Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Plan B Approved For Over-the-Counter Use
America's Debate > Social Issues > Gender Issues > Women's Issues
Google
Victoria Silverwolf
Here's the story:

Link

QUOTE
Women may buy the morning-after pill without a prescription — but only with proof they’re 18 or older, federal health officials decided Thursday. The Food and Drug Administration ruling culminated a contentious three-year effort to ease access to the emergency contraceptive.

Girls 17 and younger still will need a doctor’s note to buy the pills, called Plan B, the FDA told manufacturer Barr Pharmaceuticals Inc.


This decision hasn't pleased everyone.

QUOTE
“While I am glad that the drumbeat for a return to a science-based FDA has had some positive impact, this decision still represents a compromise, one that could have the unintended consequence of hurting young women’s health,” said Dr. Susan Wood, who resigned as FDA’s women’s health chief to protest the agency’s 2005 delay.

But opponent Wendy Wright, president of Concerned Women for America, said Plan B’s wider availability could give women a false sense of security, since it isn’t as effective as regular birth control. Wright also worries that adult men who have sex with minor girls could force the pills upon them.

The FDA said men 18 and older will be able to buy the pills without a prescription.


To be debated:

Did the FDA make the right decision? If not, should Plan B be removed from the market, made available by prescription only, or should it be made available over-the-counter regardless of age?

Will the availability of Plan B lead to "a false sense of security," causing women to have unprotected sex? Will it result in a significant drop in the number of unwanted pregnancies? Will it lead to a drop in the number of abortions?


(Personally, I think the FDA took much too long to come to this decision, for reasons that are more political than scientific. I can live with the age restriction. I expect the availablity of Plan B to have many more benefits than drawbacks.)
Google
blingice
QUOTE(Victoria Silverwolf @ Aug 25 2006, 01:58 AM) *

To be debated:

Did the FDA make the right decision? If not, should Plan B be removed from the market, made available by prescription only, or should it be made available over-the-counter regardless of age?

Will the availability of Plan B lead to "a false sense of security," causing women to have unprotected sex? Will it result in a significant drop in the number of unwanted pregnancies? Will it lead to a drop in the number of abortions?



1. This question is predicated on a whole other moral foundation (namely, abortion debate, which I am in no mood to talk about at 2:30 AM). Plan B probably still needs a lot more research and information given to the public about how it is exactly different than an abortion (I'm sure such information is easily accessible, it's just that the liberal media doesn't shout it out unlike how they shouted out that Plan B was now available). Oh well.

2. This is the big issue with the Plan B pill. Sure, it may be convenient (and, if #1 is fine with everyone, even Republicans), there is the real world impact it causes. Here I'm forced to make a slippery slope argument:

A. The availiablity of Plan B pills gives people even more sexual freedom. For people with consistant partners and STD free relationships, this allows for more sex, and if the female just pops a Plan B pill in (if she wasn't taking birth control for some reason) escape from life-changing responsibility is just as easy as that. No consequences, birth is just something you have to flick a switch to have happen. For people who sleep around, they will be less worried about the pregnancies (not that it was a big deal to begin with in one-night stands) and getting rid of the previous night's inhibitions is similar to getting rid of an STD: take some penicillin, and you'll be fine.

B. This leads to a slide in morality. People will have no motivation to keep any of their inhibitions in check. Moral slide in one place leads to further moral slides: if I take one woman for granted, why not two? If I take them for granted in this way, why can't I take them for granted in other ways (physically, mentally, etc.). It leads to a society with consequence free existance for both men and women, and it's never, EVER good to not have consequences for something that, after it's done, will be harmful.
Mrs. Pigpen
I have mixed feelings about this one. This is a wonderful thing if women use this pill as it is intended to be used. ONLY in the event of an emergency...if a condom rips, date rape, ect. But, I don't believe that will be the case more than half of the time. Women will say, "It's okay, I'll take the day-after-pill tomorrow" or men will say, "You can take the day after pill tomorrow". Unfortunately, these pills ARE NOT reliable enough to use as a method of steady birth control. Furthermore, there are deleterious consequences on a woman's health if taken too frequently.

Overall, I think the decision was wrong. Not because I believe this pill should not be available over the counter, but because the regular pill requires a prescription whereas this one does not. Women will likely forego the doctor to take this stronger and more dangerous method. If plan B can be over the counter, the pill needs to be also. As it is, this will INCREASE the abortion rate, as women will rely on the less reliable pill rather than other methods, not decrease it.
entspeak
Did the FDA make the right decision? If not, should Plan B be removed from the market, made available by prescription only, or should it be made available over-the-counter regardless of age?

Yes, I think it was the right decision. I think the age restriction is fine.

Will the availability of Plan B lead to "a false sense of security," causing women to have unprotected sex? Will it result in a significant drop in the number of unwanted pregnancies? Will it lead to a drop in the number of abortions?

Anyone who says that people will start popping these as birth control knows nothing about the effect of this drug. Having known someone who has used it, I know it is not a pleasant experience. I highly doubt that people will choose Plan B as a way to have unprotected sex. After the first time actually taking it, a person with that idea in mind will quickly change their mind.

QUOTE
This leads to a slide in morality. People will have no motivation to keep any of their inhibitions in check. Moral slide in one place leads to further moral slides: if I take one woman for granted, why not two? If I take them for granted in this way, why can't I take them for granted in other ways (physically, mentally, etc.). It leads to a society with consequence free existance for both men and women, and it's never, EVER good to not have consequences for something that, after it's done, will be harmful.


"Cats and dogs – living together! Mass Hysteria!!!" thumbsup.gif

Yes, it's true. If the government doesn't keep us in check, we will descend into a pit of licentiousness and de-evolve into amoral amoebic entities incapable of preventing their slippery slide into the deep dank of sexual destruction. Thank god for our parents, the government. Long Live the King! wacko.gif And let's not forget the top of that slippery slope... O' 'damn that apple.
Mrs. Pigpen
QUOTE(entspeak @ Aug 25 2006, 08:22 AM) *

Will the availability of Plan B lead to "a false sense of security," causing women to have unprotected sex? Will it result in a significant drop in the number of unwanted pregnancies? Will it lead to a drop in the number of abortions?

Anyone who says that people will start popping these as birth control knows nothing about the effect of this drug.


