Here's the link:

What location best symbolizes America?

(Click on the slide show to see all the choices.)

Just for fun, let's compare our choices with those of the general public.

Can you predict what will come in first place? (Hint: It came in much, much higher than any other choice.)

Second place? (Not too surprising.)

I have to admit that third place was rather a shock to me.

Cast your vote at the end of the slide show, and you will see the results.

After some thought, I had to go with the Grand Canyon. It was here long before human beings were around, and it will endure when the USA is not even a memory.

For me, pluralism is the strongest idea for America. Consisting of diverse cultures, languages, heritages, and giving the people the power to choose their own destiny rather than leaders making the choices for them. (theoratically speaking)

I would choose a Dollar bill symbolizing America. It replaced the choices leaders made for the people, now the choice depend upon your amount of cash. Beyond patriotism, that bill is what holds America together. The freedom to buy anything and anyone, as soon as the price is right. It is not a positive image, but I guess it fits perfectly.

I voted for the French Quarter. Jazz has been described as the only original American art form. From New Orleans came such seminal jazz figures as Louis Armstrong and Professor Longhair and R&B pioneers like Fats Domino and Lloyd Price.

These are four of countless many.

The sounds of New Orleans reverberate around the world.

As a non American, I don't have the same perspective. From the outside, I think only two of these choices really "symbolise" America. I'll come to them later.

The others are identifiably American (I can only say that about the Faneuil Hall because I walked the Freedom Trail when I stayed in Boston) but only to the extent that they are things that exist in America.

Golden Gate Bridge? If it symbolises anything, it symbolises San Franscisco, which nobody could sensibly say was entirely typical of America the nation. Otherwise, it's just a prettier-than-average suspension bridge.

Liberty Bell? It's a bell, and a broken bell at that. I doubt it means much to non-Americans, and the same goes for Faneuil Hall & the Washington Monument (which, as an obelisk - though a fine example of one - isn't remotely unique).

The French Quarter doesn't really mean anything to non-jazz-aficianados, which has to include the bulk of America's population, let alone the rest of us.

And the Gateway Arch & Mount Rushmore, while impressive, just don't signify anything much to non-Americans, focused as they are on internal history and politics.

The bald eagle symbolises America more than any of them, and that's only becuase of the anthropomorhpic transferance of human ideas onto a fairly rare fish eagle - all eagles are handsome and imposing birds, which is why every culture that comes into contact with them somewhat reveres them.

The Grand Canyon is much more awe-inspiring than any of the above, but as a natural feature in a largely unpopulated part of the USA, it doesn't really have any ideological links to the USA. It just happens to be sited within US borders; it's luck, more than judgement (or destiny) that you have it. Had what we now call Australia been discovered and colonised by the people who built America, Uluru would be an equally non-meaningful "symbol" (though, paradoxically, Uluru IS symbolic of modern Australia, mostly because of it's spritual significance to the Native population which, differently from Native Americans, weren't quite as effectively extripated from most areas).

This leaves us with Disney World and the Statue of Liberty, and only one of these is truly iconic.

I am not remotely surprised that Lady Liberty leads this poll, and she got my vote. To me, as a foreigner, she still symbolises everything good about the idea of America - and the ideas that built America - freedom, tolerance, a welcome to all comers; with an indefinable jolt of rugged individualism melded with collective kinsmanship that is uniquely American.

Despite all it's faults, the USA still stands for something good and noble, even now, despite the best efforts of some (and some adminstrations of all stripes) to subvert and cheapen such things.

However, despite its non-iconic status and somewhat tawdry commercialism, I think Disney World represents what America actually is, while Lady Liberty still stands for what America aspires to be. Disney World is the mirror - the Statue of Liberty is the slim-self photo pasted to the door of the refrigerator. Like most individual people, America prefers the self-image to the mirrored reflection, but at least some look in it form time to time and still make some effort to get back to the best they've been.

This single thing - the aspiration to greatness - is the biggest and most enduring strength of the USA, and the one area where other nations differ. Unlike others, it is not explicit in American aspirations that greatness has to be won at the expense of others - even if, more often than not, that's how it works in practice.

(In France, for example, they not only have to become a dominant power again, but it has to be at the expense of the Anglophone world slipping from dominance. It isn't enough for France to be important, everyone else has to be speaking French when they acknowledge it.)

And yet you don't want to settle into a contented mediocrity (like most of the rest of Europe, who don't really want to be top dog; more through not enjoying it first time around than lack of ambition, but the effect is much the same.).

I don't know if that makes you innocent or wise - probably both - but I think you should keep hold of it with both hands, because if you ever lose it you'll cease to be Americans in such a meaningful way.

