With "black friday" upon us, I never cease to marvel at the people who hit the stores at 5 a.m. in massive throngs. Not only that, but this year was marked by scuffles, fights, and elbows.

I'm of the persuasion that consumerism has run amok in America. At christmas time, I see children literally drowning in presents that they truly do not appreciate. Supposedly, we celebrate thanksgiving and christmas for deeper meanings, but somewhere along the line, I think we've done more to put our credit cards to the max, while not helping our fellow man. My proposal? A 1% tax on goods sold to pay for a publicly arranged advertising campaign warning against "affluenza" This campaign would urge people to buy less and to spend holidays and time with others in a more meaningful way.

Questions for debate:

1.)Should we have a public advertising program to campaign against over-consumerism?

2.)If a company's profit margin rises, but people are fighting for goods, is it truly what we want for society?

3.)Is there any way that business will promote healthy public social interaction in society?

1.)Should we have a public advertising program to campaign against over-consumerism?
Absolutely not. Why should I have to pay another tax for something that doesn't affect me? I do not venture into malls after Thanksgiving, and those that do, do at their own peril. No public advertising campaign is going to convince materialistic, greedy or plain stupid people to not shop till they drop.
Additionally, not everybody celebrates those holidays, so if they are spending time with their families or just going about their lives, why must they either pay a tax, or be subjected to another 'what's good for you' campaign.

Christmas has become more like giftmas, and nothing short of the complete collapse of the economy will change that.

If you don't like the rampant consumerism, do like I do, draw the shutters, lock the door and shop online if you need to buy consumer goods.

1.)Should we have a public advertising program to campaign against over-consumerism?
Perhaps, but I think we should be wary of trying to discourage consumption. A drop in consumption is what triggered the Great Depression. Sadly what I think the economy thrives on is more consumption for the middle class. In other words, Constitutional or no, redistribution of wealth to the middle and lower classes is good for our economy. It is when the consumers run themselves heavily into debt that this causes a problem as it did in the 1920s. When the ability to over-consume stops a large chunk of consumers at the same time, the economy could get quite a shock.

2.)If a company's profit margin rises, but people are fighting for goods, is it truly what we want for society?

Um, er, kinda yes. We don;t want people literally fighting for products, but that is a problem of behavior. We don;t want a lot of things, but a strong Christmas shopping season, whether you like it or not, helps fuel the economy. Public interest groups could step forward and try to redirect American consumption to higher quality of life type of things, but other than looking at public health issues (fast food loaded with trans-fats is cheaper and faster but bad when compared to higher nutrient foods that are slower and more expensive) the government should limit itself.

3.)Is there any way that business will promote healthy public social interaction in society?

If the public reshapes the marketplace and rejects some of the crap out there and creates a greater demand for greener, healthier, and more "wholesome" products even if they cost a few more dollars, the market will make it, and the market will shift. I think we can see this at work in the changes in fast food restaurants' content to more healthier options.

Healthier social interactions? I am not sure I have a good example in mind. Sometimes people get in mind that they just have to have some things. Yet I was at an absolutely jam-packed Kohl's this AM at 5:15 AM. The line in the store worked through the entire box store in two directions and even with 20 or so cashiers working, the line took 45 minutes to get to the end. I did not see one person push or shove or fight about anything. The people in this groggy line made friendly conversation and offered shopping tips for the day at the store and at other places. This was with elbow room only in almost every aisle. Did Kohl's do anything to promote such a friendly environment to be emulated?

Actually, the companies would foot the bill for it, much like the tobacco industry does. Yes, I suppose that you could say they would pass the cost onto you.......but if you bought less, wouldn't that be a good thing?



I agree with you here, but there are some people out there who do desire something different-a new experience. If they saw ads about volunteering at homeless shelters or conducting food drives, wouldn't it be beneficial to us to have people coaxed to participate in those things?



I agree, I love being around family and I treasure it alot. With that being said, we are a society with many divisions. The health of our society and political system corresponds with how interconnected we all are with one another. We are not all John Wayne's who are not our brothers keeper. In promoting social cohesion and helping your neighbor, we are doing more than "do-gooderism," we would be encouraging a new social and civic ethic, one that private industry is incapable of producing from within people.



