Full Version: Unsafe Britain
Three reports on the same story:
International Herald Tribune
Miami Herald
News-Press
The News-Press story is the most detailed.
In summary, Lee County school district has forbidden a school band that was invited to participate, and tentatively accepted, in the New Year parade in London from taking part, citing the threat of terrorism as the reason, pointing to the Tube and bus bombing that killed 52 last summer as evidence. There is no similar advice against travelling to New York City or Washington DC, the sites affected by 9-11.
This despite advice from the US State Department that the United Kingdom is
i.e. London currently deemed by the State Department to be about as safe for American visitors as any large city anywhere in the world as far as terrorism is concerned. Notably, Americans are categorically NOT advised that the UK is an inadvisable travel destination for business or pleasure.
In retaliation (which reflects as badly on the local British authorities as the Florida decision does on them, IMO) the organisers of the snubbed London parade have issue a statement saying that Lee County should be avoided because of Fort Myers' crime and homicide rates, Lee County's record number of traffic deaths in 2005 and that
Lee County has large numbers of British tourists, so stands to lose proportionately more tourism business than London does, especially since the Florida state authorities, including Gov. Bush, think that local officials have gone too far in their advice on visits to London.
This echoes the situation of a decade or more ago when, after the bombing of flight 103 over Lockerbie in Scotland, American tourists stayed away from the UK in their millions. At the time this was perhaps understandable, as there was no domestic terrorism to speak of in the USA, so it was an alien experience best avoided.
In the post 9-11 world, which we are endlessly told is dramatically different from the one that preceded it, terrorism is a real threat to ordinary Americans as they go about their business and - more crucially - ordinary Americans know that it is.
So
Is it sensible to give advice not to travel to London, but not issue similar advice to avoid New York or Oklahoma Cities, both of which have seen larger terrorist incidents than London has in recent years?
The wider questions is - How should Americans react to terrorism at home or abroad?
Cancel previously arranged plans out of fear of possible terror attacks?
Or be bloody-minded and stick to their plans, despite the very real, if small, risks?
Bow down to fear, or defy it?**
In my own view, bloody-mindedness should win under almost* all circumstances, because if it does not, then the terrorists do. But what do you think?
*Clearly. someone who wants to walk around Baghdad dressed as Uncle Sam should not be greatly surprised if they are shot at; the same would go for someone who wanted to parade up and down a Texas street in a turban waving a Khalashnikov, shouting "death to the Yankee infidels" and burning the Stars & Stripes.)
**I'm conscious these are leading questions, and that one man's childish boogie-man is another's sensible precaution. But, hey - equivocation doesn't often make for very interesting threads
International Herald Tribune
Miami Herald
News-Press
The News-Press story is the most detailed.
In summary, Lee County school district has forbidden a school band that was invited to participate, and tentatively accepted, in the New Year parade in London from taking part, citing the threat of terrorism as the reason, pointing to the Tube and bus bombing that killed 52 last summer as evidence. There is no similar advice against travelling to New York City or Washington DC, the sites affected by 9-11.
This despite advice from the US State Department that the United Kingdom is
QUOTE(with my emphasis)
politically stable, with a modern infrastructure, but shares with the rest of the world an increased threat of terrorist incidents of international origin, as well as the potential for occasional and isolated violence related to the political situation in Northern Ireland (a part of the United Kingdom). On July 7, 2005, a major terrorist attack occurred in London, as Islamic extremists detonated explosives on three Underground trains and a bus in Central London, resulting in over 50 deaths and hundreds of injuries. Following the attacks, the public transportation system was temporarily disrupted, but quickly returned to normal. A similar, but unsuccessful attack against London’s public transport system took place on July 21, 2005. UK authorities have identified and arrested people involved in these attacks.
The British Home Secretary has urged UK citizens to be alert and vigilant by, for example, keeping an eye out for suspect packages or people acting suspiciously at subway and train stations and airports and reporting anything suspicious to the appropriate authorities. Americans are reminded to remain vigilant with regard to their personal security and to exercise caution.
from US State Dept Travel Advice
The British Home Secretary has urged UK citizens to be alert and vigilant by, for example, keeping an eye out for suspect packages or people acting suspiciously at subway and train stations and airports and reporting anything suspicious to the appropriate authorities. Americans are reminded to remain vigilant with regard to their personal security and to exercise caution.
from US State Dept Travel Advice
i.e. London currently deemed by the State Department to be about as safe for American visitors as any large city anywhere in the world as far as terrorism is concerned. Notably, Americans are categorically NOT advised that the UK is an inadvisable travel destination for business or pleasure.