Really? I myself taken this method twice before, yet I disagree. That sort of throws a wrench into your argument.
entspeak
QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Aug 25 2006, 06:26 AM) *

QUOTE(entspeak @ Aug 25 2006, 08:22 AM) *

Will the availability of Plan B lead to "a false sense of security," causing women to have unprotected sex? Will it result in a significant drop in the number of unwanted pregnancies? Will it lead to a drop in the number of abortions?

Anyone who says that people will start popping these as birth control knows nothing about the effect of this drug.


Really? I myself taken this method twice before, yet I disagree. That sort of throws a wrench into your argument.


Really? And you felt no discomfort from taking it? Was it something, that after the experience, you think someone would choose to take casually? As opposed to using a condom? I mean, condoms are just as available as this drug and less expensive.

At about $20 a pop – though the over-the-counter price may be lower, people will not be rushing out to use this as birth control. Even at a lower price, I can't imagine this to be the most cost-efficient birth control method or the feel-good option.

I mean, for $12 or so, you can get a 36 pack of condoms. And, unless you're allergic, they have no side effects. Sure, you have to get a prescription for birth control pills, but even they are much, much less expensive than Plan B.

I really think that, considering the side effects and the cost, a person who does this once will say, "screw this" and choose something else for birth control... or, if they were the type of person who wouldn't use birth control at all anyway, they will get pregnant – as they would've anyway.
Mrs. Pigpen
QUOTE(entspeak @ Aug 25 2006, 08:40 AM) *

Really? And you felt no discomfort from taking it? Was it something you would choose to take regularly?


I had very little discomfort, actually. Furthermore, I took the morning-after-pills over ten years ago when the effects were worse. The new pill is designed for reduced nausea. Would I CHOOSE to take it regularly? No. I'm a woman in my mid-thirties and read my post above. I do think that many women might make different choices. During my college days? I think I might have "rolled the dice" occasionally if I had believed it to be a highly effective method on par with the pill.

I don't think women are educated enough, personally. How many women know when they are ovulating? Probably one out of every 1000. How many people know that cervical cancer comes from a virus contracted during sex? Very few. So, yes, I think making this method easily available will more likely lead to an increase in unplanned pregnancies rather than the opposite.

Edited to add: Reading the price above, it might actually be cost-prohibitive. Time will tell....

*edited to remove language that could be construed as a highly inappropriate pun. Good grief! What was I thinking? ohmy.gif
thetrick
Once again I think that this is a situation where people get confused between what they personally feel about a controversial decision, and what the government has a right and responsibility to regulate.

First it must be said that while the FDA might not act like a scientific regulatory administration that is in fact what they are. They are not in the potion to dispense morality.

I believe the prevention of unwanted pregnancies out weighs all the moral consequences that Plan B might bring. There are few things more damaging to the mental health of a young woman than having a unwanted child before she even gets started in life. This is defiantly not a solution to this problem, but maybe it could help break the cycle for a few families.

Oh and at about $30 a pop over the counter I doubt it will replace anyone’s birth control.
Mrs. Pigpen
QUOTE(thetrick @ Aug 25 2006, 08:51 AM) *

Once again I think that this is a situation where people get confused between what they personally feel about a controversial decision, and what the government has a right and responsibility to regulate.

First it must be said that while the FDA might not act like a scientific regulatory administration that is in fact what they are. They are not in the potion to dispense morality.


Then why isn't the birth control pill available over the counter?

QUOTE
I believe the prevention of unwanted pregnancies out weighs all the moral consequences that Plan B might bring. There are few things more damaging to the mental health of a young woman than having a unwanted child before she even gets started in life. This is defiantly not a solution to this problem, but maybe it could help break the cycle for a few families.

Read your first sentence again. Isn't that exactly what you are doing here? In this case, what you feel personally leads you to believe that this will prevent unwanted pregnancies. I've heard this argument again and again, and I'm telling you honestly it might just as easily lead to them.
thetrick
QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Aug 25 2006, 08:58 AM) *

QUOTE(thetrick @ Aug 25 2006, 08:51 AM) *
I believe the prevention of unwanted pregnancies out weighs all the moral consequences that Plan B might bring. There are few things more damaging to the mental health of a young woman than having a unwanted child before she even gets started in life. This is defiantly not a solution to this problem, but maybe it could help break the cycle for a few families.

Read your first sentence again. Isn't that exactly what you are doing here? In this case, what you feel personally leads you to believe that this will prevent unwanted pregnancies. I've heard this argument again and again, and I'm telling you honestly it might just as easily lead to them.


I ment to wite that first sentence as "I believe the prevention of unwanted pregnancies out weighs all the other moral consequences that Plan B might bring." More clear?

Plan B has many moral implications and that can not be avoided, but thats not (or should not be) the realm of the FDA.

Just cuious, but how might this cause more pregnancies? This drug has been avaible in other countries for many years and as far as I have heard it has not had that effect.

Google
Amlord
QUOTE(Victoria Silverwolf @ Aug 25 2006, 02:58 AM) *

(Personally, I think the FDA took much too long to come to this decision, for reasons that are more political than scientific. I can live with the age restriction. I expect the availablity of Plan B to have many more benefits than drawbacks.)


I kind of shocks me to hear a pharmacist take this angle. More harm than good is not the standard for moving from Rx to OTC status.



Did the FDA make the right decision? If not, should Plan B be removed from the market, made available by prescription only, or should it be made available over-the-counter regardless of age?


To me this seems to be within the traditional realm of prescription medicines. It is a hormone treatment, not intended for adolescents but will certainly be used by adolescents without a prescription. When evaluating a drug for OTC use, the FDA takes into consideration unintentional use or abuse.

Levonorgestrel, the drug in Plan B, has many drug interactions which either reduce its effectiveness, or can cause many complications, including significantly increased risk of heart attack. In fact, the incidents of heart attack are greater for Levonorgestrel users than it is for smokers who do not use Levonorgestrel. The combination of the two leads to a very significantly increased risk of heart attack. Warnings These risk increase significantly with age.

