Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Brownie, you’re doing a heckuva job
America's Debate > Archive > Policy Debate Archive > [A] Domestic Policy
Google
DaffyGrl
It seems that Michael Brown is blaming everyone but himself for the poor handling of Katrina – the Louisiana governor, New Orleans’ mayor, the whole Department of Homeland Security, the media, Army Lt. Gen. Russell Honore, and to top it all off, every American citizen, for not being better prepared. huh.gif

Gosh, did he miss anyone? Oh, yeah...that guy. w00t.gif I guess Brownie isn’t entirely crazy.

He claims FEMA isn’t responsible for evacuating communities (his main beef with the mayor and governor), but it seems he was singing quite a different tune earlier.
QUOTE
Brown Said FEMA Was Engaging In Evacuations During Katrina

If there is still floodwaters around there, they shouldn’t be trying to evacuate those patients by themselves. The Coast Guard, FEMA, all of those continue to do those rescue missions and we continue to do those evacuations and we’ll certainly continue to evacuate all of the hospitals. [CNN, 9/1/05]  Revisionist History

QUOTE
But Brownie revealed in an interview that he spent the week calling the president’s top aides to report that “local authorities were overwhelmed and that the overall response was going badly.” His account confirms an obvious conclusion: the president should have set aside his guitar and tackled the problem at its inception.
NY Times as reported by TalkLeft

As for his claim that FEMA was understaffed:
QUOTE
Brown Said FEMA Had All The Manpower It Needed

BLITZER: Are you ready? Is FEMA, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, ready to deal with this new hurricane?
BROWN: We absolutely are. We have all the manpower and resources we need. President Bush has been a very great supporter of FEMA. [CNN, 9/26/04] Revisionist History

Let's not forget, too, that Brown is the same guy whose "disaster handling expertise" was responsible for tossing hurricane relief checks all over Florida not so long ago...to people who were nowhere near hurricane-damaged areas.
QUOTE
Initially, on January 24, 2005, Wexler requested the removal of Under Secretary Brown due to reports that FEMA, under Brown's leadership, had disbursed over $30-million in disaster relief money to some 10,000 Miami-Dade residents who made fraudulent claims following Hurricane Frances. Headline News


What is Brown’s strategy of blaming everyone outside the federal government intended to achieve?

Are Blanco and Nagin being set up as “fall guys” for everything that went wrong with the response to Katrina?

Since Brown is being kept on by FEMA as a paid consultant, is the grilling by the committee just for show?
Google
VDemosthenes
QUOTE(DaffyGrl @ Sep 27 2005, 05:40 PM)
What is Brown’s strategy of blaming everyone outside the federal government intended to achieve?

Are Blanco and Nagin being set up as “fall guys” for everything that went wrong with the response to Katrina?

Since Brown is being kept on by FEMA as a paid consultant, is the grilling by the committee just for show?

*



Nice questions. thumbsup.gif


1.) The answer appears to be obvious. Brown(ie-poo) does not want to be remembered as the man who let Katrina devastate New Orleans. It would not only bar him from ever holding down a job and being considered "capable," but it would also reduce him to B-list parties. w00t.gif

2.) Well, surely they are the legitimate "fall guys" in the first place. Blanco is guilty for not ordering a state of emergency and innate evacuations a reasonable amount of time before the storm was within spitting distance. In Florida, Governor Bush orders a state of emergency every time a hurricane even looks like it will hit Florida, so aid can rush it to help his people, the governor is a fall out person in that respect.

The mayor, well he is the one to point the finger at anyway, I am thinking. He had the power to get his people out of the city in a timely fashion and not tell them "we (the people of New Orleans) are safe."

3.) I think his demotion was an attempt by the feds to make it look like they had blamed someone to shift the blame from them. Little good that is doing now... whistling.gif


Dontreadonme
What is Brown’s strategy of blaming everyone outside the federal government intended to achieve?
Umm.....heh...CYA?

