Full Version: How to determine if it is an American Co
I am a member of many auto and bike boards set up in a similar manner to this one- but of course, dealing with bikes and cars LOL.
Interesting debate on one of the cycle boards- what is American?
As you may know, many consider Harley Davidson to be an "American product"- though, they outsource and buy a very big chunk of thier parts in foreign lands, headlights, Slovenia, Shocks, Japan, Carbs, Belgium/Germany etc.
Honda of America makes a "Shadow American" where about 90% of the parts are manufactured, designed and made in America- more than the HarleyDavidson!
However, there is great consternation amongst harley davidson owners when someone points out a Honda is more made in America than thier beloved H-D
Then, talk began about "profits" going to Japan or US etc.
These are publically traded companies- and the largest stock holders are mutual funds- so they are owned by the world wide global investor that buys mutual funds- so, if the largest mutual funds are owned by mostly American citizens, so even it if is a company that has headquarters in country "A"- it is an American owned company to a large degree, and those corporations have to pay thier taxes when they do biz in America as well.
So my question is:
1) Can a publically traded company EVER be called an 'American" company if any investor can buy into it, regardless of what country he/she is from?
2) Are the standards of what constitute "American made" a reflection of reality in any way?
3) Is it really good for Americans to "buy American" in the end?
Interesting debate on one of the cycle boards- what is American?
As you may know, many consider Harley Davidson to be an "American product"- though, they outsource and buy a very big chunk of thier parts in foreign lands, headlights, Slovenia, Shocks, Japan, Carbs, Belgium/Germany etc.
Honda of America makes a "Shadow American" where about 90% of the parts are manufactured, designed and made in America- more than the HarleyDavidson!
However, there is great consternation amongst harley davidson owners when someone points out a Honda is more made in America than thier beloved H-D
Then, talk began about "profits" going to Japan or US etc.
These are publically traded companies- and the largest stock holders are mutual funds- so they are owned by the world wide global investor that buys mutual funds- so, if the largest mutual funds are owned by mostly American citizens, so even it if is a company that has headquarters in country "A"- it is an American owned company to a large degree, and those corporations have to pay thier taxes when they do biz in America as well.
So my question is:
1) Can a publically traded company EVER be called an 'American" company if any investor can buy into it, regardless of what country he/she is from?
2) Are the standards of what constitute "American made" a reflection of reality in any way?
3) Is it really good for Americans to "buy American" in the end?
These are good questions, in this age of globalization. A lot depends on what your own definition of an "American business" might be. Is it a company that does all of its business in the USA? Is it one that is directed from the USA, no matter how much business it does elsewhere?
1. I would say that a publicly traded company can still be called "American," even if it has foreign shareholders, if the company's directors are located in the USA, or if its employees are American, or if its business goes on in the USA, or some combination of these things. A certain percentage of foreign ownership, as long as it does not reach a level of control, does not make the company any less "American."
2. For a complex manufactured item like an automobile, "American made" probably means little or nothing. It means more for something simple, where you can genuinely say that 100% of the materials that went into the product came from the USA, and that it was all assembled in America.
3. I don't see a huge advantage to this. As you have implied, for many big ticket items, it's impossible to really "buy American" anyway. For some simpler items, it may be almost as difficult. (Looked at the labels in your clothing lately? How many say "Made in Sri Lanka" or something similar?) Bought some fresh fruit lately? There's a good chance it came from Chile.
At a time when the planet is getting smaller and smaller, in terms of the trade of goods, it might be a better idea to try to support international businesses that practice "Fair Trade" rather than trying to "Buy American."
1. I would say that a publicly traded company can still be called "American," even if it has foreign shareholders, if the company's directors are located in the USA, or if its employees are American, or if its business goes on in the USA, or some combination of these things. A certain percentage of foreign ownership, as long as it does not reach a level of control, does not make the company any less "American."
2. For a complex manufactured item like an automobile, "American made" probably means little or nothing. It means more for something simple, where you can genuinely say that 100% of the materials that went into the product came from the USA, and that it was all assembled in America.
3. I don't see a huge advantage to this. As you have implied, for many big ticket items, it's impossible to really "buy American" anyway. For some simpler items, it may be almost as difficult. (Looked at the labels in your clothing lately? How many say "Made in Sri Lanka" or something similar?) Bought some fresh fruit lately? There's a good chance it came from Chile.
At a time when the planet is getting smaller and smaller, in terms of the trade of goods, it might be a better idea to try to support international businesses that practice "Fair Trade" rather than trying to "Buy American."