Britain, for example, rose to greatness through conquest and now pines for lost greatness. Much of British aspiration is about holding on to what we have and recapturing past glories, and not about creating new ones.

Exactly how to go about achieving this aspiration is, of course, a thorny subject. It is the subject of most of the discussions we have on these boards, since there is no across-the-spectrum agreement on how to do it.

I voted for Walt Disney World. It's the most representative of the USA whether we like it or not.

You don't see statue of liberties or liberty bells in places like Paris or Tokyo do you? No, you see "Disney World" as the representation of the USA. If McDonalds were a choice, I would have picked that.

But, think about it. What does Disney represent?

1. It's focused on entertainment just like our nation.

2. It's a "small small world".... the worldview implied in that stupid ride is considered "utopia" by many here. Can't we all just get along??

3. Many of the fixtures in the part are facades. They look nice on the outside but when you look behind the false front... there is nothing there. The castle "looks" like Neuschwanstein.... if that one were made of fiberglass and contained a gift shop and bathrooms.

4. Much of the variety is misleading. Behind the counters at restaurants in fantasyland, futureland, and adventureland are the same crappy high-priced hamburgers and coke.

5. The thrill rides have long waits.... unless you have a special pass in which case you can go right to the front.

6. The animal characters talk and have become humanized and have inspired a legion of PETA members.

I suppose I could come up with even more if I took the time.

Briefly, I chose the Liberty Bell. I think Philadelphia and Boston of the 18th century represent America in its push for independence and as population cities that we would probably recognize as villages today.

The Liberty Bell and oh drat the kids are crying and I can;t think of the name of it. The meeting hall where they wrote the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution represent American at its best. It is still a product we try to export around the world, democracy, that is represented by the Liberty Bell and the city of Brotherly love.

The Quaker spirit is gone and sometimes the nickname becomes a cruel misrepresentation today is Philadelphia is a gritty city. But Wiliam Penn's colony represents the inclusiveness and religious tolerance that was uncommon in colonial America and much more representative of what we are today.


As for Disney World, McDonald's, and Levi's, and the dollar bill, I get your points but I can't go there.

I chose the gateway arch. It just seems to me that is the one great american strength- the ability to step through a doorway and choose another path, time after time.

It is a personal thing though, don't expect many to get it.

I must heartily agree with my fellow European Julian, for me, as an outsider the only two contenders are the statue of Liberty, representing the spirit of the USA and Disney world, representing the 'flip side' of American culture.

Given that the poll only refers to locations, I can't see that the dollar bill and/or Coca cola/McDonalds/Nike/Microsoft play into this, but I would like to acknowledge Sevac's point. I don't think people really look at geographical features as being representative of the USA...

...but if they do then the statue of Liberty wins hands down if for no other reason than that it is the predominent feature of the greatest city of the free world.


This is a bit rich isn't it Jules? These days the UK does nothing but preach to the rest of Europe about its new found multiculture and how we should all emulate it as fast as possible...


edited to add the sarcastic link....

Can't answer the question because there is no All of the above, and much more answer.

So, I'll compose my own answer:

All of the above, including Pikes Peak, the Crazy Horse monument, Lake Superior, Old Man River, St. Louis Arch, Smokies, Collegiate Peaks, Great Salt Lake, bison, artsy fartsy fairs, rocking chair on the porch, dry rub pork ribs, lawn ornaments, really old cars of nondescript colors, hope and faith.

That's the summer collage.

I totally disagree with Julian's argument...
The Grand Canyon is much more awe-inspiring than any of the above, but as a natural feature in a largely unpopulated part of the USA, it doesn't really have any ideological links to the USA. It just happens to be sited within US borders; it's luck, more than judgement (or destiny) that you have it.

As an American that has spent many years living overseas it has always, always been the American landscape that has tugged at my heart, made me feel the most homesick and lost than any other image. It is the greatness and ancient strength of the Grand Canyon, it is the secret, hidden beauty of the desert that only one familiar with it would so deeply love.

I would see these images of America and I would just weep inside, it is unquestionably the land, our land that we most often find ourselves without and desperate to touch again. Any of the Americans here at AD who have found themselves absent and distant from our land will know exactly what I mean.

As for the ideological links..we carry those inside of us and never find ourselves lost from the American ideals.

The Lady with the Torch is America . the rest is window dressing. and just to get all patriotic and nationalistic--a beacon against the dark - either IN or OUT of country.















