Full Version: Pre-war Prayer
My sister sent me a chain email. It is a pre-war-with-Iraq prayer calling for God to cause all kinds of confusion in the leaders of Iraq before the US troops move in. The premise is that ancient priests went into battle before the troops to bring the wrath of God upon the enemies.
Point of debate #1: Does God pick sides in the affairs of humans?
Point of debate #2: Should a pre-war prayer assume that war is inevitable?
Here is the email in its entirety:
From Memorial Drive Church of Christ in Tulsa.
Terry Rush is the preacher there, and he is so
right!! Let's join them in prayer!
Although I tend to write on the lighter side of
life, this note is serious. The Memorial Drive
Church of Christ in Tulsa (918-838-1621) is
lighting a torch today to be passed along to your
email friends...asking them to pass it along....and
along....and along. We can do something about the
threat of war; both in Iraq and with terrorists.
In the Old Testament God's armies were always led by
the priests. When the waters parted in the Jordan
it was the priests' feet which first hit the
turbulent river. In the New Testament, Christians
are also referred to as priests.......all
Christians. We must, therefore, go in first.
As the possibility of war approaches with
Hussein and Iraq, I am asking the priests to step in
first.....ahead of our military. Let us be setting
up camp for our soldiers entrance into the conflict.
How? By prayer. Let us be sending in "prayer
missiles"; cruise and scud prayers to
target enemy plans. Patriot prayers to shoot down
incoming threats.
We at Memorial are praying for two things: (1)
the enemy leaders become confused, disoriented, and
distrustful of each other; that their entire system
of attack fall apart, and (2) that in God's wildest
ways, these enemies would become aware of His deep
love for them and the war Jesus has already fought
for them, personally, on the cross. God had Gideon
reduce his army from 32,000 to 300 men. He then
equipped them with nothing but trumpets, pitchers,
and torches...what an odd combination to fight off
well-armed soldiers. When Gideon gave the command,
the Bible says the enemy fled crying and turned on
each other...all because God messed with enemy
plans.
We have been praying for this for about a
month. On CNN last weekend a report came out that
although Hussein has nothing to lose, his generals
do. Is confusion beginning to develop? Please pray
for God to set the stage for defeat of all those who
intend to do harm. When our men and women of
uniform arrive on the scene, may they be surprised
at how God had camp set up before they ever got
there.
Would you please do two things: (1) pray, and
(2) pass this along to those you know will pray. May
we build an email army of over a million in
force........beginning with you.
Terry Rush
Point of debate #1: Does God pick sides in the affairs of humans?
Point of debate #2: Should a pre-war prayer assume that war is inevitable?
Here is the email in its entirety:
From Memorial Drive Church of Christ in Tulsa.
Terry Rush is the preacher there, and he is so
right!! Let's join them in prayer!
Although I tend to write on the lighter side of
life, this note is serious. The Memorial Drive
Church of Christ in Tulsa (918-838-1621) is
lighting a torch today to be passed along to your
email friends...asking them to pass it along....and
along....and along. We can do something about the
threat of war; both in Iraq and with terrorists.
In the Old Testament God's armies were always led by
the priests. When the waters parted in the Jordan
it was the priests' feet which first hit the
turbulent river. In the New Testament, Christians
are also referred to as priests.......all
Christians. We must, therefore, go in first.
As the possibility of war approaches with
Hussein and Iraq, I am asking the priests to step in
first.....ahead of our military. Let us be setting
up camp for our soldiers entrance into the conflict.
How? By prayer. Let us be sending in "prayer
missiles"; cruise and scud prayers to
target enemy plans. Patriot prayers to shoot down
incoming threats.
We at Memorial are praying for two things: (1)
the enemy leaders become confused, disoriented, and
distrustful of each other; that their entire system
of attack fall apart, and (2) that in God's wildest
ways, these enemies would become aware of His deep
love for them and the war Jesus has already fought
for them, personally, on the cross. God had Gideon
reduce his army from 32,000 to 300 men. He then
equipped them with nothing but trumpets, pitchers,
and torches...what an odd combination to fight off
well-armed soldiers. When Gideon gave the command,
the Bible says the enemy fled crying and turned on
each other...all because God messed with enemy
plans.
We have been praying for this for about a
month. On CNN last weekend a report came out that
although Hussein has nothing to lose, his generals
do. Is confusion beginning to develop? Please pray
for God to set the stage for defeat of all those who
intend to do harm. When our men and women of
uniform arrive on the scene, may they be surprised
at how God had camp set up before they ever got
there.
