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America's Debate > Archive > Election Forum Archive > [A] Election 2006
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BoF
Apparently an American Express credit card statement show that Jack Abramoff paid for an expensive golf junket to Scotland for then House Majority Leader Tom Delay.

QUOTE
March 2, 2006 — The paper trail seems so obvious it makes you wonder whether anyone ever worried about getting caught. When Rep. Tom DeLay, R-Texas, and his wife flew from Houston to a golf resort in Scotland in June 2000, the first-class airfare cost $14,001, a big-ticket item for a public servant. But someone else paid.

The American Express bills of lobbyist Jack Abramoff, who pleaded guilty to fraud charges in January, show he footed the bill for the tickets, in an apparent violation of House ethics rules.

<snip>

Federal authorities told ABC News that Abramoff began providing details of his dealings with DeLay and pinpointing a long list of


http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=1679189&page=1

Questions for Debate:

1. Is this revelation the final nail in Tom DeLay’s political coffin?

2. Will DeLay's woes negatively impact other Republicans in the 2006 midterm elections?

3. Do you think DeLay will eventually face federal charges in addition to those being pursued by Austin, Texas Distrct Attorney, Ronnie Earle?
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CruisingRam
1. Is this revelation the final nail in Tom DeLay’s political coffin?

It would seem so- though some have actually, on this board, called this scandal "another non-issue by the left wing media"- anyone want to own this statement? thumbsup.gif whistling.gif -

I think old guard conservatives, and the newer kind, have really lost thier moral compass for the trappings of power- and will, despite massive evidence to the contrary- defend ANY republican to the end- even if they are 'caught on tape commiting pedophilia while killing church ladies"- as long as they are not a dem, they get a 'pass", and there will be stalwart defenders of Delay no matter how much evidence piles up against him, claiming either "Clinton did it" or "It is the Left wing media"



2. Will DeLay's woes negatively impact other Republicans in the 2006 midterm elections?

Not really- I think, once again, for the trappings of power- have thrown away the one thing most could, and used, to respect about republicans- outrage over wrongdoing and immoral behavior- instead, I am literally, shocked and amazed about how former poeple that used to rail, sometimes rightfully so, and rationally so, about Clinton- will now defend a republican at any length- despite overwhelming evidence that they are no better than the folks they replaced!

3. Do you think DeLay will eventually face federal charges in addition to those being pursued by Austin, Texas Distrct Attorney, Ronnie Earle?

Well, yes- it is pretty obvious. gotta check stub/ gott abramoff hugging delay off the airplane. You think even the "neo-cons" could connect the dots to this one LOL
lordhelmet
QUOTE(CruisingRam @ Mar 6 2006, 09:39 AM)

1. Is this revelation the final nail in Tom DeLay’s political coffin?

It would seem so- though some have actually, on this board, called this scandal "another non-issue by the left wing media"- anyone want to own this statement?  thumbsup.gif  whistling.gif

I think old guard conservatives, and the newer kind, have really lost thier moral compass for the trappings of power- and will, despite massive evidence to the contrary- defend ANY republican to the end- even if they are 'caught on tape commiting pedophilia while killing church ladies"- as long as they are not a dem, they get a 'pass", and there will be stalwart defenders of Delay no matter how much evidence piles up against him, claiming either "Clinton did it" or "It is the Left wing media"



2. Will DeLay's woes negatively impact other Republicans in the 2006 midterm elections?

Not really- I think, once again, for the trappings of power- have thrown away the one thing most could, and used, to respect about republicans- outrage over wrongdoing and immoral behavior- instead, I am literally, shocked and amazed about how former poeple that used to rail, sometimes rightfully so, and rationally so, about Clinton- will now defend a republican at any length- despite overwhelming evidence that they are no better than the folks they replaced! 

3. Do you think DeLay will eventually face federal charges in addition to those being pursued by Austin, Texas Distrct Attorney, Ronnie Earle?

Well, yes- it is pretty obvious. gotta check stub/ gott abramoff hugging delay off the airplane. You think even the "neo-cons" could connect the dots to this one LOL
*




Delay is already out. The republicans have, for all practical purposes, thrown him overboard. He has no real power at the leadership level anymore. Nobody else wants him around since he's "radioactive".

Will Delay face federal charges? I doubt it. In fact, I expect he'll be acquitted due to the fact that Earle's a known overzealous prosecutor with a political axe to grind. But, it makes no difference to the bottom line. Delay is finished.

If Delay is convicted, he should pay the price just like any criminal should. If he broke the law, republicans should disown him.

