I think the question is pretty obvious so allow me to provide some background:

Women have said in the past that the "hour glass, bottle-blonde" models found in the pages of magazines like "People" and "Entertainment Weekly" for new perfumes and bathing suits make them feel inferior and unhappy with their own figure.


Questions for Debate:

1.) Is the same true for men (of course with male models)?

2.) What can be done to remedy the problem?

3.) Do men have any reason to feel inferior or unhappy?

1.) Is the same true for men (of course with male models)?

No- because our prestige or external feelings of self worth are not really based on looks- but success. If men who feel a bit insecure about themselves were to honestly be asked who made them feel inferior- it would be guys who were very succesful at a young age- the self made man and such.

2.) What can be done to remedy the problem?

N/A

3.) Do men have any reason to feel inferior or unhappy?

Oh, all human beings have the capacity for self loathing- and thank god for that, otherwise, where would we get the blues? What would happen to art? What would happen to wonderfully told tales of self woe?

If you use external guides to measure your self worth, you will indeed feel unhappy or inferior.

My self worth comes from within, from me being able to provide a happy and secure home for my family.

I think that some men may feel inferior, but by in large, our society does not put as much stock in a man's looks as it does in a woman's. A man does not have to be strikingly handsome to be successful in most careers - even in Hollywood there's a double standard when it comes to beauty. There's a pretty definite difference between the requirements for leading ladies and leading men: we can probably count on one hand the number of leading actresses in Hollywood who are not drop-dead gorgeous (by societal standards) and skinny, while we could probably spout of dozens upon dozens of leading men who aren't terribly handsome or extremely well-built/physically fit.

That men can get hot chicks if they are not considered attractive (or at least think they can as a result of societal standards/messages) probably has a good deal to do with a man's lack of inferiority when he sees a male model. A man's worth isn't typically measured by his physical features whereas a woman's worth typically has a lot to do with her looks (on a broad scale). Also in our society, men aren't "supposed" to be physically capable of determining whether another man is attractive or not (another double standard), so if a man feels inferior because of a male model, isn't that some sort of admission of homosexuality or something?

I really don't think it's anywhere near as serious of an issue as it is for women, but maybe my perception is skewed since I've never been a man

I agree with both Kmsouthern and Cruising Ram. I don't think men measure their appeal to women so much by their looks. I think society measures men more by their success/money/power/prestige etc.

Also, I don't think most women find "picture perfect" good looks all that appealing. None of the actors I find most attractive have model looks: Tommy Lee Jones, Dennis Quaid, Ralph Fiennes. I think it might be different for men-- at least that is what society seems to tell us.

Well this topic hits close to home for me. In my early twenties I did a pretty good bit of modeling for sportswear for Sideout, Sun Sports, and Club Sportswear, all beach volleyball attire. During this time in my life I was in fantastic shape, deep tan, and long hair.

Now that I am 32 with a career, mortgage, and a family to provide for I don't look like the person I was 10 years ago. (Can't play volleyball 5 days a week and have a career)

It doesn't make me feel inferior to see what I used to look like. Do I miss the looks and attention I got, sure who wouldn't?


I don't see this as a problem, so no remedy is needed.

If you feel unhappy or inferior do something about it. Just being active and eating right can get you in good shape. But it's really about attitude and self confidence. You can look like Adonis himself but if your attitude is in the tank it won't do anything for you.

Questions for Debate:

1.) Is the same true for men (of course with male models)?

2.) What can be done to remedy the problem?

3.) Do men have any reason to feel inferior or unhappy?

Looks can keep males and females from getting certain jobs. If you look like a janitor, don't plan on getting the sales job, much less making CEO. There are certain images that are expected in certain jobs. Not saying it is right, but it is a fact.
As long as Madison Ave. is allowed to dictate images to us, and we accept their ideas of what is right/wrong, there is nothing that can be done to remedy the "problem".
Men should feel inferior to women. We are too easily distracted by a pretty face, well proportioned body, etc. Our concentration skills are sporadic at best, at least while still young. The only thing I see as inferior in my wife is her inability to go into a store and not walk out with a new pair of shoes.

1. I suppose that anybody can feel a little uncomfortable when presented with an image of someone with an outstanding physical appearance. The same kind of feeling might come about when you see a great athlete, or a great musician, or anyone who is outstanding in some way.

2. This only becomes a problem in two situations, I think.

The first would be when you allow yourself to feel inadequate, based on the fact that you are not as pretty or not able to sing as well as the person you see. This is a matter of one's own attitude, I think. I try to just say to myself "How beautiful he is!" or "How well she dances!" rather than dwell on my own lack of these things.