HellooooooH AmeeericA--------alabama

I see your point, but I don't think it undermines mine. First of all I'd qualify that by saying "these days the UK government does nothing but preach...."; you know as well as I do that not every Briton thinks multiculturalism is an unqualified success.

And secondly, I think this still chimes with my wider point - Britain is trying to get back to a position where it has wide influence to get other countries to model themselves on us.



As with moif I see what you mean, but I'm not sure you see what I mean.

I absolutely agree. One of the best bits about travelling is coming home - if I thought I'd never see the rolling green hills of my home country again, I would be very sad.

However, those rolling green hills are not a symbol of my home, they are my home. Just as the Rocky Mountains, Grand Canyon, deserts, forests, lakes, prairies, bayous, etc are home for Americans (even if you don't physically live directly on them).

They are 'yours', certainly, but they do not symbolise you any more than chalk grassland or meandering rivers valleys nestling against Welsh hills symbolise me. They might (and do) mean most to me, but they do not symbolise me the way Big Ben, a red double decker bus, Stonehenge or Stratford upon Avon (or the Millennium Stadium) sybolises the UK (and Wales)

I went with the Golden Gate Bridge. As the article states, it's the equivalent of the Statue of Liberty, welcoming immigrants who arrive on the West Coast. There are a couple of reasons I'd place it above the Statue of Liberty. First, the Golden Gate was designed by an American engineer and constructed by American workers during the Great Depression. Lady Liberty, on the other hand, was a gift. While I feel it's important to recognize the influence of the French on the founding principles of the US, I prefer an icon that was generated by American ingenuity and labor.

Further, I think it is important to bear in mind that the US was first settled in the west, by peoples crossing the Bering Strait, and that the country was originally settled from west to east. Rather than focussing on the Anglo-centric history of the US, the Golden Gate can help remind us that northern Europeans were not the first settlers here - even discounting the native population that predated English-speakers by centuries, Spaniards and Jews settled in what are now New Mexico and Texas well-before those English colonists even thought of setting sail. It also serves as a reminder that many immigrants to the US still arrive on our western shore.

But if we're speaking of modern icons, I would not go with Walt Disney World. The commercialism may be appropriate for modern America, but the content definitely is not. Disney World is far too optimistic, places too much faith in technology and science, embraces liberal notions like egalitarianism and environmental protection, celebrates the imagination, reveres Hollywood, is ridiculously ergonomic and efficient, and ignores religion altogether. This is American??

For a more apt American icon, I first thought of Minute Maid Stadium (formerly known as Enron Stadium). Not only is it located in Texas, cradle of fossil fuel dependence (and so much else that now slouches toward Bethlehem), it's the perfect marriage of corporate corruption and the American preoccupation with triviality. But there was something about the dainty Minute Maid herself that wasn't quite threatening enough.

Then I thought of the perfect icon: Guantánamo Bay Naval Base. Christopher Columbus himself set foot there in 1494, it belonged to Spain through most of its history, was occupied and taken by conquest in a groundless war, is surrounded by the largest minefield in the Western Hemisphere, and currently houses illegal detainees who are subject to abuse. All that barbed wire and hurricane fencing may not look great on a postage stamp, but could it be a more appropriate symbol for 21st century America?

I null voted, but if I were to vote, I would have voted for the Statue of Liberty, New Jersey. New York has already stolen the Jets and the Giants, I'll be damned if I let them take credit for Lady Liberty too.

As for my reasoning, simply, when immigrants think of America, that's what they think of. I've got to think that when most Americans think about America, they think about the Statue...So there's my 2 cents...but it's in New Jersey.

CP

We strangely agree again!!!

I voted for NO, as Louisiana is my home state and I feel like the Culture of New Orleans is as thick and robust as any other corner of the US. People in New York can easily feel abandoned, left out, and even alone in the Big Apple... heck, I've been there numerous times and still feel that way going.

New Orleans (pre-Katrina of course) was a place that it seemed you never met a stranger, never had an empty stomach, never had a bad time, and never felt alone. If I was from another country and had to encompass the values of Americans into one place... I can't imagine a better place.

What location best symbolizes America?

An interesting question. I actually voted for Walt Disney World. Why? Well, if the question was, "What location best symbolizes what America is meant to be?", I would've voted for the Statue of Liberty. But as the question is, "What location best symbolizes America?", I'd have to go for Walt Disney World because that seems to me to symbolize best what America has become.

I would say the Golden Gate, for similar reasons as Wertz. It is true that Lady Liberty was, and is the beacon of light for all those new to her soil. However, during the westward expansion of the US under the MONROE doctrine, the San Fransisco become the NEW land of opportunity. You could arrive in NY, but your wagon would soon be setting off for Californy. As alaska is so cold, it seems to me that further expansion was pretty much sealed with the settlement of California.