Another real danger is that of ectopic pregnancy. Up to 10% of pregnancies that do result after using Plan B are ectopic. Remember, this pill reduces the chance of pregnancy from 8% to about 2%. Plan B PRESCRIBING INFORMATION

The thing which puzzles me is that regular birth control still requires a prescription, but emergency contraceptive does not. They are essentially the same drug, although EC has twice the dosage of the prescription BC pill. That is puzzling to me. If EC is "safe and effective" than you would think regular birth control should also go OTC.

Will the availability of Plan B lead to "a false sense of security," causing women to have unprotected sex? Will it result in a significant drop in the number of unwanted pregnancies? Will it lead to a drop in the number of abortions?

Yes it will lead to more unprotected sex. Some studies debate this. I believe it will also lead to riskier sex as women will believe they will not get pregnant.

No, it will not lead to less unwanted pregnancy. The "statistics" say that half of all pregnancies are unintended which means the definition is skewed. Unintended does not mean unwanted.

For the record, I am not against birth control and not against the morning after pill such as Plan B.
aevans176
QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Aug 25 2006, 07:48 AM) *

I had very little discomfort, actually. Furthermore, I took the morning-after-pills over ten years ago when the effects were worse. The new pill is designed for reduced nausea. Would I CHOOSE to take it regularly? No. I'm a woman in my mid-thirties and read my post above. I do think that many women might make different choices. During my college days? I think I might have "rolled the dice" occasionally if I had believed it to be a highly effective method on par with the pill.

I don't think women are educated enough, personally. How many women know when they are ovulating? Probably one out of every 1000. How many people know that cervical cancer comes from a virus contracted during sex? Very few. So, yes, I think making this method easily available will more likely lead to an increase in unplanned pregnancies rather than the opposite.

Edited to add: Reading the price above, it might actually be cost-prohibitive. Time will tell....

This is an interesting debate....and I suppose that I'm glad that it hasn't turned ugly (yet!).

I think you're right about most folks and "rolling the dice" in reference to this puppy. My main concern (aside from my completely ANTI-ABORTION stance) is that some "less responsible" women might use this pill when they might be put off by the notion of an invasive abortion. This pill, if purchased with anonymity, allows a woman to have little recourse to not using protection. (well, theoretically allows a couple to do so...)

Frankly, your mention of HPV is pertinent. I don't remember the numbers specifically, but it's like 1 in 3 or 4 people is at least a carrier within a certain age group. Many people are averse to condoms due to the "experience", and being married... I can empathize... but frankly, this pill may be a way "out". Birth control has side effects, requires blood work, and often women don't care for it (not to mention it has to be taken dilligently).

So.. what does this pill do? It allows a woman to not have to take birth control, not have to use condoms, and play her odds with at least some sense of security. And you're absolutely right about college aged women... $20 isn't that big of a deal, and I can only imagine how this is gonna be used...
christopher
"The life of the flesh is in the blood" (Leviticus 17:11). and the blood aint there for a few days.
Did the FDA make the right decision? If not, should Plan B be removed from the market, made available by prescription only, or should it be made available over-the-counter regardless of age?
Will the availability of Plan B lead to "a false sense of security," causing women to have unprotected sex? Will it result in a significant drop in the number of unwanted pregnancies? Will it lead to a drop in the number of abortions?


They made the right choice here. I would keep an age restriction. As for false sense of security: they do it all the time anyways. I can remember the question "do you have anything" so clearly because I was asked it so rarely.
I agree with Mrs P on lack of education, but I would also argue that for many women it is also something related to self image. I have seen many times where women were fairly easy because they believed it was the only way to either be desired/loved or even worse believed it was all they had to offer. They would put out so early not because of any real desire to but to keep the guys attention or get that attention. "It will make them love me".
This makes them targets of the type of abusers who feed off that stuff and then leave them behind.

It should lead to fewer abortions--but only time will tell if it is effective and is being used properly.
bucket
Did the FDA make the right decision? If not, should Plan B be removed from the market, made available by prescription only, or should it be made available over-the-counter regardless of age?


Yes, finally after much political pressure which is alarming. I think the age requirement is more restrictive than what I would have hoped for but I think it was expected. I don't think a 16 yr old would need a parent's permission in order to obtain a prescription as medical history, and consultation are confident, but maybe I am wrong. I am sure clinics can help provide better access to young women and financially burdened individuals as they already do for the birth control pill.


Will the availability of Plan B lead to "a false sense of security," causing women to have unprotected sex? Will it result in a significant drop in the number of unwanted pregnancies? Will it lead to a drop in the number of abortions?


Oh yeah the slut argument, pregnancy is not the only thing women have to concern themselves with when it comes to unprotected sex. So no I doubt it will change the sexual behavior of women. I do however feel it will change the options, obviously!, that women are now afforded when they have a failed application of plan A. Get it, Plan B follows after plan A.

I think a lot of people are misrepresenting how this pill will likely be used, probably most often by someone who is already concerned with birth control, already taking proactive steps to ensure they do not become pregnant and aware and concerned enough of their sexual encounters and the methods of birth control used during sex to know if their original plan failed.

I doubt this will effect the pregnancy rates of women who take little or no accountability of their family planning to begin with, and I doubt this will effect the pregnancy rates of girls who are too immature to be having sex to begin with and often absolve themselves of any responsibility or maturity towards birth control.

I think often women have to be or are asked to all be responsible, account for and justify every woman's behavior. I think that is unfair, as many of us are intelligent enough, aware enough and concerned with practicing our reproductive rights rationally. Just because one woman is not concerned with her responsibility to herself and any future child does not mean each and every other woman is liable for her negligence. There is not some big shared uterus of the universe, we each independently act individually.


QUOTE(AMlord)
The thing which puzzles me is that regular birth control still requires a prescription, but emergency contraceptive does not. They are essentially the same drug, although EC has twice the dosage of the prescription BC pill. That is puzzling to me. If EC is "safe and effective" than you would think regular birth control should also go OTC.

AMlord what is your argument here exactly? That the FDA did not do it's job after +3 YEARS to properly evaluate and assess this drug's safety? That the FDA is wrong that this drug is best effective and safe over-the-counter?

QUOTE(AMlord)
Yes it will lead to more unprotected sex. Some studies debate this. I believe it will also lead to riskier sex as women will believe they will not get pregnant.


