Full Version: Small pox Vaccinations
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I read today 10,000 doses of the Small Pox Vaccine was delivered to Chicago today. It was delivered to a secure place. I read where Small Pox is deadly which I knew but what I found disturbing was the vaccination can also be deadly. It seems to me a "Catch 22" Your damned if you do but damned if you don't. And it is a precaution of a terrorist attack of the virus. Do we really need this vaccine? Do we want to risk ourselves? I am not sure if I want to have a vaccine that could be deadly. 
This is one of my favorite topics and I've been following it closely since the beginning. I have some quotes around here somewhere that I read yesterday that you might find interesting but I'll post them here. 
Thanks for finding that link, Danya! I think I'm going to leave this thread open for the reason that there were a number of people who debated in the old one that have not been back here. It's hard to debate with people who won't respond. 
ok...here is part of an interesting article from last month, Since then there have been many hospitals and doctors that agree and none that I've found that have disagreed in any news articles.
NYTIMES
I have some more points to add...brb.
QUOTE
As health experts continue to express doubts about President Bush's plan for smallpox vaccinations, two major hospitals have already refused to go along with the program, and several others say they have not yet decided.
The two hospitals are Grady Memorial in Atlanta and Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, Va. Both say the risks of the vaccine are too significant to allow them to inoculate their employees under the new federal guidelines.
"No. 1, this is not a safe vaccine," said Dr. Carlos del Rio, chief of medical services at Grady Hospital and a professor of infectious disease. "This is a vaccine that has known complications and known side effects."....
For every million recipients, 15 will have life-threatening reactions, including one or two deaths, and hundreds will have severe rashes or other illnesses.
The vaccine is made from a live virus, vaccinia, a relative of smallpox. It is administered with a special needle that creates an open sore. For three weeks the virus is highly contagious and can cause infection, either in the person who received the vaccine or other people in close contact.
At Virginia Commonwealth University, officials said there was no imminent threat of smallpox. "Why put our employees, their families and our patients at risk of complications?" said Dr. Hermes A. Kontos, the chief executive of Virginia Commonwealth
The two hospitals are Grady Memorial in Atlanta and Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, Va. Both say the risks of the vaccine are too significant to allow them to inoculate their employees under the new federal guidelines.
"No. 1, this is not a safe vaccine," said Dr. Carlos del Rio, chief of medical services at Grady Hospital and a professor of infectious disease. "This is a vaccine that has known complications and known side effects."....
For every million recipients, 15 will have life-threatening reactions, including one or two deaths, and hundreds will have severe rashes or other illnesses.
The vaccine is made from a live virus, vaccinia, a relative of smallpox. It is administered with a special needle that creates an open sore. For three weeks the virus is highly contagious and can cause infection, either in the person who received the vaccine or other people in close contact.
At Virginia Commonwealth University, officials said there was no imminent threat of smallpox. "Why put our employees, their families and our patients at risk of complications?" said Dr. Hermes A. Kontos, the chief executive of Virginia Commonwealth
NYTIMES
I have some more points to add...brb.
QUOTE
The critics' chief worries were that vaccinated health workers could suffer side effects themselves or accidentally infect their own family members or patients with the vaccinia virus. If they or a family member suffered a bad reaction — whether resulting in a day off work because of fever or a rare but life-threatening case of encephalitis or generalized vaccinia — they might not be covered by workers' compensation, they said....
<snip>
Dr. Louis M. Bell, chief of pediatrics at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, in explaining his hospital's decision not to join the plan, said, "The virus might spread from the arm of a health care worker to a hospitalized child."
From 1907 to 1975, Dr. Bell said, citing a study that he said would soon appear in The New England Journal of Medicine, 85 children and adults were infected by health care workers shedding virus, and 9 of them died. The risk was greatest to hospitalized children. Hospitals like his now contain many children on cancer chemotherapy or undergoing organ transplants, so the risks are greater, and there are more immuno-compromised health workers.
<snip>
Dr. Louis M. Bell, chief of pediatrics at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, in explaining his hospital's decision not to join the plan, said, "The virus might spread from the arm of a health care worker to a hospitalized child."
