I put this in casual conversation because it's a pretty personal question.

I take it as self evident that everyone in this forum holds "politics" pretty high in their personal priority list. People not interested in the topic wouldn't spend any time in a forum like this.

Therefore, how important is it to you with respect to the people you consider "friends"?

If you found out that a "friend", in spite of your seemingly friendly relationship with them had a world view that you abhorred, could your friendship survive?

For example, if you are left wing, hate the president and the Iraq war, and found out your friend voted for him twice and agreed with his policies, was an NRA member, and who thought abortion should be outlawed, could you remain friends?

Or, if you're a conservative, could you be friendly with a pro-abortion admirer of Noam Chomsky or Karl Marx for example?

Would you work to find common ground or just avoid that person like the plague?

I only ask that you be honest. Of course, the first reaction for most will be "of course, I have friends of different political opinions...."

But, I mean REAL friends. Not just superficial acquaintances.

What do you think???

The answer is absolutely you can be friends. My roomate freshman year was a Jewish Democrat from NJ. I am Roman Catholic and consider myself a libertarian conservative. Never did we have a single problem throughout the entire year over politics because we both respected eachother's opinions and when we did discuss politics (very sparatically) it was always very courteous and respectful.

In fact, my roomate for next year is a friend of mine who although has never come out and said it is probably a socialist by many standards. But what does that mean? Does that mean because our views are nearly completely opposite of eachother that we cannot be friends? The truth is that we don't let such a trivial thing such as politics dictate the type of person the other is. He may be of a socialist persuasion but he is also one of the most honest and trustworthy guys I know and is an all around great friend.

If people cannot see past their counterpart's political persuasion than I think a serious problem has already occurred. You let their views define them instead of letting them define themselves. My advice would be not to care about politics so much when it comes to social situations because in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter much. Me and my circle of friends of course have discussions about life and what we have learned in classes and we have disagreements...but that doesn't prevent us from disregarding it and throwing the frisbee around.

If I limited my friends to libertarians and constitutionalists, I'd have 3 friends. As a political minority I HAVE to be open to other's position's. After all, I'm the one seen as the fringe ideology. I'll be moving to Boston, Mass for 5 years in a couple of months, I know for a fact I will be surrounded by liberals, greens and socialists...and that's cool, that doesn't make them bad people, I just wouldn't vote for them...for anything...ever.

CP

I didn't vote. I can be friends with most anyone, regardless of their views, provided they express their views and support their views above an elementary school level. Their views could line up with my own views perfectly, but if they can’t express themselves like an intelligent person capable of distinguishing how they feel from what I believe they’re not worth my time.

This is a good question.

I suppose it depends on what we mean by friendship. If it means just hanging around together, sharing some kind of activity, then there is probably no reason why two people with opposite political viewpoints could not be friends. There would probably be certain subjects you would avoid discussing, in order to preserve the peace, but that is probably true of any casual friendship.

Another factor to consider would be how passionately the two people care about their political philosophies. There are many people who may have political opinions, but who don't care about politics that much. Other define themselves by their political opinions, so they would be less likely to have such friendships.

Beyond this, there is intimate friendship; the kind of friendship which can only be described as love. It is difficult, but not impossible, for this kind of love to exist when two people have widely varying philosophies of life. I don't think anybody makes a deliberate decision to love only those people with similar political beliefs, but it is bound to be one factor, among many, which will determine which people are loved.

To address your question directly, I suppose it would depend on how disturbing I found the political beliefs of the person I considered a friend, and on how close a friend she was. I don't think I would avoid a casual friend if she happened to be a loyal Republican; I might if she happened to be a Christian Dominionist. When it comes to an intimate friend, well, I don't see how I could have become intimate with someone who had a radically different worldview from my own. If the difference between our philosophies became much greater later in our friendship, due to some radical change in one or the other of us, it might be difficult for the friendship to live.

I have to be honest. I can't be "real" friends with someone who advocates the eventual destruction of our system of government, who gives aid and comfort to our enemies during time of war, or who agrees with the same, either explicity or implicity.

