Police say 28 arrested, 31 injured in Sydney riots caused by racial tensions




Australian race riots continue for second day

What are the major underlying causes of these riots?

Are there any important parallels to the "Paris Riots" earlier in the year?

What can be done to prevent further violence?

The continued unwillingness of Islamic people to integrate into western, non Islamic society.


Yes, its much the same thing.

The only difference is when the rioters are white and unified by a common nationality, then there is no hesitation to call them racist as opposed to when the rioters are brown and unified by a common religion.

Are they racist? Yes of course they are... and so are the Lebenese Australians who instigated this violence in the first place and so were the French rioters.

But, where as the French rioters have largely been met with conciliatory gestures, all these Asutralians will be met with is universal contempt.


Much could be done, but very little will be.

For a start, the politicians could be objective in their reactions and the media could stop reacting with predictable prejudgements in how they report on a situation.

Any one might who hasn't dug a little deeper into whats been happening in Sydney be forgiven for thinking this riot was an isolated case of mass racism. Hardly any of the media reports I've seen in the last 48 hours have provided any insight to the background for this violence, for example the SOP gang rapes that seem to blossom where ever large numbers of Muslims gather in western society or the years of racial violence by Lebanese and Arabs against white Australians on Cronulla Beach.

Nor is there any mention of the fact that Cronulla beach has been a violent place for decades and this riot is only one in a long procession of urban violence and the only thing that sets this fighting apart from all the others is here, this time, it was the whites who were the ones to attack.

What are the major underlying causes of these riots?
Having been to Australia and expierenced their racist and sexist culture firsthand, I do not find the last couple day's riots very surprising at all. The tension is between the growing Muslim population and the native Australians. The Australian government is aligned with the Americans and the British ideologically, therefore, they too are under attacks by the radical fundamentalists in the Islamic community. That might be a reason to explain the tension, but it is more likely an excuse to justify violence against Arabs.

Are there any important parallels to the "Paris Riots" earlier in the year?
There are no parallels in this case to the rioting that occurred in France. The French riots were similar in one way, it involved Muslims, but the reason for the riots were entirely different. The French riots were protests to the economic disparity. The Australian riots were ethnic attacks and counter attacks based on isolated incidents in a mixed community.

What can be done to prevent further violence?
The government cannot do anything to prevent further violence. They can intercede when violence breaks out, but in terms of prevention, that is an individual issue that will probably take longer than a generation of integration. I do not expect violence to become the normal behavior, but don't look for the racism to subside in Australia any time in the next eon.

The article provided stated that many of the young Arab men are low wage earners and live in poorer parts of town. Would there perhaps be a problem with employment discrimination and a lack of willingness on the part of the majority that could explain in part, the duality of low-wage jobs and lack of housing for these men?




Very well, but I do believe reading that the neo-nazis are more than active in terms of inflaming passions. Could they not play a big hand in this? On top of that, what governmental efforts are underway in terms of helping these people learn the native language of Australia as well as to take advantage of educational opportunities rather than say....low wage employment opportunities? It appears to me that Australia has appreciated the low-wage workers, but has a problem with them climbing the proverbial social class ladder. When you have a few incidences of crime, and a racist group shouting about it from the rooftops, can you really say that all Arabs are to blame and that it justifies these guys taking to the streets?

Then how do you explain the many incidents of racist attacks against white Australians, mostly women, that preceded the street violence?

Or last nights rampage when Lebenese gangs roamed the city and fire bombed cars and shops?


I disagree entirely. First of all, The French riots were not about 'economic disparity', they were about hatred. Hatred of France by immigrants and their children who expect something for nothing.

When looking for a job, one goes to where the work is, one does not expect the work to come to the ghetto where one has barricaded oneself against the rest of society.

Secondly, there is nothing isolated about the campaign of ethnic violence that has taken place in Sydney in the last few years. It is a pattern of behaviour familiar from Scandinavia, Germany, the UK, France and many other places where Muslims congregate, not least in places like Pakistan and Northern Africa were gang rape is used as legitimate method of social punishment.
Type 'Muslim gang rape' into Google and feast your eyes on the results.

As long as there is a global trend of behaviour then there is nothing isolated about whats happening in Sydney.



Of course, but how does this justify violence?

Look at it this way. Here in Denmark we are experiencing a boom time. This country has never had it so good as now. Unemployment is at an all time low and purchasing power at an all time high. By 2008 Denmark will have no exterior debt what so ever.