Are Blanco and Nagin being set up as “fall guys” for everything that went wrong with the response to Katrina?

Wait....you mean Bush isn't the fall guy de jure anymore? I don't see Brown pulling any wool over any eyes here. The record is clear. Brown stepped on his crank....as did Blanco, as did Nagin. We've witnessed someone being set up as the fall guy in the last few weeks for sure, but I'm not seeing it here.

Since Brown is being kept on by FEMA as a paid consultant, is the grilling by the committee just for show?

I hate to keep the vein of this post cynical........but Washington is ground zero for dog and pony shows. Brown should be let go, and Congress should quit wasting my tax dollars on hearing this 'testimony' unless it's going to be complete, thorough and bi-partisan.
DaffyGrl
I don't know, I get the feeling that Brown is not totally persona non grata with the Bush administration. After all, he's still being paid (and quite well, may I add - $148,000) to "consult" with FEMA on the disaster response. Like any other federal agency, the "consultancy" could realistically wind up being just like a job, hence his "resignation" was all for show.

I have no factual basis for this (other than the pattern of his testimony), but I think that if Brown does a good enough job slinging mud at everyone else and taking the heat off FEMA, DOHS and the White House, he might be back in good graces again...at least until 2008. thumbsup.gif

Governor Blanco ordered the evacuation on the 27th. When was she supposed to do it? Brown snarkily remarks that Mississippi and Alabama managed to evacuate in time, but fails to take into consideration the logistics of evacuating New Orleans as compared to the other two states.

QUOTE(DTOM)
Wait....you mean Bush isn't the fall guy de jure anymore? I don't see Brown pulling any wool over any eyes here. The record is clear. Brown stepped on his crank....as did Blanco, as did Nagin. We've witnessed someone being set up as the fall guy in the last few weeks for sure, but I'm not seeing it here.

You don't see him testifying before the committee, do you? laugh.gif
Dontreadonme
QUOTE(DaffyGrl @ Sep 27 2005, 05:07 PM)

QUOTE(DTOM)
Wait....you mean Bush isn't the fall guy de jure anymore? I don't see Brown pulling any wool over any eyes here. The record is clear. Brown stepped on his crank....as did Blanco, as did Nagin. We've witnessed someone being set up as the fall guy in the last few weeks for sure, but I'm not seeing it here.

You don't see him testifying before the committee, do you? laugh.gif

No, and I don't see Blanco testifying either........but since the state and city emergency plans weren't followed, she and Nagin should be right next to Brown if Congress is going to bother going through the motions.
Brown screwed up and should absolutely NOT be kept on at FEMA sucking away yours and my tax dollars, but the pathetic politization by certain elected officials and assorted punditry isn't doing any justice to the victims of Katrina.
nighttimer
QUOTE(DaffyGrl @ Sep 27 2005, 05:40 PM)

[b]What is Brown’s strategy of blaming everyone outside the federal government intended to achieve?



Oh, I don't know...cover his and ex-bosses well-compensated butts, probably. Bail out Bush's pathetically slow response. Blame the local yokels. Pass the buck.

In other words try to sell this line of crap that what happened with Hurricane Katrina was both beyond anyone's ability to comprehend how deadly it was and put it all on Bianco and Nagin for the resultant screw-ups. That's what Browne is selling, but nobody but Bush Administration apologists are going to buy it.

"I guess you want me to be the superhero that is going to step in there and suddenly take everybody out of New Orleans." --- Michael Brown

"No. What I wanted you to do was do your job of coordinating." --- Rep. Chris Shays.


http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/27/kat...rown/index.html

Superhero? More like a supervillain. Let's call him The Bumbling Bureaucrat and arrest him for Gross Negligence, Total Incompetence and Unjustifiable Smug Arrogance. police.gif
aps
What is Brown’s strategy of blaming everyone outside the federal government intended to achieve?