I totally hear you there. At times, I feel like Clark Griswold in Christmas vacation.

1.)Should we have a public advertising program to campaign against over-consumerism?
If people don't read the newspapers, they won't take the public ads seriously. Any informed person by now should know about the tougher bankruptcy laws and not expect low interest rates to last forever. It would be like those silly ads telling youngsters not to smoke dope or drink booze. (Although the ad with the eggs being smashed is quite funny.)

2.)If a company's profit margin rises, but people are fighting for goods, is it truly what we want for society?
Society is always going to have a few bad apples who want something for nothing. The best we can do is to arrest the hooligans.

3.)Is there any way that business will promote healthy public social interaction in society?
Businesses are supposed to promote their products, and the ads will generally reflect society's values. For example, look at the car ads. They usually show a person driving an SUV on a mountain road with no other car in sight, or the Manhattan traffic magically coming to a halt so that the SUV driver can drive his way through. The ads generally appeal to people's egos and encourage people to be a little self centered.

When America's economy goes sour, either from excess debt or energy shortages, the whole "Consumer" class is going to learn the difference between needs and wants. There's nothing wrong with wanting something new once in a while. But the Consumerism thing has gone overboard. America's up to its head in debt and Americans are still paving over farms and forests to build more houses and roads.

And they don't? According to Giving U.S.A.’s annual report, published by the American Association of Fundraising Counsel (AAFRC), Americans gave an estimated $240.92 billion to charity in 2002.
source

Well not being a christian I am not entirely certain what deeper meaning I am supposed to recognize at christmas time but my family tradition has always involved and I have no urge to change it..a bit of consumerism. I also do not know one single person who celebrates this "black friday" in fact I only just found out a black friday even existed. Perhaps it's hype is just more hype.

I really do not believe it is any of our own responsibility or concern to regulate how others celebrate holidays..not individually and certainly not through the government.



I also wanted to comment on these Great Depression comments...why, how and when the Great Depression began is nothing more than theoretical. Claiming it was a result of consumer consumption alone is merely a assertion of one theory not absolute fact. I personally do not believe a slow down in consumption is even remotely possible in causing such widespread and lasting economic damage and I do believe that having American consumers trim down a bit would be helpful for the US economy ..just not now during the holidays.

1.)Should we have a public advertising program to campaign against over-consumerism?

What would be the over consumerism. People living beyond there means in relation to consumption? People buying products with no regard to impact the product has on the environment? There seems to be many angles you can place on consumerism, but in many ways it could have the whole anti-American appeal to it. Capitalism in relation to economy would freak many economists out if people were preaching about reducing money and product flow.

2.)If a company's profit margin rises, but people are fighting for goods, is it truly what we want for society?

That basically would require to make socialism more prominent in thought in regards to any company. To simply think about how much toilet paper is used by American citizens in a calendar year alone is scary, that is just one particular aspect of product consumption in relation to population. In a circle of life or food chain type of sense, if a environment does not have enough food for one type of organism, it could have an impact on the population or health of another type of organism, or if oil cost becomes to much, certain economic brackets of people in society may simply become unable to live according to the currently established means, which I would perceive as wrong, but its open to debate.

3.)Is there any way that business will promote healthy public social interaction in society?

This is a nice aspect of freedom overall. I read about people that spend sixty five million dollars to build a wheelchair for a crippled bear cub, to companies that cause floods and displace folks in order to make a few bucks in china. I think that companies in a competitive market may not always feel they can afford to be soft, or that every penny and way to make said penny is the winning attitude, which then could lead to aspects in a capitalist society that people overall might look down upon. Overall, business is not just one uniform entity, its got an individual aspect overall in society, or you can find the business that seems to care about issues while others simply don’t.

Nicely put.

1.)Should we have a public advertising program to campaign against over-consumerism?

No. We should have one encouraging good manners in public.

2.)If a company's profit margin rises, but people are fighting for goods, is it truly what we want for society?