Perhaps Delay picked the wrong crime? Skirting campaign finance laws and taking bribes is wrong, unless of course, one is a democrat and uses "cattle futures" or a land-flip deal with a crooked Arkansas S&L as the cover. He should have just lied under oath and engaged in routine groping of his staff, not to mention creating a hostile work environment for female employees who didn't play along. Then, he'd probably be given a pass if he took the "right" politically correct stances on the "issues".
Vermillion
QUOTE(lordhelmet @ Mar 6 2006, 03:00 PM)
Perhaps Delay picked the wrong crime?  Skirting campaign finance laws and taking bribes is wrong, unless of course, one is a democrat and uses "cattle futures" or a land-flip deal with a crooked Arkansas S&L as the cover.  He should have just lied under oath and engaged in routine groping of his staff, not to mention creating a hostile work environment for female employees who didn't play along.  Then, he'd probably be given a pass if he took the "right" politically correct stances on the "issues".


Ah the universal steriotype.

When trying to divert attention away from the criminal activities of somebody you like, just bring up unproven accusations against somebody else, and that will make it all right. Doesn't matter that these accusations were never substantiated or proven, the accusations are enough. After all, the right is innocent until proven guilty, while the left is guilty even if proven innocent, right lordhelmet?

To complete the utter steriotype, I'm surprised you did not bring up Ted Kennedy as well.


Now then, back on topic:

I think DeLay's goose is cooked. I have no idea if he will face fresh charges or not, but his political career is over. This new crisi can hardly make it more over. (overer?)

The Republicans will take a hit from the whole thing, but probably not a big one, they actually did the smart thing and completely cut him loose as soon as the story broke.

The only ones who stand to suffer are the ideologues who insist on defending anything associated with the word 'Republican' and demonising anything associated with the word 'Democrat'. However, as we on this board know, those people are pretty easy to identify, and tend to be disregarded anyways...
A left Handed person
1. Is this revelation the final nail in Tom DeLay’s political coffin?

The doors not shut till he's convicted of something, so no it isn't.

Currently he says he wants to do grass roots work for the republican party...

2. Will DeLay's woes negatively impact other Republicans in the 2006 midterm elections?

Yes, though i'm uncertain how siginificantly. His bad rep will certainly hurt his successors chances in his own home district.

3. Do you think DeLay will eventually face federal charges in addition to those being pursued by Austin, Texas Distrct Attorney, Ronnie Earle?

If the law was clearly broken, then I don't see why not. Unlike his alleged campaign infractions, I don't see how he can play ignorant here.

I expect he'll be acquitted due to the fact that Earle's a known overzealous prosecutor with a political axe to grind.

Earle has prosecuted more Dems then Reps, and wish people would stop pretending he's biased.
BoF
QUOTE(A left Handed person @ Apr 30 2006, 03:47 PM)
3. Do you think DeLay will eventually face federal charges in addition to those being pursued by Austin, Texas Distrct Attorney, Ronnie Earle?

If the law was clearly broken, then I don't see why not.  Unlike his alleged campaign infractions, I don't see how he can play ignorant here. 

I expect he'll be acquitted due to the fact that Earle's a known overzealous prosecutor with a political axe to grind.

Earle has prosecuted more Dems then Reps, and wish people would stop pretending he's biased.


The question here is about a federal, not a state indictment. DeLay may beat Earle's charges, but if he's indicted in federal court, the rap will be harder to beat and should it come before November 2006, it will be a disaster for the Republicans.

Federal Acquittals

I think DeLay will be indicted by a federal grand jury and will cop some sort of plea.
A left Handed person
Delay is bad for Republicans, but how bad is difficult to ascertain, as we have no way of isolating his effect as a variable. The Republicans are all around doing terribly now, as moderates have almost uniformly swung away from then, and a portion of their core is in an uproar over how they have been handling many issues. Delay is a factor in their current problems, but he is certainly not the only factor.

The most smug way (for me) this could end, is him getting indited just a few days before the polls open up in November.
Dadzilla
1. Is this revelation the final nail in Tom DeLay’s political coffin?

DeLay's goose was cooked the moment "the hammer" left office. He has over the years made a few enemies in Congress with his strong-arm tactics, and not just Democrats. I expect only the most far right of the party will support him in any future political aspirations.

2. Will DeLay's woes negatively impact other Republicans in the 2006 midterm elections?

In his own district I believe his name is still on the ballot... but that's Texas and they will elect almost anyone. On the national level DeLay while fading, is the poster boy for bad ethics. I expect anyone closely associated with him will see a few pointed campaign adds reminding voters of that.

3. Do you think DeLay will eventually face federal charges in addition to those being pursued by Austin, Texas Distrct Attorney, Ronnie Earle?

While that seems almost a certainty, in turn you can expect to see DeLay rolling over and cutting a deal. DeLay may be a fig fish, but a sitting Congressman is a even bigger fish.
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