nebraska29
Dec 17 2005, 02:16 PM
Other threads deal with fighting regarding the wording of White House holiday cards.

In thinking about this, I can't help but think that in just a few days, christmas will be here and we'll all be with loved ones and friends. I have a few who will blow about $1,000 on gifts per kid. When you can't see children behind presents, I can't help but think that perhaps things are getting a bit overblown.

Does an 8 year old really need twenty-five new playstation games? Last year, the wife and I became literally sick to our stomachs in seeing the family's children wallowing in such a gluttony of goods.
Questions for debate:
1.)Is Christmas too commercialized?2.)How are some ways that families can take christmas back?3.)Does Christmas mean anything any more?
CruisingRam
Dec 17 2005, 04:31 PM
1.)Is Christmas too commercialized?
Wow- does ANYONE dispute this in America- we seem to be the ones really commercializing christmas- of course- I think all the hoopla about what to call it is very, very funny- considering in America- it really means "___ shopping days left until you go broke"- some religious types may protest it out loud- but those that protest I notice still manage to help commercialize it quite well LOL
The most interesting thing though- go to those supposed "godless communist nations"- and it is a religious holiday again- quite calm and serene- I spent a christmas in Russia, and it, of all things, on January 7th though- it is a religious holiday. The commercialism in most countries is saved for New Years eve- where it should be.
2.)How are some ways that families can take christmas back?
Not a clue- I think pandora's box has been opened and then blown up here- it is now a mainstay of our economy- so important, even major corporations can live or die by a good "season".
3.)Does Christmas mean anything any more?
Despite Christian protestations- NO- it never really has- after all- let's face it- it was just a co-opting of a pagan holiday anyway LOL
Aquilla
Dec 17 2005, 05:12 PM
1.)Is Christmas too commercialized?
2.)How are some ways that families can take christmas back?
3.)Does Christmas mean anything any more?
It seems to me that Christmas is whatever a person wants it to be. There are no rules on how a person must or must not celebrate Christmas. In my case as a child my family had certain traditions that we developed over the years at Christmas time. Some religious like attending the Candle lighting service at our church on Christmas eve and some more secular like the breakfast we always made on Christmas morning. Some of these traditions I have carried on with my family and we have developed others over the years. Once again, some religious, some not.
The value I see in having this special and to me holy day each year is surrounded in the traditions, the pomp and circumstance if you will as a means in a way of an ever-lasting life. Both of my parents have passed on, but at Christmas time, they come back. The memories are so vivid, the sights, sounds, smells of Christmas are all still there. I remember Christmas at my grandmother's house in Kansas and driving through the snow from Colorado to get there. I remember my son's first Christmas when his grand parents flew to California to meet their first grand child for the very first time.
This is the "stuff" of Christmas, at least for me and my family because that is what we chose it to be. It's really the true magic of this holy day.
But that's just me. How others chose to celebrate or not is up to them. If they want to buy 25 video games for their kids, ok by me. It's an interesting "tradition" I must say, and a pretty expensive one, but that's them and it's their holiday too. It seems to me that Christmas is what one makes it, nothing more, nothing less.
Julian
Dec 17 2005, 05:56 PM
1.)Is Christmas too commercialized?
It depends on who you are, really. If you're a churchman, I daresay it is. If you're a commercial business that benefits from Christmas sales, I daresay you think Christmas is not commercialised enough; the relentless Anglo-Saxon economic demand for more sales and more profit every year, year on year, regardless of other considerations sees to that.
2.)How are some ways that families can take christmas back?
Come now, I'm not sure tha Christmas was ever especially non-commerical. Think about it for a minute - what's the most common popular imagination of Christmas past?
I bet it would be the type of Victorian Christmas imagined by Charles Dickens in A Christmas Carol, right?
Charles Dickens was a professional author. It was in his commercial interests, and those of his publishers, to romanticise Christmas as much as possible, because in doing so he & they could sell more copies.
The first Christmas cards were handmade and sent to friends, enabled by the new penny post, but as they became popular, businesses started to make and sell them. Commercially.
When Prince Albert started the Germanic fashion for bringing a pine tree into the home and decorating it, he opened a new commercial market to sell tress to followers of that fashion.
