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Christopher
While I always thought Clinton was smooth I always found Reagan to be the most inspirational speaker--even though i haven't always agreed with his actions.

The January 25, 1974 "Shining City Upon A Hill" speech is one of my favorites to either read or hear. My second would be Washington's farewell address.

I would be hard pressed to pick my favoriteAmerican political/philosophical writer and by default would have to go with Paine.

Who was Americas greatest speaker, doesn't have to be a politician but it does have to concern this nation.

What writer best represents what America means to you and of course why?




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Julian
QUOTE(christopher @ Jul 21 2005, 05:30 AM)
I would be hard pressed to pick my favoriteAmerican political/philosophical writer and by default would have to go with Paine.
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Thomas Paine biography
Would that be the same American who was born in England, lived there until he was 19, to become a sailor, came back and lived there again until he was 27, moved to America for just over a decade years, then moved to France for at least another decade, only spending his last seven years prior to his death actualy in America?
I can see how Paine was a great political/philosophical writer, and that he had a huge influence on the birth and direction of America. He may even have taken American citizenship at some point (though what that meant in the 18th and 19th centuries with little in the way of formalised passport systems, I do not know.) But I don't quite see how any of this makes him a uniquely American philospoher any more than a uniquely British or French one.

Who was Americas greatest speaker, doesn't have to be a politician but it does have to concern this nation.
I would say it was a tie between Abraham Lincoln (for the Gettysburg Address) and Martin Luther King (for "I have a dream..."). I would also say that no white American has said anything very remarkable (oratorically speaking, mind you) since Lincoln died, because as far as I can tell he was about the last mainstream politician to write his own speech.

What writer best represents what America means to you and of course why?
I've just started reading James Ellroy's Dudley Smith Trilogy (comprising The Big Nowhere, L.A. Confidential and White Jazz). They are compelling, densely plotted and require concentration to follow, and even then it's hard to know whether you really understand what's going on. I'd say that was a pretty good reflection of a lot of what I've seen of the USA on visits there - that's not a criticism, even if it isn't the glowing and unqualified praise that America constantly seems to fish for.
Also, I think Mark Twain (though I am not a fantastically well-versed reader of his) captures rural America better than anyone.
And someone like W C Fields or Groucho Marx is as funny as anyone ever born.
Christopher
QUOTE
I would also say that no white American has said anything very remarkable (oratorically speaking, mind you) since Lincoln died, because as far as I can tell he was about the last mainstream politician to write his own speech.
An absolutely fabulous point to consider Julian

Any trained actor can be Shakespeare's HenryIV, but probably be murdered by Bill the Butcher if he tried it in person.
I suppose that Paine's writing is so influential to where my politics heads towards rates him as my pick.

I will have to check out Ellroy right after I read I am Legend.

Twain represents not just America for his folk appeal but as a sarcasm.

Groucho holds up well and I think that many years from now will still be spoken of.


interesting....
Erasmussimo
Who was Americas greatest speaker, doesn't have to be a politician but it does have to concern this nation.
It's hard to answer this question without actually hearing the delivery, something that can be done only with 20th century politicians. Of the recorded speeches I have heard, Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech is far and away the most powerful. By god, it stirs the heart! I strongly urge everybody to take a few moments and listen to it; you can get the audio here.

What writer best represents what America means to you and of course why?
Mark Twain. He captured the soul of America. From the simple decency of Huck's reaction to the evils of those around him, to the outraged disgust with the political follies of his day, Clemens brought to bear what is best in the American spirit. I particularly recommend his little-known piece "Incident in the Philippines". It bears some relevance to our adventure in Iraq.
Dontreadonme
My all time favorite single speech, though not known as a great orator per se; is General Douglas MacArthur when giving his Thayer Award Acceptance Address at the United States Military Academy at West Point. His Duty, Honor, Country speech.
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Duty,  Honor, Country.

Those three hallowed words reverently dictate what you ought to be, what you can be, what you will be. They are your rallying points: to build courage when courage seems to fail; to regain faith when there seems to be little cause for faith; to create hope when hope becomes forlorn.

Unhappily, I possess neither that eloquence of diction, that poetry of imagination, nor that brilliance of metaphor to tell you all that they mean. The unbelievers will say they are but words, but a slogan, but a flamboyant phrase. Every pedant, every demagogue, every cynic, every hypocrite, every troublemaker, and I am sorry to say, some others of an entirely different character, will try to downgrade them even to the extent of mockery and ridicule.