The only group that is consistently failing to keep up are Muslim immigrants. Whilst many of Denmark's employers are calling for more and more workers to keep up with the demand, the majority of Muslim immigrants refuse to work. They say they can't find work, but this is a lie. The simple fact is, they don't want work because work means integration. It means leaving their comfort zones and moving to where the work is. It means interacting with the Danish workforce.

The problem is now so accute here that the Danish state is offering immigrants a full year of employment, exempt from taxes in order to try and get them into the work force! Such a thing is unheard of in Denmark where taxes are heavier than any where else on the planet.

How this relates to the violence in Sydney is simple, the argument of poverty, of a lack of jobs through racism provides a convenient excuse for ethnic violence. When the rioters were interviewed here in Denmark, they also made the point that they couldn't find work, that having an Islamic name meant it was harder to find a job than if one had a Danish name.

But they made far greater noise about the fact that one of our news papers had portrayed the prophet Mohammed and just as in France, when asked what their agenda was, they didn't show any desire to find work. What they really wanted was control over 'their territory'.

The same thing is happening in Cronulla beach. The violence stems from the same root. The Islamic immigrants are not interested in integration. They do not care about 'poverty' or 'racism' either. These are just convenient excuses to push forward an agenda that seeks political control of 'their territory' and in order to do this, they'll gladly molest women, children and any one else who doesn't conform to their world view.

And whats most frightening about this, is that it actually works. Years of gang rape and ethnic attacks against whites are all suddenly negated and forgotten by one single day of 'white violence'. Never mind the fact that no Lebenese were killed or raped or that the violence was reciprocted. The consensus view is universally aggressive against 'Australian racism'.

When the Muslims rioted in Århus and Paris, there were many domestic politicians and media pundits who were eager to make excuses for the rioters. Just as John Howard in Australia spoke of the 'un-Australian' violence and 'racist', so Jacques Chirac went on national French TV and made simple minded excuses for the rioters.

'Its not their fault' is the prevailing political opinion. 'They are not to blame for the violence they've committed, they are oppressed'.

Mea culpa.


Arabs?

No, this is not a racist thing. Every one seems to want it to be though. Probably because the truth is too sensitive to address I suppose. This is not really about Arabs or any other ethnic group or about neo-nazis. This is about Islam and the ideology it dictates.

Ethnic violence is a common element of all society's, but here there is a pattern that no one wants to acknowledge.

As for the 'neo nazi's', the majority of whites who rioted at Cronulla beach were not 'neo-nazi's', they were ordinary folk like you and I. Neo-nazism is a political fringe mentality that seeks to abuse such situations to push forward its own agenda so yes, it helped whip ut the mood but the mass of white Australians at Cronulla beach were simply reacting to years of ethnic violence against white women and children on that beach.

I would add that, equally so, so the mass of Muslim rioters at Cronulla beach were not members of al qaeda either. They are just locals who are reacting.


I would also add that in the last few years Islamic immigrants have begun to swamp the biggest and most popular beach in Århus. This summer, biking out to the sea at Moesgaard I was surprised at the sheer volume of people there. It was quickly apparent that 90% of the crowd were Islamic immigrants (who else wears a burqa on the hottest day of the year?)

The mood was not violent, but I noted a distinct distance between the mass of immigrants and the few Danes who were on the beach.

Having seen whats happened in Australia I am curious to see how things turn out here.
We've already seen the kiosk that sold ice cream on the beach mysteriously blown up one night.

I lived in Australia (Brisbane) and it does have horrible troubles with racism..even I experienced them myself..but Arabs are not the only sub racial groups present in Australia.
So there has to be another reason for this to be focused in on the Muslim populations.





I am going to back moif up on this one..because I think there is a great amount of similarity. I sent moif an article..hope it is ok to disclose this..that asserted the belief that isolation amongst Muslim immigrant populations in their host nations was in fact a form of violence.
That these populations have an ever increasing antagonistic approach to Islam that in one form or another violently rejects the society they live in. So yes of course the immigrant status these people have in their host nations does to some degree isolate them...but what we must also recognize is that many Muslims are starting to adopt the view that their religion demands them to also self-isolate themselves from western society.

The reason these two separate incidents in separate countries share a commonality is because this antagonistic, separatist movement in Islam is sourced or rooted ( not the aussie version of this word!) in an international movement or interpretation of Islam that is seeking to establish a "Non-Territorial Islamic State".