I don't like to see mob or "herd" mentality. I used to work as a cashier at a well-known retail store, and I saw all kinds of vulgar, ignorant behavior taking place. When you have customers show up with words on their tee shirts such as f--k, or p---k, or c--t, you can't very well expect them to be well-mannered or well-educated.

3.)Is there any way that business will promote healthy public social interaction in society?

I think stores like Wal-Mart gets what they deserve. A few years ago I tried asking a store manager to post signs about handwashing preventing illness after seeing so many of these 'wonderful' customers just leave the restroom without washing. I was told that they weren't going to do it because it would "offend the customers." Better to continue to spread sickness than tick off a few of these 'rare gems,' I guess.

If Wal-Mart isn't concerned about something as basic as handwashing to prevent illness, what difference do a few tramplings make on Black Friday?

Dontreadonme's suggestion to just stay home makes some sense, except that no bad behavior is changed in our society. I did stay home.* The trampling incident took place a few miles from where I live, and I would feel embarrassed about it for the sake of my state, but I've seen beastly behavior around these stores before and it doesn't surprise me.

Public service announcements about how to treat other people (aside from the obvious ones about racism and homophobia) might be an approach. And get the National Association of Retailers to foot the bill. This behavior, though common, is disgraceful and should be curtailed.

*In contrast, last Thursday (U.S. Thanksgiving), I was in a mall in Canada with my family. Everyone, by comparison to what I've seen in my own country, was so polite--customers and store clerks. It was like a breath of fresh air. Somehow we have created this problem ourselves, and we need to find a solution to it here in the land where we love to toot our own horn.

1.)Should we have a public advertising program to campaign against over-consumerism?

There is an alternative event to black Friday, and it's getting more and more coverage. It's called Buy Nothing Day. I've also written about participating in this event on my blog.my blog

2.)If a company's profit margin rises, but people are fighting for goods, is it truly what we want for society?

I've worked retail on many black Fridays several years ago, and it does get ugly.

3.)Is there any way that business will promote healthy public social interaction in society?

I don't see this happening any time soon. In the US we encourage consumption to an outrageous degree. It's no longer acceptable for corps and companies to make good profits -- the profits are expected to go up and up each year, and the costs are expected to go down each year. That's why way back in the 80s CEOs made 42 times the amount of factory workers and now they make 326 times that amount (source here.)

There is too much corporate greed out there for them to let up on promoting consumption. The US isn't the best place for encouraging social responsibility on corporations, so it's going to be up to the citizens to organize boycotts in order to make this kind of change.

PE, I agreed with the rest of your post but I must respectfully disagree strongly on this one point. Crowds and disrespectful behavior are far from an American phenomenon. It depends on where you live, but pretty much any large city during a holiday is going to be trouble (try Florence during Easter break with a baby stroller...on second thought, please don't unless you are using a plastic doll instead of a real baby). Example: Ikea store opening, London



1.)Should we have a public advertising program to campaign against over-consumerism? No. This is Darwinism in action. Anyone here standing in line at Walmart at five AM (for something superfluous I mean, not baby formula)? I doubt it. If so, wear your knee and shoulder pads. I'd rather pay five percent extra, wait, and perhaps buy less, thanks.

2.)If a company's profit margin rises, but people are fighting for goods, is it truly what we want for society? I don't blame the company for people fighting over goods. This concept is lost with me, and I like "stuff" as much as the next person. Obviously fighting isn't what we want, but it is also against the law. How is this the company's fault? I doubt they wish to be sued by patrons entering their stores nd getting injured.

3.)Is there any way that business will promote healthy public social interaction in society? I don't think it is the job of businesses to promote healthy public social interaction. Period. It is their job to sell things.

From the IKEA store opening link:

That's right, blame it on the infrastructure. Don't even hint about it being the hype that whips some customers (those whose knuckles drag on the ground when they walk) into a shopping frenzy.

I always figured that Americans learned how to stand in line (more or less patiently) from about Kindergarten on, though. Maybe, to some extent, I have bought into the idea that America is supposed to be better, particularly when it comes to behavior. Canadians do appear to have better manners than we do, though, and I see nothing in your post to refute it, Mrs. P, Florence and London notwithstanding. But apparently rudeness when waiting in line is ubiquitous these days.