Right because we all know women are just dying to be more promiscuous, it is only this pregnancy burden of ours that helps keep our behavior in line. You see when you make arguments like this you assert the belief that women only act sexually when they feel they have no "risk" of making babies. Forget psychological issues, STD, AIDS, pleasure, love, desire, physical needs, enjoyment... it is only the thought, preoccupation and threat of pregnancy that contains, forms and dictates women's sexual behavior. Is that how simple we females are? Is that all that forms our sexual identity and behavior...our baby making bits?
Mrs. Pigpen
QUOTE(thetrick @ Aug 25 2006, 09:29 AM) *

Just cuious, but how might this cause more pregnancies? This drug has been avaible in other countries for many years and as far as I have heard it has not had that effect.


This drug has been available in THIS country for years and hasn't had that effect. Because it has required a prescription. This is NOT the abortion drug, it is a hormone pill, intended for emergency contraception in the event of something like a condom ripping.

Consider this....the ingredients in this pill are precisely the same as the regular birth control pill, but in larger and more potentially harmful doses. If this can be obtained over the counter, but the pill cannot, I don't think it's a stretch to believe that women will be more likely to take it than they might otherwise. Frankly, I think it's a foregone conclusion. The pill requires a prescription, plan B won't. BUT, the pill, when properly used, is 99 percent effective. This pill is only about 85 percent effective the day after, 60 percent the third day...do you see where I am going with this?

If this is available over the counter, the pill should be to. If the pill isn't available, I don't think this should be either.
Amlord
QUOTE(bucket @ Aug 25 2006, 11:13 AM) *

Oh yeah the slut argument, pregnancy is not the only thing women have to concern themselves with when it comes to unprotected sex. So no I doubt it will change the sexual behavior of women. I do however feel it will change the options, obviously!, that women are now afforded when they have a failed application of plan A. Get it, Plan B follows after plan A.


Except there's no way to know that Plan A has failed since you need to follow up with Plan B within 3 days. Most times a woman doesn't know plan A has failed until after they've missed their period and taken a pregnancy test.

QUOTE

I think a lot of people are misrepresenting how this pill will likely be used, probably most often by someone who is already concerned with birth control, already taking proactive steps to ensure they do not become pregnant and aware and concerned enough of their sexual encounters and the methods of birth control used during sex to know if their original plan failed.


I think you are giving more credit to woman and to the effectiveness of this pill than is warranted. This will absolutely be used as a birth control measure and not as a Plan B, but as Plan A.

Condoms, while utilitarian, have serious drawbacks. Men don't like to use them and often try to convince women not to. This is one more arrow in the quiver of reasons not to and it will definitely convince some women because they no longer have a doctor to tell them that this isn't 100%.


QUOTE(bucket @ Aug 25 2006, 11:13 AM) *

QUOTE(AMlord)
The thing which puzzles me is that regular birth control still requires a prescription, but emergency contraceptive does not. They are essentially the same drug, although EC has twice the dosage of the prescription BC pill. That is puzzling to me. If EC is "safe and effective" than you would think regular birth control should also go OTC.

AMlord what is your argument here exactly? That the FDA did not do it's job after +3 YEARS to properly evaluate and assess this drug's safety? That the FDA is wrong that this drug is best effective and safe over-the-counter?


My argument is that if a 200% dose of birth control is safe and is now OTC, why not half the dose? Certainly regular birth control has a track record that warrants OTC status if this use of the same drug does.

QUOTE(bucket @ Aug 25 2006, 11:13 AM) *

QUOTE(AMlord)
Yes it will lead to more unprotected sex. Some studies debate this. I believe it will also lead to riskier sex as women will believe they will not get pregnant.


Right because we all know women are just dying to be more promiscuous, it is only this pregnancy burden of ours that helps keep our behavior in line. You see when you make arguments like this you assert the belief that women only act sexually when they feel they have no "risk" of making babies. Forget psychological issues, STD, AIDS, pleasure, love, desire, physical needs, enjoyment... it is only the thought, preoccupation and threat of pregnancy that contains, forms and dictates women's sexual behavior. Is that how simple we females are? Is that all that forms our sexual identity and behavior...our baby making bits?

Bucket, I feel your anger at my male opinion. But reality is different than what you present it to be. Unwanted pregnancies occur mainly in young people who are irresponsible. This will add to their irresponsibility.

And yes, I do believe that the risk of pregnancy is the biggest deterrent to unprotected sex, even greater than STD and AIDS. The other factors you cite are actually prone to increase unprotected sex (needs, enjoyment, pleasure, love, trust).
gordo

Just because a person gets pregnant does not automatically lead to them becoming some person with behavior accepted by a certain group, or simply put if a prostitute becomes pregnant does not automatically transform that person into someone that will lead a better lifestyle or even really give any concern to the fact they have become pregnant, they could simply get an abortion, either legally or illegally, put the child out for adoption or simply raise the child in some poor environment of neglect. SO I will not simply accept that forcing people to be pregnant and have the child will somehow elevate our nation morally to some glowing era of existence.

The other option is that its wrong to negate the idea of sexuality being a reproductive process, which I will agree with, but I wont by into some subjective argument of morality being the main figure of law generation, or ever will. People that claim high morality do things of very low morality, or such morality leads to such actions, like flying planes into a building to kill infidels or burning people alive at the stake.

Now if something factual could be generated such as the positive effects of brainwashing and conditioning to get wanted behavior then maybe I will listen up us.gif

SO to me its some complex issue not understood, with various cultural strains forced into competition leading to whatever, who cares. I think this is not a solid or bad option, for the most part with abortion being legal I do not see some severe drop in child birth rates in America, but for anyone that’s had a condom break somewhere at the summit or peak of the mountain maybe its a viable option, but of course I will give in the idea that some people will abuse it to simply live a life as free as possible to pursue nothing but happiness, but hey Americans are free to pursue life, liberty and happiness right.


entspeak
QUOTE(Amlord @ Aug 25 2006, 10:05 AM) *

Except there's no way to know that Plan A has failed since you need to follow up with Plan B within 3 days. Most times a woman doesn't know plan A has failed until after they've missed their period and taken a pregnancy test.


Again, that depends on what Plan A was. If Plan A was to have unprotected sex, I don't think that's really what is meant by Plan A in context of there being a Plan B. Plan B is really meant for situations that you can know – for instance, a condom breaks or in other more tragic situations such as rape. A condom break was how I was introduced to the drug. I paid the $50 for it (the cost for the prescription 9 years ago)... which was the least I could do, since I was an equal partner in the failure of Plan A and since I wasn't going to have to go through the experience of taking it.