This is entirely possible, but why would their assimilation be different in other parts of the world than it is in the United States?

For the life of me, I can't put my hands around the idea that America, the most hated nation in the world, has the fewest problems (or none) with Islamic communities.

I'm no expert on demographics or population statistics, but it's easy to see that there are muslims on American shores, many of which are productive members of American society.

I'd be interested in seeing a study as to whay makes the US different. Is it our EEOC guidelines? Is it because our nation's population is accustomed to living next door to foreign nationals and/or people of different cultures? Is it become Muslims are moving to more "Muslim friendly" parts of the US?
I'm really not sure..

aevans176

I think the first big difference is the simple matter of space. The USA is big and doesn't have the population density of Europe.

Then there is the history of the USA. America is young and the sense of what it means to be an American is not founded on centuries of history but rather decades of self invention. I've heard a lot of people say the biggest bonus of the USA is the way people can re-invent themselves there. This isn't an aspect of European culture that gets much credit. Being a Dane or a German is based upon belonging to one's nations and the idea that outsiders can simply become Danish or German by owning a passport is not a popular one. Especially given the indifference and hatred towards their new homes displayed by these new 'Europeans'.

Then there is the geography. America is isolated from the Islamic world (yes, I know Australia is also) but for Europe, its easier for Muslims to migrate here in large numbers than it is for them to get to the USA (in large numbers)

Then there is the culture. Whether right or wrong, Europe is generally regarded as a softer place than the USA. Since the second world war, Europe has been regarded as a toothless old tiger where as the USA is still regarded as militarily and politically dangerous.

But, what ever the causes and reasons, the bottom line is, the attacks on 11 Sept 2001, happened in New York not in Paris.

And lets be honest, America is not perfect. It has its own ethnic problems as New Orleans showed us. American city's also have high population density's and they're not exactly famous for their open, welcoming arms but rather for the glorified tribalism of rap culture.

And, one final point, before we so easily dismiss Australia as being racist, cast your eyes on some of the comments logged at the BBC feed back page ont he Sydney riots:

and



There are many other comments on the BBC site, and others conflict my perception. You can find them all here

Just as here in Europe, it seems that certain immigrant groups are unable to integrate whilst others find it easier. The question must be, why?


edited for spelling and clarification

I can see your point, but in most cases, Muslims come to the United States and settle in groups. For instance, there are no Mosques in my neighborhood, but multiple in the surrounding communities (Richardson, Plano, etc). I'd be very surprised to see large muslim populations in non-metropolitan areas. For instance, I would venture to guess that West Virginia is mostly Muslim-free....



Here's a great link to a site that shows how many muslims live in Europe.
http://www.islamicpopulation.com/europe_islam.html
There seemingly are QUITE a few...

But how many are in the US???
http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_numb.htm

I've read (including on the site mentioned) as many as 6 Million living in the US...

http://www.cair-net.org/asp/populationstats.asp


I don't disagree that Muslims can travel for less money to Europe, and often find less stringent immigration laws (or at least it's easier to get across the borders legally or illegally).

However, the point its that there have been riots in two industrialized nations in the past few months, specifically revolving around Muslims feeling "discriminated" against.



Whoa... here's where I draw the line. New Orleans had nothing to do with race, but moreover the ineptitiude of Louisiana leadership, the culture of the population, and the nature of the disaster. I sincerely doubt that NBC nightly news portrays a true picture, and from someone native to Louisiana... I can tell you that the race card being played was a simple pandering to votes and passing the buck. It's sure easy to state that the issue revolved around race considering the demographics of the city. Wonder why you hardly ever saw a white family on CNN talking about losing their homes?? Hmm...

Glorified Tribalism of Rap Culture? Come on Moif... have you even ever been to the US? What a bunch of bologna. Maybe that's your perception, but that would be like me saying that all Europeans are lazy and smelly... just not particularly objective or realistic. Sure, some (if not many) Europeans work short work-weeks and don't shower that much, but it's not a fair generalization of the whole continent. (Just as many states aren't even particularly "rap-culture" friendly...



Why would one group be discriminated against? Well, either because of their actions or racism. Guess it can't be much else... which is my question.

A point that SHOULD BE ADDRESSED is that these Muslims in both cases (France and Australia) discussed their malcontent with the employment and housing situation? ?
This leads to some interesting questions... (which revolve around Maslow's hierarchy of needs and socio-economic idealism)
Does Australia (and/or France) employ the same equal opportunity employment guidelines? How many muslims are without work?