His speech has always embodied to me, what not only every military member should strive to be, but every citizen as well.

Great speakers overall; for early American history, I would have to go with Daniel Webster, namely his Dignity and Importance of History speech.
For recent history, Reagan, hands down, notably for his A Time for Choosing speech.
Hugo
Few from my parent's generation could exclude FDR from the list of great American speakers. FDR managed to both calm and inspire Americans in a time of economic crisis and war. Yes, I abhor many of his economic policies and despise the attack on the Constitution initiated by New Deal programs, yet I am glad FDR was our leader in the 1933-1945 time frame.


Wertz
Who was Americas greatest speaker?

Of speakers that I've actually heard, Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy, and Shirley Chisolm would all be up there. But I'm going to go with someone whose speeches I've only read: William Jennings Bryant. Whether one agrees or disagrees with him, his speeches are powerful stuff - even if delivered in a monotone (which, by all accounts, they decidedly were not), they would be stirring and stimulating.

What writer best represents what America means to you and of course why?

Walt Whitman. He was the first - and best - truly American poet. He sang this country's ideals - as well as its mountains and rivers, cities and citizens, in war and in peace. He saw in this country "the seed perfection" and gave a voice to the dream of America, welcoming and embracing all, "health, peace, salvation universal".
Titus

There are so many great names here as afar as speakers go that I can't really add to the list.

As far as writers go, Edgar Allan Poe is, by far on that top section of the list. His works represented the dark and often natural side of humanity. That life is not all sunshine and good times. That people are weird, sad, and vengeful. Good stuff.
La Herring Rouge
I went ahead and found a list of 100 great American speeches (because I like lists thumbsup.gif )

For the sake of not being redundant I won't say much about M.L. King or Lincoln, suffice it to say they are at the top...


However, on the list I found one of the two speakers/speeches I wanted to talk about.

There is something hounting, honest and genuine about Lou Gehrig's farewell speech.
I do not know if it is simply because the listener knows of his iminent death or what, but his delivery and simple language is powerful and moving to me...


Not on the list is Booker T. Washington. His "Put your bucket down.." speech is brilliant in every way. In my opinion this speeech IS america

nighttimer
QUOTE(christopher @ Jul 21 2005, 12:30 AM)
Who was Americas greatest speaker, doesn't have to be a politician but it does have to concern this nation.

What writer best represents what America means to you and of course why?



Well, to each his own, but I would be remiss if I did not say that Booker T. Washington's Atlanta Compromise speech is widely regarded among many historians as one of the worst speeches given by a prominent Black leader as it basically provided the South with cover to implement Jim Crow segregation. I think it's an awful speech in the way Washington turns a blind eye to lynching, segregation and racial injustice in exchange for a groveling offer to provide cheap labor in exchange for a little blood money.

1. Everybody else can be shy, but I don't think there's any topping Martn Luther King.

2. It used to be Richard Wright, but I've grown to develop a new respect for the way James Baldwin honestly and forthrightly addressed this nation's struggle with race and racism.

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La Herring Rouge
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Jul 22 2005, 01:15 AM)
Well, to each his own, but I would be remiss if I did not say that Booker T. Washington's Atlanta Compromise speech is widely regarded among many historians as one of the worst speeches given by a prominent Black leader as it basically provided the South with cover to implement Jim Crow segregation.  I think it's an awful speech in the way Washington turns a blind eye to lynching, segregation and racial injustice in exchange for a groveling offer to provide cheap labor in exchange for a little blood money.

1.  Everybody else can be shy, but I don't think there's any topping Martn Luther King.

2.  It used to be Richard Wright, but I've grown to develop a new respect for the way James Baldwin honestly and forthrightly addressed this nation's struggle with race and racism.

hmmm.gif
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Agreed inasmuch as THAT is one of the criticisms offered against that speech. W.E.B. Dubois was the main detractor of Washington's opinion. I, personall, disagree with that criticism. To me Washington is sending the most virtuous of messagfes about this country. "Here you are now, what are you going to do about it?"
He believes that, by steadfastly grasping for the american dream, black Americans will gain acceptance in this country. By polarizing issues and breeding discontent blacks will sit in social limbo. I happen to agree with him 100%.
If you pull up the proverbial bootstraps, put your head down and work hard you can go places in this country.