Prior to these times, before the Industrial revolution, Christmas was primary a religious festival - the vast majority of people barely had no money and enough to eat anyway. What celebrations they were were not "about the family", but were more akin to the pagan mid-winter boozing and feasting that has gone on in northern Europe since time immemorial.
3.)Does Christmas mean anything any more?
Yes. It means big profits for retailers and manufacturers of all the commercial consumer goods we like to buy each other at this time of year, and all the producers and retailers of the food and drink we like to consume.
If you don't like it, you don't HAVE to take part. And if you want to change it, you'll have to do some fairly fundamental things to capitalism to stop it taking advantage of every possible opportunity. (This might not necessarily be a bad thing, IMO, but that's a different thread.)
Vibiana
Dec 17 2005, 08:16 PM
Of course Christmas is too commercialized. However, if you look closely at holidays, you will see that most of them have been commercially co-opted. Mother's Day, for example, was seized upon by the floral industry, much to the dismay of its original founder, who intended the day to be a simple but meaningful occasion for honoring one's mother.
Even Halloween and Thanksgiving have been blown up into more than they once were in order to sell candy, food, and football games.
As a Christian, Christmas will always "mean something" to me. Yes, I know, literally speaking Christ was not born on December 25, but in early April, and the December celebration was meant to bring a festive air to what was an otherwise cold, dark time of year. But whenever it's celebrated, to me it means Jesus is born.
Frankly, although my family did observe the present-giving customs of Christmas -- certainly not on the scale that it is carried out today -- I feel rather sorry for people who spend so much time worrying about purchases when the true focus of the holiday should be spending time with loved ones. When I hear radio ads about people who are "tough to buy for," I wonder who on earth would be so rude as to openly criticize a gift someone bought to please them.
My mother is gone now, but I was able to learn from her the recipes for her prized holiday foods, and in whatever way possible I will pass that on to my nieces and sisters-in-law since I have no children of my own. While I don't always get to spend holidays with my family as most of them live hundreds of miles away, I would hope that our love bridges any distance. To me, that's really what a family is about.
BoF
Dec 17 2005, 08:49 PM
1.)Is Christmas too commercialized?
Probably. It's not a problem for me personally. With no close family ties, I just withdraw from the annual "rat race." I personally see the season as the winter solstice. In general, I don't give presents and discourage people from giving them to me.
Edited to add:
There is a lot of room on the continuum between Scrooge and the glad handers who mindlessly parrot Merry Christmas with every breath.
2.)How are some ways that families can take christmas back?
Withdrawing altogether or perhaps limiting the amount spent on decorations, presents, food and drink.
3.)Does Christmas mean anything any more?
I'm not sure it ever meant anything other than the "symbolic" birthday of Jesus which is arbitrarily scheduled to coincide with ancient pagan celebrations. On the other hand, it can mean whatever the individual wishes it to mean.
AuthorMusician
Dec 17 2005, 11:33 PM
1.)Is Christmas too commercialized?
Not for us. We traditionally ignore this commercial season, but then we are old and much experienced. I give a nod to solstice and that's about it. Lydia likes to get a small decoration so the cats can play with it. This year it's a tiny fake tree with lights and funky gold hangings, cost about $15.
2.)How are some ways that families can take christmas back?
Those with children have a problem. Christmas is for kids and keeping things sane is a real challenge. We both have experience with this conundrum. Going too far practical (socks, other clothing) takes a lot of the fun out of Christmas, and going too far commercial (X-boxes and other high-priced goodies) might embarrass the kids. Or might not. Depends on how aware they are of family finances.
3.)Does Christmas mean anything any more?
Christmas means, as with anything else, what you want it to mean. Give it a religious, spiritual or humanitarian meaning. Or give it a nod, as I am currently inclined to do because money is tight again. I like the spirit of giving and helping out the unfortunate. That meaning holds my water, and it bothers me that I can't be generous this year. Oh well, the sun gonna shine in my front door someday again.
Biggest Christmas disappointment: Once got a world globe instead of the football I really wanted, age about 12. Went and did odd jobs and bought my own dang football. Then proceeded to get the tar and stuffings beat out of me as an offensive center and defensive linebacker in high school. By the junior year, I was cured of football. Too much pain and zippo for gain. Got into motorcycles and the woods.
