In my view, Jimmy Carter is our worst living ex-President. He has, on a consistent basis, crossed the line in undermining Presidents of both major parties. In my opinion, he's trying to overcompensate for his failed presidency by meddling in foreign affairs in ways that did not benefit former president Clinton or current president Bush.

His latest outrage is documented here.

Carter's latest statements

Carter basically says that our imprisonment of terrorists at Gitmo is a disgrace and that it has given the terrorists reason to "attack the US". He also proclaimed that the war against Iraq was "unjust".

Furthermore, Carter is making these statements on foreign soil to the foreign press which will do it's darndest to magnify his statements well out of proportion.

The questions for debate are:

1. Is Carter out of line making these statements out of the US?

2. Where does the line between "dissent" and giving "aid and comfort" to our enemy during wartime lie? Has Carter crossed this line?

3. Have any other ex-US presidents, during wartime, ever expressed such sentiments about our conduct of a war? If so, whom and when?

Let me deal with these in reverse order.

3. I don't think so. The current war in Iraq is unusual, in that it has been very controversial from Day One. For this reason, critical remarks from an ex-President are more likely.

2. No matter how much you might disgree with Carter's statements, I don't think they come anywhere near to giving comfort and aid to the enemy. If he's guilty of treason, then so are a large number of people in the United States, who agree with him.

1. I can see where it might seem in better taste for any ex-President to avoid making any kind of statements critical of a current administration. Being an ex-President seems to demand a sort of "elder statesman" quality, rising above such things. For whatever reason, Carter chose not to go this route. Maybe he should lose a few points as a public figure for not remaining aloof. What cannot be denied is that Carter is saying things that many American citizens are saying.

In the opinion of many, the situation at Guantanamo Bay is a disgrace. (There is no need to make grotesque exaggerations comparing the place to Soviet Gulags and the like, but many of us are concerned about the fact that people are being held in limbo there.) In the opinion of many, left and right, the current War in Iraq is unjustified.

You certainly have the right to criticize Carter as a President and as an ex-President as strongly as you like. That doesn't mean his statements were out of line, any more than similar statements from any other American citizen are out of line.

By the way, I don't think it is quite accurate to say that Carter claims that the situation in Guantanamo Bay has "given the terrorists reason to 'attack the US.'" That almost makes it sounds like he thinks such attacks are justified, and I am sure you did not mean to imply that he believes any such thing. From the linked article:



Bold added for emphasis.

Wow. Really? I didn't know Gerald Ford had passed away.



1. No, because President Carter is still an American citizen even on foreign soil. I don't see the drama over these remarks:

"I think what's going on in Guantanamo Bay and other places is a disgrace to the U.S.A.," he told a news conference at the Baptist World Alliance's centenary conference in Birmingham, England. "I wouldn't say it's the cause of terrorism, but it has given impetus and excuses to potential terrorists to lash out at our country and justify their despicable acts."

Carter said, however, that terrorist acts could not be justified, and that while Guantanamo "may be an aggravating factor ... it's not the basis of terrorism."

It was a news conference. Somebody asked the question and Carter answered it. Big deal. Maybe Carter read this article in yesterday's New York Times:

WASHINGTON, July 31 - As the Pentagon was making its final preparations to begin war crimes trials against four detainees at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, two senior prosecutors complained in confidential messages last year that the trial system had been secretly arranged to improve the chance of conviction and to deprive defendants of material that could prove their innocence.

Among the striking statements in the prosecutors' messages was an assertion by one that the chief prosecutor had told his subordinates that the members of the military commission that would try the first four defendants would be "handpicked" to ensure that all would be convicted.

The same officer, Capt. John Carr of the Air Force, also said in his message that he had been told that any exculpatory evidence - information that could help the detainees mount a defense in their cases - would probably exist only in the 10 percent of documents being withheld by the Central Intelligence Agency for security reasons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/01/politics...page&oref=login

Wait, wait---don't tell me. Captain Carr is part of the vast left-wing conspiracy to discredit and destroy President Bush, right?