Personally, that means I could never be friends with Cindy Sheehan, Michael Moore, Noam Chomsky or those who believe in that same outlook.

Of course, I have acquaintences across a variety of political thought. However, I, like most people, have a pretty limited range of acquantences which are restrained more by socio-economic class than anything else. We often mistake "diversity" with external factors that don't really matter much and which mask the fact that most people we associate with aren't all that much different in background.

I'm just being honest. I could have a superficial relationship with such a person but not a real friendship.

I voted "no". I have to admit that I probably won't be able to be real friends with someone who doesn't share my outlook on life and the world at least to a certain degree. How could it be different? How can I be friends with someone I have nothing in common? That doesn't mean that I don't have casual acquaintances and people I am generally friendly with who are hard-core conservatives. I can certainly go to a bar and have a beer with a guy, but is it true friendship? No, I don't think so. Same applies to a life partner (and, at my view, your spouse is your very best friend - at least, that's the way it's supposed to be).

I said yes, but I suppose it depends how much they talk about their views!

Frankly, I don't want to be around anyone who incessantly obsesses about politics all of the time, so whether it's "Bush is the best!" or "Bush is the worst!" it's fine with me, so long as it comes in small and respectful doses. Humor, interests, personability, kindness, things like that are more important than political opinion. Politics rarely come up in conversations with me. Last night I had friends over and we discussed foreign affairs issues, but honestly I still don't know much about their opinions policy-wise, even so, and how often would this stuff come up in friendly conversation anyway? And on that note, so what if it did and I disagreed? Frankly, I might find a person who agrees entirely with me on everything kind of boring....

I'm reminded of a time when a good friend of mine invited me to an anti-abortion rally. The issue had never come up between us, and we were both family oriented with children. She simply assumed she knew where I stood on that issue. My response? I thanked her and told her it wasn't a good day for me to attend. The matter never came up again. I'm not going to make a confrontation about politics in my personal life. I don't see the point, and I was certainly not offended by her belief system. It is her belief system, afterall, and she is a very nice person.

Now, I did grill my husband on "deal breakers" when I met him, because I knew I wouldn't want to spend my life with someone who disagreed with me on key things, especially because those things, in our case, might impact my life.

I suspect it depends on how serious the political enemy is. If someone wants to throw me in the slammer for something like engaging in peaceful political dissent, I will likely have a problem with that. If this someone wants to take away my rights, yeah, that would be a problem. Another one would be if someone is out to convert me to their idea of religion.

I'm pretty open minded.

I have two extremely good friends. One is exactly the same political spectrum as me, and the other is pretty much the exact opposite as me. And I do get in heated political discussions with both of them.

As far as dating goes, I doubt I could have a long-term relationship with a Religious Fundamentalist, but that probably has more to do with religious convictions than political convictions. There's a reason direct religious debate is not allowed on this board... However, I doubt I'd let the fact someone voted for Bush get in the way of a meaningful or even a not-so-meaningful relationship(as it did with Larry David in a memorable episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm). Of course, I live in SoCal, so it's pretty much never an issue on the dating scene

I have to agree with Mrs. Pigpen here:



My four brothers all supported John Kerry in the last election. Too bad the poor sots didn't vote for him. But the subject of politics rarely comes up between us.

Some might find it hard to believe, but politics rarely comes up in my personal life outside of . I think I'm like Bill Clinton: a compartmentalizer. I focus on the task at hand and don't let outside thoughts intrude too much. Of course, my kids are already staunch conservatives (at ages 11 and 7) despite our relative lack of discussion of politics!

Besides, if you couldn't be friends just because you thought they were wrong on a certain matter (a Yankee or Red Sox fan!!), you'd have few friends and probably boring ones to boot.

I grew up as a San Francisco 49ers fan in a house full of Cleveland Browns fanatics. I played Led Zeppelin's "When the Levee Breaks" loudly and repeatedly while my sisters were digging the Jackson 5 and my father was into Oscar Peterson.