If you believe our ancestors, and new arrivals come to our country for opportunity, then I believe the best icon of that would be the Bridge, and the gold that people labored for.

I'll add a 3rd vote for the Golden Gate Bridge. With out a doubt one of the finest bridges in the history of the world.

I would like to add one more reason, it was built with private funds when the State of California refused to support it's construction. The citizens of Northern California pledged their homes and businesses to fund a bond that paid for the entire project.

To this day the Golden Gate Bridge is a privately owned. The Golden Gate District maintains this priceless symbol of the citizens of California.

First of all let me apologize in advance Wertz because it is going to seem like I am attacking you while that is not really true. You have just struck a nerve in one of my Pet Peeves. Anyway the first part is not that part.



I have to disagree with every one that chose the Golden Gate Bridge. It may be A symbol of America but is not THE symbol of America or, as the poll asks, the best symbol of America.



I have to disagree with this. The US was not first settled in the west. It was settled in the east. The North American continent was settled west to east according to the Bering Strait explanation NOT the US. In any case most of those people do not have anything to do with the United States as, unfortunately, most died off before the borders of the US reached them. Many of the Native Americans who's descendants are alive today actually came from the east as they were pushed west. Now their ancestors may have come from the west but they themselves didn't.



Focussing on the Anglo-centric history of the US is appropriate in many cases because the history of the US is Anglo-centric. This is not to say that other cultures did not contribute or did not have their own historys that in some cases predated the Anglo presence in the east but as a nation the founding principles were created by that same Anglo-centric bunch of revolutionaries we fondly call the Founding Fathers. In any case we can argue the good vrs evil of cultural imperialism in a different thread. The history of the United States is mainly that of the mainly Anglo people who founded the nation and expanded it and the immigrants of all races who followed.



It may be a reminder but it is not a symbol of it to most Americans. I am from the West but all I think of when I see it is San Francisco. Even those who did not come through Ellis Island can identify with the Statue of Liberty.



This is where my rant begins that I apologized for earlier.

You may not approve of the current government. You may not approve of the Capitalist society that is part of America. However you are trying to tar the whole country with the same brush. I don't agree with everything about the current government. I don't like all of the examples of how far capitalism can be taken. However I think that you are passing your hatred of certain aspects of the government to condemn all of America with your hatred. It may not be true but what you are saying comes across as Bush=evil therefore America=evil.

Maybe that is not what you are meaning but that is what is coming across in your rant. And yes it comes across as a rant, not a discussion or an explanation but a rant.

That is not what America is. There is a reason the Statue of Liberty won by such a wide margin. That is what most Americans from all political viewpoints see as America. Governments come and go. They try to restrict immigration. They try to do what they think is best. However 4-8 years later there is a new government. Things change. As for the other options, each are nice regional symbols but don't symbolize America for the majority of Americans.

People forget that most Americans aren't solid Republicans or Democrats. Between the media and the various talk shows the apparent political gap is widening but the actual gap is much smaller with a vast majority being somewhere in between. We just need to get organized, if that isn't an oxymoron. We need a system that doesn't discriminate against the middle like the primary election system does. We don't have a vote in who gets to be President. Only Republicans and Democrats do. What we get is to decide between who ever they decide gets to run for President. I didn't vote for Bush I voted against Kerry.

Anyway, my rant is getting a little bit off topic. The Statue of Liberty symbolizes America in the hearts and mind of most Americans and that is what counts. No symbol means the same thing to everybody and so you will have problems with any symbol on that list because they all have specific meanings tied to them or don't really mean anything to some people. For example the Washington monument is a nice monument to a man but how does it symbolize America. If I were to add one symbol to that list that I think surpasses all others in recognition it would be the US flag. It doesn't meet the qualifications set in the poll though as it isn't really a location. Ah well. Just go to every location on the list and I can guarantee that you will see the flag somewhere.

No apology necessary. I'm a frequent target of rants. I do, however, believe that you mistook my irony for hatred when I suggested Gitmo Bay as a national icon.

Regarding tarring the country with the same brush, I'm afraid that I'm not the one who's been doing the tarring. If Americans as a whole embraced what the Statue of Liberty actually stands for, they would long ago have rejected the tyranny of an administration that has permanently changed what it means to be American. Being American now means that we have an Executive that is unchecked by the other branches of government. It means that our Declaration of Independence, our Constitution, and our Bill of Rights no longer have meaning. In five years, we have allowed an autocratic administration to unmake that for which our founders fought and died.