From 1907 to 1975, Dr. Bell said, citing a study that he said would soon appear in The New England Journal of Medicine, 85 children and adults were infected by health care workers shedding virus, and 9 of them died. The risk was greatest to hospitalized children. Hospitals like his now contain many children on cancer chemotherapy or undergoing organ transplants, so the risks are greater, and there are more immuno-compromised health workers.
The point is that even if you don't get the vaccine there is a possibility of you catching it from someone who has. OH, and if you do die or suffer a terrible result of the vaccine the Pharmacy companies can't be sued. The Homeland Security Act was sure to think of the Pharmacutical companies and gave them a free pass.NY Times
Which brings me to my last point....
This sounds like another "preemptive strike." 
It is getting really hard to rank all the bizarre ideas that have flowed from our government since 9/11. This one is near the top, though.
In this little world of ours there are a huge number* of known viruses and bacteria. Some are deadly some are not. So our psychic government, in all its wisdom, decided that small pox is our biggest threat. OK, I'm sure there was some actual methodology used, but I can't figure out what it is.
This is just too weird for me to grasp. Our government is willing to risk infecting and possibly killing it's own people "just because maybe"? That is not good enough for me. I can't be OK with a preemptive strike against small pox at the risk of American lives.
I mean, small pox hasn't even violated any UN resolutions
Programs and initiatives like this make me think the terrorists are winning. They have caused us to change our lives completely and act like a bunch of chicken littles
*tried to get an estimate but could not find one - even at the CDC.
It is getting really hard to rank all the bizarre ideas that have flowed from our government since 9/11. This one is near the top, though.
In this little world of ours there are a huge number* of known viruses and bacteria. Some are deadly some are not. So our psychic government, in all its wisdom, decided that small pox is our biggest threat. OK, I'm sure there was some actual methodology used, but I can't figure out what it is.
This is just too weird for me to grasp. Our government is willing to risk infecting and possibly killing it's own people "just because maybe"? That is not good enough for me. I can't be OK with a preemptive strike against small pox at the risk of American lives.
I mean, small pox hasn't even violated any UN resolutions
Programs and initiatives like this make me think the terrorists are winning. They have caused us to change our lives completely and act like a bunch of chicken littles
*tried to get an estimate but could not find one - even at the CDC.
QUOTE
The Bush administration is hoping that its promise of a guaranteed buyer will entice pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies to develop vaccines and treatments to counter bioterrorism threats, officials said yesterday.
The multibillion-dollar proposal announced in President Bush's State of the Union address represents an unprecedented effort to rapidly expand the nation's medical arsenal against deadly agents such as smallpox and anthrax. The proposal has been named "Project BioShield."
The multibillion-dollar proposal announced in President Bush's State of the Union address represents an unprecedented effort to rapidly expand the nation's medical arsenal against deadly agents such as smallpox and anthrax. The proposal has been named "Project BioShield."
Washington Post
Now, I'm not saying being protected is a bad idea. But how do you guarentee the need for these vaccines and why would you want to? Just give them the damn money for the research if that's the problem...why force people to buy them without an outbreak of some kind. Why turn bio-terrorism into a lucrative business for anyone?
Thanks to the Homeland Security Provision they have nothing to lose.
QUOTE
...under the provision, if an ingredient is listed on a vaccine label, the manufacturer cannot be held liable for something that happens as a consequence of the ingredient. It's up to the physician prescribing the vaccine to weigh the dangers involved, he said.
We put that in there because if these companies are being sued by trial lawyers, they are going to be reluctant to put life-saving medicines on the market,'' Diamond said.
We put that in there because if these companies are being sued by trial lawyers, they are going to be reluctant to put life-saving medicines on the market,'' Diamond said.
Which is incredibly lucky for the drug companies because it so happens they were facing law suits being brought by parents of autistic children who believe there is a link between autism and Thimerosal, an ingredient that was included in many childhood vaccines. This has switched the burden of lawsuits from the drug companies to government.
Austin
We ought to just make a law where all them evil drug companies cannot make a profit. Let's see how many drugs we have available then.
I know it's not a safe vaccine. However, I already was vaccinated when I was a child though and I don't anticipate further complications with a second vaccination.