Biggest Christmas hit: My mom knitted these really thick socks for me when I was in college. They served as great slippers in those drafty old Minnesota dorms, used them for years afterward. Comfort clothing.
Most impressive gift, in that it stuck over all these years: Sears Silvertone archtop guitar, 1962. Don't have it anymore, but I'm seldom without a collection of acoustics and electric of various makes/models, depending on cash flow and interest.
I don't think gifts should be expensive but appropriate. Lydia's daughter and granddaughter both got money this year. Go out and buy what's appropriate, we have no clue. We buy each other little things all year round that we think are appropriate for each other.
However you approach Christmas, be careful out there and have a great time.
Paladin Elspeth
Dec 18 2005, 03:34 AM
1.)Is Christmas too commercialized?
It has always been for as long as I have been alive. The commercialization can possibly be blamed for the depression that many people feel around this time of year. I've got this, and this, and a family, and credit cards, but I still feel empty...
2.)How are some ways that families can take christmas back?
My daughter and I have made and refrigerated the sugar cookie dough, and we are going to cut out and decorate some real gorgeous cookies that we will be sharing with our friends. If you can get past the stress, you can have a lovely time doing things that remind you of when you were a child making Christmas preparations with your parents.
3.)Does Christmas mean anything any more?
Of course it does. But it doesn't cook up in five minutes in the microwave for a satisfying, tasty experience. It takes time, reflection, relating in loving ways to those around you, some careful spending, and remembering that it really doesn't take a lot to celebrate it. I nearly died this year, and I am very grateful to be spending another Christmas with its traditional "warts and all" with my family.
Victoria Silverwolf
Dec 18 2005, 08:34 AM
1. I think Julian made a good point. It doesn't matter if "everybody" agrees that Christmas is too commercial. The plain fact is that the annual December feeding frenzy is a huge part of the American economy. (I think I once read that Christmas purchases make up something like 25% of all retail sales; which is just plain crazy.) If "everybody" went to a non-commerical Christmas, there would be a recession, it seems.
2. Hardly anybody in the world is like me when it comes to Christmas, but my advice for those few of us is to ignore the whole thing. This seems very easy, but it takes some effort. I have been strongly chided for not having a Christmas tree or lights on my house. I have been "dis-invited" out of certain groups when I offered my true opinion about Christmas. (Which is nothing more than to simply say that I do not like anything about it.)
3. It has never meant anything to me but annoyance. (Christmas is not the best time of year when you are a pathologically shy child who grows into an extremely introverted adult. I don't like crowds and noises, and I can't pretend that I do. That's life, and I put up with this time of year, but I refuse to act like I like it.)
To all you normal people, I hope you have all the happiness in the world at this time of year, and always.
CruisingRam
Dec 18 2005, 04:41 PM
I have to say this though in Christmas defense- My children are 5 and 2. All that jaded crap that I feel towards the holiday is totally melted at my childrens daily wide eyed joy at every pretty light and every santa claus that they see. Niether of them have ever wanted for toys or such, though they all have an educational bent = me and the wife have always seen that about 95% of thier toys are good for thier development- even disney movies we don't let them watch them in English- we watch them in Russian or French- DVDs are great like that.
I always disliked christmas for the most part- my dad made the holidays miserable- probably because we were dirt poor and Dad couldn't afford crap- that downside of the commercialization. So I don't really have a good memory of christmas past the age of 8 except one- my 14th christmas- when my dad gave me a snowmachine he pulled out of the dump and fixed up with a couple of his buddies.
But now my memories of christmas since the birth of my children is experiancing the joy of christmas vicariously throught the innocent fun of my children.
I am freakin' diggin it now man! My girl totally believes in Santa Claus, my boy is just wild eyed at everything- and it brings me great happiness right now.
I can afford any expensive toy my kids wants- but at this age- they are just not materialistic at all- and any thing they get is appreciated, and every thing she has opened at this point is "always what she wanted" - when she got a pencil with a feather and a picture of the little mermaid on it LOL
Then I think back to see if there are really any good memories in my past post 8 years old- and lo and behold- there are a couple- we used to go hunt the goose because, back in the early 70s in Alaska- all food shipped to Alaska was way, way expensive- so we went goose hunting for the thanksgiving and christmas birds- me, my bro, and my dad and our two or three labrador dogs. It was really, really relaxing and nice. My dad was not yelling and screaming or anything, and treated me as an equal in the field.