If a person is on birth control pills, I think it's pretty obvious that they won't be using Plan B. How would they know?

Likewise, if a person is having casual unprotected sex all the time, how will they know? They aren't concerned with it.

QUOTE
I think you are giving more credit to woman and to the effectiveness of this pill than is warranted. This will absolutely be used as a birth control measure and not as a Plan B, but as Plan A.

Condoms, while utilitarian, have serious drawbacks. Men don't like to use them and often try to convince women not to. This is one more arrow in the quiver of reasons not to and it will definitely convince some women because they no longer have a doctor to tell them that this isn't 100%.


Cost and side effects. This is what will prevent this from being used as a birth control measure.
And let's remember, over the counter does not necessarily mean hanging next to the condoms in the grocery store.

QUOTE
My argument is that if a 200% dose of birth control is safe and is now OTC, why not half the dose? Certainly regular birth control has a track record that warrants OTC status if this use of the same drug does.


I am inclined to agree with you, Amlord. If this is going to be OTC, why not make birth control pills OTC?

QUOTE
Bucket, I feel your anger at my male opinion. But reality is different than what you present it to be. Unwanted pregnancies occur mainly in young people who are irresponsible. This will add to their irresponsibility.


Cost and side effects. Yes, someone will try to do it. But it is highly impractical to use this as a means of birth control. Irresponsibility will tend to lean toward what is easiest, in my opinion. An irresponsible youth will choose this plan once. After dealing with the cost and side effects, they will seek another option.

thetrick
QUOTE(Mrs. Pigpen @ Aug 25 2006, 11:18 AM) *

do you see where I am going with this?



Now I do and for the most part agree in your reasoning, but I still feel that the steep price ($30 each time) will limit the effect of people switching to it from regular birth control. And correct me if I am wrong but don't many women start to take birth control to better regulate their period, and reduce the cramping. Many teenage girls often start taking birth control for this reason. Plan B is for nothing but contraception.
Cube Jockey
I'm curious where the $20 a pop thing came from, I don't see it as a link or in the original article. The reason I ask is because my wife and I just used it less than a month ago - because of the common reason people will use this: a condom broke, we were between insurance coverage and it was $50 some-odd dollars + you had to sit there for a consultation with the pharmacist (which may have cost additional money, can't remember - may have been $80 something all together). It didn't cause any nausea but the pharmacist explained it affects different women differently.

In any case I don't remember it being "cheap" and it might be less if we had insurance at the time but it is important to note that something on the order of 45 million americans don't.

So that pretty much throws this out the window as an alternate form of birth control as some are suggesting. If you are interested in practicing birth control and having sex you'll use the pill and/or condoms. People aren't going to all of a sudden start having unprotected sex and saying... psssht... I can just go drop $50 tomorrow for Plan B. It will continue to be used as backup when things like a condom malfunction happen. To suggest otherwise just gets into crazy and warped logical leaps.
aevans176
QUOTE(Cube Jockey @ Aug 25 2006, 03:31 PM) *

I'm curious where the $20 a pop thing came from, I don't see it as a link or in the original article. The reason I ask is because my wife and I just used it less than a month ago - because of the common reason people will use this: a condom broke, we were between insurance coverage and it was $50 some-odd dollars + you had to sit there for a consultation with the pharmacist (which may have cost additional money, can't remember - may have been $80 something all together). It didn't cause any nausea but the pharmacist explained it affects different women differently.

In any case I don't remember it being "cheap" and it might be less if we had insurance at the time but it is important to note that something on the order of 45 million americans don't.

So that pretty much throws this out the window as an alternate form of birth control as some are suggesting. If you are interested in practicing birth control and having sex you'll use the pill and/or condoms. People aren't going to all of a sudden start having unprotected sex and saying... psssht... I can just go drop $50 tomorrow for Plan B. It will continue to be used as backup when things like a condom malfunction happen. To suggest otherwise just gets into crazy and warped logical leaps.


I really don't know all that much about this...but here's a link:
http://www.go2planb.com/section/health_pro...rces/index.html

It basically says that wholesale cost is $18.89/unit. I'd imagine that for something of this nature, that a $40-50 price point in stores wouldn't be out of line. I'm just guessing though...


entspeak
Interesting to note that Plan B is marketed entirely as contraception. Is this entirely true?

from aevans link:
QUOTE

In addition, it may inhibit implantation by altering the endometrium.


Does it still do this after conception?
Victoria Silverwolf
QUOTE(entspeak @ Aug 25 2006, 07:55 PM) *

Interesting to note that Plan B is marketed entirely as contraception. Is this entirely true?

from aevans link:
QUOTE

In addition, it may inhibit implantation by altering the endometrium.


Does it still do this after conception?


Let's be absolutely clear about the way that Plan B works. Go to my original link, and take a look at the diagram. There are three ways in which Plan B can act.

QUOTE
Fetilization may be prevented in the fallopian tube

May block a fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus

Mucus around the cervix may become thicker and trap sperm from traveling to the fallopian tube


Of these three mechanisms, the only one which could possibly be of any ethical concern, as far as I can tell, is the second one. If you believe that preventing a fertilized egg from being implanted in the uterus is morally equivalent to ending the life of a human being, then you must object to Plan B. I do not accept this permise, so I have no moral objection to its use.

The question has been raised, quite reasonably, as to why Plan B should be over-the-counter while birth control pills remain available by prescription only. It seems to me that there are at least two good reasons.

1. Plan B is intended to be used once per incident, while birth control pills are intended to be used for an extended period of time. Although there is certainly some health risk from the use of Plan B, the patient will not continue to expose herself to the risk for months or years, the way she would with oral contraceptives. (If someone is using Plan B all the time, we have a problem in education which needs to be addressed.)

2. Plan B is intended to be used as soon as possible after unprotected intercourse. The need to obtain a prescription will delay its use, making it less effective.

I certainly believe that Plan B should only be available from a health professional, with mandatory counseling. There should also be extensive education to the general population that Plan B is not intended to be used as a primary means of birth control.

Will some people use Plan B inappropriately? Of course. This does not mean that it cannot be used properly by the majority of patients.