A couple of small points. You are correct that I should have said "what is now known as the US" was first settled in the west. It was indeed the ancestors of the Native Americans who eventually made their way to the east coast that I meant by the "original settlers" of North America.

Also, there is a difference between being of Anglo descent and being Anglo-centric. If anything, our founders were Franco-centric in terms of political philosophy. It was against the Anglo system that they were reacting. Were those founders alive today, there would be a second revolution to overthrow our new king. The fact that we, the people, have not undertaken to cast off this new yoke means that we no longer deserve a Statue of Liberty.

And that isn't irony.

What location best symbolizes America? Too easy: Fallujah.

http://www.heyokamagazine.com/fallujah1Adobe.jpg

http://iraq-kill-maim.org/fk09/pict465.jpg

http://agora.ya.com/13m2004/25A_archivos/falujah.jpg

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/i...ah_bombings.jpg

http://www.indymedia.be/files/9900falujah.jpg

http://www.misralarabia.com/ImagesArt/5/hogoom%20falujah.gif

http://blog.newstandardnews.net/iraqdispat...Falujah-ip3.jpg

I had to laugh at this... not making fun of you at all, just the unintentional irony of your remark.

Of course you DO see the statue of Liberty in Paris, the original statue of Liberty sits on an island next to the Pont de Grenelle on the Seine, not far from the Eiffel Tower. The US staue was in fact designed, modeled and entirely constructed in Paris before being shipped to the US...


ANYways...


America has good times and bad times, it has times when it puts forth and supports its founding principles and it has times when it retreats from them and denies them. But overall, there is of course only one thing that signifies and personifies what the Us should be, and at times has been and that as others here have said, is the staue of Liberty.


Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
with conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
a mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame,
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
with silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

My personal answer is the Liberty Bell, which symbolizes the ideals of freedom and sovereignty. But I can see why most people chose the Statue of Liberty. The ol' lady isn't a bad symbol either.



Thanks for trying to interject partisan sniping into a casual/fun thread. Your myriad of links would be more at home in a thread actually about Fallujah.

With the greatest respect, I don't think it's sniping at all to point out, in a thread devoted to what symbolizes America, that we should first of all concern ourselves with those things that define us in the world at large. And I think that these days, it is our conduct and its effects in the Middle East chiefly that do that. Only today I read in the New York Times that a survey conducted in many countries shows that opinions of the United States are very low and contining to decline, even among those living in "allied" nations, and that the war in Iraq is a critical reason for that. And considering the blitheness, ignorance, smugness, cruelty, stupidity and arrogance with which we've gone about this particular war, that is hardly surprising.

So I just thought that in context of what is actually happening on this planet, it really is a little too much to return once again to a feel-good session of what a great nation we are and how superbly the Liberty Bell or the Statue of Liberty represents our core values. Does what we do not sufficiently represent us? "By their works, ye shall know them."

I have to agree completely with this post.

But the "original" statue of liberty is in Luxembourg Gardens in Paris. I only remember this because I was there in October 2001 and saw that it was converted into a sort of America shrine after 9/11. Of course, this was when "nous sommes tous les américains" was the mantra. I sadly suspect that Vlad is right and especially some of France's North African imports would have placed some nice Falluja propaganda grafitti on there by now.

The statue on the island in the Seine was actually a gift from us to the French to celebrate the 100th anniversary of the French Revolution.

interesting statue of liberty link

As we're discussing the location of the various "statues of liberty", I thought I'd add a point of information (apart from the fact that, in addition to the sister statue in Paris, there are several other replicas in France - as well as Austria, Germany, Italy, Japan, and Viet Nam)...



According to Wikipedia, Liberty Island (formerly Bedloe's Island) is
Okay, but technically it's in New Jersey, right? Well...


Plus the official address is Liberty Island, New York City, NY, 10004 - and the phone number is 212-363-7770 (212 being a New York City area code).

Granted, the Garden State often gets a raw deal in terms of public perception. However, the claim that Liberty Island or the statue, Liberty Enlightening the World, is situated in the state would seem to do little to mitigate that perception. Sorry, CP.

Thanks for your niceness. It is nice to not have someone escalate things on the boards. I know that my post probably came across as an attack to some but that wasn't how it was intended.



I don't know how those of us not associated with any particular political party are supposed to improve on this. We get the choice between people thrust on us by the R/D's. This is more of a frustrated complaint than disagreeing very much with your post. As long as the two partys have a stranglehold on the branches of government there really isn't anything the rest of us can do.

I personally am for a constitutional amendment mandating term limits. Maybe I will look into starting a thread on that.



Another topic for another thread