Booker T. Washington was looking 100 years in thr future for his people. He was wise enough to know things would not change in 10-20 or even 30 years.
That sort of social upheaval has never happened in history. His was the right message. Martin Luther King had the same disagreement with Malcolm X (another brilliant speaker) 100 years later. Malcolm X sought to polarize and King sought an amalgamation of cultures akin to the Washington philosophy.

Either way, I think the speech is brilliantly done. It offers a great analogy (which is the crux of the debate about his meaning) and then goes on to appeal perfectly to the wealthy whites who were his audience. He said exactly what needed to be said to convince wealthy whites that blacks could be a boon to the nation.
A great speech should be judged by its message and its ability to deliver the message.
moif
Who was Americas greatest speaker, doesn't have to be a politician but it does have to concern this nation.

Even though he 'sings' rather than speaks, I'd have to say that Bob Dylan is the 'greatest' (read most poigniant) speaker regarding America.. and then there is Johnny Cash, who is a close second.

I don't like Dylan's music very much but I recognise the genius of his words. I do like Cash, especially his more folk style music as opposed to the C&W stuff he made but I reckon Dylan's had more impact that Cash.


What writer best represents what America means to you and of course why?

Today, this would be a balance between Seymour Hersh and Stephen Ambrose.

In the past, I think the collective writers of the Constitution were perhaps the greatest American writers of all.
nighttimer
QUOTE(La Herring Rouge @ Jul 22 2005, 10:59 AM)
    He believes that, by steadfastly grasping for the american dream, black Americans will gain acceptance in this country.  By polarizing issues and breeding discontent blacks will sit in social limbo.  I happen to agree with him 100%.
    If you pull up the proverbial bootstraps, put your head down and work hard you can go places in this country.


Yes, well it's hard to pull yourself up by the bootstraps when you don't have any straps or any shoes. Blacks did put their heads down and worked hard and the only ones that benefited from it were the White slavemasters.

QUOTE
Booker T. Washington was looking 100 years in thr future for his people.  He was wise enough to know things would not change in 10-20 or even 30 years.
    That sort of social upheaval has never happened in history.  His was the right message.  Martin Luther King had the same disagreement with Malcolm X (another brilliant speaker) 100 years later.  Malcolm X sought to polarize and King sought an amalgamation of cultures akin to the Washington philosophy.


I could not disagree more. MLK was not an appeaser or an accomodationist such as Mr. Washington. Can you imagine Dr. King ever uttering a statement such as this?

...you can be sure in the future, as in the past, that you and your families will be surrounded by the most patient, faithful, law-abiding, and unresentful people that the world has seen. As we have proved our loyalty to you in the past, in nursing your children, watching by the sick-bed of your mothers and fathers, and often following them with tear-dimmed eyes to their graves, so in the future, in our humble way, we shall stand by you with a devotion that no foreigner can approach, ready to lay down our lives, if need be, in defense of yours, interlacing our industrial, commercial, civil, and religious life with yours in a way that shall make the interests of both races one. In all things that are purely social we can be as separate as the fingers, yet one as the hand in all things essential to mutual progress.

That's the mindset of someone still thinking like a slave. "We shall stand by you with a devotion that no foreigner can approach, ready to lay down our lives, if need be, defense of yours." The mind boggles that a Black man would make such a offer to the White men whom had enslaved his own people. Such servile words and groveling and bowing and scraping were never repeated by Dr. King. King did not favor armed struggle or call for violent revolution, but he was part of a revolution nevertheless. A quiet revolution where non-violent resistance and appeals to moral authority were the weapons of choice and not the gun, the knife or the bomb.

Washington was dependent upon the largesse of his White patrons to keep Tuskegee afloat and he would never say or do anything that might offend them. He knew Whites wanted to absolved of any responsibility for the destruction and harm slavery had wreaked upon Blacks. He cheerfully gave them that absolution with one eye on the bottom line of what would benefit Tuskegee University the most.

QUOTE
  Either way, I think the speech is brilliantly done.  It offers a great analogy (which is the crux of the debate about his meaning) and then goes on to appeal perfectly to the wealthy whites who were his audience.  He said exactly what needed to be said to convince wealthy whites that blacks could be a boon to the nation.