From what little information I can find, it seems to me that Plan B will have very little effect either way on the rate of unsafe sex, or on the rate of unwanted pregnancies and abortion. It is certainly not a cure for all of the problems in society, but it can be of great benefit to individual women.
Bikerdad
Did the FDA make the right decision? If not, should Plan B be removed from the market, made available by prescription only, or should it be made available over-the-counter regardless of age?
Wrong decision. It should be made available by prescription only, prescription available only with a sworn rape complaint. Age, in general, is immaterial.

Will the availability of Plan B lead to "a false sense of security,"
Yes, it will, because it will be perceived as reducing the pregnancy risk of unprotected sex. While the sense of security in regards to the pregnancy risk is actually not terribly false (unless the woman in question is woefully misinformed), the false sense of security that young women already have regarding the emotional risks of sex will be moderately increased, as many of the emotional risks are wrongly linked with the risk of pregnancy.

causing women to have unprotected sex?
It will not "cause women" to have unprotected sex, although it will certainly remove the inhibitions of some women, resulting in them making a choice they would have otherwise not made.

Will it result in a significant drop in the number of unwanted pregnancies?Possible, but not likely. A very modest drop is more likely.

Will it lead to a drop in the number of abortions?
Experience in other countries were it has been available for years OTC indicates "most certainly not."

In addition to carrying a three pack of condoms in his glove box, the well equipped college "stud" will now lay in a supply of Plan B, one more tool in his arsenal of seduction.

entspeak
QUOTE(Victoria Silverwolf @ Aug 25 2006, 09:18 PM) *

Of these three mechanisms, the only one which could possibly be of any ethical concern, as far as I can tell, is the second one. If you believe that preventing a fertilized egg from being implanted in the uterus is morally equivalent to ending the life of a human being, than (sic) you must object to Plan B. I do not accept this permise, so I have no moral objection to its use.


I agree and also have no moral objection, but isn't Plan B in that instance being used as an abortificant. Is it disingenous for the company to emphatically state that Plan B is not an abortificant when, in fact, in that second instance it appears to be acting as one?

QUOTE
The question has been raised, quite reasonably, as to why Plan B should be over-the-counter while birth control pills remain available by prescription only. It seems to me that there are at least two good reasons.

1. Plan B is intended to be used once per incident, while birth control pills are intended to be used for an extended period of time. Although there is certainly some health risk from the use of Plan B, the patient will not continue to expose herself to the risk for months or years, the way she would with oral contraceptives. (If someone is using Plan B all the time, we have a problem in education which needs to be addressed.)

2. Plan B is intended to be used as soon as possible after unprotected intercourse. The need to obtain a prescription will delay its use, making it less effective.


I had a conversation with my girlfriend about this last night. She said the same thing. I agree.
Victoria Silverwolf
An interesting question is raised by entspeak. (And thanks for pointing out my spelling error, which I have corrected.) Does Plan B partially act by directly causing abortions? The answer to this question depends on your definition of abortion. If it means "the ending of a pregnancy," then we have to ask what the definition of "pregnancy" is. Here is one answer.

Link

QUOTE
In medicine, pregnancy is defined as beginning when the developing embryo becomes implanted into the endometrial lining of a woman's uterus.


By this definition, pregnancy does not occur until implantation. If we accept this, then it seems clear that Plan B works only by preventing pregnancy, although it may not always prevent fertilization. Others would argue that pregnancy begins with fertilization, and that Plan B is a potential abortifacient.

Link

QUOTE
The longstanding consensus among scientists that emergency contraception could prevent implantation in the uterus, causing the death of an early-stage human embryo, led many pro-lifers, who widely believe that pregnancy beings at conception, to oppose EC as an abortifacient.

In recent years, however, especially in light of U.S. controversy over this possibility, the scientific community has begun to critically reevaluate the claim, introducing a strong element of doubt into the argument that EC causes an early abortion. Recent studies in rats, monkeys, and small sample groups of humans have indicated that the first two mechanisms (preventing ovulation and fertilization, respectively) fully account for all successful uses of emergency contraception. However, both sides concede that completely proving or disproving the theory may be impossible.

The Food and Drug Administration recently stopped its practice of referring to all three mechanisms in its publications on emergency contraception. However, the approved box design for Plan B, an emergency contraceptive approved for over-the-counter sale in the United States, will still carry a notification that it may prevent implanation.


To some extent, this is just playing with words. There does not seem to be a vast ethical difference between a fertilized ovum just before implantation, and a fertilized ovum just after implantation.

Vermillion
QUOTE(Amlord @ Aug 25 2006, 05:05 PM) *

Except there's no way to know that Plan A has failed since you need to follow up with Plan B within 3 days. Most times a woman doesn't know plan A has failed until after they've missed their period and taken a pregnancy test.


Well, no actually. I have had a lot of girlfriends in my day, and eventually everyone deals with a broken condom, or another situation when something like 'Plan B' would be useful. I have had girlfriends take a 'morning after pill' twice that I know of... It happens. It happens among responsible people. Period.

QUOTE

I think you are giving more credit to woman and to the effectiveness of this pill than is warranted. This will absolutely be used as a birth control measure and not as a Plan B, but as Plan A.


It will absolutely will it? You know absolutely that it will? Because in most of the rest of the modern world, where it is legal, it is generally not used this way. Keep in mind that the morning after pill, even in its new 'fewer side effect' forms, is not super pleasant. It essentially causes you to have an unsheduled, very heavy period. Given the plethora of birthcontrol options available out there that do not have such side effects, it is baffling to assume that this would somehow become the preferred method of choice.

I am even further skeptical of this argument because it is the same argument the religious right has trotted out EVERY time a new birth control method becomes available in the last few decades: "Oh, if this becomes legal it will make all women cave in to their secret hidden desire to become promiscuous sluts."

This argument is not only insulting and illogical, but also irrelevant. There are SO MANY birth control options available right now: condoms, the pill, diaphram, spermacide, IUD, Norplant, female condom, even surgury. If women want to have premarital sex (or marital sex where they don't want to get pregnant) they will, period end of story. So WHAT if this gives them another option? It also gives them a way to avoid unwanted pregnancy and potentially crippling two lives.