1) Can a publically traded company EVER be called an 'American" company if any investor can buy into it, regardless of what country he/she is from?
I think as long as the company is owned by Americans, is controlled by Americans, and employs Americans, then it can be called American. Unfortunately, many American companies have been bought out by foreign companies. What that means is that a large part of the American living standard has been propped up by companies selling out their factories, rather than actually producing things.
3) Is it really good for Americans to "buy American" in the end?
I try to "buy American" whenever I can but the only things that I can buy that are "made in America" are Potato Chips and Soda. Packaging potato chips and bottling soda are the among the few consumer good industries that have not been outsourced to foreign countries. When Americans go into the Walmarts and Target stores, they don't think about what the Asians use the dollars for.
I think as long as the company is owned by Americans, is controlled by Americans, and employs Americans, then it can be called American. Unfortunately, many American companies have been bought out by foreign companies. What that means is that a large part of the American living standard has been propped up by companies selling out their factories, rather than actually producing things.
3) Is it really good for Americans to "buy American" in the end?
I try to "buy American" whenever I can but the only things that I can buy that are "made in America" are Potato Chips and Soda. Packaging potato chips and bottling soda are the among the few consumer good industries that have not been outsourced to foreign countries. When Americans go into the Walmarts and Target stores, they don't think about what the Asians use the dollars for.
1) Can a publically traded company EVER be called an 'American" company if any investor can buy into it, regardless of what country he/she is from?
If there is some benefit to the US economy from a company's operations there, then yes, I think that company is to some extnet American. The extent depends on how much of the benefit derived from the US stays inside the US, to my mind. There will be some multinationals headquartered in the USA whose revenues are mostly made abroad, just as the reverse is true.
If you don't like the idea of one, then you can't have the other unless you want to put limits on free trade that favour the USA. And if you think this is perfectly reasonable, expect other countries to do the same in reverse. Since America has a colossal trade defecit and a huge government defecit funded almost entirely by foreign central banks, I'd be wary of picking a trade fight that isn't based on scrupulous fairness if I were you.
2) Are the standards of what constitute "American made" a reflection of reality in any way?
Forgive me for being obtuse, but if there WERE any standard of what constituted "American made", we wouldn't be having this debate, surely?
3) Is it really good for Americans to "buy American" in the end?
Ultimately, as we are endlessly told by American economists and businessmen when they want foreign customers to buy their goods, markets work best when they are free. This means that consumers need to be able to ignore country of origin and buy the best (cheapest/most cost effective/highest spec) goods or services based on their own needs, wants and desires.
If American businesses are not able to meet those needs as well as a foreign business can, those American businesses SHOULD be exposed to that consumer and commercial pressure as an incentive to get better at what they are supposed to be doing. And if the consumer and commerical pressure is too much for the business to bear - too bad. Businesses only exist to profitably meet consumer/customer needs. If you have to rig the market to guarantee your profits, expect your customers disappear in a puff of dust the second they get the chance.
If there is some benefit to the US economy from a company's operations there, then yes, I think that company is to some extnet American. The extent depends on how much of the benefit derived from the US stays inside the US, to my mind. There will be some multinationals headquartered in the USA whose revenues are mostly made abroad, just as the reverse is true.
If you don't like the idea of one, then you can't have the other unless you want to put limits on free trade that favour the USA. And if you think this is perfectly reasonable, expect other countries to do the same in reverse. Since America has a colossal trade defecit and a huge government defecit funded almost entirely by foreign central banks, I'd be wary of picking a trade fight that isn't based on scrupulous fairness if I were you.
2) Are the standards of what constitute "American made" a reflection of reality in any way?
Forgive me for being obtuse, but if there WERE any standard of what constituted "American made", we wouldn't be having this debate, surely?
3) Is it really good for Americans to "buy American" in the end?
Ultimately, as we are endlessly told by American economists and businessmen when they want foreign customers to buy their goods, markets work best when they are free. This means that consumers need to be able to ignore country of origin and buy the best (cheapest/most cost effective/highest spec) goods or services based on their own needs, wants and desires.
If American businesses are not able to meet those needs as well as a foreign business can, those American businesses SHOULD be exposed to that consumer and commercial pressure as an incentive to get better at what they are supposed to be doing. And if the consumer and commerical pressure is too much for the business to bear - too bad. Businesses only exist to profitably meet consumer/customer needs. If you have to rig the market to guarantee your profits, expect your customers disappear in a puff of dust the second they get the chance.
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