In retaliation (which reflects as badly on the local British authorities as the Florida decision does on them, IMO) the organisers of the snubbed London parade have issue a statement saying that Lee County should be avoided because of Fort Myers' crime and homicide rates, Lee County's record number of traffic deaths in 2005 and that
QUOTE
the entire area is prone to catastrophic hurricanes.
Lee County has large numbers of British tourists, so stands to lose proportionately more tourism business than London does, especially since the Florida state authorities, including Gov. Bush, think that local officials have gone too far in their advice on visits to London.
This echoes the situation of a decade or more ago when, after the bombing of flight 103 over Lockerbie in Scotland, American tourists stayed away from the UK in their millions. At the time this was perhaps understandable, as there was no domestic terrorism to speak of in the USA, so it was an alien experience best avoided.
In the post 9-11 world, which we are endlessly told is dramatically different from the one that preceded it, terrorism is a real threat to ordinary Americans as they go about their business and - more crucially - ordinary Americans know that it is.
So
Is it sensible to give advice not to travel to London, but not issue similar advice to avoid New York or Oklahoma Cities, both of which have seen larger terrorist incidents than London has in recent years?
The wider questions is - How should Americans react to terrorism at home or abroad?
Cancel previously arranged plans out of fear of possible terror attacks?
Or be bloody-minded and stick to their plans, despite the very real, if small, risks?
Bow down to fear, or defy it?**
In my own view, bloody-mindedness should win under almost* all circumstances, because if it does not, then the terrorists do. But what do you think?
*Clearly. someone who wants to walk around Baghdad dressed as Uncle Sam should not be greatly surprised if they are shot at; the same would go for someone who wanted to parade up and down a Texas street in a turban waving a Khalashnikov, shouting "death to the Yankee infidels" and burning the Stars & Stripes.)
**I'm conscious these are leading questions, and that one man's childish boogie-man is another's sensible precaution. But, hey - equivocation doesn't often make for very interesting threads
Wow, Jules! This is my hometown. In fact, I made a school trip to Europe (including London) back in 1986. I hadn't heard of this.
I think a bit of perspective is necessary here. This is one school (Ft Myers High...I went to North Ft Myers) in the United States. It doesn't reflect what the rest of the United States, or even Florida, or necessarily even what the entire school district of the Lee county espouses. To illustrate, our highschool-aged babysitter took a school trip to London a few months ago (Clark county school district in Las Vegas), and they didn't seem to be alarmed about travel in London. They had a great time.
So, to answer the questions, no...I don't think it is sensible advice. In fact it's absolutely ridiculous. I'm curious as to how long ago they made these travel plans? Was it truly before the school year even started (the time of the attacks)? This seems a little dubious. I'd hazzard a guess that there is another reason for the change in plans that we don't know about. Probably something personal in the life of the band instructor, which has now created an international incident.
I think a bit of perspective is necessary here. This is one school (Ft Myers High...I went to North Ft Myers) in the United States. It doesn't reflect what the rest of the United States, or even Florida, or necessarily even what the entire school district of the Lee county espouses. To illustrate, our highschool-aged babysitter took a school trip to London a few months ago (Clark county school district in Las Vegas), and they didn't seem to be alarmed about travel in London. They had a great time.
So, to answer the questions, no...I don't think it is sensible advice. In fact it's absolutely ridiculous. I'm curious as to how long ago they made these travel plans? Was it truly before the school year even started (the time of the attacks)? This seems a little dubious. I'd hazzard a guess that there is another reason for the change in plans that we don't know about. Probably something personal in the life of the band instructor, which has now created an international incident.
Is it sensible to give advice not to travel to London, but not issue similar advice to avoid New York or Oklahoma Cities, both of which have seen larger terrorist incidents than London has in recent years?
I can't easily answer this since I've never been to either New York or Oklahoma City.
I have been to London though and I have noted the atmosphere there and I can't say that I'd ever advise any one from America to go there because what seperates Red Ken's London from the other two afore mentioned cities, in my opinion, is the current near militant, anti American atmosphere that pervades, not just London, but most of the United Kingdom.