So, Christmas is still for children, and the memories and traditions your kids have will stick with them thier whole life- and thier attitude about the "american holiday season" will be part of your attitude.
And I, for the first time in my 40 years of life, I am totally head over heals in the christmas spirit for my kids- we went to my parents christmas party last night, with all our friends and family- did the chinese auction thing, and it was a blast. All the adults in my family, there are so many of us, agreed not to spend more than 10 dollars a gift on anyone except for the name we picked out of the hat- and I picked my favorite nephew- and all the men went goose hunting back in November right at the end of the season- and I still enjoy the hunt the most for my own selfish enjoyment.
My kids have made christmas a good thing for me- a major change for me!
AuthorMusician
Dec 18 2005, 05:48 PM
QUOTE
My kids have made christmas a good thing for me- a major change for me!
CR,
That's very good to hear. I'm glad for you and your family, and am in complete agreement that Christmas is for kids, but also for the parents and other adults around kids who enjoy their magic. Everyone should get this at least once.
I was just thinking about the best adult experiences during Christmas. They always seem to be when money is very tight, so each little part of the celebration carries more meaning. Also thinking on
PE's brush with death. There's nothing like that to open up to every moment.
Broke out an old Christmas carol and song book this morning. Now that I've picked back up with electric jazz/blues guitar, messing with these melodies is a lot of fun. My earlier acoustic attempts never seemed to gel, but with the amp modeling and electric sustain/power, the arrangements are coming together.
Heh, some like making sugar cookies. I like making sappy old tunes. Who knows, maybe next year I'll get gigs with the Christmas stuff. It's too late for this season, but any melody is again interesting. It'll probably carry on through.
Anyway, there's a touch of spirit here too. Hope everyone gets a dose.
Oh yeah, the commercialization of Christmas -- just say no, eh? I like the pencil story.
logophage
Dec 18 2005, 07:02 PM
Is Christmas too commercialized? Does Christmas mean anything any more?
Christmas is commercialization. That's what it means and that's what it will continue to mean. In that sense, Christmas can never be too commercialized.
This time of year does have meaning. It is a celebration of the accumulation of stuff, of spending money and of getting oneself further into debt. It is the ultimate consumerist holiday with merchants making 1/3 to 1/2 of their revenues due to Christmas.
How are some ways that families can take christmas back?
This is an anachronistic question. There's nothing to take back. The question originates from the literary romanticism of the 19th century. You may as well ask: "how can families take society back to Middle Earth?"
lizzee
Dec 18 2005, 10:40 PM
All Christmas is anymore is a day off of a work. A federal holiday, a commercial holiday etc. It is also a day in which people count down to when they get to open their gifts, Santa coming down the chimney, a vacation off of school, bonuses, and stores getting large sums of money. But what does this all mean to the actuality of Christmas? Nothing, Christmas is Christs Birthday. It is the day in which we are supposed to celebrate Christ's life, read what the bible says on the birth, and spend time with family. Throughout the centuries though this holiday has been turned into something purely commercial, and not at all having to do with the actual holiday. So in answer to your forum question, yes, it is too commercialized. But it does help our economy out a tad. So I guess it can really go either way.
UserName
Dec 19 2005, 01:35 AM
1.)Is Christmas too commercialized?
Yes it is.
2.)How are some ways that families can take christmas back?
The first thing we can do is to remember what the meaning of Christmas is.
Traditionally, it has been seen as a celebration of Jesus Christ's birth; therefore we have Christmas pageants with creches, etc. and we have many beautiful Christmas Carols to sing or hum along with.
St. Nicholas aka Santa Claus of course is another tradition we enjoy. Christmas stockings, cookies and milk left for the jolly fat man and Christmas letters and lists are part of this tradition. I see nothing wrong with exchanging gifts with your friends and family at this time of year, but I resent advertisers attempting to make me feel guilty if I don't spend hundreds of dollars at KMART or TARGET or ZALES. Therefore, the last couple of Christmases I have cut out buying for people who I felt "obligated" to give to and pick two angels from the Salvation Army Christmas tree and try to make some underpriveledged children happy.
3.)Does Christmas mean anything any more?
It does if you listen real hard.
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