With 'Black. White,' Producer R.J. Cutler Turns Up the Contrast on Race

I would recommend a read-through of the article, it lists details I don't reference here and explains the format a little better.

Does the show stand of a chance of being a meaningful demonstration of race relations in America?


I don't have access to regular cable around these parts so any opinions by those who do are welcome.

Does the show stand of a chance of being a meaningful demonstration of race relations in America?

I think this has a chance of being meaningful, but we'll have to wait and see.

I'm basing my opinion on the fact that something similar was done decades ago.

The late novelist John Howard Griffin, darkened his skin through the use dyes, etc. He traveled through the South of the late 1950s and recorded his experience in a well-known book entitled Black Like Me

http://www.wingspress.com/Titles/Black_Like_Me.html

That was exactly where mind mind went when I first heard about this. Although I've never read "Black Like Me" (I plan on correcting that soon ).

I knew about the concept and about the things that the book revealed. I wonder if this show could be as enlightening on modern race relations.

The only obvious problem I see is that with all the cameras around, people are going to be a little more careful.

...but from what I read in the article the in-house discussions (the families live in the same house for the show) should be interesting. Perhaps they will discuss experiences off camera.

Does the show stand of a chance of being a meaningful demonstration of race relations in America?

I've watched the first two episodes, and I have to say they couldn't have picked a worse white family to "become black". The daughter, Rose, at least has a modicum of class, compassion and understanding, and an awareness that she doesn't know what it's like to be black. Her parents, on the other hand...whew, where to begin? Bruno, the father, has this holier-than-thou belief that he isn't racist, that racism only exists because blacks "take things wrong", and has an uncomfortable fondness for the "n" word. He even stated his eagerness for someone to call him that so he could just shrug it off and say whatever. Mom's just freakin' clueless; she reminds me of those upper-middle class white suburban women who say they aren't racist, "after all I have black friends". Ugh. She calls Renee (the black mom "bitch" and thinks it's an affectionate term black women use with each other, and calls one of the slam poetry group "beautiful black creature". These people make me embarrassed to be of the same race. It makes me cringe and squirm.

I also found it disturbing when Brian, in white makeup, gets a job in a sports bar in La Canada. A white customer tells him how great the neighborhood is, how it's mostly caucasian and they don't have the "same problems" that (more racially diverse) nearby neighborhoods have. I can't imagine how Brian felt listening to this drivel. Then Brian's wife goes into the bar (without white makeup) and some ignorant white dude starts going on how "blacks take pride in being dumb". Gads.

I think it's unfortunate that each race will be "judged" by these particular representatives. Sadly, it does show just how deep the divide is between the races. The young people are the only ones who seem "real" in this show.

Maybe this show does more harm than good, confirming some viewers' preconcpetions - see, blacks and whites will never understand each other, we'll always be 'different'.

The entire premise of this show seems to be looking for something easy to find.

For example, here in Ohio, I could find rednecks living in trailer parks drinking PBR while watching NASCAR talking about how stupid and privileged people like me living in my neighborhood are. I could find old people driving 45 MPH in the fast lane with the left turn signal on. I could turn on the TV and hear one of the poverty pimps like Jesse Jackson or Louis Farrakhan tell me how evil I am. Talk about stringing up a bunch of Muslims, and you'd probably get volunteers to help.

In other words, bigotry exists in all shapes and sizes. Blacks somehow think they have a patent on this behavior. But the difference is critical. If we talk bad about the mentally challenged, old people, Muslims, Jews, or uppity white people, we get laughs. Society as a rule could care less. Talk bad about a black, you lose your job. Society has no tolerance for black racism. But we can find examples in the nooks and crannys of the world where idiots still live.

And that's news? To me, this show seems to be a tool for the poverty pimps to justify their pathetic existence. We could all stand to improve - blacks included.