Many of our vaccinations pose risks -- the Polio vaccine is a live virus also. I would much rather my family take the Small Pox vaccine to prepare for a potential epidemic that is very likely to occur. We take risks with vaccines everyday for diseases that aren't as great a threat to our country as Small Pox.
We also have a right to refuse vaccinations based on religious beliefs. I believe that if anyone truly doesn't want the vaccine they should be permitted to refuse -- it's their lives. I'm personally going to get the vaccine.
Many of our vaccinations pose risks -- the Polio vaccine is a live virus also. I would much rather my family take the Small Pox vaccine to prepare for a potential epidemic that is very likely to occur. We take risks with vaccines everyday for diseases that aren't as great a threat to our country as Small Pox.
We also have a right to refuse vaccinations based on religious beliefs. I believe that if anyone truly doesn't want the vaccine they should be permitted to refuse -- it's their lives. I'm personally going to get the vaccine.
We are talking about a vaccine for a disease that has been eradicated. The chance of getting sick or infecting someone else by getting this vaccine are large enough for me to decide they are nothing but a way for the drug companies to make money.
IF there is a smallpox outbreak somewhere in this country I would then consider the vaccine.
IF there is a smallpox outbreak somewhere in this country I would then consider the vaccine.
I respect your decision and basically agree that now isn't the time to get the vaccination.
However, I feel it's important to get the supply distributed thoughout the US so they can respond quickly to an outbreak as the result of a terrorist attack. We need to be prepared by having enough vaccine available and it located conveniently to large populations. The manufacturing time would be too great to wait until an outbreak occured.
Regarding the drug companies making money -- Companies that manufacture weapons make profits. Why should a company that is manufacturing a product to protect us not make a profit? It's very unrealistic to expect any company to produce quality materials of any kind if it's restricted from making a profit.
However, I feel it's important to get the supply distributed thoughout the US so they can respond quickly to an outbreak as the result of a terrorist attack. We need to be prepared by having enough vaccine available and it located conveniently to large populations. The manufacturing time would be too great to wait until an outbreak occured.
Regarding the drug companies making money -- Companies that manufacture weapons make profits. Why should a company that is manufacturing a product to protect us not make a profit? It's very unrealistic to expect any company to produce quality materials of any kind if it's restricted from making a profit.
I agree with you Eva. I just feel that it's wrong to try to create mass fear in order to make a buck. It's good to have the hospitals stock up just in case. I just think it wasn't tested enough to expect thousands of first response people to sign on and take it...and then make the drug companies totally immune to the consequences.
I view this more as a government contract to manufacture products and if the government didn't request and distribute the vaccine, then people wouldn't be at risk. The drug companies are responsible to an extent but it's the government that should be responsible for making sure the product is safe for distribution.
Who created the vaccine? The CDC. The government then turned to the drug companies to manufacture a government product under the specifications set by the government. Ultimately, the authority responsible for the policy should be held accountable for the consequences.
When the government approached the drug companies to contract the manufacturing of the vaccine, the drug companies wanted protection from manufacturing a product that they didn't create or test themselves. I would want the same protection if the government approached me to manufacture any products that I had no control over.
Regarding development -- I agree, drug companies shouldn't be protected from products they develop and create on their own.
It's also wrong to create mass fear and then start a vaccination program before it's necessary just to make the public feel safe. Who's creating the fear? The drug companies? The media? the government?
I think all of the above; however, I hold the media mostly accountable for the fear and the government accountable for the risks of the vaccination program once it's launched.
Who created the vaccine? The CDC. The government then turned to the drug companies to manufacture a government product under the specifications set by the government. Ultimately, the authority responsible for the policy should be held accountable for the consequences.
When the government approached the drug companies to contract the manufacturing of the vaccine, the drug companies wanted protection from manufacturing a product that they didn't create or test themselves. I would want the same protection if the government approached me to manufacture any products that I had no control over.
Regarding development -- I agree, drug companies shouldn't be protected from products they develop and create on their own.
It's also wrong to create mass fear and then start a vaccination program before it's necessary just to make the public feel safe. Who's creating the fear? The drug companies? The media? the government?
I think all of the above; however, I hold the media mostly accountable for the fear and the government accountable for the risks of the vaccination program once it's launched.
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