QUOTE(AMlord)

My argument is that if a 200% dose of birth control is safe and is now OTC, why not half the dose? Certainly regular birth control has a track record that warrants OTC status if this use of the same drug does.


Come on Amlord, I know you are smarter than that. There are no serious side effects of taking a one-off double dose of birth control. That is not to say there are no side effects at all, but they fall within the realm of what is reasonable for over the counter pills. I notice you did not answer buckets question: do you presume that the FDA is lying to the american people when they state the above fact?

But even your question does not make any sense. "If a double dose is safe, why isn't a single dose safe?" Because birth control isn't a single dose, it is a 25 times dose, taken every day, month in month out, sometimes for years. Such a consistent chemical control of the body's processes can have long term side effects, and requires a perscription. For example, it is well documented and proven that long term use of BCP can lead to complications for people suffering from clinical depression. Long term use can also seriously affect women with diabeties or gallstones , and can lead to increases in blood clots, as well as half a dozen other issues, ALL of which arise from constant day to day use of BCP over a period of months, and NONE of which arise from a one-off 2-day equivalent dose of a morning after pill.

This is common sense 101 here Amlord.

QUOTE(bucket @ Aug 25 2006, 11:13 AM) *

Bucket, I feel your anger at my male opinion. But reality is different than what you present it to be. Unwanted pregnancies occur mainly in young people who are irresponsible. This will add to their irresponsibility.


The first part of your sentence is true, a majority of unwanted pregnancies do occur among the young, but the reason is not so simple as 'they are irresoponsible'. In some cases it is. In others it is because they have not been educated about contraception and/or have no access to it.

The last part of your assertion, that yet ANOTHER form of birth control will lead to MORE and riskier sex is simply a wild assertion.


Why has most of the rest of the first world not had a problem with the morning after pill? Why has Canada, which has had non-perscription access to Plan B for three years, not been swamped by a wave of those immoral stupid teens getting pregnant? Why is it that the states with the highest rate of teen prgnancy are the ones with the more restrictive, conservative laws regarding the whole issue, which those states with the more liberal laws have the lowest rates?


This constant assertion that birth control causes pregnancy has been debunked a dozen times over. Women have a plethora of legal options when it comes to birth control, isn't the argument that yet ANOTHER option will be the one that pushes them all into promiscuity just a bit insane?


The FDA declared 'Plan B' to be safe. That is their job, to declare drugs safe or unsafe. Unless you can point to an error or deliberate falsification in their multi-year studies, then there is no debate on that issue.
bucket
QUOTE(AMlord)
Except there's no way to know that Plan A has failed since you need to follow up with Plan B within 3 days. Most times a woman doesn't know plan A has failed until after they've missed their period and taken a pregnancy test.


I think entspeak already addressed this argument but I will add to it just to make my angry female perspective known.
Sometimes us girls forget to take our pill, forget to have our prescription filled, use a faulty condom, get raped, make a poor decision, discover our partner lied to us and all the many other possibilities that occur in the realm of human behavior. Definitely, Definitely definitely no logic to human behavior.

There are absolutely many times or opportunities for a woman to have full knowledge that plan A failed, for you to feel her opportunities should then be limited because other woman are not as responsible is unfair. It is not fair that you make this argument based on the claim that every woman who could need, benefit or use this drug is a irresponsible whore.

QUOTE(AMlord)

I think you are giving more credit to woman and to the effectiveness of this pill than is warranted. This will absolutely be used as a birth control measure and not as a Plan B, but as Plan A.


Am I giving women too much credit or are you giving them too little? And it is a birth control measure, why do you find it being used to prevent unwanted pregnancies alarming? That is it's purpose.

QUOTE(AMlord)
Condoms, while utilitarian, have serious drawbacks. Men don't like to use them and often try to convince women not to. This is one more arrow in the quiver of reasons not to and it will definitely convince some women because they no longer have a doctor to tell them that this isn't 100%.

So if a woman engages in sex with the original plan A of using a condom, then finds herself being convinced not to use one by a pushy and irresponsible man you think it is fine to then place further burden on her reproduction rights the next day when she awakens and regrets her decision? Why may I ask do you feel granting women the opportunity to have a second chance at preventing an unwanted pregnancy is a negative in your world?
I don't follow or accept this argument as I feel it is without question a huge advantage to women. This is a means of birth control that is not reliant on a man accepting it's practice and implementing it's use, it is not something a woman must seek doctor's permission to use and it is a form of birth control that in fact gives us one more opportunity to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. That is why we call it pro-choice, and the more opportunities and choices women are afforded, the better.

QUOTE(AMlord)
My argument is that if a 200% dose of birth control is safe and is now OTC, why not half the dose? Certainly regular birth control has a track record that warrants OTC status if this use of the same drug does.


I wish birth control pills were otc, but I suppose the manner in which they are used the medical profession feels justifies oversight, as they too carry risk. My sister has been on the pill for 20 yrs.

QUOTE(AMlord)
Bucket, I feel your anger at my male opinion. But reality is different than what you present it to be. Unwanted pregnancies occur mainly in young people who are irresponsible. This will add to their irresponsibility.

I don't believe this argument personally as I feel this form of birth control necessitates responsible behavior as well. It is only effective up to 72 hours. I would imagine, and having been a female all my life, that women and girls who engage in sex without any concern or maturity towards the need for birth control to begin with are unlikely to change their behavior the next day.

QUOTE(AMlord)
And yes, I do believe that the risk of pregnancy is the biggest deterrent to unprotected sex, even greater than STD and AIDS. The other factors you cite are actually prone to increase unprotected sex (needs, enjoyment, pleasure, love, trust).


I was speaking about the sexual behavior and identity of women as a whole, and yes love, enjoyment, pleasure all are a part of this as well as pregnancy, disease, violence etc. And what evidence do you have that says trust and love increase unwanted pregnancies?

Again I doubt this drug will change the behavior of the truly irresponsible, but will afford all women, those who in fact do concern themselves with their family planning and those who do not, more choices. I am not in favor of judging all women on the behalf of a few and then legally dictating their rights and means to prevent pregnancy on this judgement. I think this drug's use and effectiveness dictates it's high availability and easy access. I don't really concern myself with the behavior of it's users as much as you do, I just want it to be available, as it was intended, for anyone and everyone (sluts, whores or schoolteachers) to use
vsrenard
Did the FDA make the right decision? If not, should Plan B be removed from the market, made available by prescription only, or should it be made available over-the-counter regardless of age?