I just saw a incredible movie on a new hero of mine, Vivian Thomas last night. It is on HBO "Something the Lord Made”.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_relea...4/04_29_04.html

As an inventor of a lessor ability, It hits me in a place that I could not comprehend, I get credit for all my accomplishments at the end of the day. None compare to his but mine are always credited to me. I would find it very hard to work for others that would take credit for things of that level.

Here is a man that just because he was black he was not awarded the pay , social status, prestige or opportunities and real credit he deserved. It brings one to ask how many others were denied that. I hope that the show of this debate can bring these things and other atrocities to light to show a meaningful demonstration of the past human relations and present.

DR- there is a very valid point to this entire exercise however- the miscommunication between whites and blacks, and the difference in perceptions.

I always highlight the perception of the NO katrina fiasco. Majority of whites think color had nothing to do with it, majority of blacks do.

"Povertypimps"- a word the right wing dreamed up to denigrate thier opposition- and some of the very reason that so many blacks resent white americans take on the entire racial scene in this country.

Wealth and power are finite- and everyone wants a piece, and dehumanizing the other side is part of how you go about grabbing more of both.

I cringed when I heard the white woman talking, I knew before she ever opened her mouth that she was going to insert her foot in there, and I could see the look on her daughters face that she saw it coming to LOL - you get a tad sensitive, I would think, when your race has been called various animal names, and not in a nice way, to being refered back to in a word that implies animal- but, in the laides defense- it was a clueless and innocent- mispeak?- and underlines the over sensitivty to much of this.

Most of it is, IMHO, because we don't familiarize ourselves enough with our diverse co-citizens of this country. When I am with my friends, many of them black, race is not at the forefront of our thinking and speech- hey, were a bunch of foul mouthed politically incorrect bikers in the garage, and nice mannerly Papas in the house- we adapt to our situation.

So many white Americans, especially on the right side of the aisle- but it happens on both sides of the aisle- keep saying things like "slavery was over 150 years ago, get over it, need to pull themselves up, take responsibility for thier own actions"- well, this is a pretty hypocritical and racist stance to a black person.

Slavery may have been over 150 years ago, but the civil rights movement happened in my lifetime, and only since the 80s has it been really safe to be an inter-racial couple in this country. Only since I left high school has being black been okay as a universal sex symbol- and black super models are normal.

"Poverty pimps" are just guilty of pandering to thier audience- just as Rush or Ann or GW or Delay or any "civic pillar of the ___ community" panders to thier audience.

But does that make them less important to thier constituents- or less valid POV? No, in fact, I think leaders like jesse jackson are MORE relevant to thier constituents- because, love him or hate him, he does get some of the message many blacks want to hear, heard.

I liked the show- it highlighted perceptions, mission accomplished IMHO

I think that this is exactly why people think that white- Republicans are racist... it's perpetuated in nearly every part of our society.

This show does exactly what Ice Cube wanted it to do, and that was to point out that white people, and white people only are biggoted.

Frankly, being from a very diverse community, and growing up in a city with one of the highest black populations in America (Shreveport, La), I believe that if you're looking for racism it can be found.

The problem that I have with the show, is that the black family seemingly assumes that it's the white family's responsibility to understand race relations, and even the "bitch" comment is a highlight of this notion. The word was on the paper. I can understand that a socialite family from Atlanta, seemingly removed from diversity most likely for the majority of their lives, may have no clue about black culture. However, that was Ice Cube's choice to use this family... go figure.

But that's not the only "set up". They send a black woman into a white bar during broad daylight, only to have a racially motivated conversation with a "long haired and tattily dressed" white man who is drinking alone during the middle of the day. Now, not that long hair is a precursor to racism, nor is dressing poorly, but I don't think that most white people would've picked him to represent our thoughts.

How would've Jesse Jackson and the NAACP reacted if we'd have done the reverse and sent a representative to the ghetto and found a kid on the corner with sagging pants, panty hose on his head, and hanging out at 2:00p on a Tuesday? Come on.... it would've been a storm of "biggotry". Can you imagine how someone would've reacted if we could find someone that "most likely" would make comments that fit our preconceived notions???