Does the US's low unemployment factor into the lack of discontent?

Is it just easier to find housing and/or jobs in the States?

Is the situation different in Australia than it was in France?

aevans176

How do you know the Muslims were rioting because they were being discriminated against?

Do all rioters follow a set agenda? Did the LA riots happen because the people involved were being discriminated against?

I don't accept this point just as I don't understand why you've narrowed it to just two industrializd nations. As I've pointed out repeatedly, when the riots were happening in Paris (and the violence there hasn't ended by the way) there were other incidents of mass social unrest involving Muslims in Denmark Belgium and the UK.

Nor do I understand why rioting is seperated from the plethora of other crimes that build up to them. Riots don't just happen. They are the product of extended periods of social unrest. The idea that a riot takes place just because two young men are killed whilst being chased by the police or because two life guards were beaten up is naive to the point of being ridiculous.

When seeking to understand a riot it is usefull to look at the social climate which lead up to it. Preferably going back over a decade and examing the incidents which took place and who was involved.


I didn't say that Katarina had anything to do with race. I said it (it being the storm) showed us the problems New Orleans, as a typical US city, faced.

I don't dispute that the storm carried its own set of isolated problems which had nothing to do with race or inequality. Only that these things exist in the USA also and are not unique to Europe's problems with Muslim immigrants.


No I haven't, but are you going to deny that contemporary rap music celebrates cultural and criminal tribalism?

Rap music has certainly been a feature of the unrest in Europe, paricularly in France where rap music was used as a clarion call for social uprest with rappers calling upon their audience to rise up against France.

Rap is an American cultural legacy. It can't be denied that, what ever it may represent to other people on the planet, it started in the USA.


I don't know but if I look at how things are here in Denmark then I see a lot of unemployed Muslims in a time when the market is calling out for more workers.

I see a lot of Muslims talking about a lack of wark possibilities, but I also see a lot of Muslims talking about how much they hate Denmark and how they intend to take over as soon as their numbers are sufficient.

I don't see this from any other immigrant group. I've never seen, for example, a Chinese person burning the stars n stripes in the streets of Copenhagen or a Vietnamese person brandishing a pistol in the street and calling for the unbelievers to be put to death on national TV.

I've certainly never heard of any suicide bombers or potential suicide bombers or supporters of suicide bombers who weren't Muslim... at least not since the end of the second world war.


I doubt it since Denmark's doesn't.


You tell me. Its very difficult to find housing in Denmark, but this isn't going to change just because people riot.


Of course there are always differences, even when there are many similarities.

These questions you pose do not really address the topic at hand though. The major cause of the riots in Cordulla Beach and the other suburbs of Sydney can't be simply dismissed out of hand because you say nothing like them happened in the USA.

History shows us that ethnic violence is universal and that includes the USA.

Whats different here is the growing evidence of a global pattern of Islamic behaviour.

Moif I disagree as I would argue THE most defining difference or factor is culture. Rioting is not a very popular or cultural phenomena in America unlike it is in Europe. Going out and setting cars on fire and destroying other private/public property is very European. In fact it is a regular scheduled yearly event..May Day... and here in America we just don't recognize or have such a cultural practice or equivalent.
And as much as these disaffected youths would like to imagine they are not French or European they most often are.

Here is an article I read post the Paris riots...
"A Very French Message From the Disaffected"**
No other country in Europe immolates cars with the gusto and single-minded efficiency of France. Even during tranquil periods, an average of 80 vehicles per day are set alight somewhere in the country.

"Burning cars is rather typically French," said Michel Wieviorka, a French sociologist who has studied the phenomenon. "The last two weeks have been unusual, but it is more common than people realize."


Well I can't offer studies but I can offer articles or comments written that address this topic and as I said above I think it is just culture. In each society there are certain cultural norms or influencers that cause the militant/extremist Islamic followers to manifest their discontent with western culture differently. To claim it is non existent in this nation is to dispute the argument I set forth that there is an international movement to instill a "Non-Territorial Islamic State".

In this article Daniel Pipes links to and disputes another article thats seems to more or less support your argument.
No American Muslim Terrorists?

Also in the article he gives incidents where attacks have occurred motivated by militant Muslim discontent..or jihad..but I think he missed one because I am also aware of the Virginia jihad carried out at Langley.

Around 8 a.m., Kasi walked among the automobiles with an AK-47 firing randomly. The cars were stopped at a red light, waiting to turn into the CIA entrance.