Washington was a product of his times, and it's risky trying to evaluate him by 2005 standards and his methods benefited many Negroes. However, Washington's accomodationist rhetoric and policy of appeasing Whites further enforced segregation, subjugation and second-class citizenship for Black Americans.

Wertz
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Jul 22 2005, 01:15 AM)
It used to be Richard Wright, but I've grown to develop a new respect for the way James Baldwin honestly and forthrightly addressed this nation's struggle with race and racism.
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As this is Casual Conversation, I'm going to indulge in a bit of a tangent. First, I agree that Baldwin is one of our greatest and most "American" writers. Your mention of him reminded me that he could also be a powerful speaker - and of an anecdote told by my late friend Geraldine Fitzgerald.

A further digression: Geraldine died this week (which had brought this story to the front of my mind anyway) and I have eulogized her in my LiveJournal here. She was one of the last of a dying breed: a progressive Republican (in the mold of Jacob Javits, John Lindsay, and Nelson Rockefeller) and I admired her greatly.

Anyway, Geraldine attended a dinner party thrown by Leonard Bernstein not long after the assassinations of Robert Kennedy and Martin Luther King. Most of those derided in Tom Wolfe's Radical Chic were in attendance: Jackie Onassis, Mike Nichols, Elaine May - and James Baldwin. There were quite a few others in attendance and many of them were attempting to minimize the impact of the assassinations and being a bit blasé about the political impact in general.

Baldwin, fed up with the whole direction of the conversation, got out of his chair, climbed onto the table, walked to the middle of it and, as silence descended, demanded, "When are you people going to realize what goes on in this country?"

I hadn't read any Baldwin when she told that story. I've been reading him ever since. wink2.gif
BoF
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Jul 21 2005, 11:15 PM)
1.  Everybody else can be shy, but I don't think there's any topping Martn Luther King.


The "I Have a Dream" Speech is important, because school kids memorize and recite its lines. Endurance is one of the keys.

Some have mentioned various speeches Ronald Reagan made. Someone mentioned earlier that a person other than the one making the speech often writes it. Originality is important. I do not think it is any credit to Reagan when Peggy Noonan, or someone like her, wrote the speech.

My favorite writers are Larry McMurtry and John Steinbeck. I like McMurtry because his work, especially early books like The Last Picture Show, Terms of Endearment and the Lonesome Dove series present both the stereotypical view of Texas and the modern urbane element.

I've read many of Steinbeck's works, but I think The Grapes of Wrath is still THE American novel. It was my father's favorite book. I read it when I was about 22 and it helped mold my liberal outlook.
BoF
Choosing the one speech through all American History is difficult. I just quoted this speech as part of debate on John Roberts' confirmation, but it occurred to me that it is one of the more important public speeches on record. It was made by John F. Kennedy during the 1960 Presidential Election to the Houston Ministerial Association, 9-12-1960.

There has long been speculation that Kennedy would not have been elected if he had not made this speech. If nothing else, it may have postponed our date with Richard M. Nixon sad.gif for eight years. It should have settled the often ugly issues of church/state in elections, but apparently there are some in the 21st century who haven't read or don't recognize Kennedy's wisdom.

To originality and endurance, I would add impact. Clearly Kennedy's speech impacted the 1960 election and personally, I think it was more important than his much celebrated Inaugural Address.

http://www.networker.www3.50megs.com/jfk4.html

If I were still teaching high school government, as I did from 1968-1971 (before I worked in special education) this would be required reading. smile.gif
KDANTEATER
Robert F. Kennedy or Martin Luther King Jr. ar America's greatest speakers. Martin Luther King Jr., of course, gave the famous I Have A Dream speech at the March on Washington. He led a highly successful non violence civil rights movement, and stood up for what he believed in. Robert F. Kennedy gave some great speeches as well. After King was assasinated, Robert F. Kennedy gave a speech in Indianapolis. Becuase of his speech on non violence, the people in the city did not riot. Blacks in other cities, filled with anger towards King's killer, fioted. These speakers started a movement and were both targets because they were so powerful. That is how influencial they were. People feared their words and wisdom. They did not conform, they did not back down. This is what made them great speakers and leaders.
Hugo
I don't think we should leave the last great speaker for states rights, George Wallace, out. From his 1963 Inaugural Address.