You don't need to visit Baghdad wearing an Uncle Sam costume in order to be accosted by raving fanatics these days. All you have to do is sit on a London bus and speak with an American accent. I personally have heard no less than ten seperate accounts of American tourists being verbally and even physically abused by Londoners. In one instance I heard about from a friend, an American tourist, a lady of some six decades, was attacked and kicked about by Arabic/Pakistani youths who hurled anti American abuse at her, whilst dozens of native onlookers walked by and did absolutely nothing.
What I wonder is this. Would a Brit be attacked for being a Brit in Oklahoma? I think not.
I can't easily answer this since I've never been to either New York or Oklahoma City.
I have been to London though and I have noted the atmosphere there and I can't say that I'd ever advise any one from America to go there because what seperates Red Ken's London from the other two afore mentioned cities, in my opinion, is the current near militant, anti American atmosphere that pervades, not just London, but most of the United Kingdom.
You don't need to visit Baghdad wearing an Uncle Sam costume in order to be accosted by raving fanatics these days. All you have to do is sit on a London bus and speak with an American accent. I personally have heard no less than ten seperate accounts of American tourists being verbally and even physically abused by Londoners. In one instance I heard about from a friend, an American tourist, a lady of some six decades, was attacked and kicked about by Arabic/Pakistani youths who hurled anti American abuse at her, whilst dozens of native onlookers walked by and did absolutely nothing.
What I wonder is this. Would a Brit be attacked for being a Brit in Oklahoma? I think not.
Is it sensible to give advice not to travel to London, but not issue similar advice to avoid New York or Oklahoma Cities, both of which have seen larger terrorist incidents than London has in recent years?
Absolutely not. Saying "don't go to a city because of terrorist attacks" is like saying "don't drive to work because you'll die in a car crash." Speaking of car crashes, I'd be more scared of that in any city than I would a terrorist attack. Here's a quote from RFERL:
I should also mention that I live in New York City, so I have little choice in whether I want to travel there or not. I live in Staten Island (the fifth boro of NYC), which is the least likely to be attacked of the five boros, but any WMD attacks would definitely force my family to evacuate. However, none of us here, or in Manhattan, Queens, the Bronx, or Brooklyn live in fear of this bogeyman except the most paranoid people. So, I say, "Carry on as usual, folks."
Absolutely not. Saying "don't go to a city because of terrorist attacks" is like saying "don't drive to work because you'll die in a car crash." Speaking of car crashes, I'd be more scared of that in any city than I would a terrorist attack. Here's a quote from RFERL:
QUOTE
Writing in "The Washington Post" on 25 November 2001, Michael L. Rothschild, professor emeritus at the University of Wisconsin's business school, provided some related statistics:
"There are more than 40,000 malls in this country, and each is open about 75 hours per week. If a person shopped for two hours each week and terrorists were able to destroy one mall per week, the odds of being at the wrong place at the wrong time would be approximately 1.5 million to 1. If terrorists destroyed one mall each month, the odds would climb to one in 6 million. This assumes the total destruction of the entire mall; if that unlikely event didn't occur, the odds would become even more favorable."
The odds of a typical American falling victim to other life-threatening incidents are, according to travel-insurance website travelfinders.com:
*Being killed by a dog: 1:700,000
*Killed by debris from space: 1:5 billion
*Freezing to death: 1: 3 million
*Killed in a car accident: 1:5,000
*Killed in a plane crash: 1:25 million
"There are more than 40,000 malls in this country, and each is open about 75 hours per week. If a person shopped for two hours each week and terrorists were able to destroy one mall per week, the odds of being at the wrong place at the wrong time would be approximately 1.5 million to 1. If terrorists destroyed one mall each month, the odds would climb to one in 6 million. This assumes the total destruction of the entire mall; if that unlikely event didn't occur, the odds would become even more favorable."
The odds of a typical American falling victim to other life-threatening incidents are, according to travel-insurance website travelfinders.com:
*Being killed by a dog: 1:700,000
*Killed by debris from space: 1:5 billion
*Freezing to death: 1: 3 million
*Killed in a car accident: 1:5,000
*Killed in a plane crash: 1:25 million
I should also mention that I live in New York City, so I have little choice in whether I want to travel there or not.
I live in Staten Island (the fifth boro of NYC), which is the least likely to be attacked of the five boros, but any WMD attacks would definitely force my family to evacuate. However, none of us here, or in Manhattan, Queens, the Bronx, or Brooklyn live in fear of this bogeyman except the most paranoid people. So, I say, "Carry on as usual, folks."
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