Frankly, I believe that they picked a black family that would get inflamed upon every word that the white people say, and that's fine. It's good tv for some.

However, how anyone could believe that this is a snap shot of black/white relationships in the United States is beyond me. I suppose if it fits how you "believe" white folks see "coloreds" then that's just fine (in my best hillbilly voice...)

The episodes seem to be a "set up" around every corner. They intentionally put a white family, obviously not accustomed to being around blacks, in situations in which they are least likely to succeed.

The reality is that if we wanted to show racism in the black community, why not send some of the same family into the "ghetto" and have them attempt to assimilate. Ask the same questions about "whites" to blacks...

Of course it won't happen. In America, the perception seems to be that only white people can be truly racist. This notion is shown on every corner and in every piece of American culture. Being born white means that you have to submit to the notion that race isn't an issue that you can address without being labeled as a biggot.

The best example of this show's obvious agenda, without regard to the reality of race relations is the part when the poetry class comes to the house and the mother attempts to make positive comments about the group... sure, the lady is kooky and probably doesn't know the first thing about these black kids or their backgrounds/cultures, but her actions were far from racist. What did the black family say??...
Of course, they made comments that painted her to be a biggot.

Since when was it the responsibility of white people to understand black culture? Frankly, if the show had an agenda that included commentary about how maybe the reality isn't that of racism, but a difference in cultural norms, I'd be very happy to tune in. It might even have a positive impact. This notion could be drawn against religious, geographical, and cultural lines across the board.

For instance, I work for a company that has an office in Manhattan that is flush with NY Jewish people. Frankly, being a Christian from the South, I feel far more comfortable elsewhere. Put my very southern family in a house with an outspoken liberal NY family, and there's a great chance that there would be conflict as well.

Is it about race???? Probably when you make it.... Is that the case with this show??? No way.... But as long as society draws lines in the sand, and we make it an issue it will be.

..and as a generally jolly fellow who finds precious little reason to resent anything I must say that hits the nail directly on the head.

Every time I hear that nonsensical, condescending...(I would engage in a more accurate description but you know...) drivel I have an urge to retch.

Those who use the term are not likely to be convinced of just how stupid and offensive it is, so just take my word for it.


In the interest of civil debate I hope we can avoid it's use. We haven't had a decent race debate in a while let's not spoil it.


Do you have any evidence to back this assertion of his intent?

The defensiveness is entirely uncalled for as I see it. The fact that any discussion of race is immediately viewed as an assault on white America is troubling.

From reviews its clear to see that both families are flawed so why do you think the intent of the show was to focus on only the white family?

Do I have any evidence? Well... how about from USA Today:


My point is that it seems like the show intentionally employed a black family that would perpetuate the idea that racism is a weight on their shoulders, and that little gimmicks like these prove the inherent racism in America.

Ironically, but not surprisingly, the show doesn't do the same thing in reverse... and that is to show the interaction of white people in black America and how they are treated in the same "gimmick situations".

If Ice Cube didn't want to perpetuate the notion that black Americans receive unequal treatment around every corner, maybe the show would dig a little deeper and have more objective situations presented.

My defensiveness mostly stems from the notion that it's ok to perpetuate the ideology of racism in white America, but we never address the idea that there is most likely prejudice in all walks of life.

I would imagine that in middle-class America, that the same people that don't want thugs in sagging pants to baby-sit their kids also wouldn't want white kids with nose rings and mohawks doing the same. This doesn't even address the outright racism against Asians (how many people make "chinese jokes" in Chinese restaurants), prejudice against Middle Easterners, or the prejudice against American Indians....

It's just frustrating that network TV puts something on so blatently one-sided and non-objective.

My opinion of good tv would be to leave the make up off, and send the respective families into very uncomfortable situations where cultural differences could be experienced by all involved.