QUOTE
It is this theory of international power politic that led a group of men on the Supreme Court for the first time in American history to issue an edict, based not on legal precedent, but upon a volume, the editor of which said our Constitution is outdated and must be changed and the writers of which, some had admittedly belonged to as many as half a hundred communist-front organizations. It is this theory that led this same group of men to briefly bare the ungodly core of that philosophy in forbidding little school children to say a prayer. And we find the evidence of that ungodliness even in the removal of the words "in God we trust" from some of our dollars, which was placed there as like evidence by our founding fathers as the faith upon which this system of government was built. It is the spirit of power thirst that caused a President in Washington to take up Caesar's pen and with one stroke of it make a law. A Law which the law making body of Congress refused to pass . . . a law that tells us that we can or cannot buy or sell our very homes, except by his conditions . . . and except at HIS descretion. It is the spirit of power thirst that led the same President to launch a full offensive of twenty-five thousand troops against a university . . . of all places . . . in his own country . . . and against his own people, when this nation maintains only six thousand troops in the beleagured city of Berlin. We have witnessed such acts of "might makes right" over the world as men yielded to the temptation to play God . . . but we have never before witnessed it in America. We reject such acts as free men. We do not defy, for there is nothing to defy . . . since as free men we do not recognize any government right to give freedom . . . or deny freedom. No government erected by man has that right. As Thomas Jefferson said, "The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; no King holds the right of liberty in his hands." Nor does any ruler in American government.

     We intend, quite simply, to practice the free heritage as bequeathed to us as sons of free fathers. We intend to re-vitalize the truly new and progressive form of government that is less that two hundred years old . . . a government first founded in this nation simply and purely on faith . . . that there is a personal God who rewards good and punishes evil . . . that hard work will receive its just deserts . . . that ambition and ingenuity and incentiveness . . . and profit of such . . are admirable traits and goals . . that the individual is encouraged in his spiritual growth and from that growth arrives at a character that enhances his charity toward others and from that character and that charity so is influenced business, and labor and farmer and government. We intend to renew our faith as God-fearing men . . . not government-fearing men nor any other kind of fearing-men. We intend to roll up our sleeves and pitch in to develop this full bounty God has given us . . . to live full and useful lives and in absolute freedom from all fear. Then can we enjoy the full richness of the Great American Dream.


Later, same speech:

QUOTE
The liberals' theory that poverty, discrimination and lack of opportunity is the cause of communism is a false theory . . . if it were true the South would have been the biggest single communist bloc in the western hemisphere long ago . . . for after the great War Between the States, our people faced a desolate land of burned universities, destroyed crops and homes, with manpower depleted and crippled, and even the mule, which was required to work the land, was so scarce that whole communities shared one animal to make the spring plowing. There were no government handouts, no Marshall Plan aid, no coddling to make sure that our people would not suffer; instead the South was set upon by the vulturous carpetbagger and federal troops, all loyal Southerners were denied the vote at the point of bayonet, so that the infamous, illegal 14th Amendment might be passed. There was no money, no food and no hope of either. But our grandfathers bent their knee only in church and bowed their head only to God.

     Not for a single instant did they ever consider the easy way of federal dictatorship and amalgamation in return for fat bellies. They fought. They dug sweet roots from the ground with their bare hands and boiled them in iron pots . . . . they gathered poke salad from the woods and acorns from the ground. They fought. They followed no false doctrine . . . they knew what the wanted . . and they fought for freedom! They came up from their knees in the greatest disply of sheer nerve, grit and guts that has ever been set down in the pages of written history . . . and they won! The great writer, Rudyard Kipling wrote of them, that: "There in the Southland of the United States of America, lives the greatest fighting breed of man . . . in all the world!"


Finally, same speech:

QUOTE
I will apply the old sound rule of our fathers, that anything worthy of our defense is worthy of one hundred percent of our defense. I have been taught that freedom meant freedom from any threat or fear of government. I was born in that freedom, I was raised in that freedom . . . I intend to live live in that freedom . . . and God willing, when I die, I shall leave that freedom to my children . . . as my father left it to me.


If only the man had overcome racism earlier and fought the tyranny of the federal government without defending the tyranny of state governments.
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