I don't see this strategy being any different than what this administration normally does. I am sure the Bush administration wanted him to point fingers (even though Scott McClellen said that they would not finger point) because it takes the eye off the ball, and it causes some people to question whether Brown was as much fault as he has been accused of. Now, based upon the posts I have seen here, we are not fooled by his answers. However, you would be surprised at how many people I know (who are Bush fans) who are blaming the state and local government and won't concede any error on the part of Brown. Huh? I will never understand undying loyalty.

So let's wait and see if Brown gets a Medal of Freedom, just like George Tenet did even though the intelligence he provided regarding WMDs in Iraq was just totally false. Bush seems to reward those who have made the US look like a fool.

Are Blanco and Nagin being set up as “fall guys” for everything that went wrong with the response to Katrina?

I believe so. I could not believe as I watched Brown testify how he would not accept responsibility for anything. How can he not see how horrible and NOT credible it makes him look?

Since Brown is being kept on by FEMA as a paid consultant, is the grilling by the committee just for show?

I think the grilling of the committee is genuine. Some of the people were really rough on him (and he deserved it).

I am disappointed that the democrats boycotted this hearing because it would have been a great opportunity for them to grill him and show his incompetence.
aevans176
QUOTE(nighttimer @ Sep 28 2005, 12:30 AM)
QUOTE(DaffyGrl @ Sep 27 2005, 05:40 PM)

What is Brown’s strategy of blaming everyone outside the federal government intended to achieve?



Oh, I don't know...cover his and ex-bosses well-compensated butts, probably. Bail out Bush's pathetically slow response. Blame the local yokels. Pass the buck.

In other words try to sell this line of crap that what happened with Hurricane Katrina was both beyond anyone's ability to comprehend how deadly it was and put it all on Bianco and Nagin for the resultant screw-ups. That's what Browne is selling, but nobody but Bush Administration apologists are going to buy it.

"I guess you want me to be the superhero that is going to step in there and suddenly take everybody out of New Orleans." --- Michael Brown

"No. What I wanted you to do was do your job of coordinating." --- Rep. Chris Shays.


http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/09/27/kat...rown/index.html

Superhero? More like a supervillain. Let's call him The Bumbling Bureaucrat and arrest him for Gross Negligence, Total Incompetence and Unjustifiable Smug Arrogance. police.gif
*



Well... I hate to bring the good ol' Constitution into this one, but the Federal Government wasn't designed to be the keeper of the states. In order for the Federal Government to step in, the state has to request help.

I'm not blaming anyone really, as the President shouldn't intercede without the behest of the state government. The Governor really didn't know what needed to be done, and Nagin frankly, was beside himself in the mess that no one anticipated.

FEMA and Brown should've had a plan, but we hadn't had a natural disaster of this scale in nearly 100 years, and we were all ill-prepared. Is it FEMA's job? Of course. Should we blame the President?. Of course not. Let's read:
FEMA's mission statement: DISASTER. It strikes anytime, anywhere. It takes many forms -- a hurricane, an earthquake, a tornado, a flood, a fire or a hazardous spill, an act of nature or an act of terrorism. It builds over days or weeks, or hits suddenly, without warning. Every year, millions of Americans face disaster, and its terrifying consequences.
On March 1, 2003, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS). FEMA's continuing mission within the new department is to lead the effort to prepare the nation for all hazards and effectively manage federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates proactive mitigation activities, trains first responders, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration.


Does any of that negate the fact that the state and city government knew for days that this hurricane was going to hit, and did nothing? Nope...no way Consider the National Guard response, of which was at the direction of the Governor. Does the Guard have the capability of carrying people out (i.e. trucks, busses, etc?). Of course. Does the guard have the ability to police areas and prevent (some) violence and criminal activity. Probably (as much as any part-time soldier... much less a 19 year old part time soldier does).