Let's use the example of my buddy that likes to go to country bars here in Dallas... sure, people don't say a whole lot because he's with us, but a black guy (oddly from East TX) gets looks now and again.

However, why not video a white guy going to play basketball at a city rec center or at the infamous "Hoop it Up" here in Dallas. I personally can give some anecdotes of "less than comfortable" times. I think situations like this would have an impact on understanding, and maybe even aid in making race relations one step better...

I don't have much use for "Black. White." It is impossible to find truth based upon a dishonest premise. Let's put some make-up and wigs on a Black family and a White family, send them out (with a camera crew and microphones) and let them get a taste of what it means to live in each other's racial skin. How can you get any real semblance of how race is experienced via a media masquerade? That would be like having a straight man hang out in drag in a lesbian bar and imagine that gives him insight as how lesbians think.

Both familes are racial dilettantes. They dabble in a complex issue in an utterly shallow and superficial manner. Bruno can't wait to go "Black" so he can say the word "nigger" with casual impunity. Brian, in his unconvincing "White" drag, goes looking for someone to demonstrate racial bias, so when it comes he feels vindicated in his expectations.

It's only the kids who seem to go through the experiment without Bruno's absurd conviction that racism is a figment of an overheated African-American imagination or Brian's belief that virulent racial animus lies just beneath the surface of most White Americans. The stupidity and general cluelessness by the elders of the families is appalling to observe.

Insofar as watching racial realities played out on FX goes, I'd rather watch The Shield instead of "Black. White." Makeup can't help you understand how race is lived anymore than eating at Taco Bell will help you speak Spanish.

Still, the show does seem to have pushed some hot buttons regardless...




Yeah, go figure indeed. Why exactly is it that you single out Ice Cube for so much attention, aevans176 and you ignore he is only one of three producers with R.J. Cutler and Matt Alvarez being the other two? Or doesn't their racial make-up fit into your own presumptions about the show's agenda?





You do know that many, if not most, Black people do not live in "the ghetto?"

You don't even have to go to "the ghetto" to find a kid on the corner with sagging pants, (Don't know about the "pantyhose on his head?" Did you perhaps mean a "do-rag?") a ball cap turned around backwards on his head, hanging out at 2:00 pm, blinged out, frontin' some gold grillz and rocking the new joint by the current hit rapper of the week.

Stop at any predominantly White high school and you'll find the same kind of Caucasian kid geared out exactly the same way as a brutha from the hood.

So, putting a white girl in black makeup in a slam poetry class isn't isn't putting the white person in the same situation? How do you figure? I've never even heard of slam poetry until this show.

Very true, although I don't believe Brian solicited the white bar patron's racism. I lived in Tujunga for a while (a "po' white" area just east of La Canada) and I can tell you the sentiment expressed by that patron is factual. I think Brian's frustration with Bruno is that Bruno will not even admit that racism exists in any way, shape or form.

The show is definitely shallow; it's not going to solve any race issues, but it has gotten people talking, and that can't be an altogether bad thing.

I don't disagree that some kids in white America might have the cap backwards and listening to a new rap song... but about the panty hose thing, it may just be a "southern gig" but down here SOME black people put panty hose on their heads to keep moisture in their hair, etc. Trust me, it happens, and I've even seen it recently here in Dallas.... not that I care. I come from Shreveport where people still wear mullets or have jeri (sp?) curls...!

But my point is that I think that most black people don't want someone with their pants saggin' down to their knees, with their name in gold on their teeth as the poster child of "racial dialogue". The show did exactly that. They engaged in conversation with someone who, visibly, might not be the best candidate to make a point about mainstream white America.

I wasn't attempting to insinuate that all blacks live in the "ghetto", but moreover using the term to elude to a predominantly "poor black" neighborhood in the fashion that someone might use "trailer park" in reference to poor white people. It would be interesting, as I pointed out before, to send black people to places like country bars (even w/ white friends) or to send white people to inner city rec centers to play basketball (as I do weekly) with hidden cameras.