Would you please do two things: (1) pray, and
(2) pass this along to those you know will pray. May
we build an email army of over a million in
force........beginning with you.
Terry Rush
I remember reading about this subject vis a vis the American Revolutionary War. The author was presenting facts about the war and this included statements that the Founding Fathers made concerning certain events during the War. On three occasions they felt it could only have been the hand of G-D that delivered them from a disaster.
Unfortunately, without delving back through all my books I can only remember two of the incidents. One in particular was the evacuation from New York when the American soldiers were being ferried across the river in small boats and the British war frigates were bearing down on them. It really looked like they would all be blasted out of the water, when a fog very suddenly came up, on a perfectly clear sunny day. The fog lasted just long enough for the last of the boats to make it safely to the other shore.
Now, the "reasonable" among us, will pshaw and discount this. But the people who witnessed this did not turn it aside so slightly. They were convinced that nothing but the hand of G-D could have done that.
As for myself, I do believe there is a Creator and that He does on occasion extend His hand. But it does not always work the way we would have wanted it to work. And sometimes we end up lucky not getting what we originally prayed for.
If prayer helps the soldier, or anyone else, so be it. But I don't think, to answer your second question, that a prayer should assume the inevitability of war. I think that a prayer should help to resolve the problem without war.
Unfortunately, without delving back through all my books I can only remember two of the incidents. One in particular was the evacuation from New York when the American soldiers were being ferried across the river in small boats and the British war frigates were bearing down on them. It really looked like they would all be blasted out of the water, when a fog very suddenly came up, on a perfectly clear sunny day. The fog lasted just long enough for the last of the boats to make it safely to the other shore.
Now, the "reasonable" among us, will pshaw and discount this. But the people who witnessed this did not turn it aside so slightly. They were convinced that nothing but the hand of G-D could have done that.
As for myself, I do believe there is a Creator and that He does on occasion extend His hand. But it does not always work the way we would have wanted it to work. And sometimes we end up lucky not getting what we originally prayed for.
If prayer helps the soldier, or anyone else, so be it. But I don't think, to answer your second question, that a prayer should assume the inevitability of war. I think that a prayer should help to resolve the problem without war.
Basheva,
There are so many stories of God's (I'm not breaking a Commandment by using this name--the real name is not this one, according to the Bible, and not this one, according to my faith
) intervention in times of war--hasn't anyone thought that one of the Archangels is at work? Why, when something supernatural seems to happen, do we tend to think the Creator pulled this off personally and not one of the lesser spirits? I sense just a touch of human pride in this.
I'm in agreement. Prayers should be for the prevention of war and the safety, or at least salvation, of all involved during war. I use "salvation" in its generic, non-Christian sense.
I did like the part of the prayer that talked to finding the truth of love, but I'm afraid this falls on deaf Muslim ears when cast into the Christian framework. It is in effect saying that your spirituality is wrong; my spirituality is correct. Why not frame a prayer as follows?
"Oh (you may fill in whatever name you want here),
Grant our enemies the eyes to see,
The hearts to feel,
And the wisdom to take
The love you offer, always, and forever,
Without end.
Peace be with our enemies and with ourselves."
Doesn't that prayer better reflect what Jesus taught about loving your enemy?
A part of the email prayer struck me as actually working black magic--the part having to do with confusing the minds of our enemies. Is this church actually working against peace by wishing to affect other humans in a negative manner? I thought, oh great. Now it'll come back at us tenfold!
Well, maybe not. Maybe just to those who, in earnest, make this request.
So my fantasy prayer is that Saddam figures the jig is up, dismantles his military, gives up the reigns of power, and invites the UN to come take away all his weapons of any kind. UN forces then occupy and protect Iraq as a new government forms, and all our forces come home. With the threat of an imperialistic Iraq gone, all of the ME requests we take our troops home. See yah Saudi! Wouldn't wanna BE yah!
S. Korea jumps on the bandwagon! Europe jumps on the bandwagon! Russia and China too! Everyone disarms! We beat our swords of mass destruction into plowshares.
Wow. Do you suppose God would like to see this happen?
There are so many stories of God's (I'm not breaking a Commandment by using this name--the real name is not this one, according to the Bible, and not this one, according to my faith
) intervention in times of war--hasn't anyone thought that one of the Archangels is at work? Why, when something supernatural seems to happen, do we tend to think the Creator pulled this off personally and not one of the lesser spirits? I sense just a touch of human pride in this.I'm in agreement. Prayers should be for the prevention of war and the safety, or at least salvation, of all involved during war. I use "salvation" in its generic, non-Christian sense.