The second would be some kind of external pressure is exerted to make you think you are inferior to some standard. Both sexes can face this situation. Physical beauty seems to be more of a problem for women. (Just today, I got a catalog in the mail for women's beauty products. The front cover said something about how those "on the edge of thirty" should use their "anti-aging" products. Thirty! That's so young! If women in their late twenties are being encouraged to worry about aging, and being encouraged to spend money on all kinds of worthless products because of this anxiety, something is very wrong.) I'm sure that men face other challenges. It's no secret, for example, that life is harder for men who are not very tall.

How to treat these problems? A reasonable amount of realistic self-esteem, and a disdain for artificial standards seems like a potent combination.

3. People shouldn't feel inferior or unhappy because of the unrealistic standards they see all around them. See them for what they are, and enjoy them or laugh at them as you see fit.

I don't think that our culture or other culture puts much weight in men's looks. A graying, even overweight, guy could be desirable if he's wealthy, or even just like-able. The situation is totally different than with female models. It's unfortunate.

These are interesting questions. Interesting, because they're worth pondering, but these thoughts have never even crossed my mind! When I think of male models, I think of "Zoolander." Jesus Christ and J.S. Bach are the kinds of men more likely to make me feel inferior.



I don't think that it is a problem. And I believe that everyone is responsible for their own happiness in terms of self-worth, regardless of what anyone else does to them.

Absolutely. Men and women are valued and judged by two different sets
of criteria.




Sure. And, when I see male models, I do not see them as real men.
I sort of see them as effeminate "objects." Maybe that's how men view
women models, too - "effeminate objects."



Me too. If I see someone who is so skilled at what they do, I admire them.
It is my way of sharing in their greatness.

1.) Is the same true for men (of course with male models)?
No, I don't think this is true for men - with the critical difference of yet. Most adult men alive today grew up in an environment where a six-pack referred to dad's beer and not abdominal muscles, so I think that has insulated all of us against the media imagery we're now faced with. (Which in turn has come about because women have begun to behave publicly in ways that used to be exclusive to men - appreciating physical beauty in the opposite sex on it's own and responding. Business is just using that to sell more stuff.)
The acid test of whether these media images are harmful wil be played out on the next generation, which will grow up being surrounded by largely unattainable images of what their gender is "supposed" to look like.
By the time we have a generation of young men with rates of anorexia, bulimia and body dysmorphia comparable to today's young women, we may find out too late that the ubiquitous shirtless hairless men with zero body fat (which is actually rather unhealthy) and washboard stomachs have, as well as selling us more stuff, had side effects just as negative as the ubiquitous bikini-clad hairless perpetually pert early 20s women that have been around our media for at last 40 years now.

2.) What can be done to remedy the problem?
More than anything else, we should all watch less television - especially as kids - and go do active things instead. That way, we'll not only be less exposed to the imagery, but we might also all look a little more like the role models being presented there.

3.) Do men have any reason to feel inferior or unhappy?
Men collectively don't really have any such reasons. But as individuals, every one has something to feel inferior about, just as most of us have something to feel superior about too.
I'd say this last point is one of the reasons why women have typically suffered more from negative self-image. It's not that their negatives have been any more negative than a comparable male; it's just that women have been socially and culturally discouraged from having any positives at all (outside the home, at least). Thankfully, that isn't the case so much any more.

1.) Is the same true for men (of course with male models)?

Don't think so, at least not in general. Some might, like body builder types, gay men, skinny dudes, or whoever buys into those muscle magazines and GQ.

2.) What can be done to remedy the problem?

I suppose reassessing one's life choices would be one way, if there's a recognized problem with self-image. Getting counseling where self-image is reinforced might be another, or just asking a friend to help could work. There are lots of ways for dealing with bad thoughts about oneself. Maybe just getting busy on some project would work -- it does for me.

3.) Do men have any reason to feel inferior or unhappy?

Hell yeah! There's a boatloads of reasons, from not making enough money to having a small penis. One of the big deflaters is losing a job, either through layoff or firing. Firing is likely the big one because some nimrod decided you weren't good enough to do the stupid tasks that monkeys could do. Not that this has ever happened to me Okay, it did in an automotive parts department way back when. I loved going there afterwards as a motorcycle mechanic and giving the firing boss a load of hassles about his products and service.

Monkeys could do better, dude.

And now I am the customer. Lick my boots, lackey.

This points to the hierarchy that shows up in lots of mammals. Being low on the totem pole can be a more humbling experience than is necessary, especially if those above you crow about it while stomping down on your head. It's fun in this situation to just take off, leaving the upper totems to tumble on down, unless they find (and this often happens) a replacement to torture.

Dealing with feelings of cowardice is often a male problem. You didn't fight! You ran away! You're no good, you're no good, you're no good! But then, avoiding a fight is often a darn good way to win it. Wisdom or cowardice? Depends on the situation.

