QUOTE(Renger @ Oct 11 2005, 03:28 PM)
QUOTE(carlitoswhey @ Oct 11 2005, 09:21 PM)
Right. Jimmy Carter has been the most outspoken critic of the US government of any living president in history. What is your point here?
Why did he critize his country so much? That is certainly not a normal reaction for an ex-president. Maybe he had good reasons?
Worst. President. Ever. Sure, he deserved something for his tireless humanitarian work during the 80's and 90's, but now he's a complete joke, "blessing" the "free" elections in places like Zimbabwe and hanging out with the dictators of Cuba and Venezuela.
QUOTE(Renger @ Oct 11 2005, 03:28 PM)
QUOTE(carlito)
We've killed several thousand terrorists, fostered democracy in Afghanistan and Iraq, caused Libya to give up its weapons program, saved thousands of people in South Asia from the effects of the tsunami (and now earthquake), fed millions of poor people, encouraged nascent democracies from Kyrgistan to Lebanon, significantly increased anti-AIDS funding for Africa.
And at the same time your popularity in the whole world drops. Militant anti-americanism flourishes in the Middle East and Europe is no longer following your lead without questioning, because of the agressive policy of the administration of Bush. I am not saying that the U.S. does nothing to improve the peace and the help the needy in the world, but you said that the U.S. has done more to promote lasting peace than the IAEA in the last five years. I just pointed out some big minors in the American international policy from the past five years. I really don't think that the U.S. has any right for a Noble Price on this moment.
You asked me what the US has done that I was proud of. I answered. If you want to criticize these policies, we can discuss them in another thread. You are looking at the USA through a straw, only able to see two small incidents that you perceive (incorrectly in my view) as human-rights violations. Yet, the wonderful IAEA who has allowed nuclear proliferation by the most evil regimes on the planet (Iran and North Korea) wins an award for peace. I find this amusing.
QUOTE(Renger @ Oct 11 2005, 03:28 PM)
QUOTE(carlito)
Frankly, I'm really restraining myself in responding to what you wrote. As if all the US does happens in one Iraqi prison or in Guantanamo. Have you ever noticed that THE REST OF CUBA IS ONE BIG PRISON and the USA is the only nation that seems to notice this? If you lived in America, you would see every day that Cubans are willing to risk their lives to escape Castro, but let's worry about 500 terrorists prisoners who have ALL HAD HEARINGS IN A COURT!
http://web.amnesty.org/pages/guantanamobay-index-engQUOTE
The detention camp at the US Naval Base in Guantánamo Bay in Cuba has become a symbol of the US administration’s refusal to put human rights and the rule of law at the heart of its response to the atrocities of 11 September 2001. Hundreds of people of around 35 different nationalities remain held in effect in a legal black hole, many without access to any court, legal counsel or family visits.
As evidence of torture and widespread cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment mounts, it is more urgent than ever that the US Government bring the Guantánamo Bay detention camp and any other facilities it is operating outside the USA into full compliance with international law and standards. The only alternative is to close them down.
Does this deserve a Noble Prize of Peace? I do not think so.
I don't recall ever saying that the USA should win a prize for Guantanamo. I do recall saying in another thread that I no longer pay dues to Amnesty International because of their clear anti-freedom stance in regards to the war on terror. The people in our prison, if not in that prison, would be killing innocents abroad, which really doesn't enhance "human rights" now, but this is the subject of another topic.
This type of logic is so twisted, it would be as if I said "we can't have a French Nobel Prize winner because the French are
torturing and killing refugees from North Africa." Ridiculous. The French are fine people, and it would be unfair to judge them on one situation only. Now if we added
UN-sanctioned systematic child rape in Africa and
French diplomats being jailed in the oil-for-food scandal, I could make this case against Kofi Annan, but he's already won so never mind...
QUOTE(Renger @ Oct 11 2005, 03:28 PM)
QUOTE
As for 'de-stabilizing the mid east region' - I can't stop laughing enough to type a response. Right. We de-stabilized the middle east who were all doing super-keen before Bush was elected. Excellent.
Ask yourself the question: Did the Iraq War bring peace and stability to the country? They are liberated from Sadam and that is a good thing. But are they better off at this moment? Fighting is still going on in their cities, suicidebombers terrorists etc etc. Iraq is still far from being peaceful. From the very beginning of the war up to THIS moment the U.S has not brought any safety to the country. Maybe in the future if all turns out well and Iraq has become a stable democracy Bush should receive the Noble Prize, but up till now I think ElBaradei and the IAEA deserve it more.
Well, you are wrong about this. As for bringing 'peace' to Iraq, it's true that our presence has forced some issues, and attracted many foreign jihadists. It's also true that we are killing many of them, even while they bomb innocents to make political points. Just today, the New York Times published a letter, where you can see that the terrorists are convinced they are losing and worried about their future. Lastly, if you take the number of people killed by Saddam Hussein, either due to aggressive war with Iran or Kuwait, or his impoverishing his people due to UN non-compliance, or his systematic torture, or his genocide of the Marsh Arabs, I say with confidence that LESS Iraqis will die due to violence in 2005 - 2010 than have died in 1980 - 1985, for example. PS - constitution still on track.
QUOTE(English Horn)
Are come on Carlito... there's no need to repeat the official propaganda lines. Cubans are willing to risk their lives to escape poverty, not Castro - just like Mexicans and Guatemalans and Nicaraguans are willing to risk their lives to get to United States. Mexico is a democracy, so why there're so many mexicans trying to cross the border? Cuba has a first-rate education system, a health system which is an envy of all of Latin America, and a developed industry (microbiology and biotechnology - they're one of the leaders in the field) which helped them to sustain the island's independence having the world's sole superpower as their sworn enemy. You chose not to notice all that, as well as the fact that Americans are the only citizens of the western world who are prohibited to visit Cuba (talk about freedoms!)
I'll agree with you about the US policy, but if you really want to go, it's easy from Toronto or Mexico City.
As for the 'first rate' anything in Cuba, if you would rather have good health care at the expense of being jailed for criticizing your government, then you can have it. Please move on down - the weather is great. It's a whole lot more than poverty which makes people leave.