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psyclist
I recently drove a thread way off topic for which I apologize for. So, I'll start my own.

For those who don't know what the NPT is, here's the quick and dirty:

QUOTE
The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, also referred to as the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), obligates the five acknowledged nuclear-weapon states (the United States, Russian Federation, United Kingdom, France, and China) not to transfer nuclear weapons, other nuclear explosive devices, or their technology to any non-nuclear-weapon state. Non-nuclear-weapon States Parties undertake not to acquire or produce nuclear weapons or nuclear explosive devices. They are required also to accept safeguards to detect diversions of nuclear materials from peaceful activities, such as power generation, to the production of nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices. This must be done in accordance with an individual safeguards agreement, concluded between each non-nuclear-weapon State Party and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). Under these agreements, all nuclear materials in peaceful civil facilities under the jurisdiction of the state must be declared to the IAEA, whose inspectors have routine access to the facilities for periodic monitoring and inspections. If information from routine inspections is not sufficient to fulfill its responsibilities, the IAEA may consult with the state regarding special inspections within or outside declared facilities.


As of now, Israel, India, and Pakistan have not signed on to the NPT, N. Korea has revoked its membership, and Iran seems to be in violation of it.


Does the NPT need universal compliance in order to be effective?

Has the US been hypocritical in condemning Iran & N. Korea's nuclear ambitions while not condemning the nuclear ambitions of Israel, India, and Pakistan?

Will non-adherence to the NPT lead other countries to disband and/or pursure nuclear weapons?


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loreng59
Does the NPT need universal compliance in order to be effective?Well if the US, UK, France, China and Russia are exempt then no matter what it won't be universal compliance. So no there will not be universal compliance in any case and never has been so.

Has the US been hypocritical in condemning Iran & N. Korea's nuclear ambitions while not condemning the nuclear ambitions of Israel, India, and Pakistan? No because we are attempting to enforce a treaty that those two countries signed. India, Israel and Pakistan did not sign that treaty, so condemning them would be condemning ourselves.

We can not force a nation to sign a treaty that they don't want, otherwise the US might be forced to enter into treaties that it did not sign either. That would the the true hypocrisy.

Will non-adherence to the NPT lead other countries to disband and/or possess nuclear weapons?Of course, those countries violating international treaties must adhere to them or face sanctions, since non-compliance would render them useless.
psyclist
Does the NPT need universal compliance in order to be effective?
Yes, in a treaty such as the NPT, I believe it is underminded when certain nations don't join up. It seems logical to me that if my enemy doesn't want to play by the rules everyone else does, why should I? Without universality how do you expect compliance?

QUOTE
The nuclear weapon states have also failed to make the NPT universal and improve compliance mechanisms. The perceived credibility and effectiveness of the NPT is a measure of the strength of the entire nonproliferation regime and rests on the treaty being applied universally. Non-nuclear weapon states have questioned the wisdom of adhering to the NPT when India, Pakistan, and Israel all operate outside the treaty and leave the regime incomplete.

Noncompliance and illegal nuclear weapon programs are the most serious problems for the nonproliferation regime. The nuclear programs of North Korea and Iran are examples of how nations may abuse rights granted them under the NPT. If not effectively addressed, their violations will undermine the viability and integrity of the treaty and cause states to contemplate other means of preserving order and security in an increasingly dangerous world.

The issues of universality and compliance are closely related. Only a universal, action-oriented nonproliferation regime will command the respect of the world community and best address the noncompliance question.
Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists



Has the US been hypocritical in condemning Iran & N. Korea's nuclear ambitions while not condemning the nuclear ambitions of Israel, India, and Pakistan?
Again, yes. I'm not trying to get Iran or N. Korea off the hook here at all, they violated a treaty and should be punished. It seems to me though, if the goal truly is "non-poliferation" and not "keep nukes away from our enemy" then it would make more sense to condemn those who already have them (India, Pakistan, and Israel) and those who are about to have them (North Korea) just as much if not more than those who aspire to them (Iran).

The US has given special treatment to Israel concerning it's program even when it violates its own policy this does nothing but undermind the treaty and is viewed as hypocrisy by countries coming under fire such as Iran.