Having a more vested interest (being from Louisiana and knowing this area well), coupled with being a Reservist in the Dallas area, I can say that the situation was never well organized, is still marginally organized at best, and considering the geographical location of New Orleans... there should've been a plan to begin with. Our Marine Reserve Unit, for instance, was called twice to discuss mobilization (we're not well suited for a job like this.. but are closer than some that were sent). Instead, some Guardsmen from Oklahoma were sent, many of whom had less than 24 hrs notice. All the while, there are some guard units in Louisiana left unactivated (one of which is a good sized transportation unit, flush with previously active duty soldiers well suited for moving sand bags, distributing supplies, etc).

Again- Nighttimer, we have to look past the blame the President game. He didn't cause global warming, your child's flu, that flat tire you got last month, and didn't break up Jennifer and Brad. I'm sorry... it's far more complicated than "George Bush don't like black people"(in the well suited words of the popular hip-hop song...)
Christopher
QUOTE
Should we blame the President?. Of course not. Let's read:
FEMA's mission statement: DISASTER. It strikes anytime, anywhere. It takes many forms -- a hurricane, an earthquake, a tornado, a flood, a fire or a hazardous spill, an act of nature or an act of terrorism. It builds over days or weeks, or hits suddenly, without warning. Every year, millions of Americans face disaster, and its terrifying consequences.
On March 1, 2003, the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) became part of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS). FEMA's continuing mission within the new department is to lead the effort to prepare the nation for all hazards and effectively manage federal response and recovery efforts following any national incident. FEMA also initiates proactive mitigation activities, trains first responders, and manages the National Flood Insurance Program and the U.S. Fire Administration.


Aevans, really. Bush appointed as the head of FEMA---which does Emergency Management for just such an occasion --a man whose experience was in arranging Dog and Pony Shows. This was reflected very well in the response from FEMA.
Bush appointed a contributor to a position where response time is critical. Regardless of the Constitution or the whole local/federal jurisdiction How FEMA responded and its overall preparedness was, pathetic and unexcusable. Trying to parcel out the blame is just as sad.
The people of Louisiana were faced with a crisis and once again Bush was late to respond and weak in his efforts.

Both FEMA and the Dept of HS are in existence for just such occurences--to plan for and respond to these events. They are spending billions and they are failing miserably.
The only real responsibility of out government is to protect its people--and it is failing horribly. Were I an enemy of this country i would be rushing to attack after seeing how pathetic our government is in action.
Cakewalk is the word I would use.
Roswell
Whether he is blaming people unjustly I do not know. I do not believe it was his fault alone, I believe he was overwhelmed by a horrible storm combined with state and local governments that could not or would not work together or work with him.

As he stated, he had oversaw many other emergencies during his tenure with far fewer problems than was evidenced in Katrina. Four hurricanes in Florida alone last year. He got the job done on those occasions.

I look at one incident that, to me, points out what was probably going on during the days leading up to the hurricane hitting New Orleans. When Rita was heading towards the coast, Nagin ignored the warnings of the feds and was telling people they could come back into the city. The FEMA director had to politely, but firmly put him in his place and insist that people not come back and if they had, to leave. Nagin then made a statement that along the lines that the FEMA director isn't the mayor around here and basically thumbed his nose at him. To me that outlines the problem that was indemnic in the whole incident.
Google
DaffyGrl
QUOTE(Roswell)
As he stated, he had oversaw many other emergencies during his tenure with far fewer problems than was evidenced in Katrina. Four hurricanes in Florida alone last year. He got the job done on those occasions.

Um, except for that $30 million he accidently parceled out to Miami-Dade residents who were nowhere near the damaged areas...oopsie. whistling.gif

As for Bush being blameless, he filled FEMA with cronies and repeatedly redirected funds meant for FEMA; c'mon, you can't believe he doesn't bear some responsibility! For Bush to actually admit any responsibility at all for the whole mess when he had never done so in the last 5 years speaks volumes.
moif
What is Brown’s strategy of blaming everyone outside the federal government intended to achieve?