I did like the part of the prayer that talked to finding the truth of love, but I'm afraid this falls on deaf Muslim ears when cast into the Christian framework. It is in effect saying that your spirituality is wrong; my spirituality is correct. Why not frame a prayer as follows?
"Oh (you may fill in whatever name you want here),
Grant our enemies the eyes to see,
The hearts to feel,
And the wisdom to take
The love you offer, always, and forever,
Without end.
Peace be with our enemies and with ourselves."
Doesn't that prayer better reflect what Jesus taught about loving your enemy?
A part of the email prayer struck me as actually working black magic--the part having to do with confusing the minds of our enemies. Is this church actually working against peace by wishing to affect other humans in a negative manner? I thought, oh great. Now it'll come back at us tenfold!
Well, maybe not. Maybe just to those who, in earnest, make this request.
So my fantasy prayer is that Saddam figures the jig is up, dismantles his military, gives up the reigns of power, and invites the UN to come take away all his weapons of any kind. UN forces then occupy and protect Iraq as a new government forms, and all our forces come home. With the threat of an imperialistic Iraq gone, all of the ME requests we take our troops home. See yah Saudi! Wouldn't wanna BE yah!
S. Korea jumps on the bandwagon! Europe jumps on the bandwagon! Russia and China too! Everyone disarms! We beat our swords of mass destruction into plowshares.
Wow. Do you suppose God would like to see this happen?
Do you know the song by Bob Dylan about God on our side. I don't need god to be on our side because I think what we are doing is good. Regardless of our intentions we are making the lives of people better. I think we are fighting against the evil do-ers in Bush's words. If God is for stoping religion and stupidity from controlling the 3rd World then God is on my side. Anyway God can't effect human events because people just you god for a justification for what they were going to do anyway. If you base your military decisions on the idea that god is real and will help you that is quite foolish.
As far as the Judeo-Christian God goes, I thought that the whole point of the Expulsion from Paradise was that humanity was given free will and the power to choose 'good' or 'evil'. If that's the case, then how can God be on anyone's side, and what good will a prayer do?
JonBon,
Good point. However, theism is very tolerant of self-contradiction.
Good point. However, theism is very tolerant of self-contradiction.
QUOTE(AuthorMusician @ Feb 6 2003, 12:15 PM)
JonBon,
Good point. However, theism is very tolerant of self-contradiction.
Good point. However, theism is very tolerant of self-contradiction.
Good point. Anyway, I'm just off to a stoning...
Blessed are the cheese makers! 
I think God operates on the micro level when mankind chooses to engage in organized disobedience of the thou shalt not kill rule. God exists on both sides and knows who is naughty and nice in their individual roles.
I think about the part in the Bible where God hardened Pharoahs heart.
If there were a God who's heart is being hardened now?
If there were a God who's heart is being hardened now?
QUOTE
Point of debate #1: Does God pick sides in the affairs of humans?
This is a rather difficult question. I believe that God intervines on behalf of those who ask. Allthough, the prayer may be answered in a manner we dont understand, or it may go unanswered at all.
Yes I beleive that God picks sides in the affairs of humans. But...only those who are truely following his plan for our lives.
I believe that God will be with us in the event of war. But...only if our intentions are really pure and just.
There is a right and there is a wrong. If we follow the right, he will be with us.
QUOTE
Point of debate #2: Should a pre-war prayer assume that war is inevitable?
No. I suppose we can assume anything, but that doesnt make it right.
QUOTE
If there were a God who's heart is being hardened now?
This is an interesting question. We shall see, huh? I sure hope the United States is in the right.
QUOTE
I sure hope the United States is in the right.
Agreed. That's not a bad prayer, BTW.
One thing that bothers me about the notion of prayer is the idea that one can solicit the Allmighty for some personal favor. You know, dear Lord, please please please let me win the lottery?
Some guy in W. Virginia did win the lottery, and he claims it was due to prayer. Yeah? I doubt it. I bet this guy's prayer was probably, dear Lord, please please please let me help preserve jobs during these hard times.
So God decided to let this good soul have a shot at it. As far as I know, he has pulled through. His construction company can now hold onto employees, and the taxes from the win will preserve a bunch of state jobs.
So dear Lord, please please please guide the United States to do what is right.
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