As to attracting women, who knows what will do it. Maybe pheremones, maybe wealth, maybe power, maybe stability, maybe strong intellect, maybe abs like Jesus (whatever happened to that guy?), maybe respect, maybe anything. I really don't see this as a status thing or something unique to men. It's just that loneliness is such a drag, and that is universal.

One of the greatest coups for men has been the acceptance of baldness in society. It's about dang time!

Actually, unlike female models, most male models are very healthy (unless they're on 'roids). Women can achieve an "ideal" figure simply by losing weight (and being born with the right frame), but men hvae to put on muscle. Those guys with the washboard stomachs? They're very healthy. Even if their body fat percentage is as low as 6%, they're still far from unhealthy.

I've been adhering to a strict fitness program for 10 weeks now, and I almost have the figure you're referring to as unhealthy. Yet I don't under-eat or over-eat, I eat the right things, I don't take steroids, and I don't work out 30 hours a week (more like 7).

<<1.) Is the same true for men (of course with male models)?>>

Men are judge by a different set of criteria. What group of males have the most attractive wives/girlfriends? Rich guys. Men seem to be judge more on their ability to provide rather then their physical looks.

Question for the ladies. If all things were the same who would you have a relationship with, the stud who works as a fry-boy at Burger King or the forty year old guy with a beer belly that has a Rolex on his wrist and a house on the beach?

<<2.) What can be done to remedy the problem?>>

I don't think most guys look at Brad Pitt and go "no one will ever love me cause I don't look like that!!" We tend to look at the lady on his arm.

<<3.) Do men have any reason to feel inferior or unhappy?>>

Models represent the model human, uber-menensch if you will. Since, as mentioned about, male models tend to be generally healthy, it would not hurt to try and achieve that shape. But not everyone can, such as life.

I workout a lot and still am 190 prounds, even though I'm well over six feet. I can do 10 miles in just over an hour, 80 pull ups at a time and crunches till the end of the world, and still have very little definition. No six pack for me, but I don't let that bother me, I guess it wasn't meant to be. Many people would be much more secure if they shaed that sentiment.

I spent the weekend with two very nice and good friends. She works out everyday and has a body to die for at 47, he has a big belly. He works his butt off to help around the house, he builds additions, sheds, shelves. Shovels the snow, keeps the cars working, shares in the general upkeep of HER house, in her name. He gave her a big diamond as a wedding and engagement ring. HE may not be a GQ man and there is no six-pack at all. He has a blue collar job but shows himself to be a man in all aspects of her life. THIS is important to women. It doesnt matter HOW, just show you care.

What kind of man is a 'model' man? What can a woman expect from him? A spirolina shake in the morning, a trip to the gym, then several hours in the mirror to look picture perfect, for what job or life for her?

Its equally unrealistic to expect ones wife, employed, with kids to manage and be a sex kitten, slim, fit and ultimately ready for immediate LOVE anytime day or night.
Like has been said, different things are expected from each sex, much of it unrealistic, especially for women.


Uh, let me clue you into something, female models have to maintain dangerously low unhealthy weights, at 5'10 to 6'0 they have to stay at 120 to 130, anything over that is considered fat. The camera puts on pounds, just the disadvantage of photography. Both male and female have to have muscle, male can bulk and eat, female cannot eat in this business. SHE must be skin and bones, with muscle, very difficult.
These are the women that many women are comparing themselves to.

I know NO men asking themselves if they compare to GQ models. They want to know if their penis is adequate, if they can please through technique. They look at WOMEN and gauge, if overweight , how are the boobs, a nice face?, a nice behind?, but there is little reflection on their own body.

Women are more forgiving. Bald, fat, smelly, hairy, somehow we find reasons to love, despite things we find kind of disgusting. Ive never understood the attitude of male entitlement. Like men could actually choose, and shouldnt be grateful for being loved by a woman that CHOOSES THEM and dotes on them like they were gods gift, lest one be so lucky because men are generally beasts, not easily lovable but often forgiven.
But most GQ men have no use but for sex.
Men make up for lack of asthetics in service. A good provider, a good father, a good man, a honey-do, a partner and confidant.
If women began to judge men with the criteria that men judge women, very few would ever get into bed, never mind married. ( and you would look really silly in stockings and a french maid outfit)

So then, change the oil, mow the lawn, do the hard work and let her GO to the gym, have free time and buy her beautiful things, because the values of men and women regarding each other continue to be different.
If you want a woman to be/remain beautiful and vibrant she needs time, and MEN will always be highly regarded IF they allow and encourage a woman to remain that special person they fell in love with and not burn her out. (like a worn out hag)

I doubt female models are much over 100 pounds, which is insane. Anyways, I was browsing a study recently that demostrated that most males don't even prefer that look. Some primitive part of our brain realizes that a skinny (emaciated) female is inherently unhealthy and a poor mother to our children, I guess. This appears to be a subconscious process.