Heh. It looks like Standard Conservative Operating Procedure to me. The rule for the right seems to be, never accept any responsibility for anything that reflects badly on oneself or one's allies.

Time and again we see how conservatives, more or less without regard to nationality, like to spout lyrical about 'values' but when it comes to taking responsibility for any mess they've made, then suddenly, acting responsibly is not a 'value'.


Are Blanco and Nagin being set up as “fall guys” for everything that went wrong with the response to Katrina?

They carry just as great a share of the responsibility if you ask me, but yeah, it certainly looks like Brown and his 'allies' are trying to deflect blame in their direction.


Since Brown is being kept on by FEMA as a paid consultant, is the grilling by the committee just for show?

Of course.

Its the usual charade where politicians pretend their doing something by getting together in a room and asking each other questions.

Sort of like how journalists, when they've got nothing solid to report take to interviewing each other to make out they have something worth reporting.

Its all smoke and mirrors.
BoF
QUOTE(DaffyGrl @ Sep 28 2005, 05:33 PM)
For Bush to actually admit any responsibility at all for the whole mess when he had never done so in the last 5 years speaks volumes.


Now that Bush has "accepted responsibility," it is ironic that his supporters are still taking up for him.

The problem is not that liberals blame Bush for everything, but that some conservatives, even on this board, don't want to blame him for anything. The buck doesn't stop on Bush's desk, but down the hall a few doors--butter Brownie up and get him throw himself under a bus. Afterall, the guy's a team player.

How nice. Endless "get out of jail free" cards. I think those days are over. It's like a game of settlers and Indian. Bush is circling the wagons and the Democrats and media are firing quivers full of arrows. smile.gif
Dontreadonme
QUOTE(BoF @ Sep 28 2005, 06:38 PM)

The problem is not that liberals blame Bush for everything, but that some conservatives, even on this board, don't want to blame him for anything. 


Really? That's the problem? There's no liberals on this board that have consistently, especially in the wake of Katrina, blamed Bush for everything??

Blanket statements like Standard Conservative Operating Procedure don't bother you? The fact that for all the faults of Bush, Brown and Chertoff, one party has used the recent hurricanes as political/racial currency? Would the actions of Democrats be acceptable to you if the roles were reversed and blue blood New England socialite John Kerry was in office during Katrina?

I have stated my views of Brown previously in this thread and others, but to insinuate that liberals are the ones taking a balanced look at this tragedy and objectively assigning blame to responsible parties is laughable.

Brown testified before a congressional committee, unfortunately, instead of using that opportunity to take him to task, they stayed away and pouted.
Even today when Gov Blanco arrived to speak before a congressional committee, Sen. Max Baucus, D-Montana stated "Good for you, Gov. Blanco," Baucus said. "This is not about blame, this is about how we get this job done. I appreciate your response."
So why again are Democrats chomping at the bit to conduct an investigation? Oh......2006 elections are just a year away. Political whores at their worst.......
BoF
QUOTE(Dontreadonme @ Sep 28 2005, 07:42 PM)
So why again are Democrats chomping at the bit to conduct an investigation? Oh......2006 elections are just a year away. Political whores at their worst.......


To not hold investigations would be to give Bush another of the "get out of jail free" cards I mentioned on a previous thread.

I find it rather amusing that the party of Karl Rove would accuse the opposition of playing politics. Maybe it's that we simply don't trust Bush or his cronies.
Roswell
"Um, except for that $30 million he accidently parceled out to Miami-Dade residents who were nowhere near the damaged areas...oopsie."

That's a symptom of large beauracaries, which make large government undertakenings slow, unresponsive and vunerable to fraud, waste and abuse. You can pick out incidents like that everywhere you look in the government.

My post was not to exonerate Brown for anything, merely to identify the entire episode was a disaster from top to bottom. And there was animosity both personal and political that made matters worse.