QUOTE
The U.S. continues to encourage the creation of a regional environment that allows for broader acceptance by all Middle East states of nonproliferation and disarmament norms and international standards. Key to these norms is universal adherence to the NPT. U.S. law and policy continue to prohibit the supply of significant nuclear items to non-nuclear weapon states, as defined in the NPT, that do not accept IAEA safeguards on all their nuclear activities.
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Above all a heavy water reactor and an installation for processing irradiated fuel are being used to produce nuclear material of weapons purity. They are not under IAEA safeguards, although Israel is a member of this international organization.

Tel Aviv acknowledged that it had illegally imported critrons, an important element in creating contemporary models of nuclear weapons, from the United States in the early 1980's
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Will non-adherence to the NPT lead other countries to disband and/or pursure nuclear weapons?
I believe so. Non-adherence by Israel already caused problems at the NPT Review and Extension Conference in 1995.

QUOTE
At the NPT Review and Extension Conference in 1995, member nations expressed concern about the nuclear situation in the Middle East. Egypt opposed the indefinite extension of the treaty on the grounds that, as long as key states (primarily Israel) remained outside the treaty, the regime was "incapable of safeguarding Egypt."

Lebanon and Libya also voted against the Extension due to Israel's non-adherence.

And as I mentioned in the other thread, I believe one of the reasons Iran is pursuing nuclear weapons is as a counter balance to Israel. To me, it seems that we should've put pressure on Israel a long time ago to be open and up front about its nuclear program instead of our policy of "don't ask, don't tell."
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Iran may have four motivations of nuclear development: 1.) to have a deterrent to Iraqi conventional forces and weapons of mass destruction, 2.) to have a measure of lessening American influences to the West Asia, 3.) to have a countermeasure against Israeli conventional forces and nuclear forces, and 4.) to have a symbol of an Asian great power.
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Without pressuring Israel, I don't believe we have any hope of a Middle East free of WMDs.

QUOTE
"The Samson Option: Israel's Nuclear Arsenal and American Foreign Policy", Seymour M. Hersch wrote in September 1992:

"The nuclear threshold States and there are as many 40 other nations that could go nuclear in the next generation are watching America's treatment of Israel with interest. If there is no significant effort in the coming years to resolve the nuclear issue in the Middle East, Washington will have seriously diminished its ability to limit the emergence of independent nuclear powers. The result will be a post-cold war peace populated by an ever growing number of nations anxiously arming themselves with nuclear weapons as they grimly take the measure of one another."



nemov
Has the US been hypocritical in condemning Iran & N. Korea's nuclear ambitions while not condemning the nuclear ambitions of Israel, India, and Pakistan?

The first question is obvious so I'll skip to this question. loreng59, nailed this one. Iran and North Korea were part of the treaty and the three states you mentioned above were not.

Will non-adherence to the NPT lead other countries to disband and/or pursue nuclear weapons?

This is complicated because it is on a state-by-state basis. The Holy See signed the treaty, but I doubt the Vatican is going to be developing an arsenal any time soon (I hope). Some countries like Japan are protected by the US' nuclear umbrella.
Mrs. Pigpen
QUOTE(psyclist @ Aug 16 2005, 07:47 AM)
Does the NPT need universal compliance in order to be effective?
Yes, in a treaty such as the NPT, I believe it is underminded when certain nations don't join up.  It seems logical to me that if my enemy doesn't want to play by the rules everyone else does, why should I?  Without universality how do you expect compliance?
I think Loreng59 explained this perfectly. As with any other treaty, compliance in required for the signatory, not the non-signatory. Don't want to comply? Don't sign the paperwork. I'm hard pressed to think of ANY treaty that relies on universal compliance for enforcement. That doesn't even make sense.

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Has the US been hypocritical in condemning Iran & N. Korea's nuclear ambitions while not condemning the nuclear ambitions of Israel, India, and Pakistan?
Again, yes.  I'm not trying to get Iran or N. Korea off the hook here at all, they violated a treaty and should be punished.  It seems to me though, if the goal truly is "non-poliferation" and not "keep nukes away from our enemy" then it would make more sense to condemn those who already have them (India, Pakistan, and Israel) and those who are about to have them (North Korea) just as much if not more than those who aspire to them (Iran).
Well, we went through this on the other thread. Enforcing treaties is not hypocritical. I'll just parrot Loreng59 again on this "We can not force a nation to sign a treaty that they don't want, otherwise the US might be forced to enter into treaties that it did not sign either. That would the the true hypocrisy."