Race problems, in my eyes, are often due to an intentional segregation by both parties. It's REALLY hard to hate someone that you spend time with by choice... the office, the mall, and other public places don't necessarily count. We often don't share barber shops, don't patronize the same happy hour bars, and often don't go to the same churches. I don't believe that it often boils down to actual racism, but moreover a lack of understanding of cultural differences coupled with social woes being blamed on skin color (on both sides of the fence).

Bruno is a idiot. He's a lost cause and trying to convince someone so simple-minded as him is only a waste of time and effort. White people who deny the existence of any racism are as hopeless as Black people who see racism everywhere. Neither can further the debate because one is lost in paranoia and the other in fantasy.



There were more than a few Black people totally embarassed that "It's Hard Out Here for A Pimp" won Best Song at this year's Academy Awards. Just as there are Black people who were annoyed Denzel Washington and Halle Berry won awards for two roles (a crooked, drug-dealing cop and a wife giving herself to a racist prison guard) that weren't considered "positive."

Those folks need to get a grip.

I am so over the whole thing that ANY black person has to be "a credit to the race" before they are allowed to get in front of a television camera or microphone and expound on issues of the day. It's all very well and good to come off like Sidney Poitier at times, but I don't care if you look like 50 Cent if your words are strong and have meaning. There are a lot of fools running around in designer suits and perfect teeth that are totally full of crap.

Black people AND White people may have a problem with hip-hop culture, but they'd better get over it because it's here to stay. There are times when one has to "dress the part" to be taken seriously, but it's nonsense to suggest, "I might take you more seriously if you dressed in a style I feel comfortable with." Well, we're not going to have much of a honest discussion if one side starts setting up a bunch of predconditions before we start talking.

The truth be told; Chuck D. or Ice-T are more likely to get my attention than a Armstrong Williams. Clothes don't make the man. They sure don't make the message.

Ahh... the clothing debate again. I suppose that we should accept "hip hop" style, but not Goth clothing? What about someone covered in tatoos? What about someone with 25 piercings? What about someone in overalls with a mullet and a copenhagen cap? Are all of those supposed to elicit "comfort"??? How do you feel about someone with purple hair and knee-high boots?

I personally don't care when it comes to hangin' out and having a cold one, but my point is that I didn't like the idea that the show had Renee (a seemingly upset black woman) asking questions of a white man in a bar that many of us wouldn't select as the "pick of the litter" to be polite. He has some interesting hair, not the most spectacular clothing, and was drinkin' alone during the middle of the day. All of these combined make for a good target for a show such as this...

I don't care how you feel... but I'm not all that comfortable when southern America is portrayed by the "least educated" on national television, wearing overalls and a John Deere hat. If it wouldn't bother you that a television camera might find a black kid with gold teeth and sagging pants... that's your business. Neither case would get my vote to represent an entire American demographic.

I don't feel anything about purple hair, knee-high boots, Goths, tats, piercings, overalls, mullets or a Copenhagen cap. What I wanna know is what is it you have to say? I remember Michael Moore interviewing Marlyn Manson in "Bowling For Columbine" and Manson came off in his remarks as a pretty thoughtful and articulate guy.

The fact that he was wearing eyeliner didn't bother me in the least.

Your discomfort with "hip-hop style" aevans176 is a symptom of your own issues. I daresay more snake oil has been peddled by some slick creep in a nice suit than a homie with a gold grillz, Lugz shoes and a NBA throwback jersey.

Wow. You're embarassed to be the same race? Does that make you racist?

This is why, despite siding with progressives on many issues, I'm not a liberal. This bleeding heart mentality makes me want to VOMIT.

I can only guess that you have little contact with black folks. That you, like those surburban housewives, are isolated.

I guess you don't realize how condescending you're being in your comments, do you? You make fun of the white mom, but here you are showing the same qualities. As if there is a "good way" to treat "black folks" and these white folks just don't know how to accomplish it.