And when I voted for John Anderson in 1980 over the peanut farmer, I was blamed for the election of Ronald Reagan. So, why the hell would it be so difficult to be buddies with someone who happens to have a different political view than my own?

I don't want anyone to beat me over the head with their politics or religion. It's fine with me if you think George W. Bush is the greatest thing since sliced bread. I think he's a dangerous doofus, but I'm not going to club you over the head with it until you agree with me.

Most people are more comfortable with those they share common interests with. But even the phrase "political enemies" is going too far for me. I can count the number of conservatives I considered a bona fide "enemy." Richard Nixon. Jesse Helms. Tom DeLay. Ed Meese. Clarence Thomas. J. Edgar Hoover. There's more but none of them were in my personal small circle of friends.

Reasonable people should be able to disagree in a reasonable manner. With a few exceptions I believe that I could sit down with most of the posters on this board and find we have more things in common than the political issues that separate us.

I don't know if that would make us best buds, but it would be the makings of a good start.

What do you think???

No problem. Most of my friends are on the opposing political side and I think no less of them for that. After all, its perfectly possible that I am the one in the wrong...

I have great friends on the opposite spectrum and it provides for some really fun banter, this is friendship, we make fun of each others political issues and the craziness on both sides. Only if either party takes things too seriously or gets angry that its a problem, I think you learn not to do that.

There are limits: hardline racists and especially religious converters. The conversation is SO dull when everything is propaganda for god.

Well... being quite frank, I have to say that this issue isn't such a problem in my socio-economic strata and where I live.

Speaking generally; most college educated caucasians in the late 20's/early 30's that fall into the middle class ranks and live in the deep south (oh, and who are Christian) are conservatives. I know... it's probably a little bit telling about America for me to say that I spend most of my time w/ folks in their very late 20's to mid 30's, most are white or hispanic, and typically fall into basically the same income group.

We do have friends who came from "old money" southern families, and often their families have Democratic ties, but generally they still posess relatively conservative values.

Most people in our social group aren't concerned with the true inner-workings of politics unless discussing property taxes in Texas!!! (specifically Dallas county!) I have a couple of buddies that are doctors who aren't too enthralled with the current income tax structure either.... then again nor am I. That's usually about the extend of our political banter.

Being that we live in a Border state, we also have discussions about immigration and what to do about it... but generally most Americans don't have strong feelings on Capitalism and it's relationship to a true democracy, etc. Heck, most college grads couldn't tell you the difference between Marxism and Alcoholism!!!

Most people I know are concerned about how to save for their kids' college, how to get the mortgage paid, interest rates, or whether we can get the back 9 in at the course by the house before it gets dark... and still be home in time to have dinner with the wife. We do talk about interest rates and the housing bubble... but frankly, we still have to get up to go to work the next day, put on our britches one leg at a time and live life the same as the previous day.

I think most people aren't happy about the war, many republicans aren't happy with ol' GW, and most people in my income bracket aren't that enthusiastic about the tax situation...

I find it funny that partisan politics is portrayed nationally as an issue, and I even laugh more when I hear someone rant (on either side of the aisle) from a completely uneducated point of view about whatever topic... especially the economy. Most times it seems to me that their problems are really with education, the job market in their area, or maybe just their stinky attitude...

Maybe we're shallow... but most days don't include any discussion of politics at all...


I'm not sure if I'm one of the 'exceptions', but basically feel the same way. If someone likes to drink a cold beer over a game of pool... has a garden or yard they can't tame, plays golf terribly, works out or runs, or likes spicy food then we'd probably find some common ground.

I have many conservative friends, so I guess the answer is yes. But I also have an example of a friend whose status has changed due to his beliefs. Admittedly they are more religious than political, but they have changed sufficiently that he is no longer able to view my actions (such as a recent marriage) or even carry simple conversation without some level of outrageous piet. I guess that matches Mrs. P's example.

In general though, I'm willing to separate politics from my relationships. Some get more entangled than others, but in general it works pretty well I think.

Not only have I been REAL friends with people with completely-opposite political stance. I've also uh... engaged in Bible-sanctioned activities for over six years with one. And I completely agree with Mrs. P that life is more than just politics.

