Full Version: The United States Military
QUOTE(Trouble @ Sep 21 2006, 02:05 PM) 
QUOTE(Mrs.Pigpen)
420 democratically elected civilians.
420 people voted on a bill that not a single one of them read. They did as a show of faith and solidarity in a unique show of support to a once in a lifetime event. The fact you brought this up is disturbing considering most of the bills passed through congress remain unread
What is also curious is by mentioning the defense secretary you've made a distinction that civilian officials and military life are separate when nothing could be farther from the truth.
The upper echelons epitomize the blurring of business and special interest groups which blend all three groups together. Such an entity has the ability to sidestep congress, to sidestep the constitution and to sidestep the accountability mechanism I assume you are trying to equate.
Please elaborate on how those "upper echelons" sidestep congress? This is very interesting because, in the world I'm familiar with, the military has actually been forced to buy equipment it doesn't even want because of Congressmen. The military often can't even close superfluous bases because of their location.
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I've chosen the second route by demonstrating corruption of policy has a much greater effect on what happens on the ground. I've argued policy and if it sounds like I've mixed many issues together it is because I've looked at far too many economic charts which have gone bad just before we were confronted with a war. With enough repetition a change in one area gives you an idea of what to expect in the other.
An example of where I am going is the comparing the market troubles is when Nixon stopped the gold standard in '71. When foreigners exchanged money for gold when the Viet Nam war was turning ugly, Mr. Nixon found he could no longer pay for the war in tangible assets. This was a major event drawn from widespread public disapproval. In '73 the oil embargo from Opec was a protest to the arms shipments given to Israel. The Yom Kippur war was based on military proliferations not about money. Here the military affected the markets which evoked the first significant blowback by the arabs. To me this is part of the military culture. Such a connection can work both ways.
I've felt by approaching military issues from the outside I would be better able to illustrate the influence such a large military can exert onto everyday life. This is why mentioned the silos and the booths. I've felt the mechanisms of support have become more invasive in recent years so when I saw climate of racism and sexism I widened the parameters to include civilian and monetary affairs and not focusing on a particular event like Fallujah, Baghdad etc. If this was confusing I apologize.
I rarely take an issue separately, for to do so rarely illuminates the relation between event A and event B. I cannot stress enough military culture is linked at the hip to the health of a nation and when one is threatened there are always responses with the other. No exceptions.
An example of where I am going is the comparing the market troubles is when Nixon stopped the gold standard in '71. When foreigners exchanged money for gold when the Viet Nam war was turning ugly, Mr. Nixon found he could no longer pay for the war in tangible assets. This was a major event drawn from widespread public disapproval. In '73 the oil embargo from Opec was a protest to the arms shipments given to Israel. The Yom Kippur war was based on military proliferations not about money. Here the military affected the markets which evoked the first significant blowback by the arabs. To me this is part of the military culture. Such a connection can work both ways.
I've felt by approaching military issues from the outside I would be better able to illustrate the influence such a large military can exert onto everyday life. This is why mentioned the silos and the booths. I've felt the mechanisms of support have become more invasive in recent years so when I saw climate of racism and sexism I widened the parameters to include civilian and monetary affairs and not focusing on a particular event like Fallujah, Baghdad etc. If this was confusing I apologize.
I rarely take an issue separately, for to do so rarely illuminates the relation between event A and event B. I cannot stress enough military culture is linked at the hip to the health of a nation and when one is threatened there are always responses with the other. No exceptions.
Ok... now that you have said all that. Other than citing the new warrior's ethos, and a few generals not liking Rumsfeld........ how exactly does all this that your talking about make the case that the US military is transforming into a bunch of brainwashed thugs? Silos, booths, oil embargo's, The Yom Kippur war, Nixon???
Personally I think Nixon stole all the gold and oil, hides in one of the silo's and only comes out to go into the booth to relieve himself.
Is there any standing army that is not prejuice?
