The interesting part of this debate is how the 'state" seperates the civil and criminal procceedings, but, yet, they are one in the same.
You see, forfieture has been deemed legal because the property is presumed to have been an accesory to the crime- so they are able to circumvent due proccess this way.
Now- Mrs P - not picking on you- but hey, you picked this thread LOL- how in the world did the "grill" help commit the crime?
Forfeture laws are very, very bad, and yes, they are overwhelmingly racist. I don't like to throw that word out in most criminal cases, because hey, best way not to get into trouble is not to commit crimes, right?
but, these are overwhelmingly used against non-whites, non- waspy types.
However, greed knows no color, and it, like everything govermental and money oriented, is finally starting to really creep into white suburbs, and folks will protest when white poeple rights start getting violated too!
But, Artemise is generally right- they aren't prying white folks mouths open and taking out thier gold fillings now are they? Should the Government be allowed to seize assets from suspects without proving the suspect guilty?
Nope, never, nada, in no way, unless it is fraud money, like with rich white guys in three piece suits.
Dave Chappelles' skit on this was probably the best answer in this debate, ever. When he switched the Crack cocaine dealer role and the Embezzler role, where the state tramples all over the constitution, shoots the dog, feels up the embezzlers wife, and provides him with an overworked and overpaid public defender, and leaves his butt in jail until trial, where the judge doesn't even have a modicum of partiality about it, and can't wait to throw this "scumbag" in jail, and all black poeple on the jury, while the cocaine dealer made an appointment for his arrest, agreed not to sell crack anymore (wink wink) and make a sizable campaign donation to the judge and every white republican he could find, and goes back out deals crack again.
The Ken Lay's are a million times more damaging to the US, and has far more victims, than the crack cocaine dealers, but, they don't have such good lobbyists and publicists, so they don't get the same sympathy from white america.
- but that is how rights really do get into the 'slippery slope" issue- you take the rights first from those that are so easy to dislike, and then start into the everyday mainstream citizen.
This is also why I say that the Republican party is the single most damaging to freedom anti- american organization we have ever had- and not in a tongue and cheek manner. It is because so many knee jerk types run to the "securty" banner when we have a problem, and it ends up, no matter what the good intentions, that we really have an abuse of govermental power in the end.
The war on drugs has allowed the goverment to sieze your property without any due proccess whatsoever, and 0 protections for the innocent, and 0 recompensation for damage when the goverment overstepps it's boundries. this is far more dangerous to actual freedom than spotted owls or whale lovers or whatever.
And now we have the "war on terror" to further erode our rights as well- because we don't care about our rights anymore, only about a 1 in a freakin' trillion chance we could get hit by a terrorist attack!
It is a very, very bad thing forfieture without due proccess- and it boggles my mind, that the very people that are against big goverment and eminent domain- are okay with this little right's killing practice we have now, and trust the goverment to do the right thing, every time, without any oversight? Should the Government under any condition be allowed to seize any body part from a criminal?
A grill is not a body part- it is a prosthesis- and yes, the goverment, under certain conditions, should be able to sieze some prosthesis- since you said any condition- not "in the light of forfeiture and selling the prosthesis to make a profit"- but I have taken away prosthesis from patients myself that were easy to make into weapons, are, more accurately, had already been used as weapons and modified to be weapons.