2. Well, the line between "dissent" and giving "aid and comfort" to the enemy might be crossed had Carter shouted, "Allah Akbar" or "Death to America" but as he did neither, I sincerely doubt that some terrorist is going to say, "Oh boy! Jimmy Carter says we're justified to blow things up and kill innocents! Let's go!"

3. Hmmm...will this do?

In repudiating extremism we need to recommit ourselves to a few common-sense principles that should transcend partisan differences. First, we cannot enhance our own security if we place in jeopardy what is most precious to us, namely, the centrality of human rights in our daily lives and in global affairs. Second, we cannot maintain our historic self-confidence as a people if we generate public panic. Third, we cannot do our duty as citizens and patriots if we pursue an agenda that polarizes and divides our country. Next, we cannot be true to ourselves if we mistreat others. And finally, in the world at large we cannot lead if our leaders mislead.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselect...eech-text_x.htm

1. Is Carter out of line making these statements out of the US? I don't think it's that big of a deal that Jimmy Carter was outside the US.

2. Where does the line between "dissent" and giving "aid and comfort" to our enemy during wartime lie? Has Carter crossed this line? I think it lies when you're words actually hurt the national security. I really doubt Al-Queda waits to hear Jimmy Carter say the war in Iraq was unjust before they decide to attack us. If we have to stifle all dissent to destroy all Al-Queda, it isn't worth it.

3. Have any other ex-US presidents, during wartime, ever expressed such sentiments about our conduct of a war? If so, whom and when? Yes. John Quincy Adams, along with other great Americans like Ralph Waldo Emerson, was an outspoken critic of the Mexican American War. Former President Adams not only voted against the war, he voted against decorating officers who had served bravely.

For the record, I believe Jimmy Carter is the greatest ex-president of my generation. While I agree that his presidency was a qualified (Camp David Accords were a magnificent accomplishment) disaster, I think he has represented himself wonderfully since in the past 15 years. This does not require him to endorse the actions of the current president.

1. Carter is not out of line making the statements out of the United States. In the information age this information is not more accessible for other countries if it is delivered directly to that nation's leader. The old internet gets the information out their plenty quickly and disburses it worldwide instantaneously.

2. I'm not sure that we are engaged in a declared war or that we have even defined an enemy. However, dissent is President Carter's right and I think aid and comfort is an overused phrase. We are a democracy and we will always have domestic critics. I think it is a credit to the democracy that we claim to want to export to the middle east that a former leader can criticize the policies of our present president. Carter has crossed no line, he has simply spoken his mind and he seems to be making valid points to me.

Gitmo would be an incentive to attack the United States and to roundly question its commitment to democratic due process rights. The Iraq war is very arguably unjust.
As a citizen of the country Carter has all the right in the world to speak his mind. Has he crossed the line to treason in your mind LH? Have I? If so I don;t want to live in your free country.

#3. RU seems to have covered that one. And I believe the Mexican War was actually declared.

I don't see anything untruthful or wrong here.

1. Is Carter out of line making these statements out of the US?

Why can't an American citizen say the same thing outside of his country that he would within his country?

2. Where does the line between "dissent" and giving "aid and comfort" to our enemy during wartime lie? Has Carter crossed this line?

Is telling the truth now to be construed as giving aid and comfort to the enemy? Were there WMD's? How about yellow cake uranium? What imminent threat did Iraq pose to the United States? Did Iraqis play any role in the 9/11/2001 attacks on the United States? The truth is this: the Iraq invasion was an "unnecessary and unjust war."

A country that depends on its citizens to march in locked step and suppress the truth of its leaders' ill-advised, belligerent actions has a lot to be ashamed of.

Jimmy Carter is nowhere near being a traitor. He is a Christian who actually works hard to live his faith every day. While his faith didn't necessarily make him an effective President, Carter's principles make him a great citizen.

3. Have any other ex-US presidents, during wartime, ever expressed such sentiments about our conduct of a war? If so, whom and when?

Thank you, RU, for answering this question.