IMHO, the white mom was just trying to accomodate the black folks. She was acting out with a good nature albeit misguided. Too bad the black folks in this series didn't do the same,did they? Oh but wait, they're oppressed, they have the right to insult and be jerks, right? Funny how you only attack the white party as if the blacks have carte blanche to behave however they wish.

I understand that angst of the white Dad. He grew up being badly treated by blacks. I think most of his opinions came from anger and hatred for blacks, not because they are black necessarily, but because his association with blacks in his prior history was BAD. I totally understand this point of view although I wouldn't behave as he did.

In my life, I've been pulled over for NO REASON by a black cop in Detroit who shined a flash light in my face while I was driving. I've been assaulted at work by a black man for no reason. I've had a black manager tell me "that is mighty white of you" while working. I've had a female black manager harrass me at my job and racially discriminate against me.

I'm sorry if I don't sit on my high throne and feel sorry for black people or become embarassed when white people act a certain way toward black people (after all, I am not accountable for all white people and really don't care what they do).

Frankly, black people can be just as horrible as white people and IMHO are more racist as a group than white people. Maybe you need to spend time with them before you condemn the way someone acts around them.

Wow, I don't quite know where to start with your pathetic misinterpretation of my post. First of all, I'd like to clear one thing up: I am a professional, not a "suburban housewife" (not that there's anything wrong with that ), how typically Republican of you to assume I was. FYI, I live in one of the most diverse cities in the country, and interact daily with people of many races/ethnicities. Do you? And oh, BTW, I happen to live in an area that is probably 50/50 white/black. As for cops; well, cops are cops. You haven't lived til you've dealt with LAPD. Get off your high horse.

My point was that the families in the show were poor examples for both races - but, oh, wait, you didn't bother to read anything but that one sentence - yeah, Bruno and company make me embarrassed to be white, because here they are on TV validating all the stereotypical views of obnoxious, out of touch whites. And you conveniently missed that I pointed out that Rose (hello? she's white) is the only person of either race on the show who has half a clue; i.e. that people are people, regardless of their skin color.

So, please, by all means, go ahead and vomit - hope some of it splashes on your shoes.

Hmmm. I thought I got a pretty good idea of what you were saying when you said you were embarrassed to be white like the people on the show.

What's funny is that you then completely show a total lack of comprehension on what I wrote. If you think I'm a republican maybe you just missed my profile and my signature. Oops!

I think there's a reason why stereotypes are stereotypes. The fact you are embarrssed says more about you than them. Frankly I think the white mom made a huge effort to understand black culture and sure she showed she didn't have a clue how black people want to be treated, but it wasn't in a bad way.

You want to know black/white issues come live here in Detroit. Ever hear of 9 mile? welll I'm like 60 yards from it.

You say cops will be cops, but then say LAPD is sooo bad. Why? Because they assault blacks?

As for dealing with "minorities", my work is 80% black and 95% women. It's easy to be a Ted Kennedy and pretend blacks are poor, harmless souls when you never see them or deal with them. But believe me, when as a white person, you are the minority, and you get treated as poorly as you hear blacks are treated, you have a different perspective.

The show was interesting, IMHO. I went through a similar transition during college when my dorm was 30% black. We had similar issues and similar discussions.

I think people with good hearts act like the white mom did. They want to be good people and try to reach out to blacks. I know I acted similarly to that when I was taught by my parents not to discriminate.

But you learn and this is the only way to do it. I didn't squirm, I know where she was coming from and where Bruno was coming from. And if you knew my poor white neighbors, you'd think that the white mom was MLK in comparison. My neighbor on one side of me shot a black guy who had kidnapped someone in our neighborhood. And he repeates often "I hate N*****s". Maybe you'd be more proud of him instead?

As for the impact of the show, Ive been there and back a million times. It's still entertaining tho.