Sure, I can be friends with people who have opposing political views. But we have to have something in common.

Nobody is going to be especially fond of an acquaintance who tries to proselytize every time they get together.

You have to establish a rapport on a more personal level, as human beings.

I could not be friends with someone who wanted to destroy my country or groups of people. For instance, I could not be friends with a terrorist named Osama bin Laden or a terrorist named Fred Phelps.

As politics is an important part of my life, I tend to be drawn to those who are outspoken about their politics, whether I agree with them or not. Granted, most of my closest friends have similar political views to my own, but not all of them. Though we've only met half a dozen times in person, I consider Jaime and Mike to be fairly close friends, for example - and our politics clearly diverge in many key areas (especially with Mike). If anything, those differences of opinion have contributed to the friendship. At the same time, though, we don't spend all of our time together discussing politics - same goes for most of my friends. It's a topic that comes up, to be sure, but it's hardly the entire make-up of the relationship.

The only times that "politics" have got in the way of friendship has been in relation to outright bigotry. I've had a few friends over the years that I've eventually found were overtly and incorrigibly prejudiced - racist, sexist, whatever - and, sorry, I could no longer sustain any kind of relationship with them. I can respect differing political views; I cannot respect the irrational fear or hatred of others. And mutual respect is key to most friendships.

One of the problems with living in Texas is that a liberal doesn't have many friends if he restricts his friendships to just other liberals. That said, I've noticed a rather small undercurrent of dislike for Bush. Three years ago eyesbrows were raised and all hell broke loose if someone spoke a disparaging word about the president. At times that was a problem. I doubt I've missed even one day without saying solmething negative about Bush the last five years. He still has widespread, though diminishing support here.

At the moment, I'm more concerned with Ben Bernanke than Bush.

The coffee shop I frequent daily is a hangout for liberals. We have one guy who has designated himself the "house conservative." He is a friend, but I'm, disappointed in him. He has a degree in political science from TCU, but has lapsed into being the Rush Limbaugh of the coffee shop. A group of us were discussing guns the other day and his comment "guns don't kill people; people kill people." Rush couldn't have said it any better.

Still, most of us consider him a friend, though I've noticed women seem more turned-off by him than the guys.

Well, I'd have to say that being liberal on the "more cosmopolitan side" of the Dallas-Ft Worth Metroplex isn't such a big deal... but would suppose that Ft Worth might be a little more conservative in general. After all... Dallas has Oak Lawn (a predominantly gay part of town) and Deep Ellum (where nose rings and tatoos are more common than blue jeans).

However, I will say that in Texas in general... it's probably not best to argue gun control!

I just thought of something this morning (but was too busy to post...).

I think there is often a strong dividing line when it comes to people with strong feelings... and that often is abortion. Strong pro-choice folks have had a hard time in my little circle of friends, as I've had a hard time in my past (when dating, etc) due to my strong pro-life stance. It rarely comes up... but when it does, folks surely have an opinion (as opposed to maybe global warming or free trade!).

Apart from stiff and aching joints, there are advantages to being a senior citizen. I remember Oak Lawn before it was a gay community.

There was a place in Oak Lawn I frequented in the mid-60s called the attic window. The window was stained glass. On Friday and Saturday nights folk singers would sit on a stool placed under the window and sing anti-Vietnam songs.

BTW: This is just a question. Isn't it possible, even probable, that there are conservatives in the gay community?

Yes. However I know people that can't.

I have one friend and mentor who was in the vietnam war. He believes that we lost the war because of the anti-war movement, and the government never told a single fabrication. He is also a strongly pro-republican.

However in every other regard he is more liberal than I am. He volunteers to mentor for programs that help equalize men and women in engineering. He is strongly for the whole woman's rights movement. He runs a robotic team in a very very liberal program with a passion. And there are a few dozen other ways in which he is very liberal.

We got into an argument once about the Iraq war. He was convinced that there are chemical weapon stockpiles. I quoted Robert Fisk, who was one of the head weapon inspectors in Iraq for the UN in 1998 who never saw any evidence of chemical stockpiles or hiding of weapons.