The American army is no different
I have never served in any military and as such my views can be worthless
But speaking to and reading articles posted by current military personel I would have to conclude that indeed that brain washing is prevolent although it need not be permanent
It is completely normal for the armed services to brain wash there deciples as this is the way you get young people to go out and kill other humans with speed and without thinking the aftermath of which is another matter
of the veterans that have experienced wars especially the big wars Ie: ww1 and ww2
will attest to the night mares and the social conduct of veterans only subside long after the guns are silent
the brain washing is not permanent but the trauma may be permanent or long lasting
wether the army is brainwashed into believing one political side or the other is mute because the democrats and the republicans are one and the same they have the same agenda if not the same approach
the brain washing goes like this
play the stars and stripes (click) and march them into battle
it plays on their loyalty and then puts them into harms way
or a commander greets them before battle and arouses a response by saying something like the people back home are counting on you
this will do as well
mob mantality is well controlled by music and/or arousing words this is well documented
if a politcal party then uses this same technique to arouse the feelings later in life it may also arouse those feelings once more
such as the American Natl. anthem being played and the president making an arousing speech imediately afterwards
these things also conjure those that have been conditioned to once again feel the mesage that feeds on their soul
it is all well documented and all countries save a very few practice it (the brain washing)
it is part of their secret magic that no one outside their borders can understand
The American army is no different
I have never served in any military and as such my views can be worthless
But speaking to and reading articles posted by current military personel I would have to conclude that indeed that brain washing is prevolent although it need not be permanent
It is completely normal for the armed services to brain wash there deciples as this is the way you get young people to go out and kill other humans with speed and without thinking the aftermath of which is another matter
of the veterans that have experienced wars especially the big wars Ie: ww1 and ww2
will attest to the night mares and the social conduct of veterans only subside long after the guns are silent
the brain washing is not permanent but the trauma may be permanent or long lasting
wether the army is brainwashed into believing one political side or the other is mute because the democrats and the republicans are one and the same they have the same agenda if not the same approach
the brain washing goes like this
play the stars and stripes (click) and march them into battle
it plays on their loyalty and then puts them into harms way
or a commander greets them before battle and arouses a response by saying something like the people back home are counting on you
this will do as well
mob mantality is well controlled by music and/or arousing words this is well documented
if a politcal party then uses this same technique to arouse the feelings later in life it may also arouse those feelings once more
such as the American Natl. anthem being played and the president making an arousing speech imediately afterwards
these things also conjure those that have been conditioned to once again feel the mesage that feeds on their soul
it is all well documented and all countries save a very few practice it (the brain washing)
it is part of their secret magic that no one outside their borders can understand
QUOTE(Vampiel)
Ok... now that you have said all that. Other than citing the new warrior's ethos, and a few generals not liking Rumsfeld........ how exactly does all this that your talking about make the case that the US military is transforming into a bunch of brainwashed thugs? Silos, booths, oil embargo's, The Yom Kippur war, Nixon???
Vampiel, I’m not singling you out. There are reports which suggest the criteria for recruiting people have been lowered.
QUOTE(Vampiel)
Personally I think Nixon stole all the gold and oil, hides in one of the silo's and only comes out to go into the booth to relieve himself.
Your sarcasm is duly noted. I don’t think we are on the same page. If this is a new idea to you may I suggest delving into the writings on Man, Economy and State by Murray Rothbard as primer to understand the important book, Wall Street, Banks, and American Foreign Policy. John Perkins’ Confessions of an Economic Hitman wouldn’t be a bad a read either.Truly epic works depicting the correlations between business, the military, and politics.
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Vampiel, I’m not singling you out. There are reports which suggest the criteria for recruiting people have been lowered.
Im sure the recruitment standards have been lowered to acceptable levels b/c of the need of recruits, would you prefer a draft? Who care's if they recruit people with misdemeanors? It's not like they are recruiting hardcore criminals or "thugs" as you put it.
As far as the skinheads thats been an attraction for them for a long time, it didn't just happen the past 4 years. In fact the only way that the NYTimes knew this information is from Military investigators. Now they are printing an article about attempting to make it look like something and new and that skinheads are being purposely recruited in the thousands. Which is completely not true.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/07/washingt...snyt&emc=rs
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"They're communicating with each other about weapons, about recruiting, about keeping their identities secret, about organizing within the military,"
Sure there are problems but it's not some huge conspiracy. I've never heard of or seen an Army recuiter go to the local prison and try to get some recruits.
QUOTE
Your sarcasm is duly noted. I don’t think we are on the same page. If this is a new idea to you may I suggest delving into the writings on Man, Economy and State by Murray Rothbard as primer to understand the important book, Wall Street, Banks, and American Foreign Policy. John Perkins’ Confessions of an Economic Hitman wouldn’t be a bad a read either.Truly epic works depicting the correlations between business, the military, and politics.
Your not attempting to brainwash me are you? I mean the Army is obviously attempting to by making me learn the warrior ethos but you want me to read an entire book? A pharagraph can brainwash people... I wonder what a whole book would do.
QUOTE(Trouble @ Sep 20 2006, 12:20 AM)
There are enough people above Mr. Shinseki's position that they could have tabled his recommendations.
Who exactly? The Chief of Staff of any of the services is pretty much the last word on issues such as this. Embedding a 'Warrior Ethos' into Army training manuals does not require nor invite congressional oversight. I ask again, who would have the authority to table his recommendations? The Clinton Administration?
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I will emphasis one point, that problems faced by the military are very wide and systemic. Problems which have persisted to this day.
But you haven't addressed any of these problems, some of which do exist. Instead you have digressed off onto arguments about Nixon and gold.....which quite a few of us have found not exactly relevant to this discussion. You admittedly state that the questions posed for debate, as written, only constitute one-tenth of the argument, as you see it. But the problem is, some if us are not connecting the dots in your wide ranging posts.
QUOTE(rambler Today @ 03:46 PM )
the brain washing goes like this
play the stars and stripes (click) and march them into battle
it plays on their loyalty and then puts them into harms way
or a commander greets them before battle and arouses a response by saying something like the people back home are counting on you
this will do as well
mob mantality is well controlled by music and/or arousing words this is well documented
play the stars and stripes (click) and march them into battle
it plays on their loyalty and then puts them into harms way
or a commander greets them before battle and arouses a response by saying something like the people back home are counting on you
this will do as well
mob mantality is well controlled by music and/or arousing words this is well documented
Aside from recommending the spellcheck button, I would also recommend providing some sort of link or data to back up this argument.....especially when you state that it is well documented. Should we just take you at your word?
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