QUOTE
The US has given special treatment to Israel concerning it's program even when it violates its own policy this does nothing but undermind the treaty and is viewed as hypocrisy by countries coming under fire such as Iran.
Special treatment is not forcing a country to sign a treaty against its will? I guess we've given special treatment to nearly everyone by that definition.

QUOTE
Will non-adherence to the NPT lead other countries to disband and/or pursure nuclear weapons?
I believe so.  Non-adherence by Israel already caused problems at the NPT Review and Extension Conference in 1995.
Yes, non-adherence to the NPT will likely destabilize the area and rend the NPT uneffective. Since Israel has never been a signatory, and the NPT has been around since the 70s and this (strangely) didn't seem to be an issue back then, I can't blame Israel for Iran's noncompliance. I do blame Iran (and any other country which has abused the rights granted to them under the NPT). Rather than considering Israel a new threat, Iran has been using the NPT to aid in the creation of its underground weapons program. Now that it is almost finished, it is claiming "we need them because Israel didn't sign the agreement". One thing that I think is obvious....a country which violates its agreements cannot be trusted. There is nothing to indicate that Israeli compliance with the NPT would lead to Iran compliance. There is much evidence contrary to that fact...and Iran has stated in the past that it wishes to annihilate Israel.

QUOTE
QUOTE
At the NPT Review and Extension Conference in 1995, member nations expressed concern about the nuclear situation in the Middle East. Egypt opposed the indefinite extension of the treaty on the grounds that, as long as key states (primarily Israel) remained outside the treaty, the regime was "incapable of safeguarding Egypt."

Lebanon and Libya also voted against the Extension due to Israel's non-adherence.
See above. This wasn't an issue for over two and a half decades but now these nations which have always complied with their agreements can't?
psyclist
It seems to me we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. This seems to be merely a point of view issue and I (as well as the other quotes and sources) believe one way and some think othrewise. Again, I'm not trying to get Iran off the hook as I would like everyone to follow the treaty nor am I against punishment for them. I would just like to see some pressure to the non-signatories rather than turning a blind eye, or in some cases, aiding their program. Without this pressure, I see no reason why anyone shouldn't just take their name off the NPT.
logophage
Does the NPT need universal compliance in order to be effective?

I think you want to use the NPT for something it was never designed to do. The NPT is designed to prevent countries who sign the treaty from building nukes by offering them incentives. Perhaps, you want to ask: is the NPT working? Well, in the case of Iran and North Korea, the answer is no; for other countries, yes.

I don't believe you could ever get universal compliance unless there was some mechanism to force it. As others have said, that violates the whole principle of sovereignty. Of course, if you're willing to follow the "Bush Doctrine", I suppose you could invade anyone who chooses to not sign the NPT.

Finally, the NPT has two types of parties: those with nukes providing incentives and those without nukes receiving incentives in exchange for not building nukes. In other words, the NPT specifically acknowledges signatory parties with nukes. Those parties are also required by the NPT to provide those incentives. Should they fail to comply, then they are in violation of the treaty. Thus, it makes no sense to require "universal compliance" as there are two types of parties involved.

Has the US been hypocritical in condemning Iran & N. Korea's nuclear ambitions while not condemning the nuclear ambitions of Israel, India, and Pakistan?

As far as the NPT concerned, the answer is no. There is no hypocrisy. They weren't signatories, thus they are not obligated to follow the treaty.

If you're making a larger statement about proliferation in general, then I suppose there is some merit to the argument. Clearly, those nations have nukes which has increased proliferation. More proliferation increases the chance of nukes being used. But, what is the US to do? You could follow the "Bush Doctrine" and invade or impose sanctions but that's about it. These nations didn't violate any international law as far as I can tell. They have the right to build nukes even if destabilization is the end result.

Will non-adherence to the NPT lead other countries to disband and/or pursure nuclear weapons?

Countries will pursue nuclear weapons if they believe it is necessary. In that sense, treaties like the NPT can only work as long as the signatory doesn't feel threatened. If a country does feel threatened (whether justified or not), then, even if they signed the NPT, they will eventually build nukes. Nukes have proven to be a very effective deterrent.
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