Since then he has found fault with everything that I do. We talk about what hasn't been done, and he openly says I must have a faulty memory. In these arguments I am usually correct on a whole, but I can't convince him of that. Even when it is obvious to everyone else that he is being stubborn. Our relationship has cooled a great deal. Why? Because I believe the army lies to the public as a policy on sensitive issues. An opinion that doesn't effects us or anything we do in any way.

I answered yes but a more nuanced answer requires some understanding of what is defined as "a friend" and also of how extreme the other person's views are. I have had fairly close friendships with conservatives and even slightly racist people in college and while on active duty. I have also developed less close but amiable relationships with lots of co-workers and vendors who I profoundly disagreed with. None of these relationships, however, come close to the ties I have developed with people with whom I share common environmental and political beliefs. These are the people I consider real friends. That does not mean that a real friend has to agree with me on every important point. One of my oldest and dearest friends is Catholic and opposes abortion while I believe in the right of women to control their own bodies.

To take the second qualification to the absurd, I could not consider a Nazi a friend, nor a hard core racist, nor anyone who was openly totalitarian. The current situation in our own political scene is at the point where I find it difficult to have friendly feelings toward someone who vehemently defends the crimes of this administration unless they are unsophisticated and I can consider them simply misguided.

If you cannot be friends with your political enemies, then you either need new friends or new enemies. As nobody is likely to abandon old freindships, I think finding new enemies would be the best solution. As the old addage goes, an enemy of my enemy is my friend.

As for a political enemy, that may be a difficult dragon to slay. How can one accurately surmise who ones political enemy is. Therefore, I find it best to make an enemy out of whoever is ignorant of my position, as they may be the best suited for attack

Yes, I think I can be real friends with almost anyone. The only group of people I cannot be friends with are idiots. People who cannot support their idea or side with reasons logical arguments or reasons usually don't do well in my book. If they can provide some support for their ideas beyond Limbaugh/Franken talking points then I'm happy to talk to them and be their friend. I guess one of my only requisites for friendship is the ability to think (even if it's something I don't agree with).

For example, one of my friends is a staunch libertarian. I don't agree with him 100% of the time but he makes many good points and I often have to think a long time about to come to some sort of conclusion. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we can't be friends as long as we're both mature and respectful about it.

My roommate for the last two years has been a strong Bush supporter and a strict creationist. This is way out there, I know, but he believes that dinosaurs are a complete hoax. As in, they never existed. I didn't know how to argue with this, but I saw that really, it's not that important. It's his belief and he's not going to push it on anyone (how you could actually convince people dinosaurs never existed or it's a big hoax I'm not sure anyway). Regardless, we got along great and had a lot of fun over two years. The point being that if friendship has to rely on peoples beliefs, there would be a lot less friendship out there.

This is just a quick thought, but wouldn't it be easier to say we can be friends with our political opponents rather than political enemies? "Enemy" is a pretty strong word.

After all, liberals and conservatives and moderates all basically want the best for their country. What that best is and how to attain it are where we disagree.

Agreed, PE. Good point...now that I think of it, the question is worded rather awkwardly..."Can you be friends with your enemies?" Um, I guess so, maybe, but if I could they wouldn't be "enemies", would they?

I find I can be friends with pretty much anybody provided they have some smarts and a sense of humour.

In fact, I can't think of any of my friends who are as left wing as I am, and in the scheme of things I am not so completely off the leftie scale that people of about my degree of lefty-ness should be all that thinly spread.

What I do find hard is being friends with dullards, thickies, morons, lunatics and the criminally-tending - and my definitions of such things include those who are prepared to kill people that don't wholeheartedly agree with them. And I have to say that such people seem to me to be fairly evenly spread throughout the political spectrum.

So while I have to agree with lordhelmet and say that I'd find it really hard to be friends with someone who wanted to see my country destroyed (however passive or active their own role in that was), I'd also find it hard to be friends with people from my own country who couldn't tell the difference between forthright criticism of my country and trying to destroy it. I do admit that there are gradations in between, however.