On another note...I find it extremely dispicable that during the first days after the storm hit, that Howard Dean at a fund raiser took the floor and called the administration racist and that people died because of it. As he was saying these things, the crowd was cheering him on. Cheering!! Dean was saying people were dying and the crowd was cheering. I was absolutely sick to my stomach.

So, I do see a "get Bush at all costs" mentality out there.....and I think that seeped it's way unfortunately into the proceedings and activities that went on in and around the storm...and I find it a sad testiment to what people will do in the name of political power.

edit: To add, the "get Bush at all costs" attitude is just like the "get Clinton at all costs" attitude that infested the Republican party during the clinton 2nd term. It was not good for the country either.
DaffyGrl
There’s a new voice being heard in the Katrina hearings – Marty Bahamonde, the lone FEMA representative actually on the ground in New Orleans prior to and during the hurricane. He tried repeatedly to convey the enormity of the disaster to Brown, obviously with little success. This exchange says it all.
QUOTE
Bahamonde had just learned, as he huddled in New Orleans' Superdome with evacuees, that Brown's press secretary was fretting about blocking out time for the director to eat dinner at one of Baton Rouge's busy restaurants that night.

"OH MY GOD!!!!!!!" Bahamonde messaged the co-worker. "I just ate an MRE" — military rations — "and crapped in the hallway of the Superdome along with 30,000 other close friends so I understand her concern about busy restaurants."
<snip>
Brown is still on FEMA's payroll as a consultant, Andrews confirmed. He works from home, where he is "pulling all the documentation together" for the investigations into Katrina response, she said, and his original 30-day contract was recently extended for another 30 days. LA Times

That last tidbit is annoying. It looks like the “fired” Brownie is going to be kept on 30 days at a time as a “consultant”. While this is something companies commonly do, it isn’t usually done for someone who has shown the gross incompetence Brown has. dry.gif
TedN5
DaffyGrl, I saw this testimony on CSPAN. It was incredible and further confirmation of the incomprehensible blunders committed at the top of FEMA before, during, and after Katrina hit. There is lots of other testimony showing the same thing including truck drivers who were sent from place to place and never directed to disaster locations. Meanwhile TV news has moved on to the latest sensational crime stories.
Paladin Elspeth
QUOTE(DaffyGrl @ Oct 21 2005, 10:47 AM)
There’s a new voice being heard in the Katrina hearings – Marty Bahamonde, the lone FEMA representative actually on the ground in New Orleans prior to and during the hurricane. He tried repeatedly to convey the enormity of the disaster to Brown, obviously with little success. This exchange says it all.
QUOTE
Bahamonde had just learned, as he huddled in New Orleans' Superdome with evacuees, that Brown's press secretary was fretting about blocking out time for the director to eat dinner at one of Baton Rouge's busy restaurants that night.

"OH MY GOD!!!!!!!" Bahamonde messaged the co-worker. "I just ate an MRE" — military rations — "and crapped in the hallway of the Superdome along with 30,000 other close friends so I understand her concern about busy restaurants."
<snip>
Brown is still on FEMA's payroll as a consultant, Andrews confirmed. He works from home, where he is "pulling all the documentation together" for the investigations into Katrina response, she said, and his original 30-day contract was recently extended for another 30 days. LA Times

That last tidbit is annoying. It looks like the “fired” Brownie is going to be kept on 30 days at a time as a “consultant”. While this is something companies commonly do, it isn’t usually done for someone who has shown the gross incompetence Brown has. dry.gif
*



Now you know, DaffyGrl, that Dubya needs to keep Brownie close by should any Arabian horses be in danger in New Orleans! It isn't gross incompetence but disloyalty that appears to be grounds for firing appointees in this administration. thumbsup.gif

But keeping Brownie on does show just how much respect Bush holds for Congress and its investigations into his administration, and that's "not much."
This is a simplified version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2013 Invision Power Services, Inc.