for next Tuesday's All-Star Game at Comerica Park in Detroit.
<snip>
There is one problem with the criticism: Francona had no say in putting Rogers on the AL squad as he was elected in a vote of league players, managers and coaches.
<snip>
Fans voted for the starting eight position players and designated hitter along with the final player on the roster. Players, coaches and managers selected eight position players, one DH, five starting pitchers and three relievers.
The Boston Red Sox manager and New Brighton High School graduate has been criticized for putting Texas Rangers left-hander Kenny Rogers on the American League pitching staff for next Tuesday's All-Star Game at Comerica Park in Detroit.
<snip>
There is one problem with the criticism: Francona had no say in putting Rogers on the AL squad as he was elected in a vote of league players, managers and coaches.
<snip>
Fans voted for the starting eight position players and designated hitter along with the final player on the roster. Players, coaches and managers selected eight position players, one DH, five starting pitchers and three relievers.
http://www.timesonline.com/site/news.cfm?n...id=478568&rfi=6
2. If Rogers has earned the right through his pitching, is that right nullified by his recent bad behavior as Joe Buck and Tim McCarver seem to be implying?
Whether or not Rogers would be wise to withdraw is another question entirely, but until the suspension appeal runs its course, along with possible criminal charges, he has not forfeited his right to play.
BTW: Pete Rose may have forfeited his place as an actual participant in baseball, but to deny the person who got more hits than anyone else in baseball (without the use of steroids, I might add) a place in the Hall of Fame, renders Cooperstown town a meaningless symbol of political pull.
3. Is Fox Sports out of line in suggesting that Rogers not play?
As Doc pointed out, Fox Sports could have handled this behind the scenes. While they are under an obligation to report Rogers’ actions last week, they are equally obligated--in the interest of completeness and fairness--to point out positive aspects of Rogers’ career. For example, Rogers pitched a perfect game on July 28, 1994. Since 1880, there have been only sixteen perfect games pitched in the major leagues. While the boys at Fox Sports are battering Rogers, they should not let it override fullness and objectivity.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-perfect-...in-baseball.htm
4. Is it necessary or desirable that celebrities, like Rogers, be good role models for kids? If yes, to what extent.
Rather indicative of the sentiment that athletes should be role models is this jeer in this morning’s Fort Worth Star Telegram.
QUOTE
Jeers: To Texas Rangers pitcher Kenny Rogers for his outrageous display of unsportsmanlike conduct. Throwing a fit and assaulting the media once again demonstrated that we're overpaying these men who give the word athlete a bad meaning. And to think that our children look up to these "heroes"? What a shame!
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/opinion/local1/12094427.htm
Link requires registration.
Unless I’m missing something, the woman who wrote this has more influence over her children than Kenny Rogers. If she and other parents don’t, then that’s the real “shame.” It’s unlikely that kids are going to go out and start punching people just because Rogers did so.
Charles Barkley mentioned the role model thing a few years ago. As Ron Cook of the Pittsburg Post-Gazette put it:
QUOTE
Former NBA star Charles Barkley is a man who was ahead of his time.
‘I don't believe professional athletes should be role models,’ he said more than 10 years ago. ‘I believe parents should be role models.’
Barkley was right then. His words are even more right now.
‘I don't believe professional athletes should be role models,’ he said more than 10 years ago. ‘I believe parents should be role models.’
Barkley was right then. His words are even more right now.
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05081/475470.stm
While I agree with Barkley in general, in a de facto sense, all adults are role models for children. I would submit, however, that there are tiers of responsibility. Parents are the first tier followed by teachers, clerics, law enforcement officers, etc.
I would place elected public officials next in line, especially when it comes to public—not private—behavior.
Celebrities, whether athletes or Courtney Love, come in toward the back of the pack.
I'm torn. I don't think that he should play or attend, but seems like he has a "right" under the agreement. Did anyone hear David Wells' comments on this?
Yes, David Wells actually compared that cameraman, a guy doing his job with permission to be there, a pass hanging around his neck, to a rapist, implying that Rogers is analogous to a rape victim. What a jerk.
If I wasn't looking forward to seeing 2 white sox pitchers so much, I'd like to see Francona pitch Rodgers for the full nine innings, let the NL hitters tee off hitter after hitter, and refuse to take him out of the game. That would really screw up his mind and his game.
QUOTE
PROVIDENCE, R.I. — Boston pitcher David Wells said he understands why Texas pitcher Kenny Rogers shoved two cameramen and said he would have done the same thing.
Wells compared Rogers' situation to a sexual assault, saying quote -- "no is no" whatever the circumstances. Wells made his comments yesterday on Rhode Island radio station W-S-K-O
Wells compared Rogers' situation to a sexual assault, saying quote -- "no is no" whatever the circumstances. Wells made his comments yesterday on Rhode Island radio station W-S-K-O
Yes, David Wells actually compared that cameraman, a guy doing his job with permission to be there, a pass hanging around his neck, to a rapist, implying that Rogers is analogous to a rape victim. What a jerk.
If I wasn't looking forward to seeing 2 white sox pitchers so much, I'd like to see Francona pitch Rodgers for the full nine innings, let the NL hitters tee off hitter after hitter, and refuse to take him out of the game. That would really screw up his mind and his game.
QUOTE
PROVIDENCE, R.I. — Boston pitcher David Wells said he understands why Texas pitcher Kenny Rogers shoved two cameramen and said he would have done the same thing.
Wells compared Rogers' situation to a sexual assault, saying quote -- "no is no" whatever the circumstances. Wells made his comments yesterday on Rhode Island radio station W-S-K-O
Wells compared Rogers' situation to a sexual assault, saying quote -- "no is no" whatever the circumstances. Wells made his comments yesterday on Rhode Island radio station W-S-K-O
Carlito,
Thanks for the information on David Wells. His comments were over the top. Although they were uttereds in denfnse of Kenny Rogers, I don't think Rogers would embrace them.
This is an update
QUOTE
ARLINGTON - Kenny Rogers is going to the All-Star Game.
Rogers' acceptance of his All-Star invitation has been in question since before the teams were even officially selected after he attacked two cameramen on June 29. The Rangers' left-hander declined to comment on his decision before leaving [My edit:Ameriquest Field The Ballpark in Arlington] in Arlington on Sunday, but Rangers public relations director Gregg Elkin confirmed that Rogers will attend Tuesday's All-Star Game at Comerica Park in Detroit.
Rogers' acceptance of his All-Star invitation has been in question since before the teams were even officially selected after he attacked two cameramen on June 29. The Rangers' left-hander declined to comment on his decision before leaving [My edit:
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/12105560.htm
(Link requires registration)
I’m not going to comment either way on the wisdom Rogers’ decision to show up. I will, however, venture that opposition has come from a misguided public that sees celebrities as primary role models and Fox Sports desire that Rogers not rain on their pre-game parade.
To those who clamor for sports figures to be good role models for kids, I would say to parents, start doing your jobs and you won’t have to worry about it. I’m even less concerned about Fox Sports' pre-game hoopla. Perhaps they should scrap current plans and just show footage of Rogers along with other great baseball “role models” like Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Pete Rose, Roberto Alomar, Albert Belle, ad infinitum.
Note: I’m not excusing Rogers’ behavior. He should eventually pay a fine and serve a suspension, after baseball’s brand of due process has run its course. After all I have been a true blue union and due process supporter all my life.
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