"I was real angry with the policy of the U.S. government in the Middle East, particularly toward the Palestinian people," Kasi said in a prison interview with CNN affiliate WTTG.
source

So in France they may go out in mobs and burn cars whereas in the US they usually choose to go out and kill.






**The article was originally from the NYT but it is now archived this was the only way I could share it free of cost.

Before Americans get too complacent I think that we had better look again.

Do we have some of the same issues that have resulted in violence in Europe and now Australia? Heck yes we do. It's not like we didn't just have the rioting in Toledo, or remember the smug French telling us that something like South Central Los Angeles would never happen in France. It did and will again if we ignore it.

What are the major underlying causes of these riots? We lack information at this point. A lot of comments but not enough facts.

Are there any important parallels to the "Paris Riots" earlier in the year? Without a doubt. There important differences like the non-Muslims are rioting as well, but there several parallels as well. These are being pointed out, but a definitive set of reasons I have not yet seen.

What can be done to prevent further violence? After both sides are separated then police need to stop each side from any more rioting.

The main difference that I see in Australia is that the non-Muslims are fighting. This is new and I fully expect that we will see and increase in the near future as the rest of the world gets tired of radical Islamic violence and will not tolerate it as many European countries have done.

We have many large Muslim centers in America and if they decide to go the same way the violence coming back at them will make Australia pale to a minor footnote

What are the major underlying causes of these riots?

Well, I hear alot of "Islamic" stuff here - but a real seperation needs to be made between Arabic/middle eastern culture vs the actual religion of Islam- there are major differences in non-arabic muslim behavior and Arabic behavior.

There are mosques here in Anchorage- and Arabic ethinicities are a very, very small minority of the muslims here- most are of Gambian/western africa origin, or former eastern bloc countries - all of the early immigrants to my city were oil workers of course- and teh families that followed them of course were from the same region- so we have a fairly large , but extremely integrated and valuable part of our community- while still maitaining thier religion, conservative or otherwise, and thier culture.

The entire Arabic culture- is, dare I say it- an antiquated, and by todays standards- a very evil and oppressive society. I find no redeeming qualities from this culture whatsoever and will rejoice if the culture itself ceases to exist completely - not genocide of the ethnicity itself- but of the very, very bad culture that is at war with the upward evolotion of all other societies. They want to regress back to the golden age of arabic culture- when it was the leader of forward thought. And thier method for doing this is plain old outbreeding us- as moif pointed out how they would take over goverments when they became large enough.

So, to clarify- it is not islam we are actually at a world with- but with Arabic culture itself.

I think Moif hit is right on the head- they are using our own "liberal" feelings against us- our overall policy of "live and let live" is completely incompatable with Arabic culture.

And this is the clash- between modern Western culture vs ancient arabic culture.

Has little to nothing to do with poverty, race or jobs- it is 100% the attempt by Arabic culture to force thier beliefs on the societies they are entering.

When we get 20 million Arabic culture oriented citizens in America- I daresay our riots and problems will be much, much worse- due to our usual over-reaction and ideology we have here.

Are there any important parallels to the "Paris Riots" earlier in the year?

Yes, of course, as explained above- however, with one important distinction- the locals are starting to fight back- great! It is time we start condeming ALL racial discrimination, and condeming the Arab culture regularly and often- and the countries that allow Arabic culture folks to behave the way they do without stripping them of citizenship and either jailing or kicking them out of thier country will be overwhelmed and will become another Arabic satellite state.

Unlike the "cold war" = this threat is very real, and, as long as we hold our head in the sand and try to use our reason with a culture that has no reason- we will lose our freedom for sure.

The saddest part of this whole thing is how we keep mistaking racism for a serious comment on a very oppresive culture.


What can be done to prevent further violence?

Kick the leaders out of your country or kill them, and kill anyone that replaces them- this is the only thing arabic culture understands- do you wonder why the Iraqis are so willing to kill us and fight us but not Saddam? It is because they feared him and they don't fear us- he played by his cultures rules- not ours.

We have to be as brutal with those that would destroy our civilization as thier own leaders are. Yes, we have standards, yes, we value life- but, like a pacifist that will kill to save his/her own child- we need to face the reality that these poeple ARE interested in genocide, and preach it every day- they do not find genocide morally reprehensible, and in fact, embrace it. You can not allow a virus like this to exist within any body- eventually, the virus will overtake the host, and destroy it.