1. Is Carter out of line making these statements out of the US?

I think that Carter is out of line being that I do not know if he has ever been to Guantanamo Bay and is able to make a rational judgment about what goes on there. Some representatives visited the facility and even harsh critics proclaimed conditions were improving.

But still lordhelmet...Carter has the right to criticize anything he wants just like you have the right to criticize him. Thats what freedom of speech is. Like it or not, he is still a former President and his opinion still holds some strength.

2. Where does the line between "dissent" and giving "aid and comfort" to our enemy during wartime lie? Has Carter crossed this line?

This is not even in the same ballpark as "giving aid and comfort" to the enemy. That would be treasonous. Carter just voiced an opinion. It may be uninformed and wrong...but that is not treason.

3. Have any other ex-US presidents, during wartime, ever expressed such sentiments about our conduct of a war? If so, whom and when?

RU, gave one example of such an occurrence. But i don't think it really matters. Would you be saying the same thing if Carter made equal statements supporting Guantanamo Bay?

I don't believe that he is. He is rightly stating that the torture that occured there is antithetical to our values and the goals that we wish to fulfill there. Take a look at what he said:
"

He isn't necessarily saying: "I'm embarrassed of the United States and it's soldiers." What he IS saying is that the excesses commited by some of them is something that is wrong and is something that hurts us-I don't see how either view is wrong in any way. You can't take his statement about the "part"(i.e.-abuses by the interrogators) and morph into something that addresses the "whole"(i.e.-the entire U.S. Army) of the effort.




I don't believe that Carter has crossed the line at all. I don't necessarily believe that abuses, when commited by a soldier in uniform, is something that is above criticism on the part of politicla parties or the people at large. As a matter of fact, it is giving "aid and comfort" to the values that are not democratic when such things are ignored or swept under the rug. That kind of stuff is what loses us wars and unless we address those concerns, we continue to have a PR image with those whom we are supposedly helping. Mr. Carter is not telling the insurgents that what they are doing is right, he is not stating that we are the great infidel-he is however, doing the right thing and is showing to the rest of the world, that we can call out and discipline those among us, who least exhibit our ideals and laws.

1. Is Carter out of line making these statements out of the US?

Absolutely not! It is not like he is telling anyone anything that they don't already know, firstly. Secondly, what he says is true and our treatment of the prisoners is a disgrace and it is not the American people's policies that lead the military personel in that direction; it is the American Government's policies.

2. Where does the line between "dissent" and giving "aid and comfort" to our enemy during wartime lie? Has Carter crossed this line?

Our Government has crossed the line. Dissent is part of the American way but it is something that this administration does not take lightly to. The only true enemies we have during this illegal wartime, is our own government. The NewOrleans relief effort (or lack thereof) is a perfect example of who's side our government is on and it's not ours. How attacking a country who had nothing to do with 9/11 or Bin Laden or terrorists training camps (BEFORE our invasion) depicts them as enemies, I will never know. However, you take a man's family and kill them; you jail and torture his innocent son; you bomb his house; shoot his neighbors; make a disaster out of his city and destroy his place of worship then you have a man with nothing left to loose but the newly acquired hatred in his heart for those responsible. Viola - what takes Al-Quida 15 to 18 years to develop we can do in two years or less - the instant suicide bomber and terrorist dedicated to revenge on those who did what they did to his loved ones. This is our enemy - the making of terrorists and the making of the hatred for the American people and it far exceeds that which terrorists did pose as far as threats went. How many american lives were the Iraqis or Saddam responsible for claiming BEFORE we invaded Iraq? The answer is none.


3. Have any other ex-US presidents, during wartime, ever expressed such sentiments about our conduct of a war? If so, whom and when?[/b]

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Dick Cheyney denounced the American Foreign policy during the Bush administration when he was trying to do business with a country under sanctions. Can I quote when and where, not off the top of my head but I will be searching just in case you ask. I will leave you with a question for consideration, if you don't mind. What is worse, denouncing the obvious - and torturous and illegal wars or committing treason and releasing names of the first ever deeply seated Al-Quida mole who was cooperating with the countries fighting terrorism?