Yes, as far as it goes. I wish there were a way to make physician followup mandatory but that's not going to happen. I don't think it should be made available OTC for under 18 in the same way many potent drugs are not available OTC for that crowd.

Will the availability of Plan B lead to "a false sense of security," causing women to have unprotected sex? Will it result in a significant drop in the number of unwanted pregnancies? Will it lead to a drop in the number of abortions?

Doubt it. Those who are going to be conscious about it will and those who won't, won't. I don't think this is going to have much effect on gross statistics one way or the other, just may impact the individual case here or there.

For those who complain that this will increase the incidence of women having unprotected sex, I'm curious--what are your thoughts on the avilability of Viagra?
VDemosthenes
QUOTE(Victoria Silverwolf @ Aug 25 2006, 02:58 AM) *

Did the FDA make the right decision? If not, should Plan B be removed from the market, made available by prescription only, or should it be made available over-the-counter regardless of age?

Will the availability of Plan B lead to "a false sense of security," causing women to have unprotected sex? Will it result in a significant drop in the number of unwanted pregnancies? Will it lead to a drop in the number of abortions? [/b]


1.) Of course they made the right choice. The counter-argument that this is a minor abortion just doesn't hold much water with me because to qualify as life, the cells must be in a semi-chosive stage of development with something that resembles a fetus. One morning after will do no cosmic ethical damage in my opinion. The attempt of some activists to say that it would be best to have a prescription opens the whole can of worms about privacy and personal freedoms, etc. which I am not exactly an expert on but would have to agree with in saying that prescription only will only slow the process and could force some young women to actually consider abortion (my timetables could be way off, I'll admit).

2.) I do not think so. That kind of snowballing effect would make me sad to be an American. If women (or some men) see the Plan B pill as anything other than a preventative, then there would be serious issues but I like to vest a little more faith in the common sense of the public.

I can imagine no serious decline in the number though it's nice to think about.

This is a tough one. Women may be a little more aware now that the pill is available over the counter and it could go either way really (though I am not saying it's her entire responsibility at all).
Dadzilla
Did the FDA make the right decision? If not, should Plan B be removed from the market, made available by prescription only, or should it be made available over-the-counter regardless of age?

I believe this decision is close to right... but a slightly lower age limit would have been better. There is a reluctance by some to believe their "little angels" are having sex. Plan B has been in use in other countries since 1999, unless someone cares to argue American plumbing is different it's possible health risks are well documented.

Will the availability of Plan B lead to "a false sense of security," causing women to have unprotected sex? Will it result in a significant drop in the number of unwanted pregnancies? Will it lead to a drop in the number of abortions?

Plan B was never meant as a regular contraceptive. However its rather impressive if the claim of 89% reduction in risk of pregnancy is accurate. If made available (and I can see that fight coming) it should lead to a small drop in abortion, making it is well worth it's existence in my view.
Cynnie

QUESTIONS:
QUOTE
Did the FDA make the right decision? If not, should Plan B be removed from the market, made available by prescription only, or should it be made available over-the-counter regardless of age?

Will the availability of Plan B lead to "a false sense of security," causing women to have unprotected sex? Will it result in a significant drop in the number of unwanted pregnancies? Will it lead to a drop in the number of abortions?


In the Netherlands the morning-after-pill is OTC available since January 2005. If you are 21 years old or younger, the Health Insurance will repay the bill, on condition that the morning-after-pill was prescribed by a doctor and the pill was purchased at a pharmacy. Without a prescription and above the age of 21 the pill costs EUR 12, about $ 15,40. If you are younger than 16 you need approval of your parrents to get the morning-after-pill.

From England, France and Belgium -where the morning-after-pill is available without a prescription for a longer period of time- we know that:
  • taking the morning-after-pill has no complications (besides possible nausea),
  • the amount of abortions and unwanted pregnancy has decreased,
  • of every 80 sold pills 1 unplanned pregnancy was counteracted and
  • the presence of the morning-after-pill in the "home-pharmacy" has not caused using less reliable methods of anticonception.
Dutch source: http://www.anticonceptie-online.nl

The "common" anticonception pill is not OTC available in Holland because of the (small) medical side effects and because your doctor and pharmacist then know you're taking the pill, which can be important when your doctor prescribes other medicine which can cause a contra-indication.

I believe that extensive education is crucial. People need to know that the morning-after-pill should only be used after destitution, not as common anticonception. When one knows when and why the morning-after-pill should be taken, I believe one uses the morning-after-pill in a appropriate way (some foolish people not included). I cannot believe -and I think it shows lack of respect if you do- that women will go mess around without other prophylactics when they can buy a $15 costing morning-after-pill OTC. Unplanned pregnancy is (like other posters already said) not the only reason we use anticonception. Everyone should take care and responsibility of their own (and their partner's) health and welfare. And young women and men should be taught that sex is an expression of love and should only take place when both want it and with using (at least) a condom. A young woman who uses sex for obtaining "love" or as some sort of cement, should learn to resect herself and her body. That's something she should be taught as a rule of life. Young men also have to learn to respect a girl's body and mind. It's a parent's responsibility that young people learn to respect themselves and each other I believe.

EDIT: Removed profanity filter bypass attempt. -AMLord
bucket
Interesting event to happen in regards to this topic ...

Vt. differs from feds on Plan B for minors

Vermont minors will continue to be able to get the emergency contraceptive Plan B without a prescription, despite a Food and Drug Administration ruling to the contrary, a Planned Parenthood executive said Friday.

Nancy Mosher, president and chief executive of Planned Parenthood of Northern New England, said Vermont legislation passed this year set up a third track for acquiring the drug, aside from getting a doctor's prescription or purchasing medicine over the counter.

The bill set up a "collaborative practice" process allowing pharmacists who receive special training to dispense Plan B to women without a prescription. Physicians would issue the pharmacists "standing orders" allowing them to dispense the medication to women who fill out a health screening questionnaire.
Cynnie
QUOTE
EDIT: Removed profanity filter bypass attempt. -AMLord

I apologize AMLord... blush.gif
This is a simplified version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2008 Invision Power Services, Inc.