An excellent point, which also sums up my answer to the question. Some of my best friends had differing political views. In fact, that's often how we became friends, by having some spirited, but good-natured, political discussions. As PE states here, as long as you take the view that everybody wants what's best for the country, any enmity should go out of the conversation. As long as this view is kept, we would usually agree on some method of addressing whatever the issue happened to be. Shame our politicians can't do the same. That being said, though, it did just occur to me that political opponents on the hill seem to get along just fine, despite their rhetoric.

Actually, I think my best friendships are with those from the "other side of the aisle." They force me to grow, to challenge my beliefs and to be sensitive and otherwise on extra good behavior. By contrast, I've caught myself lapsing into Limbaugh-isms when I'm with like-minded individuals.

I think that accepting the challenges that come with having different friends is a bit like adoption. You know that you're friends because you value the other person, not merely their politics.


Wheh! For a second I was afraid my witlessness might keep us from being friends, Julian! Luckily, I'm only foolish, not treacherous.

I voted yes, but with the idea that we are really talking about political opponents rather than political enemies. With me, it would depend on how opposed to each other's views we are and how open minded we can be in terms of agreeing to disagree. I have friends who have opposing political views, but really only in certain areas. Few people will agree on every political issue. I have found that an individual's view on Bush will have an effect, however. This is interesting, because I don't think we had such a polarized nation when it came to an opinion about the Administration and its actions. So, I don't believe I could be a friend with someone who supported all of this Administration's actions.

I am looking at the poll's results, and I can't believe what I see. I am sorry, but I can't believe that most Republicans on this board will be friends with Michael Moore; similarly, I have hard time believing that majority of liberal board members could be friends with somebody like Ann Coulter who in her latest literary masterpiece called some wives of 9/11 victims "witches", saying



(Actually, I guess it's insulting to lump Coulter and good people from the Republican party together; I am hoping that any decent person, regardless of their political affiliation, will think twice before shaking this woman's hand.)
Russians say "Tell me who's your friend and I'll know who you are". It is only natural to associate with like-minded people. It seems like that many people confuse "being friendly" with "being friends".

I think everybody who reads this is going to vote that they want to be friends with everybody...So in the spirit of debate, I am going to say that, no I cannot be friends with a political enemy.

Ill come up with some reasons. First, as pointed out in the art of war, it is best to know ones enemy. In the political sphere then, if you know your enemy, you know that they are tying to achieve opposite of what you are, or meerly trying to hamper your achievements. If you knew this person meerly held an incorrect or misinformed opinion, they would not be your enemy, just slow.

A second reason. Without enemies, our system of government would not work. It is these miraculous crossing the party line moments when things get achieved. I doubt that they are all friends in Washington, and simply differ on issues. It is the fact that they can sign something created by a person they despise is why they crave such publicity for such moments.

A final thought, on the context of the question. We are not talking about our friends who happen to have different political views, as so many posters have done. This is because the question presupposes that the person in question is not already your friend. Yes, its true, all the warm posts about friends and their lack of ideological collusion are rather irrevelant. The question asks about enemies, and if they can meet the requisite conditions for friendship. I doubt many would answer yes.

To me, it's doable. I have a hard time on another board though, where I'm the only liberal and the other fifteen members are conservatives. We really get into at times and most of the time, I just have to let an issue go as I don't want to agitate people further. King of weird, but it's the anomaly of my experiences.

I said "no". I'm being completely honest here. As much as I'd like to say "yes", I see who my friends are and I realize that I could never be friends with political enemies. Anyone taking a pro-gay marriage ban stance already insults my entire being, and no amount of "It's nothing personal!" is going to help change that fact. When it comes to certain political topics, there can be no friendship maintained with differing political ideals.

I have a friend who is extremely anti-illegal immigration. She and I live together, and this issue would polarize us. However, after much work, I convinced her of her errors. But seriously, it was a very touchy issue that neither of us would bring up because we both felt strongly about our completely opposite opinions.