I don't have the journal with me now, but I think they had guys only look at the face in a photo. Males prefered females that were at a healthy weight. Maybe because they look happy in the photo sine they're not starving?

On a final note, I never saw the allure in female models, they look to much like pre-pubescent boys with boobs to me...

I think women have been more conditioned to respond to advertising than men are -- if we use X product, it will make us more alluring, or whatever. I agree with the guys who've posted her saying that men are more self-conscious about their level of success than about their bodies.

The other night I was listening to the oldies station and heard an old song called "Bobby's Girl." If you remember it, the lyrics go like this:

I wanna be Bobby's girl,
I wanna be Bobby's girl,
That's the most important thing to me;
And if I was Bobby's girl,
If I was Bobby's girl,
What a faithful, thankful girl I'd be!

Could anyone imagine a male singer warbling that he wanted to be Susie's guy, and how thankful he'd be if he were? LOL It's an assumption that MEN do the choosing when it comes to courtship, and women are supposed to be grateful to be chosen. Most men will admit, as another male poster has, that they are more swayed by a woman's looks than a woman is by a man's. With such an environment, I'd be a bit surprised that men even NOTICE male models.

During the years I was in relationships with women and lived basically IN the lesbian community, if not being OF it, I noticed that most of the same prejudices toward 'inferior' body types and 'not conventionally pretty' women still held sway. It was a lot like being with men. In fact, in some ways it was worse because women KNOW what it's like to feel unattractive before men, so you'd think they'd have a little more compassion and awareness when dealing with each other. LOL

1.) Is the same true for men (of course with male models)?
I'm not fond of generalizations in this space, but I'll take a guess and say the answer is no. My only reference is me, of course, and my friends. I guess I've reached a stage of my life where I understand fully what it would take to achieve that type of physique and that simply isn't as valuable to me as other aspects of my life.

3.) Do men have any reason to feel inferior or unhappy?
Sure, everyone does. Inferior may be too strong a word though. While I'm happy in my life and in my own skin I think everyone accepts that there are aspects of our life we would like to improve.


Preach on Brother!

1.) Is the same true for men (of course with male models)?

Only when they find out that the male model makes six figures. I don't know how but boys learn at a young age that girls are looking for success more than looks.
That's how the apes on the football team always get the prettiest girls in high school.
While this seems to be a gross stereotype I challenge you to spend some time in a igh school and see which boys get the attention.

2.) What can be done to remedy the problem?

Nothing can be done. First, there is no problem. Not that there isn't a whole lot of sex-role unfairness (on both sides) but because, as far as I'm concerned, it is all biology and we have to live with it. Millenia of evolution are hard to argue against and we have them. For whatever reasons women seem to look for stability and success and men look for curves. I have yet to hear a convincing argument that this is all environmentally stimulated response but I have read many scientific treatises supporting me.

3.) Do men have any reason to feel inferior or unhappy?

Yes, we do. We still haven't figured women out yet.

I think the problem exists in some men but for the most part it does not affect men as much as a whole the way it does to women.

I do not think the problem is big enough to rememdy, but in general know that its Hollywood and models (both genders) are paid to always look good

Sure everyone can have a pity party now and then but i dont think that models should make a person feel inferior or unhappy with their lives. Happiness in a person's life should definitely be based off of more than just physical attributes.

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I dont agree that everybody has a reason to feel inferior,that would imply that certain people must somehow be superior,this certainly is not the case we as humans are all equal,

I agree with that too. What some female supermodel is to women, some business tycoon type is to men. Alot of men too might not want to be a male model because they might think it's kinda unmanly.

I think men more envy the guy with power, money, cars and control, the man who gets what he wants, not the one necessarily with looks. For women, looks get them what they want.

Men are suppsed to conquer and win, and women are their prizes - so they have to be beautiful. It's their function as females, supposedly. So, the best looking women go to the strongest "alpha" male, and other women envy them. It's stupid, but I think that's how it works. I mean, how many women have a "trophy husband" ?

1.) Is the same true for men (of course with male models)?

No, not even close. But it is worth mentioning that things are turning slowly in that direction. The standards are higher for men today than in bygone days. Lee Majors would never have been chosen the Bionic man if he tried out for the part today...well, not unless he buffed up a heck of a lot. Men are getting their backs waxed and grooming more.

2.) What can be done to remedy the problem?

Not much. As long as there is competition for prospective mates, there will be competition for prospective mates. Women are now expected to have careers and powerful professions, too. It isn't her entire identity, looks (and youth) are still more important, but there is much more pressure and women without successful careers, who choose to stay home with their children, are often more disparaged today. On the opposite end, there is a corresponding slightly higher pressure for men to look good.